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Why does everyone always want a different version of something for their own class?

Rathar Dashing·2/2/2019, 4:57:44 PM·19 votes·9,329 views

I keep seeing posts of people saying things like: "Why can't I have a tank Ardent Censer?" "Why can't I have an AP Death's Dance?" "Why can't I have an HP Tear of the Goddess item?" "Why isn't there an AD/MR version of Zhonya's?" "Why can't I have an AP+AD Warmog's?" "Why don't I have a ranged, AP Tiamat that applies on-hit effects in an AoE?"

Can't certain classes be defined by what they do have, and what they don't? Shouldn't you be forced to make choices for each kind of unique passive you want?

Really, if every class of champion had access to the same tools, there would be no point in making AP and AD distinct at all. Then every class of champion would be able to build to perfectly augment their strengths, and cover their weaknesses. If I want the passive portion of Ardent, I should have to give up something in exchange. Either I take Ardent, and lose out on some of my potential durability, or I get Zeke's, and get a less potent effect. If I want spellvamp, I'll need to plan ahead and take Ravenous Hunter, and still have to stack it up, because if every mage could rush Gunblade passive they would never have to leave lane. If I need lots and lots of mana as a tank, I have many options, I can either get one of the existing Tear items and gain some damage, or I could go into Frozen Heart/Iceborn to gain flat mana, armor and CDR. I could also get Abyssal or RoA to take advantage of the Eternity effect, for more HP and mana.

In some cases, there even already exists a different version of the item, it just looks different because it's designed for a different class. I've already said that Zeke's is basically the tank version of Ardent, but I would also say that IE is the AD version of Rabadon's, Botrk is the AD version of Liandry's, Frozen Mallet is the AD Rylai's, and Statikk Shiv is the ADC version of Luden's. (how come mage items always belong to a name, but AD items have real names?)

Anyway tell me how I'm stupid & stuff and what item YOU would want to have a version of for your main. I want an AP Black Cleaver for Anivia.

33 Comments

HàrrowR2/2/2019, 6:49:48 PM7 votes

Cause of the "grass is always greener on the other side" effect.

Also it's fun to imagine what could be different, i mean it's a changing game and certain champions do change the way they're played over time, for example i hope this new Phantom Dancer goes through to live cause ever since they reworked my Graves into a jg i've been trying to find a way to be as durable and aggressive with other adcs like i could of with him.

Also people have their playstyles and most of the time certain champs will fit into that style but not entirely, for example me loving being a range damage dealer but hate being squishy or not being able to duel, that's why i love playing Vayne and i usually have these item 3046 item 3026 item 3139 in my inventory so i'm harder to blow up.

If i wanted an item made for carries it'd be an ADC version of a black cleaver with less hp and some AS and AD, or the older version of Trinity force where you had crit, just some surviveability in your first item in general

OP Garen Support2/3/2019, 12:19:24 AM5 votes

Remember the old item 3026 ? It was neutral item stolen from AP carries and given to AD carries only.

ModKnightsKemplar2/2/2019, 8:50:49 PM4 votes

I want an AP Black Cleaver for Anivia.

I lol'd.

But really, people are right to point out that the game might be easier to balance if all the items had analogues for multiple classes. That's probably true. Halo is pretty easy to balance, because everyone has access to the exact same tools.

If you do that, you lose a lot of what makes League more interesting that Halo, though, and I think that's the reason that Riot doesn't do it. If you do, it may look to casual observer like you are adding something to the game. It's a new item, right? But you're actually taking some of the complexity of the game away by doing so. That's how I view it.

King Lego2/2/2019, 5:03:44 PM4 votes

Bias. Because bias.

Boatwhistle2/2/2019, 9:57:22 PM3 votes

The reason for having two damage types is because there is defense. Without defense the game would only be who has the most damage, however with just damage and hp the question becomes which is better to get more of. Resistances allow for better immediate scaling and cost efficiency however with diminishing returns after a certain amount, issue being however one has to be definitively better then the other. Having two damage types and resistances for each allows for countering and forces people to weigh options. It makes the game more complex and team oriented as a result.

