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Azir and Xerath Story Discussion

RiotRiotJaredan·10/18/2014, 12:34:39 AM·69 votes·76,036 views

Hey all,

As a member of the Narrative discipline that works on ideation & story, I’d like to follow up with you about where we currently are with champ bios and backgrounds.

Previously, we've communicated two main ways in which the presentation of champ backgrounds is changing: format & location. A while back we started moving away from the older style of 'historical' bios in favor of character stories (think Braum & Gnar), but we've found that issues like character limits and formatting constraints are preventing us from really pushing things further in the in-client lore tabs. Given that the lore tab is also intended to give players a quick feel for a champ's thematic and identity, we've decided to morph it into more of an introductory space that links to deeper story experiences on the website's champ info pages.

That said, we’re frankly behind on all of this. We recently released in-client champion intros for Shurima champions without having their deeper story pieces ready to go. We know this is frustrating and we’re working to get them all out as soon as possible.

Additionally, as I mentioned last week, we've run into some tech issues preventing us from de-linking the champ info pages from the lore tabs. We hope to have this fixed very shortly, but for now we're actually unable to deliver completed stories in the way we've promised.

Because of this, we’ve taken the interim step of stickying the new Azir and Xerath short stories on this board. We hope you enjoy them, and deeply appreciate your continuing patience as we work to bring you the stories you want and deserve.

I’ll be hanging out in this thread for a bit, so feel to leave any questions you may have and I'll do my best to address them.

Azir

Xerath

246 Comments

LordHippoman10/18/2014, 12:45:09 AM31 votes

This is awesome. Can't wait to read the stories as well. Hopefully this does something to stem the tide of "Narrative Team Never Listens" threads.

Say, Jaredan, I do have a few questions, if it's okay:

  1. Skarner's been moved to Shurima. Do the rest of the Brackern still exist, or is he the only one of his kind?
  2. Can we still consider the Ionia-Noxus war and the Kalamanda incident detailed in the JoJ canon, even without the League's involvement? Or is that still kind of being decided internally? Reborn points to "yes", at least with Kalamanda, because Swain is Grand General, but an official response would definitely calm some nerves.
Siachi10/18/2014, 1:21:09 AM29 votes

Well, I can say I personally liked both of the stories! I'm not good at giving an in-depth response, but I could feel and sympathize with their emotions in their respective pieces.

I do have to say, however, that it seems like Xerath in this incarnation is a bit of a far cry from "Mage who wanted to discover the limits and secrets of magic at the expense of everything", that I understood him to be. At the same time, I feel like this new story does put him in a much better light than 'Evil Vizier what betrays his emperor for power' that people worried about him becoming.

He has a rather sympathetic goal and desire (his own freedom, promised to him by Azir when they were children), but when Azir finally does fulfill his promise, it's too late to stop what he's set in motion. While I wouldn't expect present-day Xerath to really care or acknowledge his past anymore, it does make me think what his first few years inside the tomb were like.

It also implies that Shurima might not have been the great, majestic, pinnacle-of-all-history empire that Azir sees it as, which is interesting (Granted, Xerath could just be a bitter unreliable narrator at this point).

DrCyanide10/18/2014, 7:19:17 AM18 votes

First off, before I share my thoughts and criticism, I want to make it clear that I like having these new articles.

Secondly, can the in client lore sections be expanded even a little? Right now they're so sort they wouldn't draw anyone into looking for more lore on the website.

Azir

I think anyone who's played Azir in game is eternally grateful that the audio team added a slider for champion voices, as it's the only way to get him to shut up about Shurima. For better or worse, Azir's lore stays true to that.

I was a bit hopeful that his lore would add some depth to an otherwise broken record champion, but was disappointed. We learned a little bit about the extend of his sand shadows, but I feel like a great opportunity to actually make people sympathize or feel pity for him was missed.

