Boards›Story, Art, & Sound

Sion and Swain lore/taunt contradictions?

NA Darklarik··10 votes·15,482 views

Im hoping for a Sion Q&A but until then...

Why is it, that in Sion's lore, He seems to have a deep respect for Swain, calling him "a True Noxian", "My General" "He leads, i follow", to say nothing of the Fact he owes Swain EVERYTHING since it was him who gave him a shot back a glory and revived him... where that ass Boram had just looked him up and made everyone forget he existed...

Yet, in his new VO his Taunts toards swain are.... well, he dosent seem to hold him in High regard, and goes of to blatantly contradict his "lore" Example: (all directed to swainSwain ) You are not my General I am not your pawn Swain... You are WEAK swain, you are no leader!

So, can a Rioter please coment on this? What is the true nature of Swain and Sion's "relationship", on one side his lore sudjests he highly respects and obeys him, on the other side his Quotes sudjest he despises him. Make up your mind Riot, which is it?

35 Comments

RiotRiot Entropy14 votes

A lot of the analysis in this thread is on point. Sion's mind is the most fragile part of him, something which a mastermind like Swain can easily exploit. When Sion **can ** glimpse the truth, he doesn't like what he sees. Fortunately for his manipulators, that clarity is fleeting.

Think of taunts toward an enemy Swain as written to reflect the moments where Sion recognizes the truth.

As for Swain being a counter, well, it's gonna be hard to break that leash.

exec34 votes

Perhaps it would have been better to give him an equal number of positive and negative quotes towards Swain to show how random it can be. Or have taunts be the negative side and jokes be the positive side.

adventcalendar1 votes

So was Sion a bit of a clever clogs in life or does Swain not put much effort into keeping the wool pulled over his eyes or what?

RiotPhreak8 votes

Without knowing very much myself (but am interested) I would hazard a guess that you aren't typically Champion material without being pretty sharp.

Honestly, I wouldn't expect Swain to try that hard to keep Sion in the dark though.

TOTALLY NOT CANON. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD.

ItemsGuy4 votes

What's a Champion, though? I thought the IoW etc. was officially gone, now.

Is there still this arbitrary and universal terminology for the playable characters in League of Legends (even factionless monsters like Brand and Nocturne), or is Sion an actual "champion" in the traditional sense of the word?

Winged Hussars2 votes

I don't think you understand. Sion is literally Swain's champion. Not any weird in-universe terminology.

GenoXx1 votes

"TOTALLY NOT CANON. JUST THINKING OUT LOUD" lol This....leaks some clues....:D

DaedricTerror131 votes

Swains fucking OP, its not like Sions a threat to him.

CupcakeTrap25 votes

Swain "Quickly, LeBlanc! The shiny foil!"

Leblanc "Very well, Grand General! But know that both my supply of aluminum and my patience are finite."

Sion "Oooooooooh."

Swain "Darius, buy her some more foil."

Darius "Draven, buy her some more foil."

Draven "afk"

Darius "Urgot. Foil. LeBlanc. Now."

Urgot "ETERNAL LIFE. ENDLESS SHOPPING. LIMITED OPPORTUNITY FOR PROMOTION."

NA Darklarik1 votes

A lot of the analysis in this thread is on point. Sion's mind is the most fragile part of him, something which a mastermind like Swain can easily exploit. When Sion **can ** glimpse the truth, he doesn't like what he sees. Fortunately for his manipulators, that clarity is fleeting.

Think of taunts toward an enemy Swain as written to reflect the moments where Sion recognizes the truth.

As for Swain being a counter, well, it's gonna be hard to break that leash.

Question, in these "brief" moments of clarity, does he also recognize swain was the one who gave him a second chance? Revived him where his "friend" Boram had locked him up? Does he realise Swain outwitted both Darkwills and is stronger than them?

PhoenixSlayer136 votes

I think you're assuming a couple of things here:

1.) Sion wants to be in his current state. Fact of the matter is that he really doesn't. His new VO lines make it pretty clear that he wants his old self back badly, but the bloodlust is far too strong to overcome. Pretty sure if given the choice between this eternal damnation and death, he would choose death.

