With the release of Taliyah, is Noxus being too one dimensional?

terkmc·5/4/2016, 9:54:18 PM·18 votes·2,444 views

I mean this is just another champion in the long list of champions whose lore can all start with "All was well, and then Noxian attacked" I get that Noxian is supposed to be the more ruthless and militant faction, but portraying them as "Villain City" is neither interesting nor believable. What happened to a no "hard right and wrong" world? Can Noxus be portrayed positively, their philosophy be more nuanced and in depth in its manifestations other than "we attack everybody"? In the same vein, it's about time we get a deeper look into the more sinister aspects of Demacia.

27 Comments

Oleandervine5/4/2016, 10:13:55 PM6 votes

Yeah, I do recall Riot saying that Noxus and Demacia weren't pure evil vs. good but they haven't done anything to show them otherwise. In fact, Taliyah does more to show dichotomy in factions for Shurima than any other character, and Shurima has only been recently developed in terms of lore. Jhin also goes a long way in breaking up the "omgAzianinjakatana" view of Ionia, while we still don't have a good Noxian who didn't rebel or an evil Demacian. There are ways of showing characters like this; to draw from DND, we could have a lawful evil Demacian who exploits the rules and laws of society for power and personal glory, or we could likewise have a Noxian who is all about living life to their fullest and extreme without being a cold blooded murderer as most Noxians are depicted.

ViashinoWizard5/5/2016, 4:06:19 AM5 votes

But hey, there's totally a good Noxian: Riven!

You know, the soldier who went into self-imposed exile because she thought Noxus had become too evil?

OurLestrade5/4/2016, 10:08:25 PM5 votes

Yep, everyone's lore has some degree of Noxus being evil or a large amount of Noxians dying to show how badass they are. We're still hoping for the day Noxus gets a good lore, but I don't see it coming any time soon :/

Furor Nexis5/4/2016, 10:14:19 PM4 votes

Jaredan has said there's been plans to make Noxus look less "standard cartoon villain-like".

Toa Innodence5/5/2016, 7:37:56 PM2 votes

darius, a dedicated man who fought tooth and nail to keep him and his brother's orphan asses alive, got the opportunity to lead an army after showing his bravery and selecting himself fit for leading. katarina, a daughter of high nobles who trained her all her life to be good at what she does, such that when she failed a mission, she took it upon herself to correct it, prooving her strength to herself. swain is a man who was not as phsically fit as his comrades, but made up for it in cunning and magic, climbing up ranks to bring success to noxus and manage it's war machine and survival of the fittest culture. sion is from a different time, but put leading by example, diving into the enemy and taking glory in his death to take down the leader of the enemy faction, which hid its own treachery behind strong nationalism.

noxus is about being strong and without cowardice, they don't hide their faults with people like leblanc and draven, who are unfortunate by-products of the system. on the other side with Demacia, people are forced into having to be zealots who risk of ending with the fate taric almost faced, who like lux are under pressure from higher ups to serve their will, who like garen are pushed to fight despite their doubts. is noxus a good nation? hell no. but is demacia really that much better with how they hide what they do?

that's the sort of thing the lore originally set out to do, but as you said, noxus is being poorly portrayed such that they are the bad guys when really there's supposed to be a philosophical grey area that the two sides occupy in different ways.

Meep Man5/5/2016, 12:01:18 PM2 votes

A nation can easily look one dimensional from the outside. In reality, Noxus is actually very diverse on the inside. From LeBlanc and Swain with the Black Rose, to Darius and Katarina with their honorable soldier status and just wanting to make their country the strongest, to Draven and his pride filled personality. Karthus was a Noxian a long time ago and Vladimir is also in Noxus.

Noxus is not the "Villain City", but the ideals driven in the city can easily breed villains. Noxus as a city believes in "Strength will let you advance in life, in any way, shape, or form. Be weak and perish." All Noxians want their nation to be the most powerful and such invade other nations often since they want to expand Noxus' strength. Plus, Noxus as a nation is a little poor unless you are at the top, so those that aren't at the top have tons of motivation to help in expanding their nation and therefore their riches since they want said riches. Noxus isn't a villain, they just want strength. Some of them do so in an honorable way that does not violate the rules of war, others do so in a very, VERY villainous way.

Are5/5/2016, 11:35:35 PM1 votes

Noxus is portrayed as being obsessed with strength, and often perceived as bad, but I think there is much more to it than that, we're just not shown the full story. I think it's just cruel in the "the weak perish, and only the strong live on", but it isn't bad in terms of other things. It's a dog eat, dog world, and that's just it. Not sure why they're invading Ionia or fighting with Demacia though.

