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The Void - How about some lore about the void itself?

TheSeltzerBaron·11/30/2014, 8:52:47 PM·7 votes·1,942 views

There's a brief description of the void in lore but if H.P. Lovecraft can crank out book after book about stuff like that then I think more time could be spent giving background on the void itself. It seems stupid if you take the void for its name literally but obviously it's not empty because stuff is coming out of it. If things are coming out, things are in it and if things are in it then there's somewhere inside there for them to exist. Look at my name, I care about this. "In The Mouth Of Madness" is one of my favorite movies (love Sam Neill) and I'm fascinated by the idea of all this forbidden, lost knowledge of deep dark places where horrible things are lurking. It really stirs my imagination.

I love Malzahar and his lore is so tantalizing yet it never goes into details. I would swoon if there was a place made to flesh out the background for some of that as official canon. Right now it seems like random things are popping out of the void but there has to be a hierarchy of beings, deities, etc... and places for them to be or rule. Do this, I command you!

17 Comments

Narasimha12/1/2014, 4:30:08 AM5 votes

H.P. Lovecraft can crank out book after book about stuff like that

Mate... Have you ever READ any of Lovecraft's stories? There basically exists two forms of backgrounds in his relevant stories.

  1. An ancient entity or entities
  2. An entity or entities completely incomprehensible to humans

There is no definition of the void/space/outer realms per say. The best we really get are that there are other dimensions and places beyond human understanding, and that humans are best warned not to going meddling around there.

More back on track, it'd be better to describe the Void as a sort of central 'zone'. A lot of creatures exist there, each with its own purpose and motive. I suspect that they rarely interact with each other at all, or we'd have more hints of such. Chances are, each race from the Void goes about things its own way for its own end. It also seems far more likely that Runeterra isn't constantly being attacked by beings from the Void because its just not a prime concern. Much like in Lovecraftians tales, Earth isn't a battleground or wasteland simple because the Others don't care enough. We're just one world out of many. And as many have said it best "Pray we keep it that way."

Rebonack11/30/2014, 11:05:08 PM3 votes

I think the first thing that needs to be nailed down about the Void is what end of the ontological spectrum they're from.

What I mean is, when it comes to eldritch abominations they typically fall into one of two camps. Either they're un-real and undefined things that are drawn to form and purpose like a moth to a flame, but they would smother that fire just as surely as dropping a candle into the ocean would. Or they're more real than real. Beings to which the reality we understand and live within is little more than a vague and indistinct dream by contrast. Beings that can exist in our universe as little more than echos or shadows of themselves in much the same way that a real, living being can interact through a video game via an avatar.

Both sides of that extreme are unspeakably incomprehensible, so different from us that we lack the context to grasp them on any real level.

Unfortunately, the impression I'm getting from Voidborn now is that they're just monsters from the spooky purple dimension, which is a real shame.

Rebonack12/3/2014, 8:43:11 PM2 votes

If something comprehensible can come out of the void then we can comprehend it.

That depends. Maybe the Voidborn are little more than physical avatars of far more vast, far more alien beings that can't physically exist in a material universe?

Maybe the Voidborn are calcified into comprehensible shape in the mere act of manifesting in Runeterra? Do note that Koggy manifested. He came to be of physical form. That implies that he wasn't before. The sensory input he got upon having a physical body was overwhelming to him.

Of course, that's old Lore. As has been pointed out, Riot seems to be in the midst of changing their stance on what the Void is. They were really dodgy about Void-related questions in the Rek'Sai Q&A.

Siachi11/30/2014, 8:58:18 PM2 votes

Honestly, with that riot quote a few days back that says that the void is still divided into multiple species, I'd like to see if there's a caste system of sorts, or whether each individual tribe/species has it's own individual ruler/government, or if there's a Void Union or something (And if it's the later, if there are any dissenters of sorts to this union).

