How were the Darkin corrupted?

Grinning Idiot·Oct 15, 2018·7 votes·9,527 views

I am interested to hear how different people interpret the darkin lore. Aatrox's bio says that everyone who fought the void in Icathia lost something, "...even noble Aatrox."

I always understood this to be a kind of PTSD combined with existential dread from fighting the void and this emotional and mental strain was the first crack in the integrity of the Sunborn.

However, I have seen other posts that seem to view this loss as being an actual physical/ magical corruption of the Sunborn by the void. There is a case for this from some of Aatrox's quotes: "Am I the abyss? Or did I gaze into it?" "There is a darkness in my heart deeper than any shadow."

Even the fact that darkin consume victims' bodies to sustain themselves is similar, at least thematically to how the void spreads, I am thinking of the Frostguard story "The Eye in The Abyss" especially.

Personally, I think the darkin story is more poignant if it is a story of soldiers not able to be the heroes they were supposed to be, and ultimately giving into their own inner darkness and greed after living such long lives. What do you guys think?

29 Comments

wildfox9TOct 15, 201812 votes

How were the Darkin corrupted?

item 2033 [slayer-jinx-wink]

Velzard of KozOct 15, 20188 votes

Varus ,,Do you think it will corrupt us?" Aatrox ,,Nah!" Varus ,,But it says Corrupting Potion on the label." Aatrox ,,Well Old Spice also isn't made from old spices. Don't believe everything on the label."

BLIGHTBRINGEROct 16, 20181 votes

I'm surprised that none of them actually have any voicelines when purchasing Corrupting Potion.

Warlord RhinarkOct 17, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5xcsNgao,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-16T09:54:58.766+0000)

I'm surprised that none of them actually have any voicelines when purchasing Corrupting Potion.

I'm surprised Riot has just stopped implementing specific voicelines for purchasing specific items in general.

DerMangoJoghurtOct 15, 20189 votes

It's most likely a combination of all those things. Corruption by the void, loss of purpose, arrogance, hunger for power, clinging to the past; all of those factors contributed towards the Darkin. I doubt that the Void alone would have led to the Darkin wars, at least not that fast. In Twilight of the Gods Shabaka and Shabake are the most corrupted Darkin, yet they don't show any aggressive tendencies.

GelsominoKillerOct 16, 20182 votes

I would be rather disappointed if the void had a direct, magical effect in corrupting the Sunborn. An indirect one? For sure (PTSD, psychic collapse for witnessing and fighting such horrors, loss of perspective and will to live), that's great.

But the void just turning the Sunborn bad would take away too much from the trope of "immortal, powerful, humans ascended to godhood that crumble for the weight of time and their petty mortal desires and emotions"

AnAggravatedPimpOct 15, 20185 votes

I think it's more a literal loss of self, as seen in the fall of Ithaca story. How the warrior lost bits and pieces of his name until as the void broke him down into nothing. Ascendant are more powerful than an average human so it stands to reason that it would be much harder to strip away their identity so the void did something more interesting, it pulled at their positive emotions, because I'm sure the Ascendant weren't abundantly joyous while fighting the abominations of the void. Any Ascendant that couldn't overcome the terror that they experienced moved on to become more and more aggressive until the infighting and use of body warping blood magic became commonplace and the humans dubbed the warring gods, Darkin.

Grinning IdiotOct 15, 20181 votes

This makes me wonder if you see this emotional attack as a concious decision on the part of the void/void entities, or maybe as a sort of evolved response, the void just doing what works without any recognizavke intelligence?

I want to clarify because my view of the sunborn falling; a natural response of a psyche, even one as strong as an Ascended's to something like the void, could be phrased as "the void attacking their positive emotions",

For me it comes down to deciding if what happened to the sunborn was a reaction to the void, or a result of proactive steps taken by the void, conciously or not.

Sorry to ramble, I just really like understanding how different people interpret these things.

AnAggravatedPimpOct 15, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grinning Idiot,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5xcsNgao,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-10-15T18:52:49.050+0000)

This makes me wonder if you see this emotional attack as a concious decision on the part of the void/void entities, or maybe as a sort of evolved response, the void just doing what works without any recognizavke intelligence?

I want to clarify because my view of the sunborn falling; a natural response of a psyche, even one as strong as an Ascended's to something like the void, could be phrased as "the void attacking their positive emotions",

For me it comes down to deciding if what happened to the sunborn was a reaction to the void, or a result of proactive steps taken by the void, conciously or not.

Sorry to ramble, I just really like understanding how different people interpret these things.

Np, I'm busy atm so just as rambley.

