Everything wrong with – Syndra, Kayle, Morgana

Falrein·12/10/2019, 9:49:24 AM·18 votes·13,721 views

Hi everyone! Today I’d like to do something a bit different – as you can see from the title, I want to talk about everything that is wrong with Kayle, Morgana and Syndra lores. I often get complaints about these 3’s lores, that they are ‘trash’, and as they are my three favourite characters… Well I thought it’d be nice to discuss that.

As a quick disclaimer, this isn’t a complaint thread. More like a… Analysis thread?

Anyway, without further ado, let’s get into it!

EDIT - Feel free to discuss any of my points. I'm more than willing to discuss those, whether you agree or disagree!

######Syndra

Lack of personality and qualities

One of my main complaints about Syndra’s lore is that she has little to no personality beyond being angry… Which in itself isn’t a personality. I know there’s only so much you can fit in a biography, and that The Dreaming Pool being told from an outside perspective doesn’t help. The fact that her VO is old and short doesn’t help either. But the problem remains – It feels like Syndra’s only trait is being angry.

In the same vein, Syndra seemingly has no positive trait. Her whole biography is her either being a victim of her family or overreacting and destroying/killing everything. One could argue she’s a rather strong-willed individual because she’s still standing after everything she’s been through, but she falls to anger too easily, so I wouldn’t be too sure about that one?

Again, The Dreaming Pool being from the perspective of someone who wants to kill her doesn’t help either since she’s depicted as a monster and an abomination, which is fine, but it’s all we have.

Lack of goal

Another problem of Syndra’s narrative is her lack of goal. She has no agenda beyond “No one will ever control me again”, which in theory is fine, but it does feel lacking. I know this can be fixed easily, she’d just need a story with an inside perspective. It could actually fix issue 1 as well.

Generally speaking this isn’t as bad because goals come and go, they can change, etc. I would expect her to have a more solid goal later (should she get a story)… Other than “Destroying Ionia because I’m angry” because that would be the worst thing that could happen but that’s another matter entirely.

Syndra exists in a vacuum

I feel like this is one of the bigger issues. Syndra lived in a different time, at the edge of Ionia. Basically all the elements to completely take her out of any narrative, and to completely take away any importance she could have. No one knows she exists (apart from a few people) and she kind of doesn’t know anyone or anything about current Ionia. Which, again, isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but she feels so detached from everything else, which is a rather annoying thing.

Part of the problem is because she was taken out by the Spirit of Ionia eons ago. Some say it’s a problem in itself because it acts as a Deus Ex Machina – I will disagree with that in that it makes sense, and the pool adds to the narrative.

I imagine the reason why Riot put her to sleep, from a narrative perspective, is because they didn’t want her to be a part of the Noxian invasion. That’s understandable given she’s a massive powerhouse and could have influenced the war too easily. But it does leave us with Syndra existing in a state where she has no impact on anything, and her lack of agenda make it hard to know whatever’s gonna be next for her.


#####Kayle and Morgana

Kayle’s lack of positive portrayal

So that’s the biggest complaint I’ve seen when Kayle is mentioned. I don’t disagree with that. I think her lore is fine as it is. I personally don’t have a problem with her almost burning a city out of rage as it makes her realize her emotions are a problem.

My issue is that she has very little positive portrayal. Similarly to Syndra earlier, she does lack some positive traits. Well, in her lore anyway. Thanks to the AMA, we know a bit more about Kayle’s positive traits. But it would have been nice to have more of those in her bio, where she’s always depicted as an extremist, even though she did fight to protect Demacia.

Morgana’s missing archetype

This one is more of a personal thing but I think it deserves a mention.

Morgana, in the old lore anyway, was a powerful witch who had dabbled in dark stuff in order to get more power to fight her sister. I understand that Morgana isn’t as extreme as Oldgana, so the dark art stuff being gone is fine-ish.

However, Morgana doesn’t feel like she’s a witch anymore. She has innate Celestial powers, but she resents those. And while you could argue she may have dabbled in Spiritual and Elemental magics (and trust me I hope that’s the case), we have no idea whether or not she has. As far as I am concerned, she went from powerful witch to rejecting magic.