Spellbound187512/3/2014, 9:08:51 AM1 votes

Describing the Void does kind of run counter to the Void itself. Not to mention it kills the mystery. In Lovecraft's writings we don't get a description of where the horrors from beyond the veil come from (generally). The story is more focused on the here and now. A lot of the horror comes from the seemingly mundane locations these things just happen to be at. In a small fishing town, in an abandoned house, in the ocean... somewhere. The living conditions of the creatures in his story are rarely explored, certainly not while the creatures are around or alive. One of the key points is our inability to comprehend a lot of things. And the things we can comprehend we probably shouldn't.

However when we get into what we can and can't comprehend we have to think about what that means for the Void. You happen to make a fair number of assumptions on the Void's qualities. For instance: The Void has space, the Void has boundaries, the Void has form, the Void has separate parts, the Void is constant or consistent, the Void contains things our sense can perceive at all. We really have no idea what the Void is, or contains, or how it functions. The Void could play by a set of indescribable rules. Consider this. If the Void lacks form and shape then all Voidborn are normally formless. They are not locked into specific dimensions. They only have these specific dimensions we see them as having because they have to play by Runeterra's rule when they come to visit. And they aren't particularly fond of that. Cho'gath finds all of us disgusting because this is how we live our lives normally. It kind of squicks out Vel'koz and makes him homesick. If our reality is so fundamentally different from their's how are we supposed to write about it? What I just wrote assumes you can accept what I'm saying on an abstract level. I cannot demonstrate any of the concepts I just provided. They are literally impossible in our universe. The best you can do is guess at what I mean on an abstract level. It's impossible to picture. I don't blame Riot for not wanted to write about what might be. Doing it justice is impossible.

Though the Rek'sai Q&A may have just ruined that. Turns out the Void comes equipped with burrow-able terrain, which means form and space and boundaries, and constancy and...

TheSeltzerBaron12/3/2014, 8:34:48 PM1 votes

I think saying "we can't comprehend" the void or stuff in it is a major cop-out by the writers for not elaborating. If something comprehensible can come out of the void then we can comprehend it. It's not hard to look at the void critters and figure out that they have describable parts. We may not understand them fully or their purpose but that's far from incomprehensible.

They made something mysterious and interesting so isn't it natural to want to know more about it? I realize this isn't D&D but they have entire books about alternate dimensions and planes with all kinds of neat and horrifying things in them. Anyone with a decent imagination can come up with good stuff to explain the void, the writers at Riot damn well better have good imaginations and be creative or why the hell do they have their jobs? I have written a book so I know what's involved. It is possible to describe things that you don't fully understand so I don't buy the idea that it's impossible to do it justice. That's another cop-out for not wanting to put time in on something.

It can be done and I want it to be done, the real question is whether Riot wants to pay the writers to put forth the effort. I can imagine some of the writers would enjoy coming up with this stuff, I would.

Spellbound187512/19/2014, 1:19:57 AM1 votes

As I am not a Riot employee I cannot say what is or is not in the Void. I am merely offering a possible explanation for the Void. Also I would like to thank you for the stimulating discussion. :)

At the Mountains of Madness is not about other realities but it does mention the idea. The big C (Cthulhu) and his spawn come from a place so far away as to be alien to the Elder things. The general consensus is that things of that nature aren't wholly from our reality.

On the first point... it's a rule that something needs to come from a place or another thing. Nothing doesn't have those. Therefore nothing could just spit out matter. Of course at that point we have something so it isn't likely to happen again. But it could happen.

My response to the second point would be that the Voidborn only have something comprehensible in our reality. The point about nothing was not that the Void has nothing, just that the Void may be lacking some of the things we have in our reality. And currently, yeah it seems Riot is going the way of "the Void has matter, and space, and time, and other stuff" but they do not have to. In theory they can still do the opposite. They haven't been very clear on it, probably because they haven't got it nailed down yet. They may, (and in fact probably) will go your way in the future. But that does not mean it is the only viable way for the Void to be. To be clear, if the Void didn't have space or boundaries then the Voidborn would not need these things while in the Void.

Descriptions like that kind of back my point up. They don't say anything meaningful or deeply descriptive. It's merely there to show you that the character viewing the thing literally cannot describe it effectively. They have no words to capture what they've witnessed so they default to words that apply a label to a concept that cannot be experienced. The point is not to be dramatic but to drive home how bizarre and horrific the things being witnessed are, at least in Lovecraft's case.

