Overwatch's universe feels cohesive and deep but League feels disjointed and shallow

Darrosh Jewfist·7/29/2016, 9:17:16 AM·8 votes·2,864 views

Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion and I have no formal training or education in this topic.

Overwatch's universe feels really neat. It feels really alive. And after coming back to League, and looking at League's universe and Kled... it just feels miles apart in terms of presentation. I wanted to express why I think OW is an example of a universe that League should aspire to be and what OW does right and what League can learn from it.

Before we start that, I want to go into why OW is a good model for League. Both games have a lot in common. Both are multiplayer only games featuring a bunch of champions/heroes fighting each other on a map. Like League, the matches in OW really have no bearing on the plot in the game. Both feature a diverse cast of heroes with different backgrounds. Overwatch is about an organization meant to keep the peace. League, pre-Retcon, was pretty much the same premise with the Institute of War. Finally, both games make use of diverse media (videos, comics, music) to present the worlds these champions/heroes live in.

So what does Overwatch do really well?

  • There's a consistent theme.

This is probably the biggest praise I can heap onto Overwatch. It's like Team Fortress 2/The Incredibles. There's a sense of Pixar or Big Hero Six. That's a lot of what I feel with Overwatch. The cartoon-y, Saturday morning feel of the show lets it hit comedic strides and darker tones.

  • There's a sense of place.

The world of Overwatch is very clearly defined. You've got techno gangs. You've got civil unrest because of societal changes with the robot things. You still got ghettos and pristine cities. It also helps that OW is set in an alt. future Earth which gives people a lot of mental images when you say words like Egypt, or the Omnic invasion of Russia or something. Still, the world comes into its own. Any of the promo story vids showcases the world in something similiar to ours. League doesn't have that same sense of place. Demacia and Noxus are places - and the culture is so generically described as Demacian's Rigid but Good and Noxians Strong but Bad. Now I know there are nuances to this dynamic, but it doesn't change that Demacia and Noxus are really just caricatures of what they should be.

The nuances in League aren't well explored or developed. Most of time it's in a gigantic wall of text short story in an expanded bio. Like, Azir's harem sounds neat - too bad that's literally just a few lines in his bio and he makes no mention or reference to his harem in any other media. Too bad we don't have a sense as to what the dynamics and personal relationships are of Azir Birdman and his twenty wives/concubines. Do they like each other? Do they stay out of each other's way? Are these wives/concubines treating each other well?

Then you OW. You got a vid of Tracer watching a gathering trying to unite humans and Omnics living together peacefully despite the backdrop of war and poverty. There's even suggested robot x human relationships. There's a monk robot dude (yeah, I can imagine League making a champ off that same premise) calling for peace and gets assassinated.

This 4 minute video, most of it dominated by action, fills us in on so much of the world. We know there's a conflict. We see the results of this conflict - the poverty, the damage, the scarred relationships. We see people tired and wanting it to end and we also see there are people who don't want this conflict to end. So much of the world is explained and developed.

It feels like there's an actual vision going on.

  • Characters actually interact with each other.

This is a massive problem in League. Virtually all of the League champions, especially the newer ones, live in bubbles away from each other. There's over 120+ champions in League yet we've only seen just a handful of interactions. Some good, some bad. Most of these interactions happen in short stories. Contrast that to OW where you got interactions in comics, videos, etc... You know Tracer and Winston are friends. You see pictures of the heroes in OW celebrating holidays or graduations.... it feels like these heroes are actual characters and not shadows of characters like Kled. Kled has personality. He's a Noxian nationalist. But hell if I know what his relationship with other Noxians and non-Noxians really are. Does he drink with Darius and Draven? Does he flirt with Katarina?

That'll probably have to he answered in some developer Q&A which is a shame. In OW, we see pictures and files (sometimes littered in the maps themselves) of characters keeping tabs on each other or hanging out for Halloween. We have strong evidence from the GAME ITSELF to suggest there's relationships going on in the backdrop. Which brings me to the last point...

  • Characters feel like actual characters.

Okay. I get it. League of Legends is about LEGENDS. That's why we have all these mythical creatures like Aurelion Sol and Kalista to legendary beasts like Rek'Sai to legendary warriors like Kled recently. Unfortuntely, these characters aren't developed well. They're like an inch deep. They basically have some kind of one-track personality and that's it. Rek'Sai mad. Kalista mad. Jihn Mad. Azir SHURIMA. These champions have pretty much nothing going on in their lives. All that drives them in their single minded vengeance or goal. They don't feel like actual realistic or complex sentinent beings. Now in some cases, like Bard, it's understandable. But Riot just keeps pumping out all these flat one dimensional characters out. They're so ridiculously powerful and arrogant it's hard to find them interesting outside of aesthetics. There's so much potential for interaction to build some sense of depth, but it's hard to imagine any of these characters ever interacting with others in a meaningful way. Hell, Burning Tides and Shadows and Fortune had the most champion-to-champion interactions and focused mainly on the mortal champs like GP, MF, Lucian, and Olaf.

