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With Irelia's Re-release, I Have a Question About Timelines and the Representation of Champions.

Over Innsmouth·3/22/2018, 10:35:48 AM·11 votes·1,598 views

To be specific, are all the characters in the League representations of themselves within a fixed point in time, or are they all taken from their prime?

For example, Irelia as she exists (as of the rework) appears to be representative of herself during the Noxian Invasion, or very soon after it. Her VO reflects someone battlefield-ready, if not battlefield-present, and talks about the Invasion as if it's current events for her.

In contrast, Swain must very much be representative of himself at least quite a few years after the Invasion, if not more, given that he's suffered the wound he gained in Ionia at Irelia's hands, become one with the demon, has mastered it, has risen to Grand General of Noxus, and is fairly aged.

I use these two as examples since they're the most recent VGUs Riot's given us, meaning they're as up-to-date as we can possibly have with the lore. More importantly, they have tangible, anchored points where they have done things in the lore chronology and have interacted, giving a reference point for us as consumers.

The basis this is that Swain and Irelia have interacted at some point, yet Irelia as she appears seems to be much closer to that point in time than Swain. Based on this, my assumption is that it's a "Champions appear as they were at the height of their power, regardless of the timeline" situation.

However, there are contradictions to this, such as Gangplank's classic state of being a bum sea hobo (who steals flagships from under Noxus's nose) vs his Captain state of being a proud, crime boss-king of Bilgewater. This suggests that the importance of the consistent timeline takes precedence over presenting characters at their prime, but the above interaction with Swain and Irelia - at least if I'm interpreting it correctly - would suggest the opposite.

Perhaps it just works with whatever way best presents the character. Gangplank is ideally shown through a rise-and-fall arc, whereas Irelia is better off just being depicted according to her at her peak.

There's other champions you could bring into question in regards to chronology. How much time has passed between the Invasion and Kayn as he appears to us? Are the Kassadin and Kai'Sa that we see from the same point in time, or different? Is the Malzahar we're seeing the same Malzahar as the one who destroyed Kassadin's home, one from soon after his defection to the Void, or one from the days after Kassadin began his anti-Void crusade? At what point was Warwick created by Singed, and where does the Singed we see fit into the Noxian Invasion?

Even if the chronology isnt in a fixed position, it's still important to fully establish.

Then again, I could be wrong with this assumption, which is why I'm asking, I want to know.

http://www.megabearsfan.net/image.axd/2016/8/DarkSouls-Solaire_time_convoluted.jpg

16 Comments

Epicurus3/22/2018, 12:04:01 PM4 votes

To be specific, are all the characters in the League representations of themselves within a fixed point in time, or are they all taken from their prime?

I doubt it's the first, and Gangplank proves it isn't the second.

I believe the champions are representative of when they are the most interesting from a narrative perspective.

Skarner for example: in his story, he was awakened by the theft of his fellow Brackern crystals, and is now searching for his missing brethren. But we know from Camille's lore that Camille's great-great aunt was involved in their theft, and Camille herself is the great aunt of the current head of Clan Ferros. So either Skarner has done literally nothing for the last five human generations, or Skarner's story is set further in the past compared to Camille's, and we are yet to see what Skarner is doing in the "present" time.

Aurelion Sol, also, doesn't fit in the "present" Runeterra. The last time we say him in the lore was so long ago that the Shuriman sun disc hadn't even been built yet. All we know about Aurelion Sol in the present day is that he's apparently on his way to Runeterra.

Jaspers3/22/2018, 1:37:10 PM2 votes

I would have thought that all champions current looks or how they exist as of the present of Runeterra's universe. Kinda of like a 'this is their last guise' kind of thing. Your war example for Irelia and Swain might be more of 'the war is still going on'.

