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Increasingly Frustrated With How Much We Don't Know

Rolling Girl·5/31/2018, 4:28:14 PM·12 votes·11,279 views

I think Runeterra is pretty cool. The narrative team has obviously put tons of effort into fleshing out all of these places, cultures, and characters, and it shows. But it's beginning to get frustrating how little of this information is player-facing, and how buried away a lot of it is.

When Pyke came to the PBE, there were a ton of interesting things I heard in his VO. What is this swimming city? What is the power or being that brought him back to (un)life? His bio and short story proceeded to not answer either of these questions. Is the swimming city some kind of literal place under the sea? A term akin to Davy Jones' Locker? And this new powerful entity we haven't known about until now? We don't get to hear about any of it! But the writers have shown in the past that even when they don't tell us these things, they do absolutely plan it all out. We just aren't allowed to know for reasons beyond me.

We only have a vague idea of why Jhin started going around killing people because of a Q&A! We know it has something to do with his father's martial arts studio going out of business, and the only time it's mentioned is during a Q&A session shortly after his release! I don't think that's the kind of place players should need to search to learn more about the characters they love.

But the most frustrating of late for me has been Swain. His Bio does mention him usurping the throne of Noxus, taking part in the failed invasion of Ionia (losing an arm in the process) and somehow tricking a demon of secrets, but they are glossed over in a sentence or two each. Should events so incredibly important to Swain as a character AND one of the most prominent nations in the lore really be treated with the same importance as describing Swain brushing his teeth in the morning? Any of these could have made great candidates for his short story or the longer form story introduced alongside Swain. We may get more info about the overthrowing of Noxus trickled to us at a later date but I seriously doubt we'll ever get more information about the demon he made a deal with and tricked through unspecified means. In fact, did you know there's concept art of the demon itself? It's hiding on his Champion Insights page, which brings me back to the last problem.

The reason this is so upsetting for me is that I love a lot of the work the narrative team put in. Of all the short stories, not-so-short stories, little champion stories, etc, I could count on one hand the ones I genuinely didn't enjoy. Whenever we do get a bit of information about one of Runeterra's cultures or what-have-you, it always feels interesting and fleshed out, but for each thing we're told it feels like there's dozens more that just aren't. And often times that feels bad. And the promise of "We'll talk about it and let you in on the secret one day" doesn't really help.

25 Comments

Nylisa6/1/2018, 9:10:36 AM7 votes

Yes. with each update we learn new names, new places and phrases that we know nothing about. there are still things we barely know anything about from 2010 and we propably wont in years. their significense is lost when you have no idea what they are suppose to represent, or if it hold any significent meaning at all. at somepoint it feels like an attempt to make the story more in depth. like the guy at a gathering who make references to stuff no-one knows what they are, just to make himself more interesting, but it just comes off as confusing.

i understand there is a certain art in implanting certain details in story that reader might discover if they are paying attention, but in an enviroment like this, it will probably fail to hold my attention, because i don't want to wait until 2023 for a new champion in bilgewater, so i learn something about pyke and think "ah so this is what it was"

This is exactly the reason, the death of Yasuo's elder meant nothing to me when i finally learned about it. it was like i didnt even care anymore after years of waiting. and i'm starting to feel the same way about so many things in league that are left untouched for many years.

i hope @Scathlocke sees this cause this is a very important feedback for me.

Vlada Cut5/31/2018, 5:26:03 PM3 votes

Speaking of his VO. He has a special interaction with Illaoi. "Your diety has damned me Illaoi" or something similar(I'm sure he says word 'damned').

Regaly6/1/2018, 1:28:17 AM3 votes

I have given up on the Riot narrative team. I think even the Journal of Justice was so much better in telling stories about champions. Now I feel like they are not consistent and never old champ bios or where they left off. This honestly contributes to not caring about the bios/short stories anymore because you just know they will just change it once a new narrative team comes along. So basically if I read a new narrative I don't even take it seriously.

The narrative team probably has a lot of turnover which contributes to this prevailing problem. When I first started this game, the first I wanted to learn was their backstory and why they were important and special (I absolutely loved that whole J4 and LB -but guess what? they never expanded on that or revisited - super lame). It was good back then but obviously not perfect (and needed more). They tried to fix it but I am not completely buying the direction they are going. They keep giving you snippets of a characters event.

On a good note, I particularly liked the Azir story - which was new narrative at the time. The story was great. It talked about his ascension and his relationship to other shurima champs, and at the end it was put all together. It was a legit origin story which explains what Azir's goal is now. With other stories however, like for example Swain (my favorite champ) did not go well. I was waiting to hear a legit origin story and it just came out flat. Same with Kai'sa and others. Bleh. I stopped reading the universe. They need to do one big origin story and clearly defines the champion AND THEN they can pump out short stories. Anyways, I hope they get their act together.