In the end, OW's world is a lot more neat than League. It's got laughs. It gots darks. It goes heroes. It feels much more vivid and interesting. It feels like OW had a unified vision behind it. League just looks like a mish-mash of concepts thrown together and being forced to work rather than feeling like a cohesive, united universe.

33 Comments

Verxint7/29/2016, 10:25:45 AM7 votes

Except Overwatch still does the same fundamental thing League does. They don't have any lore for the actual gameplay. You can have Junkrat, Reaper, Winston, and Tracer fighting Widow, Roadhog, Soldier, and Mercy. That doesn't make any sense.

This is just my opinion but setting lore up like that makes it hard for me to actually care much about it. It makes it more like seasoning instead of part of the meal.

GreenLore7/29/2016, 11:52:54 AM7 votes

As much as I like Overwatch,I wholeheartly disagree with you.

There's a sense of place.

You say factions like Noxus and Demacia are more like caricatures of what they are supposed to be and while I agree that these 2 need to be fleshed out a bit more,you also overlook stuff like Talon(no not this guyTalon ) from OW,who are pretty much cliche villains,being evil for appearantly no reason.

And largely the world of Overwatch seems so fleshed out simply because it is based on the real-life world,so far Ow didn't do much to flesh out its world itself.

Also you complain how Azirs Harem isn't fleshed out,but is Overwatch really different in that regard? I mean we have Meis friend's,McCrees gang members or the former Ow members who are all nothing more than background characters who don't even have a name most of the time(most notably Gerard Lacroix who is dead and thus unlikely to ever become a character,his whole characterization is pretty much "he was strong and got killed by his brainwashed wife")

Characters actually interact with each other.

Well this also happens in LoL. I mean Taric was sent to Targon by Garen,Taliyah was trained by Yasuo and met Sivir&Nasus who were attacked by Xerath,meanwhile Bilgewater was attacked by the undeads,etc. Its just that LoL has so many more characters and multiple storylines going on whereas Ow largely focuses on the Overwatch-organization and their enemies. Ow and LoL have 2 different kinds of stories and it makes sense that LoL characters are at least somewhat more distanced than Overwatchs.

Characters feel like actual characters.

Again I feel like Ow isn't that much better when it comes to this. I mean Mei's friends and teammates all froze to death,with mei barely surviving her cryostasis and despite the fact that she is upbeat and making ice-puns all the time....

Meanwhile you write off champs like Jhin as one dimensional. I mean yes Jhin is a mad killer,but he is also depressed,finding only joy when he kills,not feeling anything otherwise and if you listen to his VO closely then you know that deep down he knows that he is a monster,he wants to stop,but he can't and his whole "artist"-thing is his way of justifying his actions to himself. Compare that to Widowmaker who is simply "a woman who loved her husband and was then brainwashed to be evil"

OurLestrade7/29/2016, 9:31:29 AM5 votes

Overwatch is still very new with 1/6th of the characters, and LOL's got the awkward lore rework going on. The release lore was pretty cohesive :P

Ebonmaw Dragon7/30/2016, 1:07:02 AM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3LBBE6pL,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-29T09:17:16.971+0000)

  • Theres a sense of place.

The world of Overwatch is very clearly defined.

Its Earth, but in a future... you cant compare the "Universe" of Overwatch with the one in League of Legends... Its obvious that the "The world of Overwatch is very clearly defined"... BECAUSE ITS BASED ON THE REAL WORLD.

Beyond Legends7/29/2016, 9:37:43 AM3 votes

...do you realize how much blizzard delay their shit just to do planning and how old blizzard is.

Seriously go cry somwhere else.

Maximum Morde7/29/2016, 11:34:38 AM2 votes

I like Overwatch cause of Mei. She's one cool chick.

http://2.media.dorkly.cvcdn.com/80/62/34802d61631a69dd1bede1648def5632.gif

Slack King7/31/2016, 12:05:24 AM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=3LBBE6pL,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-29T09:17:16.971+0000)

Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion and I have no formal training or education in this topic.

Overwatch's universe feels really neat. It feels really alive. And after coming back to League, and looking at League's universe and Kled... it just feels miles apart in terms of presentation. I wanted to express why I think OW is an example of a universe that League should aspire to be and what OW does right and what League can learn from it.