Some examples, Pantheon as we see him is the latest Aspect's form. In Sol's story, he killed that time's Pantheon as a result of closing a Void rift, that Pantheon was female. The Aspect of Pantheon (or all Aspects) are taken from the latest outward appearance, the one most recent. Nasus and Renekton are the same, if they were to take them from their prime, Nasus would be more glorious and Renekton sane.

The personas we see in game are at the point of time that Runeterra is at, that is their current state. The proof of this is Kayn, he is in transition period just after he has taken up the scythe. Aatrox has long since been in his form, Varus has just taken over his form and gone to find his sister but Kayn according to his story has litterally just picked it up, he hasn't even had time to return to the Shadow Clan with it and 'claim' leadership. Within game he starts as Kayn and then is either influenced enough by Rhaast to taken over or is strong willed enough to purge Rhaast from the weapon.

Kayn will never become either as he is in a fixed state.

Digielf3/22/2018, 10:42:14 AM2 votes

the picture of dark souls explains it, even if some champions are from different timelines it doesn't mean they cant meet or interact with each other

Stars Shaper3/22/2018, 3:07:08 PM2 votes

Yes this is something that should be clarified a bit.

FlameHalbrdOkido3/23/2018, 2:10:56 AM1 votes

In game =/= lore standing (in most cases)

Remember this, becuase it's a real thing

Also GP stole noxian ships before getting taken down and then trying to rebuild himself, not after

Also wait 4 her new lore 2 come up b4 jumping 2 conclusions

Valaran Nara3/22/2018, 6:13:34 PM1 votes

They are anchored within either their time of transition or their time of major influence.

For example, when it comes to representing Lucian and his current story arch, it is preferred for his story to be done and his representitive character to be shown during his battle and story of vengeance.

As for Taliyah, while she may be more in the present (or potentially psuedo past), her greatest moment in the timeline for her current representation is her returning home to protect her people from the Bird Emperor. Because, remember, Taliyah probably spent 1-2 yrs with Yasuo, but her appearance is most likely as she returns to Shurima just as Yasuo's representation is specifically "after" he met Taliyah. The string he uses for his hair was from her.

Because of the lore revamp, GP's main relevance to the story was after his fall which is why his arm is missing and replaced as opposed to him having his current "captain" look. MF's current look is from them NOT switching Captain MF skin to classic. But for the sake of presentation, Classic MF is how she looked in the old lore "before" taking down GP since that has yet to happen. Flirtatious, revealing, and ready to stab you in the back.

So Current Swain is a little bit ahead or closer to the present than Classic Irelia. Swain's appearance is him already having taken control over Noxus and setting up a new political infrastructure. Irelia, as you can tell is very much solidified into "rebel" leader and is still fighting within the war (which ended for Swain some years ago. Hell, we don't even know how soon he got his arm chopped off or which stage of the war they met. She could have became leader within the first 3 months of the invasion and chopped swain's arm off in month 8.)

SanKakU3/22/2018, 9:03:32 PM1 votes

Gangplank may have lost a lot physically, but surely his resilient mind has matured and allowed him to reinvent himself.

I Main Swain3/22/2018, 9:58:40 PM1 votes

i like to think of it like fate stay night and fate unlimited bladeworks, i especially like the idea that they dont even necessarily have to be real and they could be legends or folklore.

Oleandervine3/22/2018, 3:06:07 PM1 votes

Irelia is very much in the "present" as it stands now, the same "present" that Swain is currently in. In her comments to Swain, she tells him that she will take off his other arm, as well as the fact that she mocks him for being a "master tactician" who picks losing fights constantly. Both of these comments anchor Irelia in the present, as she took his arm off during the Ionian Invasion, and is considered Noxus' master tactician.

I think what you're missing here is that Swain has always been older. The Ionian invasion wasn't something from his youth, it was a battle he tried to fight in his recent past. That past had to at least have been 8-10 years ago (based on Kayn's bio that states he was at least 10, and his current appearance, which looks to be 18-20). Considering that we don't have an anchor for Irelia's age at that time, she could easily have been around 16-18, which would put her at her current age now.