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The Open Champion Project

Baxter900··63 votes·8,302 views

#ARCHIVE

What is the Open Champion Project? The Open Champion Project is based on the idea that we, as a community, can work together to create a champion from scratch. This post will cover the creation of a champion from scratch, along with the appropriate game design concepts. Everyone is encouraged to chime in with criticism or ideas throughout the process.

What's with the big ARCHIVE at the top? This was the first post in The Open Champion Project, and thus, this page is no longer active, to see the current page, go to: http://tiny.cc/openchampion

Necessary Legalese So as a community project, we want Riot's support, and we also want them to help us along the way, as they have a better understanding of how to create champions than we do. However, there's a legal problem that prevents them from acknowledging champion ideas or skin ideas. The problem is, upon posting an idea for the first time, the poster legally gains the copyright to it. This means that if Riot acknowledges that they've seen the idea at some point, the poster has legal basis to sue them, even if Riot can prove that they already had the champion in the works well before it was posted. This is the same reason why authors have a policy of "we don't read fanfiction", because while no one has attempted to sue someone yet, it's a legal minefield to do so. Thus we have to get around this problem. The way we do this for the Open Champion Project is by releasing everything into the public domain. Thus everything contained within the Open Champion Project is licenses via the Creative Commons CC0 license. By contributing an idea in this thread, you also agree that your idea is released under the CC0 license. This allows Riot employees to actively participate without any legal risk.

#2/9/15 Voting for a Champion Concept I was originally planning on simply putting the vote in one big, long, giant poll. But then Paleo Electro suggested that we run a tournament style poll to decide. The benefits to this is anything that we choose will more accurately reflect the community decision, the downside is that it is harder, and takes longer to run. After a bit of deliberation, I decided to do it.

Well, what does this mean for me? This means that unfortunately, you're going to have to create an account on another website to vote, yea I know boo, hiss... The reason why I did this is that it allows for people to vote on every concept in a single round of a bracket. That means that in the first round, you get to vote for 36 of the concepts in one day, as opposed to voting for 5 each day over about 2 and a half weeks.

So what should I do? Go to http://challonge.com/OpenChampionProject and sign up. I've reviewed the license, and the website does not maintain the rights to sell any of your information, or use it in a way that might gain them money. Then vote! Each day at midnight EST, I'll update the brackets into the next round. At the end of the 6 day period, we'll have our Core Concept.

Tl;Dr What, so you read my previous wall of text and stopped here? Anyway, go to http://challonge.com/OpenChampionProject sign up, and vote each day for the ideas you want.

A few last things of great importance:I highly recommend that you read the description of each idea before voting on them, some are hard to describe with even a full sentence, others are easy to describe with one word. Read the descriptions!!!!

And lastly: Please don't cheat... I don't think that anyone will actually cheat, but some people might. Do know that I will be actively checking for accounts that appear fraudulent (i.e. many with the same IP address, ones with Guerilla mail email addresses, etc.) and I will disqualify those votes, and any others from the same IP. This isn't a challenge. I know that if you guys wanted to cheat, you could get away with it, without me noticing. Rather this is a request, just please, don't cheat. It's not nice, it's not fun... The whole idea of the Open Champion Concept is to create a champion created by the community, not by one person. If you want the champion concept to be made, just ask me. I'll probably regret this, but I will help you with a concept, I will review it, and I'll give ideas. Simply post it in another thread, and in some way direct me towards it. Just don't cheat, there's simply no reason too.

Tl;Dr: If you missed the Tl;Dr, it's in the middle, right before a couple of super important notes I added that essentially sum up too, read all the descriptions before voting, and don't cheat.

#2/7/15 Beginning a Champion Concept Since this is the first post of the Open Champion Project, it's appropriate that we'd start with how a champion can be started. Riot has covered this before, but I will hopefully go more in depth here.

Any champion in the game can be reduced to a combination of three core concepts: The Core Mechanic, The Core Fantasy, and The Core Character. An idea for a champion is always one of these three things. This is what you're going to build your champion around. The other two parts might shift and change as the concept evolves, but the core concept you start with will change very little. There is one exception to this, which I will go over later, but right now here are the descriptions for the three possible core concepts.

The Core Mechanic The Core Mechanic of a champion is, at it's essence, why you play the champion. The Core Mechanic is what makes the champion unique to play once you strip away all special effects, all thematic elements.