I meant the stripping away of positive emotion in a more wartime sense. That during battle would be focused more on a need for survival, feelings of desperation, rage, and desires for revenge would be common.

Basically the Ascendant would be so full of a range of emotions in various intensities that if the Voids corruption were to assault all of them equally then the weaker feeling would get picked apart first. It wouldn't be a coordinated or planned attack by the Void just a standard response to attack all aspects of a being and peel off what you can

Grinning IdiotOct 15, 20181 votes

Oh! Thats really interesting and it makes a ton of sense. I always see the void as a purely physical force, like an exotic virus or something, but characters like malz or the guy from the iceborn story were attacked mentally. It makes sense that the void would attack/consume every aspect of a living creature. So that would mean that the darkin are almost like half-eaten, parts of their "soul" are missing, leaving only those bitter emotions that were too strong to be taken by the void. Thats really cool

Pika FoxOct 15, 20185 votes

They are humans turned "gods" with "immortality", live extended periods of time and faught in horrific wars that made them bear witness to horrors and deaths unspeakable, and witnessed planes of "existence" that boggles the mind.

Basically, they have human minds, and their psyche couldnt handle it.

Grinning IdiotOct 15, 20181 votes

That's basically what I think, and I think it makes a great story, in that they dont just become depressed or withdraw from life, but this damage propels them to become warlords and conquerors.

I know im reading into it a little, but I like to think they are also trying to escape their failures: they were supposed to be gods, infallible, but they knew that the void war left them damaged and then they failed to keep their emperor safe, so then they each are trying to exert control, bending mortals to their will and fighting each other to prove that they are strong and capable, undamaged.

M00ndanc3Oct 15, 20184 votes

How i see it, The Darkin got corrupted by the void mentally. The void planted more of a seed of corruption in there minds. This corruption was minor and was able to be kept in check since they were able to devote themselves entirely to serving there Queen and eventually Azir. But with the fall of Azir and tensions at an all time high that corruption spread and twisted there minds and made many of them paranoid of the others.

OleandervineOct 15, 20184 votes

I personally didn't like the Darkin becoming fallen Ascended, I think it looped far too much of the lore in on itself which leads to stagnation and too many explanations. I much preferred when the Darkin were an unknown alien force from outside the world threatening invasion and extermination of the humans. I think it explained their introduction of new magics better (Blood Magic) as well as gave us an understanding without explaining it as to why Darkin beings trapped in weapons would still be able to exert their will and form onto those who bore the weapons. I think the amount of unknown around the Darkin as otherworldly invaders made for a much richer story with limitless potential, and also provided a new type of villain to enrich the world with, aside from Void and Undead.

Grinning IdiotOct 15, 20182 votes

It definitely loops back but I thought the narrative told was worth it. And if you ask me, there is a fine line to walk between having too much in a world and having everything be related when it comes to world-building.

What definitely feels too homogenous is the way some rioters comments seem to be closely associating becoming an ascended and being an aspect of targon, what I am worried about is that every "super-powered" person is just somehow buffed by targon.

This is also why I really liked the new lissandra lore. While it does go back to the void, it also has suggestions of an elemental power in runeterra that can match the strength of the void, remember Lissandra uses true ice, not dark ice, to trap the watchers.

OleandervineOct 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grinning Idiot,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5xcsNgao,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-10-15T19:03:56.720+0000)

It definitely loops back but I thought the narrative told was worth it. And if you ask me, there is a fine line to walk between having too much in a world and having everything be related when it comes to world-building.

What definitely feels too homogenous is the way some rioters comments seem to be closely associating becoming an ascended and being an aspect of targon, what I am worried about is that every "super-powered" person is just somehow buffed by targon.

This is also why I really liked the new lissandra lore. While it does go back to the void, it also has suggestions of an elemental power in runeterra that can match the strength of the void, remember Lissandra uses true ice, not dark ice, to trap the watchers.

I personally don't think the narrative was particularly worth it. I mean, the story was well written, yes, but the actual content and implications for the world at large homogenized a lot of things and made the Darkin trite, and also degraded the lore around Xerath, Azir, Nasus, and Renekton by tying their creation to Targon and also giving them colossally fatal flaws that they will inevitably become some kind of Darkin once they have any interaction with the now sprawling infestation of the Void that is popping up all over the world.