And again, this would be fine if she had not been a witch in the first place. But I feel like it’s a part of her that is missing. Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like resenting your powers and being a witch (as in, learning magic and casting curses and hexes) are incompatible. I really hope I’ll be proven wrong, tho!

A lack of appearance

This is a rather common complaint. Kayle and Morgana’s release brought us three stories. The Canticle of the Winged Sister, which is good, Prayer to a Crumbling Shrine, which is good, and In the Fires of Justice, which is good. The problem? These three stories together don’t give us anything about Kayle and Morgana themselves.

The Canticle is really cool (Doom and Iceborn, I’m watching you :)), it has a really eloquent use of words and overall is good to read. But it’s a major retelling of K&M’s bios.

Prayer to a Crumbling Shrine and In the Fires of Justice are also cool legends. But that’s the whole problem. They are legends. We haven’t seen Kayle and Morgana’s actual selves at all. They are good stories, but I’m unsure if they are good as color stories. We know how Demacians view K&M, but we don’t get a taste of the actual K&M. Which leads to the last issue…

What have Kayle and Morgana been doing?

Now that’s a problem that is general to immortal characters. For the last millenia, Kayle and Morgana have been absent from Demacia (Morgana’s there but she hasn’t showed up).

Presumably, Kayle has been training in the Celestial Realm to fulfil her legacy to the Aspect of Justice. She’s not the one I’m worried about for this. She has a solid agenda, so it’s not too hard to imagine what she’s been up to.

Morgana, on the other hand… Her sole purpose, I feel, is Kayle. More specifically, being angry at Kayle. Whether she’s been preparing for her return by learning magic rito pls, or just crying in her forest is a big question mark.

Overall, the lack of info regarding what they’ve been up to and what they are doing is mildly annoying. Especially since I doubt they’ll make any appearance any time soon. But hey, who knows, I might be wrong!


Phew! So that’s it! Feels good to put all this on paper (screen?). I surprisingly wrote less things than I thought, which is good… I think? Well anyway! Let me know what you think about these three’s lores!

Ah, and of course, silly poll down there!

27 Comments

GreenLore12/10/2019, 11:10:28 AM7 votes

Kinda agree with Syndra, though that always felt like a problem with her character. The way her lore builds her up, I feel like she should be a major player in Ionia, but she has no connections to anyone and her goals seem kinda hazy.

I also think that Syndras fanbase might be a problem here. I've seen some people get extremely defensive when it comes to Syndra here on the boards, so I fear that Riot might hesitate to rewrite Syndra too much(or add a lot), because it'll likely end rubbing her fans the wrong way. Diana is the only champ that had such a zealous fanbase here on the boards and her new lore feels like it was made specifically for those, as it painted Diana in a way more positive light.

When it comes to Kayle and Morgana I agree that their lores depict Kayle a bit too evil, but also that Morganas lore depicts her in a far too positive light. Yes her idea of redeeming criminals instead of killing them is actually quite noble, but so far her view isn't really depicted as a problem like Kayles.

I do agree that Morgana doesn't feel like a witch anymore, but I'd argue that this isn't a problem, as Morganas primary archetype was always that of a "fallen angel", which she still has. Her being also a witch, was kinda odd and to be honest I feel like Riot could make a better witch-champ eventually.

And yeah Morgana feels similar to Nasus in that she is apparently an immortal who spent the last centuries sulking and doing nothing until their sibling gets active again. I also wonder why Morgana has 6 wings even though she rejects her celestial origins, while Kayle has seemingly to work for her additional wings...

Overall however I feel like the problems of Kayle and Morgana stem more from the fact that riot hasn't decided to continue their lores and not because of a fundamental flaw in their lore or character.

Blue Shift12/10/2019, 10:58:07 AM7 votes

Back in the old seasons I played Kayle a lot, probably my #3 most played champion in the game. I always thought she had one of the coolest themes being somewhat of a protector or guardian of peace, punishing those who act against it with righteousness.

The new Kayle feels more like a corrupt cop just going around beating everyone that doesn't kneel during an anthem. Her voice lines are so aggressive and ruthless and I was never really a fan of her anymore once I found that out.

It is like 20-30% of the reason I don't play the new Kayle, I cannot stand her personality.

GelsominoKiller12/10/2019, 1:18:21 PM5 votes

In my opinion the most glaring flaw in Kayle's character is her appearance.

