What exactly does it mean to be a "God", "Demon", "spirit" in League of Legends lore wise?

lolipopevelynn·Nov 26, 2015·8 votes·3,867 views

honestly they all seem to be the same to me. is a cosmic being that is capable of saving the entire universe or even steering it into a different direction altogether. is literally death, is some kind of demon, and now is priestess to nagakabourous which is an actual God.

how exactly do they relate to each other? because in my mind atleast are all on the same plain, but nagakabourous is on a different plain? i honestly dont get it. is nagakabourous above all of them in terms of power and spirit? what makes it different from the rest or even ?

its just something thats not clear to me. in it states she is just a "God of the serpent isles", which means she really isnt a "God" of anything else. is the title of "God" simple a title no different from being a king or queen of something? because thats what it seems like to me when you look at other "Gods" in league such as "Sun God" and "moon God".

maybe someone can enlighten me.

24 Comments

GreenLoreNov 26, 20155 votes

Aatrox actually seems like a more physical being. I dunno if he really is on a different plain of existence,or if he simply lives in the physical world,but he usually is alone.

Basically Bard,Tahm kench and maybe even Kindred(who might be more like an avatar of death and not death itself) seem to be lesser spirits. They are powerful,but they still have their limits. Nagakaborous is the god of life,motion and something else that i forgot,so I guess that Nagakabouros is simply on a whole different level than the spirits we get to play,but is even less connected to the physical world.

SharjoNov 26, 20152 votes

God of life, motion, the ocean and storms.

lolipopevelynnNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

God of life, motion, the ocean and storms.

then what about void creatures? they are clearly living... but illaoi seems to REALLY REALLY hate rek sai... for no real apparent reason. out of any other inhabitants of runetera the void creatures seem to be the most willing to change, something illaoie preaches about constantly. khazix in particular.

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

They aren't of Valoran, so they probably aren't connected to her god like everyone else. Hell the void could be a type of hell for Illaoi's religion.

Alternatively they seek to control their change, which doesn't really make it change.

turkeyBACONNov 26, 20151 votes

I wouldn't call Kindred an avatar as that implies a physical form and all depictions Kindred so far imply that they don't have one. I would call Leona and Diana avatars before Kindred.

Perhaps Runeterra's cosmic pantheon exist in a similar sense to the way gods exist in Gaimen's Sandman and American Gods. They exist and have power based on the amount of belief.

Myths, legends and cultural practice manifest actual spiritual beings that take the form the view point of the believer. Tahm Kench is a gaint cat fish demon of hunger and greed in bildgewater but has a completely different appearance to yordles. In this sense Tahm, Kindra, Bard and Nagakaborous seem to manifest on the same plane of existence.

There isn't enough info but I would place Aatrox, Nasus, Ren, and Lissandra on a similar but lower plane as they seem to wield great power as avatars and seem to exist implicitly in the world with phyiscal forms that can not enter the cosmic plane. Leona, Diana, and Illoai may be on level with these guys too depending on how much power they have access to.

GreenLoreNov 26, 20151 votes

Overall what is an avatar and what not is up to the interepretation of a given universe and even then there could be different kinds of avatar.

Kindred would be more like an aspect of death,while leona and diana are humans who were granted the power of their respective gods.

Thinking about it,I guess that gods are probably limited to their interaction with the physical world and thus need some kind of medium to directly affect the human world(leona,diana and Illaoi would be mediums like that). Spirits might be more like creations of them that can interact with the world a bit more freely,maybe they actually were directly created by the gods?

RalanrNov 28, 20151 votes

I've always viewed Leona and Diana as messiahs of the sun and moon rather than avatars. But I should probably learn the distinction between a messiah and an avatar.

Crowe StalkerNov 26, 20154 votes

Honestly, League of Legends used to be more about the League than the Legends, but ever since they removed the League, it's just Legends.

You know it's true.

To answer your actual question, it's because Riot wants to make every Champion a Special Snowflake. The more you look at all these reworked 'Lores' the more it becomes apparent that literally everyone aside from the Champions is a Side-show. Just look at Poppy! She used to be an angry Blacksmith's Daughter, but now she's apparently destined to lead Demacia to greatness? Then what the fuck are the Lightshields, or are we going to ignore the fact Demacia is a Monarchy leaning towards an Orwellian Society because it's Convenient for your narration at the moment?

lolipopevelynnNov 26, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, League of Legends used to be more about the League than the Legends, but ever since they removed the League, it's just Legends.

You know it's true.