As for Lissandra, she no longer has the capability to use True Ice in her new lore. I don't know how they're explaining that now, but it's very clear she's unable to make it, considering she's now hoarding true ice weapons (instead of making them herself) and having panic attacks as she sleeps when the Watchers grow closer to escaping (as opposed to simply resealing them each year). Her lore is ALSO a bitter point for me, because it is such a confusing, horrible mess that took away the strength and power Lissandra had as a villain and degrades her to some Billy Bob hoarding ammo in a concrete bunker for when the lizard people come back to take revenge on him. Her new lore is a hot, hot mess that completely ruined her characterization as the woman who had plans we didn't even know about. Her lore is an instance of Riot erasing the "unknown" elements from the lore and over-explaining again, just like they did with the Darkin.

Grinning IdiotOct 15, 20182 votes

I can see where you are coming from. I'll be the first to admit that I will be fan of poorly written/made stuff purely upon my own built up sort of head canon, and by narrative I mean the overall story, not so much the specific written content we read, but more what can be interpreted from it.

Also, thats a good point about stockpiling true ice implying that liss isnt able to use true ice anymore, I hadnt realized that. But still, I think the suggestion of powerful elemental magic is cool take away from it.

And I think liss is still pretty neat, she isnt just a servant of the dark watchers, shes a person completely independent of any higher power, with a unique ability to manipulate dark ice, which only exists as a conflunce of her natural powers and void influence. She intends to rule, she is ambitious, but she won't be pawn of the watchers in exchange for power. I think that is cool

OleandervineOct 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grinning Idiot,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5xcsNgao,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-15T19:57:05.429+0000)

I can see where you are coming from. I'll be the first to admit that I will be fan of poorly written/made stuff purely upon my own built up sort of head canon, and by narrative I mean the overall story, not so much the specific written content we read, but more what can be interpreted from it.

Also, thats a good point about stockpiling true ice implying that liss isnt able to use true ice anymore, I hadnt realized that. But still, I think the suggestion of powerful elemental magic is cool take away from it.

And I think liss is still pretty neat, she isnt just a servant of the dark watchers, shes a person completely independent of any higher power, with a unique ability to manipulate dark ice, which only exists as a conflunce of her natural powers and void influence. She intends to rule, she is ambitious, but she won't be pawn of the watchers in exchange for power. I think that is cool

I don't particularly see ambition and confident defiance translating through with her new bio. I mean, she pisses the bed every night she dreams of the Watchers, and her ultimate goal of "plans within plans" don't make sense anymore. We're not really given a Lissandra who has plans, who knows how they're going to turn out, and who's in it for the long haul. We're not given a Lissandra who knows things the audience doesn't know, and that detracts heavily from her original appeal and mystique. The new Lissandra is confused and a coward, and her lore just feel so incomplete. I really don't like the direction they've taken her, because it's completely broken apart who Lissandra used to be.

Grinning IdiotOct 15, 20181 votes

Yeah, I think this also might come from me being a newer player, I wasnt around when lissandra was released, when I started paying attention to lore, she was just a mysterious bad guy that for me was never going to go anywhere, so I like this newer version possibly just because I never connected to the old one and I don't feel any friction from her being uncertain and scared now.

I think I'm in a similar place to you with nautilus. I liked him as a one note tragic figure who is just walking across the floor of the ocean because he has nothing else. This whole new thing with being a bogey man when you dont chuck some coins in the water, especially when fizz can apparently steal them and screw you over just doesnt connect with me.

OleandervineOct 15, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Grinning Idiot,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=5xcsNgao,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-15T20:09:45.368+0000)

Yeah, I think this also might come from me being a newer player, I wasnt around when lissandra was released, when I started paying attention to lore, she was just a mysterious bad guy that for me was never going to go anywhere, so I like this newer version possibly just because I never connected to the old one and I don't feel any friction from her being uncertain and scared now.

I think I'm in a similar place to you with nautilus. I liked him as a one note tragic figure who is just walking across the floor of the ocean because he has nothing else. This whole new thing with being a bogey man when you dont chuck some coins in the water, especially when fizz can apparently steal them and screw you over just doesnt connect with me.

I think for characters like Lissandra, her mystery was a huge part of her. Maybe her lore wasn't going anywhere, but the way she was portrayed made that not matter, since she had control, and she knew what was going well and what wasn't, and it was just a very perfect way to make mystery work for a character. Sometimes, one note characters like her, and Nautilus, need to be in the game, because simplicity sells a story in terms of what you don't know more so than having everything over explained to you. As HP Lovecraft has pointed out, loose ends, not knowing, and the unknown can truly make stories and characters work, because it sparks the imagination and lets it wander and make it's own connections. I think League lore had some of that, but they're now relying too heavily on explanations and looping too many things into other concepts, which will lead back to another "Institute of War" problem in that they'll explain away all their loose ends and be forced to come up with ways of forcing all the characters to work with a story telling structure that's too rigid and too tightly explained to allow for expansion.

