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Kayn Vs Rhaast who wins canonically?

DoomRPG·1/1/2018, 1:06:18 AM·4 votes·12,525 views

I believe that the answer is Kayn. For a few reasons actually I believe that Kayn would if the story ever continues would defeat Rhaast. The first and most obvious point is that when Rhaast wins he seems to suggest that Kayn still exists. "Kayn weeps in the oblivion between worlds, Idiot." While Kayn suggests that Rhaast is truly destroyed. "I bested the darkin, now the plan continues" "The darkin is gone, our enemies are next" "I have snuffed out the darkin, who dares stand against me" "In death, Rhaast now serves me" All imply that Rhaast is killed when he loses the struggle. While Rhaast implies that Kayn is still alive in SOME manner. What's more Kayn in victory sees Rhaast as a mere roadblock while Rhaast seems to at least have some measure of respect "I have broken the great Kayn, you think you can defeat me?" This seems to apply that Kayn's "will" is actually **GREATER ** then Rhaast's.

What's more Rhaast gains power when Kayn fight's melee champions which would include other assassins and generally beefy tanks or fighters. While tanks and fighters are of course traditionally the bane of assassins it should be noted that Kayn is either an older teenager or a young adult (we don't know his age exactly but he's around that age.) So not only is he at an even bigger physical disadvantage against fighters and tanks, but also other assassins. He may be a talented fighter but he cant beat assassins champions due to a lack of experience. Rhaast wins when Kayn is at a fundamental DISADVANTAGE. While Kayn is fighting the less protected mages and ADC's (AKA what would be his natural targets.) Despite their playstyle Rhaast needs to subvert Kayn (something he is likely unfamiliar with as a concept, Rhaast never inspired armies like aatrox, he just kills shit) Rather then brute forcing it.

What's more is that Kayn is heading toward Ionia. If he was say stuck in the middle of Noxus then Rhaast could potentially possess Kayn during a moment of weakness. Which would be more likely if he was legit surrounded by enemies. However once Kayn get's to Ionia and the Order of Shadow's what's Rhaast going to do? Kayn while seeking to become the leader of the order of shadows he still seems to respect Zed to some extent. "It should not have come to this, Zed" "You taught me too well master" "Together Zed, we are unstoppable" It seems that Kayn does not intend to forcefully take control of the order of Shadows from Zed. In fact it seems more like "Take Rhaast to the Order of Shadows. Then kill him and take full control of the Blade of Millenium. This will impress Zed so much that he will grant me leadership." Since none of his actions that seem likely would A. Empower Rhaast or B. Leave Kayn Vulnerable it seems likely that lore wise Kayn should win the battle killing Rhaast and becoming the Shadow Assassin

So that's just what I think. What about you? Give your thoughts in the comments below I'd like to see them!

35 Comments

Ebonmaw Dragon1/1/2018, 1:42:02 AM5 votes

I feel that, if Rhaast gets to much power over the body of Kayn, Zed would kill him before the darkin would have a chance of taking complete control and then destoy the darkin weapon because that was the initial plan.

So... basically is not Kayn vs Rhaast... is Rhaast vs Kayn and the Order of Shadows.

Jaspers1/2/2018, 12:07:56 PM4 votes

Don't you get it? Rhaast has already won and will only ever win.

Zed sent Kayn and Nakuri to find and destroy the weapon and yet it remains intact, not only that but in the hands of Kayn, who is being influenced by Rhaast. What do you think will happen when Kayn returns to the Order of Shadow and Zed with weapon in hand (and without Nakuri)?

Kayn thinks he's done his master proud, he and his power will lead the Order of the Shadow but he's going to destroy everything with his arrogance. Zed will have to kill Kayn and Kayn will defend himself. If Zed wins, he'll kill Kayn and destroy the weapon. If Kayn wins, no more Order of the Shadow and Kayn becomes more and more Rhaast.

Humble Aatrox1/1/2018, 6:36:06 AM2 votes

Rhaast is immortal nuff said.

Sharjo1/1/2018, 1:30:34 AM2 votes

My personal thoughts on the fight here is that it's skewed in terms of power levels. I'd expect Rhaast to be, as an individual, stronger than Kayn, but Kayn isn't an ordinary human, and Rhaast is encumbered by his imprisonment. It's a depowered darkin vs a powered up human. Mechanics wise I don't think it'll really matter whether Kayn's killing squishies or big bruiser guys in the lore; they'll both become stronger with time. I think that, if the narrative wasn't stacked in Kayn's favour (which it likely is since Kayn's the champion here), then it'd come down to a race between Kayn buffing up himself via training faster than Rhaast can gain strength by feasting off of killings. Basically if huge conflict reaches Ionia's shores again and Kayn has to fight, I figure it'd be Rhaast's opportunity to get free.