But in the Mountains of Madness we don't learn much about the Elder Things and we don't see the inner portions of the city. Just the tiniest bit about their history and a bit of the outer sections. I personally have nothing against writing about the Void, in fact I love the idea, and love doing it myself. However, it's a thin line too walk. Explaining too much turns the Void into "scary purple monster world" which I feel does a disservice to the inspiration. Basically I want them to write about it, but I'd prefer to keep it limited in scope. I'd love to hear more about Icathia and what the Voidborn are doing on Runeterra.

I would like to make it clear, that I am merely offering an alternative take on the Void and that this doesn't mean it can't be discussed in universe. Just that describing the Void itself in terms that make it too similar to Runeterra, and in fact our reality takes away from what the Void has already claimed to be.

TheSeltzerBaron12/2/2014, 2:03:38 AM1 votes

I haven't read much of Lovecraft because I can't afford to buy hard copy or downloadable books. The best I could get was a few chapters in a torrent and they were all badly mixed up/incomplete so that's a no-go.

Anyway... I still want to hear more about the void because the way it is the void is just being used as a convenient plot device to explain where nasty-looking things have come from. Vel'Koz seems to break the mold of void creatures because "it" is very intelligent, seeking knowledge etc... whereas the others are more the slavering beast type. Malzahar is supposed to be the prophet of the void. Ok... but if he's a prophet then shouldn't he be, you know, professing things? Prophets usually act as the announcers that something or someone is coming to do stuff to you, like : "They're coming." or "Unspeakable horrors will be unleashed upon the world" or "The Old Ones will subjugate every people. Prepare yourselves for worship or face unimaginable torment." I don't see any of that kind of thing coming from him.

It's not fair that Riot would make the void just to explain that stuff came from it and not give anything else. Other people talk about factions, well, I think the void would be a "faction" of sorts whether or not the creatures it's spewing out decided to work with each other. I mean I bought Vel before he was out a full week just because he was from the void even though he was listed as hard to play. I love playing him now but I want more story depth. Maybe Lovecraft didn't go into details like that but that's no reason Riot can't.

Rebonack12/2/2014, 6:21:40 AM1 votes

Nearly all of Lovecraft's works can be found on Wikisource.

Links!

In case you want to read some of his stuff. It's oodles of fun.

We do have some information on the Void if nothing else.

  1. It is the space between spaces.

  2. It is apparently lightless.

  3. Void creatures oft find the material world uncomfortable and its inhabitants hideous and unnatural.

  4. Beings from the Void were once pushed from Runeterra in aeons past.

  5. The Void has creatures that huge idols in Icathia were built to.

  6. The Void has a corruptive influence on the minds of mortals.

  7. Void creatures apparently are able to disregard conventional laws of physics when it suits them.

Nveriyoth12/3/2014, 3:26:23 AM1 votes

It is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space, and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call … the Void.

All jokes aside, it's pretty much what it sounds like. A void; a harsh, barren realm without any of the comforts we hold so dear, like oxygen, gravity, light, warmth, and senses except for taste. And hunger. Nothing but an endless, ravening hunger that seeks to consume everything. EVERYTHING IN ITS PATH. It is a living entity, in which smaller entities come forth from the dark and twisted mirages and visions in its fitfully dreaming mind, sharing its hunger and seeking to devour whatever it can. Mostly this entails other smaller entities, but some are lucky and escape from their "home's" grasp to a new world filled with wonders. Particularly … edible wonders. Sometimes, it grabs hold of an unlucky mortal, and heeds them to take up the Void's cause, but slowly consuming them from the inside out and finishing with them when they've outlived their use; sending torturous visions, insanity, and ravenous hunger to others unlucky enough to try to shun it. But you can't shun or fend off the embodiment of man's deepest fears, his deepest inner demons and the ever-consuming fear that one day…you will descend to such depths as being a servant of the Void, a slave, a tool to further its dark purposes.

Basically, it's like Tartarus but without any of the nice stuff like deadly rivers, poison air, and monsters that will kill you quickly.