ÆtheistOct 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I much preferred when the Darkin were an unknown alien force from outside the world threatening invasion and extermination of the humans.

So rather than the Darkin having a tie-in to the Void, you wanted them to just be a second Void? Unknown alien force threatening invasion, whose members hunger for something humans can provide.

Yeah, the Void's recurring theme is hunger, which manifests in the Darkin as well by their drive to consume their hosts for form and power.

OleandervineOct 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So rather than the Darkin having a tie-in to the Void, you wanted them to just be a second Void? Unknown alien force threatening invasion, whose members hunger for something humans can provide.

Yeah, the Void's recurring theme is hunger, which manifests in the Darkin as well by their drive to consume their hosts for form and power.

I would absolutely rather the Darkin have no ties to the Void, because they are NOT the Void in any sense. Where the Void is a mostly mindless creep that seeks to consume, the Darkin (in Varus' lore update on them last year) were an invading, fully aware, sentient species who were willing to subjugate Runeterra in combat in order to get the resources they wanted. They never "hungered" like you're talking about - they simply wanted the rich supplies of magical energy in the world. Comparing the old Darkin to the void is like comparing mold in your floorboards to the Roman armies that conquered most of Europe.

And the Void's theme is hunger, yes, but the Darkin's theme was not - it was warmongering aliens who were a threat to ALL people. They were trapped in weapons, but they didn't hunger, they wanted their freedom and revenge, so they sought to overthrow the host who picked up the weapons so they could manifest again and exact that vengeance on the world who trapped them in weapons and shut them off from their homeworld. You are making some very long reaches to say that the Darkin and the Void were the same thing, and they really were not.

What they WERE was a enemy who was new to the world, and would have enriched it in a new way by providing a clever, common foe for the people of Runeterra to join together and fight against. It also had the potential to introduce new Darkin in the future, because if they had a home that was sealed, it could very easily be unsealed, and it would have be a constant concern if anyone thought to open it back up again. There was a lot of potential in an alien force that was introducing new types of magic and warfare to the people of the world, and there was a lot of potential to do interesting things with them - but instead, Riot shoehorned them into Shuriman/Targonian/Void lore and tied up any potential loose ends very neatly. They overexplained the Darkin to the point where they didn't have any flexibility for the future with them, and they also put themselves in a weird spot of needing to explain why former Shuriman gods exhibited all of these bizarre powers no other Ascended or Aspects have exhibited. Overall, it looped the lore in on itself and removed the interesting arcs they could have told with the future and dangerous risk that the world of the Darkin posed, even in exile.

RiotWAAARGHboboOct 17, 20184 votes

Personally, I think fantasy and superhero genres work best when they externalize emotions and use symbolism. So whenever possible we try to build those layers into our characters and worldbuilding.

In this case the “void” can be seen as a metaphor for how an endless, brutal war transformed the men who fought it— and Aatrox in particular.

Thus this is a situation where the answer does not, and should not be viewed one or the other (it is not binary). Aatrox was not changed by the void OR ptsd.

Instead both sides can be viewed as simultaneously true and possible— because of that metaphoric connection.

SpideraxeOct 17, 20181 votes

Hey odin can I ask for your thoughts on Aatrox reviving, how much damage do you think a host can take that Aatrox can salvage and recover before they ultimately give in

World KingOct 17, 20181 votes

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SpideraxeOct 17, 20181 votes

I definitely agree that Darkin's need to find "the one" for their hosts, like dating or a favorite meal, so you don't burn out on them both physically and literally I assume. I assume they'd probably have to find one that also sorta has an affinity towards their specific style of pissed off or sorta melds similar personality, like finding a shirt that matches your personality, so yeah i think Varus might think Vayne might be a good host for him, I also assume that it'd make the process of assimilation/corruption easier

Wrathof300Oct 15, 20182 votes

Personally, I think the darkin story is more poignant if it is a story of soldiers not able to be the heroes they were supposed to be, and ultimately giving into their own inner darkness and greed after living such long lives.

I believe this is the correct interpretation. Void corruption is not necessary in becoming a Darkin, the main difference between a Darkin and and Ascended is that, the Darkin are now sealed within weapons. Likely, most Darkin also meddled in blood magic and other dark magic, however if Nasus and Renekton were sealed within their weapons like Aatrox and Rhaast they would have also been considered Darkin. Few of the Darkin were corrupted by the Void to the extent of say Malzahar, eg. Shabake and Shabaka and possibly Syphax from Twilight of the gods.