To answer your actual question, it's because Riot wants to make every Champion a Special Snowflake. The more you look at all these reworked 'Lores' the more it becomes apparent that literally everyone aside from the Champions is a Side-show. Just look at Poppy! She used to be an angry Blacksmith's Daughter, but now she's apparently destined to lead Demacia to greatness? Then what the fuck are the Lightshields, or are we going to ignore the fact Demacia is a Monarchy leaning towards an Orwellian Society because it's Convenient for your narration at the moment?

ya man, i think things made more sense when the justice society/"the league" was main lore. everything connected and everyone knew each other, now its not clear what connections are or what roles are. its kind of annoying.

like i think they are going to completely revamp Demacias lore and formation aswell as they have been hints to a 3 way war with demacia, freljord, and noxus in the last two events.

Ebonmaw DragonNov 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

its just something thats not clear to me. in it states she is just a "God of the serpent isles", which means she really isnt a "God" of anything else. is the title of "God" simple a title no different from being a king or queen of something? because thats what it seems like to me when you look at other "Gods" in league such as "Sun God" and "moon God".

maybe someone can enlighten me.

The champions arent gods, they represent gods, like the Pope or Pharaohs... or priests.

The Sun is the "god" of Leona and the Solari The Moon is the "god" of Diana and the Lunari The Beared Lady, Mother Serpent, Kraken, Nagakabouros is the god of Illaoi Vilemaw is the god of Elise.

A "god" seems to be a misterious and powerfull (sentient) creature that dictates a "way of livng" (or... unliving if that is even a word in the case of Vilemaw) . They also can give power to those who belive in them.

SharjoNov 26, 20152 votes

Well in Illaoi's eyes the primary God is Nagakabouros, as Nagakabouros is EVERYTHING. Gods and spirits seem like interchangeable terms in this instance for Illaoi's religion so in that way we can imagine Nagakabouros as the supreme god above all things. Other beings like Kindred, Bard, Anivia, the Sun and Moon, they all fall in to the category of great powers that exist within the bounds of Nagakabouros herself, and as such while they may constitute to being gods they aren't as high on the food chain as the Bearded Lady.

Then there's Darkin and Demons.

Honestly I don't know with them, but my thoughts right now is that Darkin and Demons aren't a part of the great flow that Nagakabouros represents. I'm always gonna be drawn to something WAAARGHbobo said, that demons existed differently before they used humans for sustenance, implying they predate humans entirely. Not only that but the two beings seem immortal, and Illaoi isn't a fan of immortality in the living beings of Runeterra. Spirits and gods sure but Illaoi doesn't seem put the Darkin and Demons on the same level as those.

What I think, right now, and this is total head canon, is that before life truly came to be in the form of animals, plants and what not, the Demons and Darkin existed. They were eternal beings without souls, so they could live forever but would never find their way back to the world if they were to die. They'd be gone for good. Something happened that brought life to the world that had souls and could find meaning even after death and it changed the way in which the dark beings lived. Potentially they world couldn't sustain them anymore, and so they began to die out or something, or maybe they grew to despise these beings who could endure past death, and tried destroying them. The strongest among them changed their ways so that they could sustain themselves from the living beings of the world, but they still remained as shadows of their former selves, living as the last of their species in a world that was no longer theirs.

I went way off the deep end in theorizing as I got further in that, but eh, something to think about I guess.

A Superb VillainNov 26, 20153 votes

You raise an interesting point regarding demons and Darkin; they existed in a different state prior to the advent of mortals, and have changed in the interim. Perhaps it is as you said and they lack souls, denying them the eternal cycle that is Nagakabouros. While many died, and thus were consigned to oblivion, some discovered a means of transcending their limitation; Aatrox is sustained by the wars of men, while Tahm manifests wherever a heart hungers. Essentially, they cheated their eventual fate by forming a symbiotic relationship with mortals.

SharjoNov 26, 20152 votes

they cheated their eventual fate by forming a symbiotic relationship with mortals.

More a parasitic relationship I'd say but the point still stands. Of course we only have two (known) examples to draw upon but I feel like there's some importance in even the tiny details here. I mean for one thing the Darkin are known by us to be a people of whom only five remain, of which three are known to human history. Everyone wonders where the two who're known are but what about the other two? If Aatrox sustains himself off of humans conflict and the other two do something similar, then why are the remaining two not involved with humans? Are they avoiding them? Is it a personal decision or are they impaired from doing so? The Darkin are said to be a race, implying they had a society, a culture of their own. When the time arrived and they had to change, were there some who refused to indulge on the sentient species who supplanted their society?

