Could a Darkin and its host possibly live in symbiosis of each other?

IBBE L33TZ·Jul 23, 2018·9 votes·3,879 views

We already know that Darkins such as Rhaast can inhabit the bodies of their wielders without totally consuming them, but is there a possibility that the Darkins could do so without consuming the bodies altogether?

We also know that Varus struggles to wrest control over the two human souls he is forced to share a body with. This suggests that the control over the body is something that doesn't necessarily have to come by force. In that case, what if Darkins and their hosts could get along with each other and actually try to live in one body peacefully? Is it a possibility at all, or is one destined to always overtake the other?

If a Darkin's purpose would align with that of its host, would they not possibly be able to get along with each other and even find more of a purpose? The Darkin would no longer have to suffer in solitude and darkness, as it would always watch through the eyes of its host. The host would become empowered beyond their original capabilites. The Darkin and the host would also be accompanying each other, thus never truly being alone in the world.

25 Comments

The WhamboozlerJul 24, 20187 votes

No.

Allow me to explain. It would be a REALLY bad idea from a narrative standpoint to introduce this idea. If it IS possible for a Darkin and a host to co-exist all nice and cuddly together, that would be cripplingly bad for the lore and story. It would ruin the idea of the Darkin as flawed, tragic monsters driven to insanity and evil by what they endured fighting the void if one of them just kinda.... got over it and decided to be nice. It's like "Hey Aatrox? You'd stop suffering if you just hugged it out with your hosts man." It downplays the curse they all suffer AND how powerful it and they are if someone can overcome it and just kinda... exist.

Take for example... Kai'sai. A LOT of people felt (myself included) that her story and lore REALLY diminished the void as dangerous and threatening. After all... Before Kai'sa the void was a horrible, alien realm that rendered everyone and everything that came in contact with it corrupt, insane or both. A POSSIBLE exception was Kassadin, but the dude is VERY obviously inhuman and his exposure to the void has clearly affected him very deeply.

Then Kai'sa saunters into the void and back out again and it turns out all those other people who went mad from sniffing the void's farts just didn't want to be sane enough. That fishman from the Nami comic? Malzahar. Kassadin. All the darkin, ironically... since the void was what drove them nuts. Didn't ya know all you need to do to be okay is just stab a void monster and wear it as pants and you'll be 110% mentally stable and okay? Even if it's just that no one thought to wear a voidling as a hat before, it still REALLY diminishes the whole thing to know that Aatrox, Rhaast and all that darkin nonsense could have been prevented if anyone had just made some void beast boxer shorts and handed them out to everyone. And if the suit that spared Kai'sa her sanity and prevented her from mutating is just like.... super-ultra rare and unheard of before then it doesn't fix the problem... it just makes the void look weaker and Kai'sa seem like she got an EXTREMELY lucky deus ex machina dropped in her lap. This even makes HER seem shittier, since now instead of coming off as a plucky survivor that went through something VERY close to literal hell and survived... she seems like someone who just got handed a lucky plot device so that the writers could have her stay all pretty. (That is ACTUALLY why Kai'sa looks like she does to be fair.)

So anywho... whether or not this is a possibility in the universe of the game it should NEVER happen. It further downplays what is supposed to be a huge, important plot point that many, MANY parts of the lore are built around. This is not to say that Riot will avoid doing it though... they've pretty regularly made some god-AWFUL narrative choices when writing lore and stories for the game and it's characters... and they've already kneecapped the seriousness and crfedibility of most of the things that were supposed to be massive, overwhelming forces or threats to the world or it's characters... so who fucking knows anymore?

Warlord RhinarkJul 23, 20184 votes

It's an interesting thought, but I don't think any of the Darkin would be willing to share the body with anyone, especially considering their history of being overlords with thousands of slaves.

Vlada CutJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=A0rtVG7P,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-23T10:23:23.033+0000)

It's an interesting thought, but I don't think any of the Darkin would be willing to share their bodies with anyone, especially considering their history of being overlords with thousands of slaves.

No, they wouldn't be able to share their bodies because they are gone. The remaining darkins only have their hearts and weapons left. Except Rhaast has an eye for no reason at all.

Warlord RhinarkJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, they wouldn't be able to share their bodies because they are gone. The remaining darkins only have their hearts and weapons left. Except Rhaast has an eye for no reason at all.

I meant the human's body.

Sorry.

Will edit.

Vlada CutJul 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=A0rtVG7P,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-07-23T13:01:19.360+0000)

I meant the human's body.

Sorry.

Will edit.