Riot's more recent champions have all had very clear core mechanics. Perhaps one of the best examples of this is Gnar. Gnar is unique because of his rage mechanic, he has two forms which are both really strong for what they do, but also really weak for what they don't do. The problem is, you don't have control of which one you have at any given moment. A Gnar player has to learn to play around what that, and upon succeeding, is able to jump in, do a lot more damage than they should be able to, then become nigh unkillable with more CC than any other character that tanky. Some other strong examples, include Zed, who places essentially intangible clones which can attack, then can switch places with them, or Azir, who places down ranged areas he can deal damage in, then manipulates those areas. This isn't to say that other champions don't have core mechanics, only that their's aren't always quite as clear from a visual point of view, or even that there can only be one. For example, Ryze has a two very strong core mechanics, he's able to spam short range spells, and he's tanky. Taking a look at some of the more popular champions right now; Thresh's core mechanic is that he's able to pick people out, then keep them from returning while bring his team closer to him. Ahri's is that she stays at the edges of a fight doing damage, then can jump in to pick someone off before jumping back out and if she realizes she made a bad decision, she can get out no problem.

Every champion has a Core Mechanic, the one you choose them for in champion select, this might not be the one intended though. This is why non-meta builds are possible, and work. As AD Sion post rework, you're picking him because he can knock up the whole team, and once he dies, he hurts a lot. As AP Sion post rework (just hear me through), you're picking him because he has low mana, high damage poke, can push quickly, and is nearly uncatchable if someone tries to catch him while he's split pushing. Though their kits are the same, the different builds mean different core mechanics. Just something to keep in mind when developing a champion.

The Core Fantasy The Core Fantasy is essentially what it feels like your doing with the champion. This is hard to explain, so it's easier to do with an example: The Core Fantasy of Twisted Fate is a guy who uses cards as weapons. The Core Fantasy of Azir is a guy who commands disposable soldiers. The Core Fantasy of Thresh is a guy who attacks people with a chain, then collects their souls.

The Core Fantasy of a champion can superficially be a weapon, but it's really everything about the character before you add in their backstory and personality. The Core Fantasy of Lux is a light mage, someone who uses physical light to hurt someone. That could just as easily apply to someone male, or someone without her bubbly personality, in fact, you could easily take Garen and make him a light mage. If his sword's made out of light and you add in some particle effects, it's done.

The Core Fantasy is really important though, it's what makes near identical abilities feel unique. For example, Nami's bubble and Leona's stun are mechanically identical once they hit, they're both stuns, the only difference is the delivery method. Yet getting his by them feels completely different. This is because the fantasy of getting hit by a bubble is very different then one of getting a shield to your face.

The Core Character This is probably the least common of the Core Concepts that are used to start a champion, but it is one that is likely occasionally used. The Core Character of a champion is not just their personality, but their history and how they're visually presented in game. Using Garen as an example, his Core Character includes that he is incredibly loyal to Demacia, that he hates Noxus, etc. But it also includes that he's a giant guy in big hulking armor. The sword might be part of his Core Fantasy, but the armor isn't. Usually, it's difficult to make a champion out of an idea for a Core Character, but I think it has been done. The champion which I'd rate as most likely to have been created with a Core Character is Original Karma. Her Core Fantasy was that she's in drab dress and uses fans, her Core Mechanic was a little more interesting, that you'd require teamwork with your allies for damage and you'd be able to enhance an ability. But I don't believe that the mechanic was the original idea for her. I think the idea was "We need a champion which is representative of Ionia." A few other champions which might have been created with the idea for a Core Character, Gangplank ("We need a pirate"), Shen ("We need a ninja"), Sejuani, ("We need someone for Ashe to fight with"), and Jinx ("We want someone to be in direct conflict with Vi and Caitlyn").

One thing to remember is that a Core Character is very hard to design a champion around. If you notice, all of the characters I mentioned as possibly created from Core Characters have kits without a complex Core Mechanic. This is because a Core Mechanic lends itself to determining a Core Fantasy, a Core Fantasy lends itself towards developing both a Core Fantasy and a Core Character, but a Core Character only lends itself to developing a Core Fantasy. This means that the kits are generally designed after the designer knows exactly what they want their champion to be about, and that means that instead of developing a Core Mechanic, you develop what I'll call a Core Behavior.