I liked to entertain the idea that Demons targeted Darkin in ancient times, and turned to humans when the Darkin began to dwindle in numbers. But then I wonder why the Darkin diminished anyway, given how powerful Aatrox is made out to be. Of course not all of their kind could be that strong but still, you'd assume they'd be able to fight for themselves, and you'd also assume a war against mighty winged beings would be documented SOMEWHERE in human history.

I wanna pose a question. Culturally, if you're a people who die and die permanently and you know it, and new beings arise as competition to you who endure through death thanks to their souls, how do you react to that? I feel like the Darkin faced something like that. This is all super thread bare theorizing but I just wanna put it out there.

Star GuardíanNov 26, 20151 votes

Gods and demons depends on the opinion of the culture viewing them. Aatrox may be a god to someone he sides with and a demon to someone he strikes down. My question is if there is one true God of the Runeterra universe (other than the writers)

FasmodeyNov 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Gods and demons depends on the opinion of the culture viewing them. Aatrox may be a god to someone he sides with and a demon to someone he strikes down. My question is if there is one true God of the Runeterra universe (other than the writers)

They said they don't want to have a literally omnipotent character in LoL. May be they said for champions, but it would make everything less interesting if we had a true God.

DreamspitterNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Gods and demons depends on the opinion of the culture viewing them. Aatrox may be a god to someone he sides with and a demon to someone he strikes down. My question is if there is one true God of the Runeterra universe (other than the writers)

in Dungeons & Dragons terms, I think Aatrox might approach Demigod, or Divine Rank 0.

NA DarklarikNov 27, 20151 votes

Kindred is omnipresent. Just because they can manifest infront of someone like that actress dosent mean they arent everywhere. Look at the lore, Kindred was on the battlefield. They are their everytime a person dies, be it illness or injury, you just cant see them. For story telling purposes yes, Kindred manifests infront of the actor and for gameplay purposes they have a form in game.

Id say they are on the same plain as Nagak

lolipopevelynnNov 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=NA Darklarik,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6ULEAmXH,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-27T07:13:58.152+0000)

Kindred is omnipotent. Just because they can manifest infront of someone like that actress dosent mean they arent everywhere. Look at the lore, Kindred was on the battlefield. They are their everytime a person dies, be it illness or injury, you just cant see them. For story telling purposes yes, Kindred manifests infront of the actor and for gameplay purposes they have a form in game.

Id say they are on the same plain as Nagak

funny thing is, everyone meets kindred sooner or later, including illaoi. if "immortals" can also "end" then nagakabourous is no different and would also meet kindred. kindred talks about there own end aswell and they are supposedly "immortal". they apparently kill each other as kindred wont run from wolf and wolf will chose lambs arrow, and if they end then that means it is because there will no longer be a purpose for them, which means it is because the universe itself has ended and there is no one left to chase nor get an arrow to the knee.

this could be writers who wrote themselves in a corner tho. that being said, illaoi states in one of her quotes that "even death fears nagakabourous", which makes sense seeing as death ends life and naga creates it. but if kindred isnt ACTUALLY death then it would be interesting to see who is the real "God of death" in this game since its now established naga is the "God of life and motion". death would obviously be the completely opposite of that i assume. there is no motion in death.

NA DarklarikNov 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

funny thing is, everyone meets kindred sooner or later, including illaoi. if "immortals" can also "end" then nagakabourous is no different and would also meet kindred. kindred talks about there own end aswell and they are supposedly "immortal". they apparently kill each other as kindred wont run from wolf and wolf will chose lambs arrow, and if they end then that means it is because there will no longer be a purpose for them, which means it is because the universe itself has ended and there is no one left to chase nor get an arrow to the knee.

this could be writers who wrote themselves in a corner tho. that being said, illaoi states in one of her quotes that "even death fears nagakabourous", which makes sense seeing as death ends life and naga creates it. but if kindred isnt ACTUALLY death then it would be interesting to see who is the real "God of death" in this game since its now established naga is the "God of life and motion". death would obviously be the completely opposite of that i assume. there is no motion in death.

I think it could just be her boasting, and Kindred dosent fear anything. Karthus also thinks he is Death incarnate. There is nothing that says Naga 'creates' life. Also, when she says "Even death fears Naga" she could be referring to the undead, and THAT would make a lot more sense considering even Hecarim ran like a sissy from her and Naga.

lolipopevelynnDec 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=NA Darklarik,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6ULEAmXH,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-11-27T21:58:12.608+0000)

I think it could just be her boasting, and Kindred dosent fear anything. Karthus also thinks he is Death incarnate. There is nothing that says Naga 'creates' life. Also, when she says "Even death fears Naga" she could be referring to the undead, and THAT would make a lot more sense considering even Hecarim ran like a sissy from her and Naga.

but the undead isnt death nor is it life, its undeath. which is why naga, ill, and kindred hates them so much. they exist outside of the natural order of there own universe.

but i guess that is debatable, im a person who does not consider a zombie/undead type of being to be dead nor do i consider it death.