Yes, Azir rushes to the top of the stairs. Yes, he falls to his knees at the sight of his family. Yes, he wishes he could cry. But in the end, the reaction here is about on par with his reaction for any other citizen. Azir didn't try to touch, hug, or even say the name of any of his family members. His reaction with them felt impersonal compared to what it should have been. In the end, he's still a broken record to me.

This lore gave us "Ascended beings have a really good sense of where people are or if people are" and little else. As someone else pointed out, it's very nice to see that Sivir left. I honestly don't want her having anything to do with Azir because of how flat he feels. It seems like any cooperation between Azir and Sivir will only serve to flatten Sivir's character.

Xerath

Who is this Xerath character? I find it a little odd that he shares the same name as one of the Champions in League of Legends, since the two are nothing alike. Must just be a common Shuriman name I guess.

I liked Xerath's lore a lot more than Azir's lore. It was personal. It gave us details about Shurima's people, their culture, their beliefs, their government, ascended beings and more. That said, this is not the same Xerath that is in the game.

Xerath in game is always talking about power. "I will show you true power" and "I need more!" are some of the lines that instantly comes to mind. The entire Ascended game mode was about how you needed to take power for yourself.

Xerath in this lore seems to be a magus in title only. There's no reference in this lore to him using magic. There's no reference for him wanting power or knowledge. In fact, he is described as already having sufficient knowledge and power to bring about his goals. These pursuits seem of no interest to him, only the pursuit of freedom is worth anything and everything.

If this was the same Xerath that was in the game, we would see him itching to get out of the sarcophagus that is bound around him.

I'm happy to read something on the lore, but it feels like these back stories need a bit more polish before they're finalized.

P.S. this was all written on my phone late at night. Sorry for typos or auto correct errors.

Shaserra10/18/2014, 1:15:53 AM16 votes

So based on what we now know of Xerath, why exactly is he painted as a villain in the game when the natural continuation of his arc feels as though it should instead revolve around his grief and regret over killing so many for nothing and stealing a power which was ultimately worthless to him? Shouldn't his time imprisoned, particularly in the company of a noble hero like Renekton, have given him the time to reflect and become something other than a figure who uses his power to "utterly destroy those who stand against him"?

TerraRising10/18/2014, 4:22:49 AM14 votes

I'm probably too late for a response, but I'll chime in with some opinions.

  1. In response to this quote:

That said, we’re frankly behind on all of this. We recently released in-client champion intros for Shurima champions without having their deeper story pieces ready to go. We know this is frustrating and we’re working to get them all out as soon as possible.

From what I'm understanding, it wasn't just the website/database tech that was keeping the full stories from reaching the champ pages but that the stories still aren't ready? Forgive the cynicism, but what the hell have you guys been doing?

There are nine champs now directly tied to Shurima: Amumu, Ezreal, Nasus, Rammus, Renekton, Sivir, Skarner, Xerath and Azir. Add to that the eight champs from the Shadow Isles: Yorick, Evelynn, Mordekaiser, Maokai (who is on his third retcon), Elise, Hecarim, Thresh, Karthus (who just got a lore update). Of those seventeen champions, how many of those longer bios are currently ready for our consumption right now? Also, how long is this cycle going to continue, where we're shortening stories three areas ahead of when the full stories are ready to be released?

Sorry... You're trying, but a creative writing teacher would give you guys the same sort of flack for being well past an expected deadline. Again, thanks for the update. I sincerely appreciate the fact that you're being honest about your team's tardiness.

  1. About Azir

• It's a good thing this directly follows the cinematic. That story really should have been the end of that cinematic, though. • It's good to see Sivir away from Azir. She really doesn't need to be Queen Shurima at the moment. • I'm curious as to what the sands around the temple are actually showing him: Whether it's the actual truth or if it's what Azir wants to see. Emperors and great leaders have a tendency to see and hear what they want to rather than what is actually there. • Just who the hell is Sivir descended from? If all of Shurima died during the "Xerath Incident" except for Nasus and Renekton, who is Sivir descended from? (I suspect this question will never be answered because... aliens).