A Core Behavior So a Core Behavior is not a viable place to start a champion from, let's just get that out of the way first. It might be something you'll want to keep in mind as you develop a champion, but it isn't something that you can create a kit from, or create a Fantasy, or create a Character. A Core Behavior isn't even always necessary, it only really exists if a champions Core Mechanic is super vague, and isn't enough for the majority of the kit to exist on. A Core Behavior usually happens if you develop the champions Core Fantasy and Core Character before you develop their Core Mechanic. A good example of this is Jinx. Jinx does have a Core Mechanic, but it's not enough to build all of her kit around it, or even most of it. It's enough for one ability. If you can get and ult and maybe two abilities including the passive out of a Core Mechanic, then you can use the other two slots to manipulate what weaknesses a champion has. But Jinx only really has one, her Q. This means that she still has to develop a play style that makes her unique, that play style is the Core Behavior. Jinx's Core Behavior was informed by her character fantasy. She has lots of guns, is hyperactive, and likes chaos and destruction. From the gun and destruction part, you got her W and ult, from her hyperactivity, you got her passive. Her W was just to increase he ability to start fights and escape. This means that her Core Behavior is one of "run around, blast people, and get lots of speed to chase people with". Having to use a Core Behavior rather than a Core Mechanic for most of a champion's kit doesn't make the champion any worse. It only makes them harder to create.

When the Core Concept changes So at the start of this, I said that a Core Concept is one of those three things above, and it's what you run with for the rest of creating a champion with one exception. The exception is that sometimes, you'll be making a champion and you'll find something that you just can't make work, or you'll discover something really cool about the champion, maybe a mechanic, maybe a fantasy, that you just can't execute with your core concept. When this happens, you may end up abandoning your original Core Concept for the new concept. The only concrete example I can give where this happened was with Azir. Azir started with the Core Fantasy of a "Sand Mage". And the Riot tried, and tried, and tried to find a kit which would work, but they just couldn't. They eventually switched the core concept to one of the fantasy or commanding soliders. However, we know that Riot had the general Character Concept of Azir done long before they switched the concept, due to the fact that the leaked images of "Seth the Sand Mage" looks very similar to Azir. Though the concept art looks different, the in game mockups look identical other than the shape of the staff.

Proposals for Core Concepts So now that we've had the nice long game design lesson, it's time to propose Core Concepts. For 2 days, any concept submitted in the comments will be added to this section. At the end of the weekend, I'll start a poll about which Core Concept we should use moving forward for the Open Champion Project. Please submit your idea with a brief description so there's no confusion as to what you mean.

Here are the Core Concepts which were proposed: The core concept of a Trap Master has been chosen, to see the runners up, you can look at: http://challonge.com/OpenChampionProject

"Skater" | Core Fantasy This idea is that of a "Skater" of some sort, there are multiple ways this could be implemented, Ice Skating, Roller Blades, or my personal favorite, "Antigrav boots". A Skater would likely be hyper-mobile with many tools to move quickly in unique ways, but with lower damage. A skater would potentially require a secondary weapon.

Trap Master | Core Fantasy | From Kamiroo Wolf The idea of the trap master is one of a champion that would be completely reliant on accurately predicting the path of opponents, and setting up traps for them. This champion would likely be extremely weak in face-to-face combat and would likely also be a jungler.

Criticism so far: This champion would likely be really hard to balance, and to make non-frustrating. There's a very good reason why people hate Teemo and Shaco. There are still enough routes to take this that it would very likely still be possible to make one that follows this core fantasy.

A "Twilight" themed champion | Core Character | From Anomander A "Twilight" Champion would be one which weaves together the aspects of the Solari and Lunari, using both.

A Nanobot being | Core Character | From Paleo Electro The character itself is just this little round floating ball that would constantly be creating nanobots. These nanobots would collect around the ball, and make a grainy/sandy image of a humanoid shape.

A "War-Machine" | Core Character | From Flay and Pray A big hulking machine, think the Iron Man Mark 1 suit, but bigger with more guns. Could be in direct competition with Rumble.

A Wall Jumper/Climber | Core Fantasy | From Flay and Pray A Champion which can latch onto a wall, then climb along it or leap from it for a considerable boost in possible speed.

A champion which can hide inside another | Core Mechanic | From Flay and Pray A champion which could merge and hide inside another champion, potentially buffing them in some way, before jumping out of them.

An Area Control champion | Core Mechanic | From me and Flay and Pray (Concept proposed independently) A champion which creates an area where it is somehow more dangerous, and spreads it via it's spells.

A champion which buffs champions by jumping to them | Core Mechanic | From MissingGrave I couldn't simplify the description more, so that. Think Yasuo E, but to allies and it buffs them.

A champion which gains a gains debuffs/buffs as they use their abilities | Core Mechanic | From Zenthon127 The champion would, as they use their abilities, gain a debuff to one thing and a buff to another.