NA DarklarikDec 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

but the undead isnt death nor is it life, its undeath. which is why naga, ill, and kindred hates them so much. they exist outside of the natural order of there own universe.

but i guess that is debatable, im a person who does not consider a zombie/undead type of being to be dead nor do i consider it death.

tell that to the death pope Karthus

DreamspitterNov 27, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=NA Darklarik,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6ULEAmXH,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-27T07:13:58.152+0000)

Kindred is omnipotent. Just because they can manifest infront of someone like that actress dosent mean they arent everywhere. Look at the lore, Kindred was on the battlefield. They are their everytime a person dies, be it illness or injury, you just cant see them. For story telling purposes yes, Kindred manifests infront of the actor and for gameplay purposes they have a form in game.

Id say they are on the same plain as Nagak

The Q&A if I recall said they were omnipresent. I don't recall omnipotent.

DreamspitterNov 27, 20151 votes

Saw this thread on Reddit...

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3bzey3/tahm_kench_originnature_possible_explanation/

Remember, this game is League of LEGENDS -and what "Lore" we have isnt encyclopedic its legend and LORE. It may not be accurate, and may have conflicting versions.

*When the Gambler hears the song that calls on him to chance his luck again -- A gambler, thinking the way out of his misery is by trying that last gamble. *"The singer was a creature, with the biggest mouth the Gambler had ever seen (...)" -- Your thoughts become very persuasive when it comes to convincing you to indulge in your addiction.

So the Gambler ends up travelling away to try his chance again (sort of gambling isn't it?) *"Now when that hungry beast finally did rise" -- When the Gambler's hunger for "dice and cards" (gambling) rouse. *"And although the Gambler tried to cast him out" -- Although the Gambler tried to supress his own vices. *"It ate the gifts, the house, and gold!" -- His gambling addiction ended up consuming everything. *"This hunger's a burden, but it's the last time I swear, so please forgive" -- Now, are these the words of a demon/spirit? Or the Gambler's own words?

Basically I'm saying that Tahm is the materialisation of a person's own "demons", and Tahm will take the mannerisms of wichever person it wants to feed on.

He is the spirit of people's own, self made shackles.

Tahm let the Gambler try his luck again by going to some other land start fresh, but you can't run from yourself. Should the Gambler redeem himself it would have been wherever he was, with whatever problems he had caused. By trying his luck again he was letting the beast in - I think whenever the Gambler indulged, he let Tahm in.

Bits from the Q&A now, Q: Tahm says that "the world is one river, and i'm its king. Ain't no place i can't go, aint no place i cant go again." Is this true? (...) And how does that work anyways? (...) Not every lake, river, ocean, pool and oasis is connected, (...) Maybe there is a massive underground ocean that only he knows of? A: There is an ocean of darkness in every man's soul.

Q: In the River King video, Tahm makes a bargain with the gambler then comes to collect years later. Why does Tahm even need to make a Faustian deal in the first place instead of crashing any party whenever he wants? Is he bound by certain rules? Is that what he meant by being "let in"? A: Yes. Traditionally there are always rules with demons and devils. The gambler is making a bargain (ultimately with himself). It is the bargain that allows Tahm to create the human misery he feeds on.

Q: Why does Tahm feel the need to trick people? He could easily walk up to a village and eat everybody, since he obviously isn't threatened by most beings. He said that when he devoured the gambler's wife, it left him satisfied. Does he have some sort of physiological disorder? Supposedly he feeds on "despair", but i'm pretty sure anybody getting eaten by a giant monster will be in despair. A: If I can answer a question with a question. Who's despair is Tahm eating in the story? How is his bargain causing the maximum amount of sorrow?

His bargain gives hope to the Gambler, who thinks that he has been given a new chance -- He has not. He gambled his way out, and "a person is its own worst enemy". By raising the Gambler's hope, then watching it being destroyed by the Gambler himself Tahm created the most misery outta that.

Tahm didn't get fed off of the wife, he got fed on the Gambler's misery and failure in escaping his own conditioning.

Ironclad DragonDec 1, 20151 votes

Nothing technically makes Nagakaborous any more special or powerful than a normal spirit. It is the subject of a faith, but that doesn't mean it has godlike power.