  1. About Xerath

• What part of Xerath's story was actually changed based on our input? Was he really going to be a bland, generic clone of Jafar from Aladdin and we just figured it out immediately after that preview was released on Facebook? (I'm guessing that greed had something to do with Xerath's original actions, given all the melodramatic lines during the Ascension game.) • Regret is a powerful tool in fiction. If Xerath ever gets a voice rework, there should be some lines directed toward Azir that reflects his regret. • Side question: In the face of this new story, how does Renekton actually go crazy after being trapped with Xerath all those years?

**Note: ** It's funny how Xerath's story echoes our own history with Narrative: We "rescue" the lore by giving it our all-out support, then we were promised many things which were never delivered on, treated with silence and contempt for years only to have a long awaited promise of communication delivered at a grand moment only to have it sabotaged by some stupid movie quote and more silence.

PHoToS99910/18/2014, 4:17:07 AM13 votes

There's something really bugging me about this new lore in that it simply doesn't match up with who Xerath is. Not just his personality, but his form. Ascension is not about "what do you want to be," it's about becoming a noble and eternal guardian, who is set apart from humans by their form and power. As well, their form appears to be dictated by the kind of people they are.

However, this new Xerath is not a seeker of power. His modus operandum is not power. It's not even known if he even knows anything about magic. In fact, this sounds more like a story about Swain than Xerath. However, this new Xerath has been consumed by the desire to be a free man, and while it could be argued that by being turned into a being of pure power is about freeing as free gets, the lore is very lacking in why Xerath is what he is.

Because at the moment, ascending is a do X, Y happens process, and when Xerath does it, he does X and something totally random happens. So is the "why is xerath a sparkplug" question going to be answered? Because if not, I for one will be very disappointed.

Also, the Renekton lore now makes no sense. Unless he was completely powerless against Xerath for all that time, I don't see how Renekton would come out changed into a deranged killer, but Xerath would be all peachy keen.

Toa of Death10/18/2014, 1:12:34 AM13 votes

Did Xerath show sadness in the end? It sounds like all he wanted was freedom and to do that he thought he had betray Azir. But right when he was about to strike, Azir decides to free everyone but Xerath's plan was already in motion. When he said sorry at the end, did he mean it?

Keapora10/18/2014, 2:17:21 AM13 votes

Loved the Azir story -- it suits him and it was well-written and gives him a much-needed degree of seriousness regarding his betrayal and death.

I could not be more disappointed with the Xerath story. The writing was beautiful, well-done, honestly! The story is so degrading and insulting to the character Xerath was previously. He was once an ambitious man. Maybe a little upset with his peers for being jerks, but he did amazing things and was regarded as the most intelligent and talented magus in Shurima! This Xerath is vengeful and short-sighted and can't share and emotionally inhibited and completely unforgiving. He's not intelligent anymore. His new slave theme only works with the fact he's now a slave to his own misgivings. He's just a corrupt, angry little boy. He claims he'd be killed for speaking of freedom: would he really face that punishment if he spoke about it with the man who considers him a savior? Who **promised **him that freedom? It's not logical. And Xerath used to be intelligent enough to see that logic. Even cold Xerath had someone he loved before. This guy has nothing. Just hate. Even from his own perspective story. That's not the intelligence we're supposed to believe he has, not what's reflected in his character's words. He's been rendered flat, 2Dimensional. That's no fault of the writing (again, it was beautiful, please do more), it's just the new emptiness of his character.

I really hope we see more of these stories in general, but I really hope Xerath is continued to be worked on and refined. I want to see him as a 3D character again.

Felaeris10/19/2014, 7:31:02 PM11 votes

Read the Azir bit. It had its high points. There's a lot of detail and backstory put into the process of Azir waking from his not-quite-so-eternal rest and processing the events that had unfolded surrounding the fall of Shurima.