Otherwise it'll be Kayn who wins as he can improve himself over feeding Rhaast, though there's also the issue of time playing on Rhaast's side, since he's already corrupted Kayn to a degree, and that means he can keep doing it. If will is all that's a deciding factor, Rhaast has a lot he can work with.

So overall, I figure Kayn's probably gonna win, but I'd prefer it and feel like it'd be far more interesting if Rhaast did.

Sancre1/1/2018, 1:51:31 AM2 votes

I can't help but think that maybe Rhaast isn't dead, because when he dies, he actually say "So this is what dying feels like? Good thing I'm Inmortal!". Does this power only belong to him? because most of the darkin are already dead, but they shouldn't if everyone was inmortal too

GreenLore1/1/2018, 4:43:00 PM2 votes

Overall I think that Rhaast will win initially,but then Kayn will be able to come back eventually in some form,overpower Rhaast and truly destroy him.

Because I can't imagine that Riot will let the chance slip to reunite all the 5 darkin. I mean 2 of the darkin champions are actually working towards reuiniting the 5 darkin,so if Rhaast would loose then this would kinda destroy the main goal of 2 other champions(and possibly all other future darkin champs) and not reuiniting them just feels like a huge waste.

However Kayn is the main focus of the champion,after all the champ isn't called Rhaast or Kayn&Rhaast(though this might have been because of formatting issues,I remember that they had the same problem with Quinn) and he is obviously the protagonist,while Rhaast serves as the antagonist,so it would make sense to have Kayn win in the end. And should Zed die at one point,then it'd be good if Riot established a possible successor for him before his death.(bonus points if Zed actually dies while rescuing Kayn).

Also I wouldn't really count that much on the whole "Rhaast wins if he fights more melee champs"-thing,thats most likely just a gameplay mechanic and not a reflection of the actual lore.

Tesla Effect1/1/2018, 6:50:03 AM1 votes

Depends on what Riot wants to do with the Darkin.

Spideraxe1/1/2018, 3:32:19 AM1 votes

I spoke to DanielZKlein and CoolRadius about who would win, Daniel personally wants Rhaast to win but CoolRadius thinks it's a tie since but are extremely devious and tenacious

Meep Man1/2/2018, 3:19:36 PM1 votes

Well, if we are talking them both as completely separate entities with their own bodies, I would actually say Rhaast would win hands down as Darkin are extremely powerful beings in the lore that used to wage mass chaos over Runeterra without stop. Kayn is skilled, yes, but often times you just can't compete with pure lore power.

If we are talking in the current state, Kayn. Rhaast can't do anything without the dude.

BirdmanBaggins1/3/2018, 11:40:30 AM1 votes

Particularly interesting post and definitely some food for thought. I'll leave my two cents here...

To me, both Kayn and Rhaast are overly dramatic. As opposed to Ornn, who is anti-social and hates to involve himself in any 'dramatic event,' Kayn and Rhaast both seem the types to lament on things. So we're on the same page, I'll use the same quotes you're using.

"I bested the Darkin. Now the plan continues." / "The Darkin is gone, our enemies are next." / "I have snuffed out the Darkin, who dares stand against me?"

These Kayn quotes seem to not be able to agree on what's going on. Is he defeated, or dead? It's reasonable to suggest that he's dead, as the latter two can be interpreted as such, but I think Kayn's just overdramatizing his victory. It's clear that these Darkin think the rest of their kind is dead, which has proven to not be true, and each Darkin revealed has had some method or way of being able to preserve their existence. I'm in firm belief that should Kayn best Rhaast in the internal struggle, that while Rhaast's essence is conquered, it has not yet been obliterated.

Rhaast clearly states that Kayn is caught in some sort of limbo, saying explicitly "Kayn weeps in the oblivion between two worlds. Idiot." I'd like to think that with an impossibly large amount of time and experience that Rhaast boasts, he's also more aware of different 'states' that individuals can be in, such as spiritual worlds or a binary dimension like heaven and hell. Kayn, being human, living on Runeterra and working with the Order of Shadow, may not be as informed of these things, and can only assume one thing: that Rhaast is dead, and that's the end of it.

This is all to better inform that 'conquering the other' isn't as simple as 'killing them.' As to who would win, though? I'm hopeful there isn't an event where a victor is decided canonically, but if there was, I think Rhaast would win regardless of the initial result.

Rhaast lives for violence, for bloodshed. The ultimate gory battle scene is his porn. Regardless of outcome, Rhaast will eventually win because his ultimate goal isn't just his freedom; it's sweet, bloody carnage and massacre, period. There's one specific quote that reinforces this opinion, though many more attack quotes do as well:

Rhaast: "I see your nightmares, do they trouble you?" Kayn: "Not nightmares, plans..."