I just can't get over the armored leggings. Not that I dislike fit women in tight dresses, but in this case this attractiveness is extremely detrimental to everything Kayle is supposed to embody.

Nothing speaks "ironclad justice from above" like a good old cameltoe.

I guess a winged figure in an heavy, scintillating armor and an inflexible sentence coming out of a faceless helm is fine in order to deliver the concept, but doesn't sell enough skins...

BoringLittleF12/10/2019, 2:21:43 PM4 votes

I like the story of Syndra because it kinda cements the Ionia's total inability to deal with complicated matters.

Syndra A child is abused and neglected by her own family, has a lot of negative emotions that lead to powerful magic, is handed over by her family to the first stranger willing to get them rid of her? She feels betrayed by her teacher because he lied to her and revealed that her temple was meant to be her prison until she dies of old age? Needs someone who would show her care and understanding in addition to discipline and self-control? Nah, let's just put her into stasis and make her go through her childhood abuse over and over again in her sleep to punish her for being so angry due to all abuse and neglect.

LeeSin A boy is talented and prideful? Okay, I guess making him do chores without actually explaining the dangers of pride and arrogance would suffice. Oh, he fucked up because we didn't explain shit? Better banish him, lol.

Yasuo A village idiot kills an elder, even though he was supposed to guard him and had literally no reason to kill him? Eh, who needs a trial and investigation anyways?

Jhin A psycho who killed lots of people in the most sadistic and disgusting way possible has been caught? Let's send him to prison, where he will be enjoying a 3-course meal and painting/sculpturing classes. Yeah, it's not fair to all the people he murdered and their grieving families, but at least our hands are clean!

Der Lindwurm12/10/2019, 3:36:10 PM3 votes

I get that Morgana's new lore was some kind of attempt to elevate her position and indulge everyone who'd been arguing the whole time that maybe Kayle really was the "bad" one, but it still came off as a big downgrade in my opinion. It made so much more sense for her to be the younger sister who felt overshadowed all her life and became vengeful. She did need some more voice lines and fleshing out, but I miss the calm smugness of her old laugh. I had accepted that she was a bit quiet compared to other champions. Now she never shuts up and most of it sounds like whining. Now instead of doing what she wants even if she's punished for it, she seems kind of desperate and confused.

Leona is SO HOT12/10/2019, 12:41:02 PM1 votes

i dont think that she wants to destroy ionia but am not sure , the last time i read syndra lore was when riot changed it to the dream pool thingy .

as for her personality she doesnt give me the "am very angry" feel but more like "am power hungry and no one will stop me" , she just feels like someone who lost her self in the ecstasy of power and keep wanting more by whatever means necessary.

but i agree her voice lines are short and a bit lacking in spirit i just hope they dont change it too much like what they did with aatrox (i still dont like his voice line)

Jacksin12/10/2019, 4:07:18 PM1 votes

I heavily agree with Kayle and Morgana not having a real explanation with what they've been doing all this time. This is a problem that some old characters have been suffering from, like Jax. 3000 years of doing nothing, just chilling lol.

Beacon Academy12/10/2019, 9:39:28 PM1 votes

Burritos aren't potentially as messy as tacos tho :/

SSmotzer12/10/2019, 10:08:14 PM1 votes

The reason behind Syndra's bad story is easy, she needs a relaunch. She was made just before Riot created their lore team. So, as of now, she doesn't really have a proper place in the lore, at least not until her inevitable relaunch.


And, the thing about Kayle and Morgana is, their story is not done. Kayle has yet to be redeemed, and Morgana has not yet truly fallen.

It's my theory that Morgana's chains, which are somehow containing her celestial power, are actually a Darkin vessel, and the same powers that are suppressing the Darkin are what Morgana is using to suppress her powers. When Varus comes to Demacia to free his sister, Kayle will talk a big game about how Morgana is no different than the Darkin, but she won't be able to bring herself kill her, despite Morgana's willingness to sacrifice herself to stop the Darkin.

That is when Kayle and Morgana will be pulled into Valeeva, the Darkin of Vengeance. Just like how Varus is torn between human and Darkin from the love between Kai and Valmar, Valeeva will be torn between Darkin and Divinity from the sisterly love between Kayle and Morgana.