Ah, okay. No problem.

CaptainAntiHerozJul 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No, they wouldn't be able to share their bodies because they are gone. The remaining darkins only have their hearts and weapons left. Except Rhaast has an eye for no reason at all.

Rhaast is edgy that's why

Vlada CutJul 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Rhaast is edgy that's why

Rhaaat's persona is edgy. An eye is rounded. [sg-lux-2]

CaptainAntiHerozJul 25, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Rhaaat's persona is edgy. An eye is rounded. [sg-lux-2]

But to improve the edge they made him glare at everything

Pika FoxJul 23, 20182 votes

Given rhaast doesnt have immediate control, id wager it is possible for a darkin and a human to exist somewhat together. Assuming kayn is canon, we know that some can resist a darkin to reach some kind of balance, potentially even overcoming said darkin. Its possible one could have a permanent kayne-rhaast relationship where neither can fully overtake the other.

LoborcsJul 23, 20181 votes

I suppose that's possible. But with only 5 darkins out there which is the chance? 1 in a million? The host should be strong of body and mind also.

I have being thinking for a while... Is necessary for the host being a human? We know there are other species out there that are phisically stronger than humans like most of the vastayans. What happens when a vastaya wields a darkin?

Lady FacelessJul 23, 20181 votes

I actually asked Odin a similar question if Vastayan could wield a Darkin weapon. Theoretically it is possible.

So actually this is a super complicated question because it relates to how the magics and planes of existence interact. I think it is possible with a Vastaya... BUT the answer to this would require a lot of thought and world building meetings to clarify.

MOLTinaTORJul 23, 20181 votes

That would be interesting ngl. Highly unlikely since Darkins despise humans.

Vlada CutJul 23, 20181 votes

No. They just parasyte your mind and body until you give up. It can be instant, like with Aatrox, or long corossive corruotion like Kayn and Rhaast. Varus is just a typical flesh wielder who molded two bodies into one. Aatrox? Can do so much more...that's why he can grow giantic in size if he wants to. Blood magic sure is a thing huh.

IBBE L33TZJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

No. They just parasyte your mind and bidy untik you give up. It can be instant, like with Aatrox, or long corossive corruotion like Kayn and Rhaast.

But the Darkin you have taken as examples are clearly ones that want to wrest control entirely. We don't know if all Darkin are actually like this. What if there is a Darkin out there who is willing to exist in symbiosis with a mortal in order to escape the hellish prison they were given by the Aspects? Additionally, I believe that the corruption itself can be halted if a Darkin wills it.

Varus is just a typical flesh wielder who molded two bodies into one.

He also struggles to control the body because he has two other souls inside that want to take control back. Based on the lore, he has also evidently lost control once, which could indicate that his control is not permanent and could be shared.

Aatrox? Can do so much more...that's why he can grow giantic in size if he wants to. Blood magic sure is a thing huh.

Aatrox is a Darkin who is completely hellbent on destroying the whole universe. The lore also seems to indicate that he is too far gone to see reason anyway, which defeats the purpose of sharing a body with a mortal anyway. Additionally, he seems too powerful to share a body with any existing mortal.

In conclusion, I believe that a Darkin and a mortal with the same goals and purposes can indeed live in symbiosis, seeing how it would benefit them both in the long run.

Vlada CutJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But the Darkin you have taken as examples are clearly ones that want to wrest control entirely. We don't know if all Darkin are actually like this. What if there is a Darkin out there who is willing to exist in symbiosis with a mortal in order to escape the hellish prison they were given by the Aspects? Additionally, I believe that the corruption itself can be halted if a Darkin wills it.

He also struggles to control the body because he has two other souls inside that want to take control back. Based on the lore, he has also evidently lost control once, which could indicate that his control is not permanent and could be shared.

Aatrox is a Darkin who is completely hellbent on destroying the whole universe. The lore also seems to indicate that he is too far gone to see reason anyway, which defeats the purpose of sharing a body with a mortal anyway. Additionally, he seems too powerful to share a body with any existing mortal.

In conclusion, I believe that a Darkin and a mortal with the same goals and purposes can indeed live in symbiosis, seeing how it would benefit them both in the long run.

Yes, but that's also a problem - no darkin would be willing to share a body with a human desoite theirngoals aligning, they would simply use humans as their vessels amd treat them like one.

AnAggravatedPimpJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but that's also a problem - no darkin would be willing to share a body with a human desoite theirngoals aligning, they would simply use humans as their vessels amd treat them like one.