What Rhaast considered nightmares at first are in fact Kayn's plans, obviously nefarious. This suggests that should Kayn emerge victorious from this internal struggle, he will seize power of the Order of Shadow and begin to cut a swathe of murder and desolation across all who stand in his way... which is exactly what Rhaast wants. Rhaast wins outright if he manages to win the internal struggle, but if Kayn wins, Rhaast eventually wins anyway. His goals are met. It's a matter of preference via vehicle at this point for Rhaast. He'd rather carry it out himself, which is why he bothers with it at all.

The use of in-game mechanics to judge canon outcomes (such as Kayn against tanks) is better not touched, as the idea of a Summoner's Rift game like that is non-canon. The champions and their abilities are definitely canon, but the outcomes and struggles on the Rift aren't. My ass is getting handed to me every time I'm Aurelion Sol against a Teemo in the top lane (I'm not sure why?) but it should be general consensus that the Star Forger is going to utterly obliterate Teemo in pretty much any canonical battle.

One more note: the Darkin are licking their wounds at this stage of lore at the moment. Aatrox's lore will likely get reworded (same concept, just more in-line with what's currently the Darkin program) when he receives his gameplay update (hopefully) later this year. Varus just received a lore update confirming he's a Darkin, and that he wishes to exact revenge for the humans killing off his kind. Varus seems a bit more sentimental than Rhaast, who references Aatrox with vague attachment. Hopefully with a probable VO update as well to our Darkin Blade will we get a better understanding about not only how the Darkin feel about their enemies, but about each other.

Zoezy4/12/2018, 5:31:53 AM1 votes

Well if league of legends had a movie and it involved the reuniting of 5 Darkin (a good, and likely choice), I feel like initially they'd let Rhaast win so that we can at least witness the terror they all bring together. But I feel like Kayn being alive somewhere in Rhaast will ultimately be their downfall. Maybe he'd consume Rhaast in order to become the shadow assassin, and join up with the good guys to fight against the darkin?

With this option, the viewers get to experience both scenarios and both Kayn paths are used to their fullest instead of tossing one. Plus Rhaast winning initially give us a "damn.. Kayn is dead" kinda feel.

Digielf4/12/2018, 8:51:16 AM1 votes

He is one of the Darkin for a reason, also the Darkin transformation is more used and his other one looks more like a side option

Forklift Waifu8/4/2019, 4:50:26 AM1 votes

I'm surprised no one has considered that neither win canonically, but that they develop a mutual respect which turns into cooperation. It seems like the easiest way to maintain his mechanics and keep them in line with the lore as much as possible.

It's likely we will get a continuation of the story when another darkin is released.

MyyDaddyBeatMe11/25/2018, 9:00:16 PM1 votes

guys let us be real for a moment rhaast will win no matter what for a lot reasons most of them is because rhaast is already winning if you pay attention to kayn arm you can see that rhaast already have been corrupted him the only reason he didn't take over his body is because his shadow magic that slowing rhaast from taking him over so rhaast is gonna win but it gonna take long time and two rhaast is immortal demon who can't die and keep recover him self over and over endlessly and he is almost a god in league of legends world but kayn is just a human with no super powers

come on guys who wins

undead immortal demon who have the the strength too destroy the world with insane recovery speed

or

an edgy teen age boy who barely ??

CyberW0lf9/13/2018, 6:43:34 PM

I Disagree, in regard to lore and more specifically the new Darkin lore.

The argument you present gameplay-wise, with Kayn being at a disadvantage against melee bruisers and tanks makes sense, but not from a Lore perspective. Bruisers, Tanks and fighters might be a challenge for Kayn in a fair duel, but Kayn is an assassin: trained to pick unfair fights and kill his enemies swiftly in the blink of an eye. Rhaast on the other hand is an ascended being, now trapped in his former weapon: He is (or was) a literal Demigod, so powerful that even the aspects of Targon couldn't truly kill him or his companions (Aatrox and Varus). Although Kayn might have a strong will, Rhaast holds nearly full control of the weapon - Because he is the weapon. Furthermore, i presume Kayn needs to hold the weapon to assert some form of dominance, as evidenced by an in game quote: K: I let you go, and you will die. R: And you will lose. I highly doubt Rhaast would die if Kayn dropped the weapon. After all, Rhaast has been wielded and then dropped before, it says so in the story, The Blade of Millenia. So why is Kayn saying this? Is he bluffing, talking big while he has no way to actually back up the things he's saying? Also, I'm pretty sure Rhaast is referring to the afterlife when saying that ''Kayn now weeps in the abyss between oblivions'', not some sort of ethereal prison. And while he does indeed refer to Kayn as ''The Great Kayn'', he might only be saying that to make himself look even more fearsome - After all, Rhaast beat this ''Great Kayn''.

Summing up- Rhaast is practically immortal for all we know, holds full control over his scythe body and never bluffs or shows any sign of hesitance or lack of confidence in his ability to consume Kayn. I see no way for Kayn to beat Rhaast.

On a completely unrelated note, Rhaast is so incredibly superior to Shadow Assassin Kayn in-game that this contest is silly. Rhaast for life!