A scythe wielder | Core Fantasy | From a bunch of people A champion which uses a scythe in some way, a bunch of people wanted it so here it is. 😜

A chain mace wielder | Core Fantasy | From Kamiroo Wolf For those of you that don't know what a chain mace is, it's this:

Criticism so far: Vbunnie pointed out Sejuani technically uses a chain mace. This isn't part of her core fantasy though, you pick Sejuani because she's riding a boar and freezing people, not because she's using a chain mace. So using a chain mace as a core fantasy of another champion isn't necessarily off the table.

A champion who was tortured and brainwashed | Core Character | From Kamiroo Wolf This champion would probably be gibbering, insane, ragged, and might do weird things like lope around of all fours to stalk people, while still being fully human. Essentially someone now fully insane, but didn't used to be and was clearly tortured in the past. I'd say it's a little dark for league, but we already have a champion who turned executions into a spectator sport and another which seduces men and drains them of their lifeforce..... So yea....

An elemental master | Core Fantasy | Jalkan Pretty much what it says, a champion which uses spells of different elements.

A cyborg | Core Character | Vbunnie Arguably, Viktor already fills this role. But there are other ways you can take it. You could even make the champion be Viktor's victim, or follower, or minion, or experiment gone wrong, or something.

Can remove part of him/herself | Core Mechanic | Vbunnie A champion which an remove part of themself as an uncontrollable pet.

A literal tank | Core Character | LETSGETCOOKING You know they're technically called armored transport vehicles.... Anyway, LETSGETCOOKING technically specified a "giant, armored robot who turns into a tank." But we all know he just wanted a tank. 😜

Criticism so far: You want to bring a tank into the league world, and let it fight among other champions without looking tiny, that's gonna be kind of hard.

The ability to "Fake cast" abilities | Core Mechanic | From Shashiki The idea is that you could cast an ability, probably ult, and then your next ability wouldn't go on cooldown, but also wouldn't do any of it's effects or damage. Thereby faking people out.

Paint or Ink based | Core Fantasy | From Azteryz Pretty simple, either a champion made out of those, or a champion that uses those for all of their abilities.

An "Insanity" resource | Core Fantasy | From Professor Robsta It's a pretty simple idea, but one that a lot could be done with. It's a Core Fantasy rather than mechanic because it's not really specified what would be done with the resource, instead, it's a fantasy of your character is going insane as you play.

A "Balance" champion | Core Mechanic | From Big Bang Bob A Champion with a resource called "balance" or something which makes his spells most powerful when kept in the middle, but each spell shifts it in a direction. GaleWinUnleashed gave a nice description: this would a champion focused heavily on flowing smoothly between forms, taking advantage of the mechanics of both as often as possible, with penalties for relying on one form too much.

A Gravity mage | Core Fantasy | From MidEvilKnight3K This one's been done a lot by people in the community, but that doesn't mean we can't also do it.

A Magnet Wielder | Core Fantasy | From Tis a Nice Day Similar to a Gravity mage in some respects, but could also be completely different.

A Dancer Champ | Core Fantasy | From Felvyne This one has been suggested to Riot a lot, usually as a support champion, but there are a lot of other routes than just support possible for this one.

Radiation | Core Fantasy | From Felvyne A Champion who's moves are all based on radiation in some way.

A "Summoner" | Core Fantasy | From Felvyne There are problems inherit to a champion with uncontrollable minions, but there are other ways to frame a champion that summons things. Maybe the summoned being just takes a swipe with a sword then disappears. In any case, there are a lot of ways this could be interpreted into gameplay.

A champion with a "putty form" | Core Fantasy | From Felvyne So not a champion which completely changes forms, but rather one that does things like turn their arm into a giant sword, or hammer, or axe.

Centralized Vision Denial | Core Mechanic | From Felvyne The idea is that rather than just with Graves, where if you're in the skillshot you don't see, and if you're out of it you can see fine, one where from the outside you can't see in, and vice versa. Not sure this is enough to make a champion around, but you could probably build a playstyle around it.

A "combo caster | Core Mechanic | From a bunch of people Alright, so I dragged my feet putting this up here, for the main reason that Riot has publicly stated that they hate this idea. It's the idea that if you cast Q --> W. It makes W do something different than if you cast E --> W or W --> W. It ends up with the champion effectively having about 16 different spells. DOTA 2 has a champion like this, but Riot has stated a couple of things that they hate about the idea: It's super hard to balance, It's hard to make all 16 abilities feel like there isn't one better, many people just end up doing the same combo over and over again, since it's the optimal combo, it's really, really, incredibly difficult to learn. Anyway, if you guys want to choose this one, you can, but I'd recommend against it. (Sorry for including my own opinions, but I really do think choosing an idea Riot has repetitively condemned is a bad idea.)