I just wonder how that will translate to gameplay. Like maybe how Kayle Ascends as she levels, Morgana will be corrupted by Valeeva as she levels, and then when they are both at level 16 they fuse, like Yuumi, but permanent, or at least until they die. Or it could be a Cho'Gall thing, where they fuse in champion select, and over the game the two players controlling Valeeva can decide whether Valeeva remains in control, or if Kayle and Morgana reclaim control, like with Kayn.

AnotherPurple37912/11/2019, 5:19:41 AM1 votes

I agree with everything you said about Syndra. I do understand why Riot would want to take her out of the Noxian invasion, and I think they did that in the most graceful way possible, but it does leave her in a massive vacuum as a result. A short story from her perspective would probably fix almost all of her problems in regards to her personality and goals, but in order to get her out of the vacuum, there's going to be more interactions between her and everyone else. Maybe the upcoming Ionian juggernaut will have some words for her? It might be small, but it would be something.

As regards to Kayle and Morgana, I agree that Kayle needs a more positive portrayal. I think Riot was trying to aim for that, but ultimately fell short and just made her seem overzealous and cruel and downright unlikeable, especially compared to Morgana, who I think has a lot of sympathy from the narrative.

But I don't really think Morgana's prime archetype is supposed to be a witch. She's mostly been a fallen angel, and I think she continues to uphold that archetype. Plus, if the story "Prayer to a Crumbling Shrine" is supposed to reflect what she really is like, then it shows that Morgana hasn't completely sworn off of magic? I guess that if you have no way to get rid of it, might as well use it to your liking? Also, I think it's been said that Morgana's magic is still celestial, just corrupted and darkened due to her rejection of divinity. I doubt she's using spiritual and elemental magic, and to be honest I hope that's not the case. I think that would be too out of place.

To be honest, I don't mind Kayle and Morgana not showing up yet in physical form. It retains the fact that they have become legends within Demacia, and it builds up for the time they both eventually come back. My only issue about this is that we don't know exactly where the heck Morgana is. Kayle we know is at Targon, but Morgana is... wandering around Demacia? On the edge of its borders? Retaining secrecy? Secretly answering a selected few? It's unclear.

Also, voted for burritos. I can't eat tacos without making a mess.

Mcmxcix12/12/2019, 5:42:21 PM1 votes

Morgana wasn't a witch in her old story ... she was a fallen Angel aka Ame Damme, on which she went to find other source to fight her sister and her stupid goal aka "justice".

Morgana wasn't evil in her OLD and she's not evil in her NEW lore either. Old Morgana had an amazing personality, the new Morgana has literally none, she's just a ????? and !!!!!!! towards Demacians and that's it, old Morgana knew what to say. Old Morgana had an amazing animation and concept, the new one is blatantly pathetic and she looks like an Adult Sex Toy, and let's not talk about her ... wings ... Tail?!

Back to her old Lore, she fought Kayle due to the fact that she was a FANATIC and an Extremist to the point she smite her Sister 'cause she showed her other aspects of life and listen to reason, but hey ... "Justice" shall prevail. She's a Ame Damme and she caught a glance to the Shadow on which she took it 'cause it was Logical that Darkness ∅ Light and vice-versa(depends on the situation).

Now let's talk about Kayle, her Old model was Ok'ish and i loved her old Full Plate armor ... now she's in a 70% Spandex and some lame ass Armor designed to show us what? Her old Lore was like in her Sister's case better than the new one and she didn't lack Personality like the new one ... now she's like GAREN but FEMALE. Her old dance was pathetic, her new dance is even more r%%%%%ed(don't you dare rito delete this post 'cause i use true words) than her old one.

The only good thing about new Kayle is her Animation and Overall skins rework and that's it.

Again, Morgana wasn't and will never be a WITCH, she's a AME DAMME and she was(STILL?) is amazing if they will revert her Model to the Old one. Kayle on the other Hand, she sucked backt then, she sucks now. Kayle old Abilities were amazing, you could play SUPPORT with her, now she's useless or little broken depending on the team composition.

Morgana > Kayle, any day, any week, any other future reworks, the only thing will make me be displeased and i am displeased with her is her Stupid Passive and Her NEW ADULT SEX TOY MODEL in game + her ... wings? ... TAIL!?