Before we start that, I want to go into why OW is a good model for League. Both games have a lot in common. Both are multiplayer only games featuring a bunch of champions/heroes fighting each other on a map. Like League, the matches in OW really have no bearing on the plot in the game. Both feature a diverse cast of heroes with different backgrounds. Overwatch is about an organization meant to keep the peace. League, pre-Retcon, was pretty much the same premise with the Institute of War. Finally, both games make use of diverse media (videos, comics, music) to present the worlds these champions/heroes live in.

So what does Overwatch do really well?

  • There's a consistent theme.

This is probably the biggest praise I can heap onto Overwatch. It's like Team Fortress 2/The Incredibles. There's a sense of Pixar or Big Hero Six. That's a lot of what I feel with Overwatch. The cartoon-y, Saturday morning feel of the show lets it hit comedic strides and darker tones.

  • There's a sense of place.

The world of Overwatch is very clearly defined. You've got techno gangs. You've got civil unrest because of societal changes with the robot things. You still got ghettos and pristine cities. It also helps that OW is set in an alt. future Earth which gives people a lot of mental images when you say words like Egypt, or the Omnic invasion of Russia or something. Still, the world comes into its own. Any of the promo story vids showcases the world in something similiar to ours. League doesn't have that same sense of place. Demacia and Noxus are places - and the culture is so generically described as Demacian's Rigid but Good and Noxians Strong but Bad. Now I know there are nuances to this dynamic, but it doesn't change that Demacia and Noxus are really just caricatures of what they should be.

The nuances in League aren't well explored or developed. Most of time it's in a gigantic wall of text short story in an expanded bio. Like, Azir's harem sounds neat - too bad that's literally just a few lines in his bio and he makes no mention or reference to his harem in any other media. Too bad we don't have a sense as to what the dynamics and personal relationships are of Azir Birdman and his twenty wives/concubines. Do they like each other? Do they stay out of each other's way? Are these wives/concubines treating each other well?

Then you OW. You got a vid of Tracer watching a gathering trying to unite humans and Omnics living together peacefully despite the backdrop of war and poverty. There's even suggested robot x human relationships. There's a monk robot dude (yeah, I can imagine League making a champ off that same premise) calling for peace and gets assassinated.

This 4 minute video, most of it dominated by action, fills us in on so much of the world. We know there's a conflict. We see the results of this conflict - the poverty, the damage, the scarred relationships. We see people tired and wanting it to end and we also see there are people who don't want this conflict to end. So much of the world is explained and developed.

It feels like there's an actual vision going on.

  • Characters actually interact with each other.

This is a massive problem in League. Virtually all of the League champions, especially the newer ones, live in bubbles away from each other. There's over 120+ champions in League yet we've only seen just a handful of interactions. Some good, some bad. Most of these interactions happen in short stories. Contrast that to OW where you got interactions in comics, videos, etc... You know Tracer and Winston are friends. You see pictures of the heroes in OW celebrating holidays or graduations.... it feels like these heroes are actual characters and not shadows of characters like Kled. Kled has personality. He's a Noxian nationalist. But hell if I know what his relationship with other Noxians and non-Noxians really are. Does he drink with Darius and Draven? Does he flirt with Katarina?

That'll probably have to he answered in some developer Q&A which is a shame. In OW, we see pictures and files (sometimes littered in the maps themselves) of characters keeping tabs on each other or hanging out for Halloween. We have strong evidence from the GAME ITSELF to suggest there's relationships going on in the backdrop. Which brings me to the last point...

  • Characters feel like actual characters.

Okay. I get it. League of Legends is about LEGENDS. That's why we have all these mythical creatures like Aurelion Sol and Kalista to legendary beasts like Rek'Sai to legendary warriors like Kled recently. Unfortuntely, these characters aren't developed well. They're like an inch deep. They basically have some kind of one-track personality and that's it. Rek'Sai mad. Kalista mad. Jihn Mad. Azir SHURIMA. These champions have pretty much nothing going on in their lives. All that drives them in their single minded vengeance or goal. They don't feel like actual realistic or complex sentinent beings. Now in some cases, like Bard, it's understandable. But Riot just keeps pumping out all these flat one dimensional characters out. They're so ridiculously powerful and arrogant it's hard to find them interesting outside of aesthetics. There's so much potential for interaction to build some sense of depth, but it's hard to imagine any of these characters ever interacting with others in a meaningful way. Hell, Burning Tides and Shadows and Fortune had the most champion-to-champion interactions and focused mainly on the mortal champs like GP, MF, Lucian, and Olaf.

In the end, OW's world is a lot more neat than League. It's got laughs. It gots darks. It goes heroes. It feels much more vivid and interesting. It feels like OW had a unified vision behind it. League just looks like a mish-mash of concepts thrown together and being forced to work rather than feeling like a cohesive, united universe.