A pixie | Core Character | From Vbunnie Not much more to say about this, a pixie or fairy.

A champion who shields with all of their abilities | Core Mechanic | From Skoonie Pretty much what the description says, a champion who shields in some way shape or form with every ability they cast.

Criticism so far: Shields by themselves are boring. There's a reason why no champion just plain has a shield. Instead, they get a shield from dashing, or from attacking, or their shield gives movements speed, or their shield gives AD. A shield by itself is just boring. Usually Riot uses shields for one of two things, either to soak up a tiny bit of damage to make the champion more tanky on champions which take high risks (lee sin, morde, yasuo), or the shields have a threat of, you need to get rid of this shield, otherwise the champion will do a lot more damage (naut, janna, sion). (There's also mr/armor buff shields and spell shields, but those are different). A shield by itself just isn't that fun to use, or to play against. That said, there are some clever things you could do with this.

A mimic | Core Fantasy | From Anomander Basically, a champion that would copy an opponents form, or abilities. Would be a pain in the neck to balance, but would still be awesome.

A melee champion that can gain range | Core Mechanic | From Doctor Dyment From this description it sounds like Kayle, but the original idea was one of sacrificing movement speed and draining a mana-like resource while it runs, which would make it perform very differently from Kayle, who slows you then shreds any defense you have.

An "item crafter" | Core Fantasy | From Ale non è male This idea is one of one of league's item crafters. Maybe specifically a gunsmith or armourer or something of that kind. There are several ways this could be done.

A being of pure rune magic | Core Character | From Kamiroo Wolf Riot hasn't really explored how rune magic actually works very much, other than that it's somehow related to leylines and nexuses are at places leylines cross. They've also said that wild rune magic exists. One of the cool concepts that exists in other fiction is the idea that the magic is in some way, shape, or form alive. This would be a being of wild rune magic, pursuing whatever goals magic may have.

A physic champion | Core Fantasy | From CrazedPorcupine A champion which can read other the minds of others. It would be very hard to fulfill upon this fantasy in game, but not impossible.

** Frog Knight | Core Character | From RustKnight** Frog Knight is an anthropomorphized green frog who defends the weak and guides the lost.

Criticism so far: So in my opinion, this idea is waaaaaaayyyy to specific. But RustKnight was super adamant about it, so it's up here!

When reading the comments, please make sure you are viewing the thread in Chronological view in order to allow for new ideas to have equal potential for support as older ones. We don't want the "Reddit Syndrome" where an upvote or downvote can make or break an idea. If someone has an unpopular view, we want to understand why, not condemn it.

To check that you are in Chronological view, look directly below the text which says "Discuss". If the text reads "Show in Discussion view" you are in Chronological view. If the text says "Switch to Chronological view" then you are in Discussion view and should click the text to change to Chronological view.

#Please refrain from commenting, or responding to comments, in this post, please move all conversation to: http://tiny.cc/openchampion

(Rioters, if you could lock this topic from conversation, that would be awesome!!!)

238 Comments

Kamiroo Wolf4 votes

Perhaps I can provide a proposal Core Concept?

Core Fantasy) “Trap Master" The idea of a trap master even more annoying and advanced than Teemo has been a fascinating idea for me ever since I witnessed the fate of Akame Ga Kill's Lubbock. The way he outplayed, outsmarted, and wrecked his foes even when they thought they had the upper hand was inspiring to me in ways I can't even begin to explain. When I imagine my Trap Master, however, it is rather boring for me to just imagine a wire manipulating genius since it has already been done time and time again! So, what I would like to see is a hyper-squishy jungler support who can gank, outplay, and trap enemies from the safety of the fog of war without worry. As with the Skater, there are multiple ways that my Trap Master can be implemented. The way I am envisioning the master, however, is a super squishy support jungler who stealthily lays down hidden trips and traps that would require his teammate's map awareness and quick thinking to utilize. With a variety of traps to choose from, though, I'm not entirely sure how my jungler will do this! Elaborate wiring, however, should be sure to make an appearance. The Trap Master should be extremely weak in face to face combat too, fleeing at signs of danger.

Baxter9002 votes

A trap master would definitely be fun!