What about Ta'anari? He was rendered mortal/human but Myisha still took his heart. Could he, in a weakened state, be slowly enhance the abilities of Sivir as a way to combat the resurrected Darkin and in such a way that he doesn't burn her out? Also I'm assuming he would love to help her/keep her alive as she is an ancestor of Azir.

Vlada CutJul 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

What about Ta'anari? He was rendered mortal/human but Myisha still took his heart. Could he, in a weakened state, be slowly enhance the abilities of Sivir as a way to combat the resurrected Darkin and in such a way that he doesn't burn her out? Also I'm assuming he would love to help her/keep her alive as she is an ancestor of Azir.

No. Because the power of the moon neutralizes all the powers the sun gives. It was a miracle how Ta'anari survived it only without eyes. However Myisha killed him so he doesn't count, I doubt he was one if the remaining 5 who were sealed away either, comsidering two got away from the moonray but were weakened and Varus' sister. But wouldn't that make 6 of them then? Is 5 even rellevant anymore? If it isn't, then I'd love to see Ta'amari making a comeback and fight Aatrox.

Lady FacelessJul 23, 20181 votes

As long we don't have any source which confirm or deny it, we can only guess. Overall, I think a Darkin could live in a symbotic relationship if they want to, but they have to be careful not to burn their wielder. Darkins are so much more powerful when a human and in the end the power level never could be equal between the human and the Darkin. In the end the body belongs to the human, but Darkin are so more powerful, they could force their will on the human. What about the physical appearance? Would the human allow his body to be altered? However, these kind of transformation can't keep the body for forever, Dinopawz comfirmed that the body would wear down 'cause of it.

While I really like the thought of symbiotic Darkin, I think in the end it couldn't work out 'cause of the difference between the power level of human and a darkin is simple to big to work out.

A Superb VillainJul 23, 20181 votes

Only if they don't lose their way.

The EcdysiastJul 23, 20181 votes

Possibly.

The Darkin are all controlling non-magic humans. Kayn's shadow "art" is a martial art skill, not a form of magic.

A mentally powerful mage may be able to live in cohesion with the Darkin, but that raises the question of whether the Darkin could inhabit them at all.

The best option might be someone with incredible regenerative ability but a weak mind, such as Mundo or Warwick. But then, sharing the Darkin's mind with one that hardly thinks wouldn't really mean much.

HalfTangibleJul 24, 20182 votes

Magical martial arts are still magical.

We get descriptions of shadow walk and his infestation move from Kayn's color story. So we know that the in-game representation in this case isn't a metaphor. He LITERALLY walks into the shadows. And his infest is DEFINITELY magical.

The EcdysiastJul 24, 20181 votes

Not true. The story and game go to lengths to make martial arts distinct from magic. Zed does also literally make shadow clones of himself to attack. They are not mere illusions.

Likewise, Kayn's shadow-step is also a technique. It may not be one actually possible through human martial arts, but neither is arcing lightning or shadow cloning. The point that his Umbral Trespass is "definitely" magic is subsequently also false. It uses essentially the same technique. A person is a solid object, just like a wall. Walking into someone if you can walk into walls isn't far-fetched.

While yes, you could have the opinion that martial arts appear "magical", they do not function via magic the way it's depicted in the League of Legends lore.

HalfTangibleJul 24, 20181 votes

No, the lore goes to great lengths to show that Ionia is absolutely saturated with magic, meaning that most everything they do is magical to an extent. I could buy that this is just a technique if we were talking about Master Yi or even Lee Sin (at least before he was retconned to have a dragon spirit granting him power), but Kayn's technique is explicitly magical in nature.

The idea that arcing lightning and shadow cloning are not magic when BOTH of the characters you're referring to have magic (Zed had that box with the shadow technique, Kennen is a Yordle) is ludicrous.

"It uses essentially the same technique."

It uses an explicitly magical technique.

"Walking into someone if you can walk into walls isn't far-fetched."

I never said it was far-fetched, I said it was MAGICAL. And it is.

The EcdysiastJul 24, 20181 votes

You're misunderstanding the difference, and that's okay. I can't explain to you what you refuse to see.

HalfTangibleJul 24, 20181 votes

The difference between the two is not relevant to the discussion. "Magical martial arts are still magical" was the first thing I said.

If the only way I can "understand" your argument is to first CONCEDE the argument, then frankly, your argument is terrible.

"I can't explain to you what you refuse to see." That's a funny way to say "I'm too passive-aggressive and lazy to explain my own point".

Also if it's a misunderstanding, then by definition I'm not "refusing to see it".