2.) Swain is the definition of Noxian. Maybe to current-day Noxus, but probably not Sion's Noxus. Swain is a manipulative, deceitful jackass who's using Sion as a tool. Granted, Boram revived Sion for his own selfish reasons, but he wanted the Sion he knew back, the Sion who was a great warrior and supporter. Instead, the Black Rose gave him a mindless killing machine. Sion doesn't see deceitfulness and backstabbing as power, he sees strength as power. Boram lead Noxus with an iron hand, Swain leads Noxus through lies and deception.

Mirage Night7 votes

So a break down on what I think the New Lore fletches out

  • Sion was under the command of General Darkwill
  • He dies after slaughtering King Jarvan the first
  • Darkwill attempts to use his necromancy to resurrect Sion, but only to resurrect a mindless beast due to something leblanc did during the ritual
  • Sion is locked away until Darkwill is overthrown/killed by Swain
  • Swain attempts to repeat the process using Darkwills old notes, Vladimirs blood magic, and Jarvan the IV blood all in an effort to make Sion more controllable.
  • Though the process somewhat succeeds, Sion's mind is broken, slipping in and out of control as well as mixing present memories with past. He only recognizes Darkwill as his Grand General and Swain no more then a weakling who had to use tricks to get to where he is.
Chromatic Eagle2 votes

I thought the Black Rose raised Sion without Boram? Where does Vladimir fit in? Is he Thorn?

Mirage Night3 votes

If you read all of Rise, swain mentions that Sion was Boram's first attempt of using the dark arts but failed to resurrect his mind. The center mage in the rebirth animated scene is Vladimir.

Chromatic Eagle2 votes

The website makes it hard for me to read the whole thing. Even with the wiki. Haven't watched the video yet. Thought LeBlanc forced the ritual to manipulate Boram.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Was Vlad confirmed or implied? How old is he?

60579290DEL11 votes

[deleted]

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

The first time that chat was released, both fans and the wiki said Petal was Elise. Seems understandable since he mentioned the Shadow Isles.

That video was hard to see and I thought he was sacrificing people not turning into blood.

LordHippoman1 votes

When did Riot confirm he was Petal? I haven't seen it yet.

60579290DEL12 votes

[deleted]

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

So where does Elise fit in? Everyone is saying that Elise, Swain, and Vlad are involved but people keep arguing how.

Jamnon3 votes

Its distracting and contradictory. If he hasn't realized that in the story, why force something that 1) hasn't yet happened? 2) Only lasts as long as he is taunting, and then we are back to the same place in the story where suddenly, Sion respects Swain again?

It feels unnatural as you are trying to have it both ways. At least keep it consistent. There is no reason the taunts cant match the lore or visa versa. It is up to Riot to tell the story, not the player to make the inferences. Sions lore is meant to tell a narrative.

What his taunts suggest are not a part of that narrative, at least not yet. Even if he were feeble-minded and easily manipulated, he would have indecisiveness but then again that would be lame as a taunt.

Which brings us full circle to realizing that if you want this to be part of Sion's story, then WRITE it that way. It is up to RIOT to tell a story, not the players. We shouldn't have to ask a red for clarification. We should be able to read the lore and KNOW the answers to these basic questions.

I get you disagree about keeping the summoners, but can you at LEAST tell a good, consistent story?

Sneak Dog1 votes

What if it'll be consistent once he goes live?

Jamnon1 votes

What if it'll be consistent once he goes live?

What if it won't?

PhoenixSlayer132 votes

I think it's because Sion isn't recognizing Swain as Swain in his lore. Note how he's surprised that Swain is hobbling and assumes that it's from the battle. If he were in his right mind he would have realized that Swain had that hobble all along. He's so damn confused that he thinks Swain is Darkwill, who was the closest thing to a friend he ever had.

Another thing: I don't think Sion is actually all that happy about being raised. A number of lines of his VO involve him trying to regain control over his bloodlust. There's still some of that old Sion in there, the one who was a great warrior instead of a pure killing machine.