I think there are four major problems that would need to be overcome though to be able to use the concept. The first is that the champion needs some sort of limitation to stop them from just placing their traps in the enemies path as they fight. The second is that the champion needs a way to offer assistance to lanes. The third is that the champion would still be able to fight in lanes, even without the narrow chokepoints of a jungle, so you have to balance them as if there are places where people won't be able to avoid going in, and simultaneously over wide areas. Lastly, the champion needs to be able to fight jungle monsters which when comboed with the first issue, would be difficult.

Additionally, a trap master champ would be hard to make not frustrating to play against. It essentially would become a game of "don't go in the bushes". That said, I think there are ways you can still accomplish the archetype, without making it frustrating, you just might have to default to a singed-like baiting gameplay.

missinggrave2 votes

Passive: Impromptu Scheming - Champion's traps deal additional damage per trap activated with X amount of time. Traps increase in damage by 5/7/10/12%.

Q: Explosive Disk - Champion launches a small disk that explodes upon enemy unit collision or reactivation of trap. Deals X physical damage in a small area of effect and knocks back enemy units a short distance.

W: Spiked Pitfall - Champion sets a wide pitfall for champions to fall into that lasts until cast in a new area. The first champion to walk across the trap is rooted in place and takes X physical damage over time while all others just take the damage over time and are slowed for 15/20/25/30/35% of their movement speed.

E: Tranquilizer - Passive: Champion steals 1% of enemy unit's HP per three auto attacks. Active: Champion shoots target enemy unit dealing X magic damage and slowing the target by 5/10/15/20/25% for 2 seconds. One second afterwards (( three seconds total )) targeted unit is stunned for .5/1/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.

R: Wormhole Gadget - Champion creates a wormhole that blinks him to target location. Any enemy units within X distance from the location are pulled in and teleported to the previous wormhole. Allied champions can click one of the wormholes to move to the other wormhole's location while enemy champions cannot. Champion can recast this ability in rapid succession with increasing mana costs each time. Wormholes only last X amount of time or until new wormholes take it's place. Only 6 wormholes can be active at one time (( Three casts )).

Baxter9002 votes

Just a quick analysis of these from a game designers point of view, please don't take offense if these sound harsh =(

The passive: The passive seems to be encouraging the player to place traps in the moment of, rather than in preparation for combat. This turns the idea of a trap master into an aoe burst of either damage, or cc.

The Q: This is a clever idea, the way I'm reading it is a skillshot that once it reaches it end either explodes, waits on the ground, or waits on the wall it hit. The big thing I'd change about this is I'd make it so it's always a "reactivate" spell. This means that you'd always have the option to plan around the position of those you hit.

The W: This runs into a few problems. The first of which is that unless there's some indication of it, it will be hugely frustrating to the enemy. The second is that it would need built in assurances such as a channel time to ensure that placing it isn't a spur of the moment thing. The big change I'd make to this one is that, again, I'd make it an ability you have to reactivate. This means that you'd have to be paying attention for it to go off, which offers marginally more counterplay.

The E: First of all, the passive is confusing, is this champion supposed to be dueling? I get that it's for in jungle regen, but it makes the champion seem like they should be dueling and building attack speed, which is something the rest of the kit doesn't say. The active though, is pretty good. The main thing I'd do it make it a skillshot, because as a targeted attack, the range would have to be very limited. Something really cool would be to turn off the vision of the champion while they're "asleep" that would really make the attack feel unique.

The R: Where did this ability come from?! No offense meant, but it doesn't sync well with his other abilities. It seems like a combination of kassadin and Rek'sai, but way stronger. It really doesn't work with the playstyle the rest of the kit gives though. The kit says, you should be hitting people with E, then setting up Q and W for a burst. This says you should be jumping around transporting people? It's just weird. What I'd do is I'd move the W to the ult, then come up with a new W which definitely requires forethought, similar to the current one, but maybe on a lesser scale.

Overall though, I think the Q and E are pretty good ideas! If the Trap Master concept is the one we go with, you should definitely propose those when we talk about the abilities. For now though, I'd prefer if we come decide on the core concept before coming up with abilities ^_^

missinggrave2 votes

I'm actually kinda tickled pink that someone went through all that. Thanks!

Quick little explanation for ult before anything else: The ult is intended to pull in members of the enemy team into, well, a trap! Just imagine taking a tower or dragon only to be pulled into the enemy team with the pitfall trap rooting one and slowing the others! Admittedly not the BEST name in terms of a theme, but I thought it'd be fun if the champion used an experimental weapon that the yordles or someone made. I'm willing to alter this though, but I kinda made this on the fly so a recommendation would be nice in terms of ideas.