What has been put in the game over the years has been nothing less then random, just stuff they came up with and adjusted over time. If these different versions of things you have listed existed rather then the things the ideas they are based on, your argument would have just as much merit.

There is an Magic damage variant to black clever though much less bought being wits end, point however is it exists.

AP deaths dance is gun blade. AD zonyas is GA Sion has a built in hp tear of the goddess Pyke has the built in AD warmogs. Mundo and Volibear have the built in magic damage warmogs. Kayle has the built in ranged Tiamat.

Boatwhistle2/2/2019, 10:07:42 PM2 votes

Say what you want but I will never agree the 10 cost effective items split up between tank supports and enchanters is more then enough variety, that's BS. There needs to be more for the champs that call the support role their only home.

Knights Kemplar- "It's a new item, right? But you're actually taking some of the complexity of the game away by doing so. That's how I view it." If you want to call the supports viable item selection complex by any philosophy then I think you need a dictionary.

Shonjl2/2/2019, 8:19:53 PM2 votes

The most common one I hear of is an AP version of Hexdrinker. And to be fair. I agree with it.

Zed rushing Hexdrinker hard fucks AP champs, but AP rushing Seekers isn't even remotely the same, not to mention AP have the negative of if they don't rush Lost Chapter, getting fucked early on due to mage changes ages ago being all about raw mana nowadays instead of regen, Zed doesn't really lose much going Hexdrinker instead of a Dirk.

item 3155 item 3191 Just compare the 2. 20AD 35MR vs 20AP 30AR Seeker without being stacked is lackluster since AD and MR stack are way more effective in lesser amounts. when stacked it becomes 35AP and 45AR, which while a lot of people would go "OHH IT GIVES MORE THAN HEXDRINKER!?!" You have to take into consideration A. It needs to stack to get there, getting 30 CS to max it out, as well as like I said earlier, AD and MR scale way better than AP does. There is a reason why champs that get like 200-300 AD and champs that get like 700+AP usually can do around the same damage. Or getting 1-2 MR items is enough against AP but you need 3-4 against AD.

This is not to take into consideration the passive shield Hexdrinker has which outright avoids 100-200 damage and is passive. I don't blame AP for bitching at all. AD can cry about Zhonyas all they want, but AP don't exlusively have it anymore either due to stupid Stopwatch. So even the one thing AP had unique to them was taken from them.

Boatwhistle2/2/2019, 9:38:23 PM1 votes

yo

Zed genius2/2/2019, 8:02:55 PM1 votes

Surprised this is not mentioned more often, as it is correct. You see people wanting an AP Qss or a idfk AD Nashor's tooth and it's like why would they ever add that

Jimmy Rustles2/2/2019, 7:47:02 PM1 votes

An HP version of Tear of th Goddess...

I have no idea how that would work, but I want it now

Infernape2/3/2019, 1:10:46 AM1 votes

The only thing I think the game needs item wise is a set of items for AP bruisers that cannot be taken by mages (being melee only for example) and cannot be abused by assassins.

Considering Riot want Morde to be one (from the champ roadmap). It makes no sense that he is not going to have the itemisation to be what Riot calls him.

It would also give Riot the chance to actually dial down Diana's burst and actually make her a diver rather than an assassin with no escape.

Glaricion2/3/2019, 2:25:44 AM1 votes

Hourly reminder that AP bruisers need items in general.

[slayer-jinx-catface]

Libido2/3/2019, 10:18:49 AM1 votes

Why cant i have a Shen buff item 3070 Shen item 3070

Vlada Cut2/3/2019, 2:08:48 PM1 votes

Because opinions alter and differ. We aren't one line of machinery to acomplosh the same thing.

IP Masquerena2/3/2019, 2:29:25 PM1 votes

Because the Crystal Scepter was stolen from her: https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Crystal_Maiden

Zeke's Convergence comes from this guy: https://shamanking.fandom.com/wiki/Asakura_Hao

So who knows who Rabadon, Liandry and Luden are, as I won't start a search.

Frog goes moo2/3/2019, 6:27:10 PM1 votes

I actually saw someone ask for a tank version of ardent censor yesterday lmao.

Moody P2/2/2019, 8:18:38 PM1 votes

bruisers need it