You mean overwatch, the game where the story is irrelevant and facts dont matter? You hop into matches with archenemies fighting together to stop their allies, for no fkng point what so ever.

Oh reaper and a soldier 76 on my team? cool theyre best buds again

Reksai isnt mad, she is like moby dicks white whale. Azir was an emperor that was full of himself, then learned humility. Kalista is a vengeful spirit. Jhin is an artist, death is art.

Maybe these ideas are just above you, which doesnt mean youre dumb. You just arent that kind of thinker

Warlord Dienekes7/29/2016, 5:41:47 PM1 votes

I'd agree on some things, Overwatch's lore is much better integrated into the game. There is an actual consistent timeline, all the characters are related to a few crises and what happened after those crises one of the most interesting things they actually have an understanding of the social and economic implications of the omnic crisis. I mean, damn, you don't often find that level of understanding in a video game story. The closest that LoL ever got was understanding that slaves were a necessity of ancient cultures, but then just sort of freeing them anyway without an explanation of why it was suddenly possible.

Even the game modes have a story to them, Hanamura is an assault upon the established ninja/mafia clan. Gibraltar is about establishing the Overwatch satellite relay. There is depth there if you look for it. Summoner's Rift is nothing. Dominion was something, but that was retconned away. Howling Abyss is weird, there is lore there, but it's all potential things to happen or have happened with no reason for the fight to be there presently.

Then we get to the lores of LoL themselves and they're even further disjointed. Down to the technology available, simply put Graves's beast of a shotgun should not exist alongside Xin Zhao's Qin dynasty style armor. And if we want to go further and really analyze things, the Rakkor culture doesn't make any sense, Jarvin, Garen, and Leona have armor that is simply horribly designed. And if you really think about it in terms of what actually matters, nothing many of the characters will ever accomplish will have anything near an importance when compared to the stories that feature the Ascended, the Targonians, and Sol.

But all those problems are all part of league's charm. It does not make a consistent story. Hell it can't even create a consistent single culture. Bilgewater? Why the hell does everyone act like they're from both the 17th century Caribbean Sea and the 18th century American frontier? The environments are so completely exclusionary that any style that fits with one would not fit in the other. League isn't trying to make a grand story. But they are making vignettes and mixes of weird and fun things and seeing if they can make it enjoyable. And, honestly, the results are hit and miss, but they're creating this world that is meant to be fun and enjoyable and not to be so thoroughly scrutinized, and that's as legitimate a method of storytelling as any other.

Unless of course they are actually trying to create a single consistent overarching story, which stands up to scrutiny. Which, if they are, they should stop. They're not good at it.

But accepting that they're not making a grand consistent story doesn't mean we can't be critical of their efforts in other ways. Yes, they're a relatively new company, but storytelling has been around forever. Hiring a group of writers and getting them to work together has been implemented by games, movies, and shows for decades, saying Riot is new doesn't really make sense as a rebuttal to criticism unless they literally have not hired a single writer whose worked in games before.

And on a personal level if you read and understand what a story is trying to do or say you can think of what felt weak and strong. There is a difference between a writer not following a storyline that you wish they would follow and simply writing bad fiction. Personally, I'd say Riot has done both of those things. They've also written some pretty good things as well, I really liked the Bilgewater event. Other times character motivations are muddled and disjointed, or characters are completely rewritten baring no similarity to what they were before, and that is bad writing. The trick is figuring out what the writers are going for, where they excel and where they fall flat. Because everyone fails from time to time. Even fiction writing giants like Tolkien, Gemmell, Martin, or King have weaknesses that deserve to be critiqued, and let's be honest with ourselves, Riot is not at that level yet.

Alright, I think I've insulted everyone enough for now.

Immortal spax7/30/2016, 1:18:55 AM1 votes

Thank you cpt. Obviois, thank you for telling us that OW is better than lol in every aspect.

If OW was free lol would ne desert now.

FloRaider427/30/2016, 7:17:02 AM1 votes

Sure Overwatch is more believeable, but mainly because it takes place in our world giving us an easy way to understand characters and lore. It also has a far easier time concering characters, since pretty much all of them come from two generations (pre and post Omnic-Crisis), have pretty much the same powers (except maybe Reaper, but we know little about his) and are all very human in character (excluding Bastion). Compare that to a world created from scratch with multiple races, forms of powers, and lore reworks and it's clear why OW has an easier time.

That said I think argueing is kinda pointless, considering that we all have different tastes considering stories and worldbuilding (The Omnic crisis makes no sense, unless someone ignored the three laws of robotics... again)