As for the E, I wanted to give the feeling of the tranquilizer slowly killing you. I mean, if you had the availability, why wouldn't you use it? The main problem I ran into with the idea is what you mentioned. I don't want them to be a duelest, but at the same time I feel as if the sustain and slow kill gave an extra immersion to the playstyle as if you were saving your energy for a more urgent issue such as a teamfight. I could of course change it to a life steal over time with a longer cooldown, thus controlling the battlefield even further and having it as a panic button if your traps fail you.

W of course has a fairly long channel. It's about a second, maybe a second and a half long in my head. I believe that time should keep people from abusing the CC since one second is about enough time to catch up or CC.

Finally, the activation idea is nice. I believe that should add to more counterplay, interaction, and a little bit of a stronger learning curve if this were to become real. Again, this was a bit on the fly as I grabbed onto the idea and wanted to put it up before I forgot it. So I apologize if this was a bit early in terms of concept versus details. :)

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

Perhaps Trap Master could require that he manually trigger one or all of his potential traps, via a kind of wiring system that he must set down beforehand. For instance, 1st cast of an ability could place a trap, 2nd cast could be made a reasonable distance away to set a trigger, which Trap Master must activate in order to spring the placed trap.

Kamiroo Wolf3 votes

I've been thinking over possible champ ideas for some time, and ended up combining my favorite character archetype and possible role: a scythe maiden (think Soul Eater), specializing in anti-mobility.

My only problem with the scythe maiden is that it is so damn overdone nowadays. The rest of the champion's information is interesting/promising...but rubs me the wrong way for reasons I can't explain

Zenthon Prime2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kamiroo Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-02-08T03:12:10.840+0000)

My only problem with the scythe maiden is that it is so damn overdone nowadays. The rest of the champion's information is interesting/promising...but rubs me the wrong way for reasons I can't explain

Luckily, the gameplay idea I created is (IMO) easily separated from the archetype of a scythe maiden. It wouldn't have to be a girl, nor would it likely even need a scythe (though that is my preferred weapon for this concept).

Electro5223 votes

I actually designed a champion not long ago that used a core fantasy of a nano not factory. The character itself is just this little round floating ball that would constantly be creating nanobots. These nanobots would collect around the ball, and make a grainy/sandy image of a girl.

Think we could throw that into the suggestions for core concepts?

Zenthon Prime2 votes

I've been thinking over possible champ ideas for some time, and ended up combining my favorite character archetype and possible role: a scythe maiden (think Soul Eater), specializing in anti-mobility.

Basically, this would be a champion that had a resource similar to Rengar's Ferocity, except that it would have different bonuses at 4 and 5 stacks instead of just a flat bonus at 5. It would also serve a visual/lore purpose as well: from 0-3 stacks, the champion would be in Light form, the 4th stack trigger Twilight form and the 5th/final stack would trigger Darkness form (in other words, the character would gradually get darker and more "evil" as it uses abilities). Given it starts in a brighter form, I was thinking the champion could be Demacian (would be nice that have a Demacian character with a dark side, after all) or Ionian.

On abilities, I'm fairly uncertain atm except that the ult should be a targeted, delayed AoE (like a Zilean bomb, but not that delayed) that deals damage, warps the champion to the target and disables all of the target's mobility skills except movespeed boosts, including Summoner Spells (also blocking the target from using mobility proved by allies, such as Thresh lanterns and Kalista ults). The debuff (probably named "Cripple" or something to that extent), cannot be prevented/purged by items or Cleanse, only by abilities like Alistar's and Olaf's ults.

Baxter9001 votes

{quoted}

I've been thinking over possible champ ideas for some time, and ended up combining my favorite character archetype and possible role: a scythe maiden (think Soul Eater), specializing in anti-mobility.

Basically, this would be a champion that had a resource similar to Rengar's Ferocity, except that it would have different bonuses at 4 and 5 stacks instead of just a flat bonus at 5. It would also serve a visual/lore purpose as well: from 0-3 stacks, the champion would be in Light form, the 4th stack trigger Twilight form and the 5th/final stack would trigger Darkness form (in other words, the character would gradually get darker and more "evil" as it uses abilities). Given it starts in a brighter form, I was thinking the champion could be Demacian (would be nice that have a Demacian character with a dark side, after all) or Ionian.