There was an interesting viewpoint that Noxus was actually good while Demacia was bad. Noxus only cares about strength, nothing else matters. Demacia, however, is too nationalist, to the point of brainwashing/being close to big brother (kind of? Not sure if this will be canon with the retcon though). Everything is for Demacia; the state is more valuable than the individual/people. I don't know if it's still canon, but you can check out Lux's judgement to kind of get an idea.

Arakadia5/6/2016, 2:19:02 AM1 votes

This! I hate that Riot paints their world so black and white. Make interesting cultures and beliefs please!

You could say Demacia is a tyranny who kills those who don't follow their ethics.

Lithillya5/6/2016, 6:22:04 PM1 votes

To be fair, there's been lore showcasing exactly how dark Demacia really is, behind their gilded spires and claims towards honor and justice. Lux' old League Judgement being the best example of this. The problem is that it's lore that's been hard to find, more or less hidden from the people who didn't know where to find it. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lux/Background Scroll down to the "League Judgement" section and have a read. I think it's fair to say that Lux looks like she's one of the most cheerful and happy of the champions in the game, but behind the happy mask she tends to wear, there's something far less so hidden beneath. She was torn from her home, her family and friends at a very young age, her parents thinking only of how great an honor it would be to have her admitted into th academy. To them, it was done in the king's name, and that was all that mattered. The fact that the young girl barricaded herself in her own room, and had to be forcefully be dragged away meant less than nothing. She cried herself to sleep every night, cursing her family for doing such a thing to her. The only thing that ending up giving her a meassure of comfort, was reading the Meassured Thread, which I'd assume is a summation of Demacian ideals. She was more or less being indoctrinated into serving and loving her country. Perhaps the saddest part is that she's aware of it herself, highlighted by a paragraph in the Judgement "The absolute love for her country. The emptiness of realization of what she had willingly grown to love. "

The following is sorta non-canon given that the League has been retconned out of the lore, but the way she's described as feeling, is more likely still accurate:

_“Will you admit the real reason why you want to join the League now?”

Her labored breaths caught in her throat just long enough for her to whisper, “Because I have nothing else…”

The darkness shattered around her, falling to the ground in shards. She crumpled to the ground, heaving sobs racking her body. _

She's not a happy young woman, despite what she wants to show the world. She's been horribly treated by the the other side of Demacia, the part they'd rather keep hidden behind the image of good and justice they like to claim. The worst part is, you more or less have to assume that her story isn't an isolated one, that this could be a very real thing for much of Demacia's youth. Being torn from their homes, and indoctrinated into serving and loving their country above all else, even over the wellbeing of their own family. Demacia might've done less overt evil, they've never invaded countries like Noxus have(That we know of), they might frown on some of the things Noxus is willing to do when it comes to winning.

But at the end of the day? They are, quite frankly, not much less evil than Noxus, they're just more insidious in their particular brand of evil, keeping it behind the scenes. Noxus are entirely open about what they are, they hide nothing. Demacia is the opposite, where in Noxus everyone can gain anything if they have the abilities, in a sense the ultimate idea of freedom, Demacia instead takes away all freedoms, choosing for their citizens, working on them until they conform to the standards the State expects of them.

Does either place seem like a place you'd want to live?

Igotlazy5/5/2016, 4:03:55 AM1 votes

War is usually never fun... ever.

Veraska5/5/2016, 12:21:15 PM1 votes

While the ideals of noxus aren't inherently evil, the people who run noxus (swain, the black rose probably) certainly are, the closest to a non evil noxian is riven and that's because she's an extreme noxian idealist, such so she cast herself in exile when she felt her nation's leaders weren't upholding there cree.

Most characters involved In ionian or demacian lore definitely see noxus as evil because they're antithesis to eachother.

It'd be cool to see a noxian whose not part of the military complex tho, like draven's neat but something less brutal

FloRaider425/5/2016, 5:11:37 PM1 votes

Noxus is morally grey and has black tendencies, but I kinda feel like it is okay, since for the people of valaron Noxus probably has the easiest way to gain power and fame, if you have no background, and champions like Riven and Darius show the more glorious aspects of Noxus.

I am just waiting for the release of a General Ripper, crusading Paladin or even an Inquisitor that shows that a city where royalty is power isn't as thrilling as it may sound.

TBakes5/5/2016, 6:51:01 PM1 votes

But what if Noxus is just trying to spread democracy throughout the world? Isn't it the best option? At least it is far better than whatever system the country currently has, because it works really well for Noxus. So what if they have to overthrow a few dictators and leaders in the process. They may be breaking up some families, killing innocent people, and destroying some communities, but it is for the greater good. Runeterra will be better off if Noxus helps spread their culture to other parts of the world, right?

Hildebrand5/5/2016, 8:01:06 PM1 votes

We probably will see some sort of Noxus Lore Update with another champion and the Swain update, if I had to take a guess.