NA Darklarik2 votes

I think it's because Sion isn't recognizing Swain as Swain in his lore. Note how he's surprised that Swain is hobbling and assumes that it's from the battle. If he were in his right mind he would have realized that Swain had that hobble all along. He's so damn confused that he thinks Swain is Darkwill, who was the closest thing to a friend he ever had.

Thats great, but at what point did he "come to his senses" and if he did, asumingly, come to his senses, the he should also know:

  1. Boram used and locked him up, basicly dis-honored him.
  2. Swain is responsible for both Darkwill deaths (father and son), so he is stronger than them.
  3. Swain revived him, Sion thus owns him everything.
PhoenixSlayer134 votes

But how long do you think he'll be able to keep those coherent thoughts in his undead head? His mind is completely fractured. He has moments of clarity in battle, but then he ends up devolving back into "KILL KILL KILL." He's an unreliable narrator.

Hullabaloo9071 votes

Never trust a zombie.

LordHippoman2 votes

The game and Lore aren't connected anymore, remember the Dev Blog?

I know, it sucks, but eh.

Although I do like the idea that in his more coherent moments, he knows Swain isn't trustworthy, but when he's in a blood rage it just goes out of his head.

PhoenixSlayer132 votes

The structure of the game isn't. The characters are.

I can understand the frustration, but things need to stop being misunderstood.

NA Darklarik3 votes

The game and Lore aren't connected anymore, remember the Dev Blog?

I know, it sucks, but eh.

Although I do like the idea that in his more coherent moments, he knows Swain isn't trustworthy, but when he's in a blood rage it just goes out of his head.

Not trust worthy? Swain is increadibly trust worthy to those who are loyal and allied to him. DariusDarius is an example of this, he completely trusts swain, and he is no fool or one to allow the weak, he considers Swain stronger than himself (he could have easily contended for the position of Grand General, yet his trust of swain is so deep he chose to straight up trust in his leadership, thats on itself, says a lot about Swain).

Swain REVIVED Sion, Boram crudely re-animated him, chopped him up because he failed and loocked him away, threw away the key and made everyone forget he existed (where talking about the legend that KILLED Jarvan the FIRST).

Swain, He gave him purpose again, glory and the chance for Battle. It seems so out of place that he wouldent trust Swain after all he has done for Sion and who he is, the Grand General who defeated both Darkwills, If Sion is a true noxian he should be able to see Swain is the strongest person in Noxus.

Also, Swain counters the new Sion. So yah, cant talk smack to someone who can kick your ass.

LordHippoman4 votes

Swain already backstabbed the previous Grand General in Kalamanda, most likely cheated in his duel with Keiran (He used many LeBlanc like abilities), and is allied with Ms. "Lying is like, 90% of what I do".

Swain is definitely a schemer, and I think Sion knows he's a puppet.

Sion "I am not your pawn, Swain!"

More from Story, Art, & Sound

Petition to keep the Bilgewater ARAM map in circulation
Story, Art, & Sound154 comments
1,161
votes
[SUPER IMPORTANT PETITION] Change Sion's ban quote...
Story, Art, & Sound54 comments
597
votes
Can we get an Honor animation?! 4 ways to insult an opponent but none to congratulate them.
Story, Art, & Sound202 comments
578
votes
Petition to make Rengar wiggle his butt when there's a pounce-able target near his bush
Story, Art, & Sound140 comments
476
votes
About this years harrowing...
Story, Art, & Sound357 comments
459
votes
RIOT, please postpone Blood Moon Diana and make it into a Legendary skin.
Story, Art, & Sound236 comments
423
votes

More by NA Darklarik

For the new BloodRazor enchantment, can we keep the wolf?
Story, Art, & Sound82 comments
223
votes
An age where a full AD team has nothing to fear from a team building Armor on everyone
Gameplay210 comments
156
votes
Duskblade is literally causing the same problems Deathfire's grasp did, yet it still exists.
Gameplay120 comments
114
votes
The lack of communication with Riot is a major part of the reason why the community is so toxic
Player Behavior21 comments
77
votes
Are you just looking to make Targon as unsympathetically hated as possible? The True Antagonists...
Story, Art, & Sound138 comments
64
votes
Why is no one mentioning Tryndamere and Yasuo with the new IE changes.
Gameplay65 comments
54
votes