Quiet Dude5/31/2018, 4:34:36 PM3 votes

That’s kind of how stories work, you don’t want to give away too much. Dark souls is counted as some of the best story telling in gaming, but the amount it tells you is near next to nothing.

Not everything can be like an anime plot where everything is revealed immediately and then retold in a thousand flash backs. You need to keep interest, even if it means never revealing things that may be interesting to know

MeilinII6/2/2018, 6:47:50 PM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rolling Girl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=9qBvv0r2,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-31T16:28:14.097+0000)

When Pyke came to the PBE, there were a ton of interesting things I heard in his VO. What is this swimming city?

Ummm.... I kinda assumed this was the thing mentioned in Fizz's bio.... Am I wrong?

IcyPepper5/31/2018, 4:53:17 PM2 votes

But the most frustrating of late for me has been Swain. His Bio does mention him usurping the throne of Noxus, taking part in the failed invasion of Ionia (losing an arm in the process) and somehow tricking a demon of secrets, but they are glossed over in a sentence or two each.

That could be a whole novel tbh

Crow Nebula6/1/2018, 10:27:44 AM2 votes

There are few things I want to love more than the League lore, but I just can't. The biggest problem for me is how little of the lore actually makes sense. Most decisions made by the narrative team seem to be based off of the rule of cool, and the reasoning is too often just "because magic". Why the hell is Nautilus 50 feet tall? Why does Aurelion Sol range from the size of a star system to the size of a jumbo jet? Why does Malphite range from the size of a mountain to the size of an ordinary human? How was Pyke able to come back from the dead? Why was Tryndamere's rage enough to grant him immortality? What does immortality even mean in a world where spirits and afterlives and reincarnation are the norm - a world where genuine death never seems to actually even occur? If the Darkin were so easy to kill that they were wiped out to the last five, why are they then described as immortal, and why did the last five have to remain trapped in weapons instead of being destroyed after the weapons had served their purpose? Why should we fear the Darkin or the Void or the Watchers when all three of these "Big Bads" had their asses handed to them in Runeterran history? The Darkin were trapped inside their weapons, like chumps. The Watchers were pushed off a bridge, like chumps. And we're supposed to believe they're the biggest threats to the world - I mean, seriously?

I could go on and on, but what's the point? All I'll say to the Riot narrative team is, sure, you may have a cult-like following on these boards, but these boards are a tiny fraction of the total player-base. Most League fans don't care about the lore, because it's not been fleshed out enough to make any kind of sense. If you want the League lore to be taken seriously outside of these boards, you have to explain the whys and hows. Start with the fundamentals. Give us canonical sizes for Malphite, Aurelion Sol, etc. Explain mortality in Runeterra - who comes back as a ghost, who gets reincarnated, who receives oblivion, and why? Answer once and for all why the last five Darkin had to be trapped within weapons. Explain why the Freljordians are so terrified of the Watchers despite handily defeating them. Integrate such explanations into the game itself so people don't have to scour the Web just to understand what the hell is going on - loading screens are great opportunities. Above all, try to make sense. And please, try not to explain problems away as "magic".

(PS: ignore upvotes and downvotes on posts. They usually come from the very young, and do not reflect the sentiments of the wider League fanbase.)

Jaspers6/1/2018, 9:08:01 AM2 votes

Narratives in large RPGs can be expansive and very well thought out. I love the Dragon Age world for example, ignoring the story they were trying to force on us in DA:I about Solas the Liar, the whole world they built including a vast history timeline of events up to a year and sometimes day in that year is impressive. DA known history can be found nearly exclusively in the first game as well, with little panels and books telling it. You could then re-read this history in game. Over time with additional games, novels, comics the narrative has expanded hugely, adding new parts but sticking to the same concepts and explanations. The only realy mysteries in it are things that are kept ambiguious for narrative reasons, The Maker, Black/Golden City etc but even then those are explained what they are even if not why they are.

In League, the lore is getting more expansive, more defined as well as it's fleshed out but it's a painfully slow process plus none of it is available in game or even on the client. It's hidden away on a section of this website. There isn't an expanding series of comics or Novels exploring characters personalities and adventures. Most characters have a short bio followed by a story, if they are new (older ones just have a bio). We don't know if many characters have ever actually met (if they ever will), if their timeline is out of sync etc.

We have a lot of unknowns that don't and won't affect gameplay. Why is Diana in Ionia? Will Skarner actually get to Piltover and save the Crystals? Why is Jhin headed there and will Zed and co find him? Will there be a confrontation?

The recent Yas and Riven story is the perfect example. Yasuo's exile and Riven's history were both unexplored narrative and in one well thought out series of short stories they explained it, added character development and yet didn't change the in game characters at all or people's liking (or dislike :-P) of them.

They need more of this. Lots more.