Then I read the Xerath section... ... ...

Remember that time when Jayce came out and in that short little paragraph he was designed, specifically, to be a bold protagonist that fought against Dr. Claw-----I mean Viktor thereby saving piltover with his mighty hammer. Except paying customers, the fans of League, were actually very fond of Viktor's lore as a tragic transhumanist who sought to perfect himself through machinery and who had all the credit for his research stolen by a Zaun scientist to include creation of Blitzcrank . Oh that's right, the fans were outraged and the lore article had to be changed within that same week or two.

Funny how history is repeating itself.

Transhumanist character seeks to better himself and his society through the pursuit of knowledge is now portrayed as a direct antagonist to make a newer champion look better. I'm not happy. The concept of 'Ascension' and the way it is tossed around cheapens the process involved considerably. Emperor ascends stairs. Stands before an altar. And gets gifted with super powers. Oh? What's that? A downtrodden individual can't have X and now wants to take it for himself? This is so painfully cliche. I expect better.** I expect to see writing of the same quality and care as the league judgments of old.**

This is what I did like. Xerath had a unique backstory and a means to approach his end. He wanted to achieve a higher level of magic gained by channeling arcane might through himself rather than shaping the energy into common spells. He had moments of weakness that made him human, sympathetic, and relatable to include his fatigue, his quest for knowledge, the temptation to abandon his hard work in favor of a normal life, and the loss of his beloved that forced him to continue his ritual or risk annihilation. His fallout with morality and mortality are understood concepts that resulted from the death of the one he cared about as well as being so far removed from his humanity.

All of that has been removed. I'm left with "I'm a bitter slave that was promised freedom and never got it. Now I'm going to royally screw you. Oh... you freed me? And all the slaves? Well damn. Too late I guess. Guess I'll just ace team Shurima and stand on the pedestal myself since civilization as we know it is going to be destroyed anyways. Allwell. Nothing I can do to stop it. Shit happens, right? Wow. Ascension and superpowers are awesome. Guess I'll act like a dick without remorse just because I can." ... really? That's the backstory we're reduced to? Or even worse, that he turns to whining and apologizing as a character interaction whenever Azir is around. Ugh. Sad times.

Please, Rito, don't try to shoehorn two characters together just because.

Legacy of Xion10/18/2014, 12:49:10 AM9 votes

What are you plans for Kayle?

Are you going to please stop disappearing for weeks without a word?

And finally, when will we see more lore towards the independant characters of Runeterra, like Rengar and Gnar and Nidalee?

DarkerGrey10/18/2014, 3:19:17 AM8 votes

Yes, Riot! This is the kind of things your community likes! These two stories, no matter how short or simple, are a step in the right direction.

A glimpse into the mind of a person is more interesting than a random event involving random champions. IMO the lore should be something that you actually get out of your way to read instead of the two lines of text in the client. I hope we eventually get more stories involving more champions.

Now, if you could find a way to stop having tech problems on every single update, that'd be great. Who's leading this kind of stuff? Gnar?

MrBuffington10/18/2014, 12:53:42 AM6 votes

[Spoiler on the Azir piece]

Just got back from reading the both of them, I'm really interested in seeing this story taken a more linear approach (ie. a continuation)

One question I had was about Sivir; if Azir's family was killed in the fall of Shurima, who did Sivir descend from?

GenoXx10/18/2014, 12:49:52 AM5 votes

Will you actually show us, instead of not showing and making us wait a little more months??As in this current month..... That is the question I have... Or Will we wait more?

Ironclad Dragon10/18/2014, 1:46:45 AM3 votes

If Azir emancipated Xerath, why did Xerath kill him? Was it already planned, or did he not want to take a risk of having Azir ascend and becoming a monster?

Ethereal bb10/18/2014, 12:51:17 AM3 votes

new sivir lore pleeeeeeeaaaaaase <333 Sivir