So from what I'm getting from this, there's really two different ones: The Core Character of a champion that get's more evil as it uses abilities. And the Core Mechanic of a champion that gains a debuff to one thing and a buff to another as they use their abilities.

Those sound about right? If that sounds like your idea, I'll put both of those up!

Zenthon Prime1 votes

Basically the second one. I used Light into Darkness because I thought of it as the best way it could be implemented.

The other "core" part of the champion is a scythe. We seriously need someone with a scythe, and it's the weapon I think best suited to the "corruption" aspect.

Baxter9003 votes

{quoted}

Basically the second one. I used Light into Darkness because I thought of it as the best way it could be implemented.

The other "core" part of the champion is a scythe. We seriously need someone with a scythe, and it's the weapon I think best suited to the "corruption" aspect.

I could put both of them up if you want, but alright.

To everyone else, wow yay! Sudden burst of ideas in the period of a few minutes!

TheKingDodo2 votes

Gnu, the Outdated Description: a tanky hybrid adept at taking and dishing out tons of damage Passive: does whatever the community wants Q: absolutely destroys a key part of FotM champion's combo W: Gnu gains additional resistances in areas that is considered too strong in the current meta (e.g.: to counter penetration, gains damage reduction instead of armor) E: Some mobility ability that out ranges/outperforms the FotM's mobility R: Gathers the tears of FotM abusers, channels for 2 second and then perform some insanely manly move.

Baxter9001 votes

{quoted}

Gnu, the Outdated Description: a tanky hybrid adept at taking and dishing out tons of damage Passive: does whatever the community wants Q: absolutely destroys a key part of FotM champion's combo W: Gnu gains additional resistances in areas that is considered too strong in the current meta (e.g.: to counter penetration, gains damage reduction instead of armor) E: Some mobility ability that out ranges/outperforms the FotM's mobility R: Gathers the tears of FotM abusers, channels for 2 second and then perform some insanely manly move.

This is the kind of thing we hope to avoid by going through the proper process for creating a champion 😝

TheKingDodo2 votes

I'm richard stallman! stop being a microsoft and suppressing my frickin open source champion movement. btw that's a really awkward naming...

Ale non è male2 votes

A lot of the Core characters and Core fantasy I have seen are just awful. Lack creativity or are just focused on some strict design that is incoherent with what is yet present in the league 8I'd find difficult to justify a skater in the league, for example)

If I should mention a Core character that I would be interested to see developed, it is something that so far has been only grazed in League here and there, i'd like to see an Armourer or Gunsmith enter the league So far we have seen only champs with multiple weapons or that change forms, or inventors that bring their creations to the battlefield, or champs that through some kind of magic or mystic power were capable to upgrade/evolve their abilities We have never seen a craftsman capable to create weapons with different attributes to enhance their own gameplay on the fly and in a way he can have a lot of flexibility during the game

P.S. Dear, Op, you are wrong in saying that someone which post a champ idea on forums gains the property on it. When you have accepted to install LoL and join the forums, in the ToU/EULA is clearly stated that everything that you post on forums become Riot's property. If you post a champ idea on the forum, Riot can use it without owing you anything 8except a thank you, probably)

Kamiroo Wolf2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=0033,timestamp=2015-02-08T20:50:45.552+0000)

A lot of the Core characters and Core fantasy I have seen are just awful. Lack creativity or are just focused on some strict design that is incoherent with what is yet present in the league 8I'd find difficult to justify a skater in the league, for example)

If I should mention a Core character that I would be interested to see developed, it is something that so far has been only grazed in League here and there, i'd like to see an Armourer or Gunsmith enter the league So far we have seen only champs with multiple weapons or that change forms, or inventors that bring their creations to the battlefield, or champs that through some kind of magic or mystic power were capable to upgrade/evolve their abilities We have never seen a craftsman capable to create weapons with different attributes to enhance their own gameplay on the fly and in a way he can have a lot of flexibility during the game

P.S. Dear, Op, you are wrong in saying that someone which post a champ idea on forums gains the property on it. When you have accepted to install LoL and join the forums, in the ToU/EULA is clearly stated that everything that you post on forums become Riot's property. If you post a champ idea on the forum, Riot can use it without owing you anything 8except a thank you, probably)

Because a champion that creates their own weapons has never been suggested before and there is absolutely no chance anyone would have ever even thought of something as innovative as that. There was no need for you to call everyone's ideas awful, bro. You could have just posted your concept and explained why it's viable. 😕

Baxter9001 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=0033,timestamp=2015-02-08T20:50:45.552+0000)

A lot of the Core characters and Core fantasy I have seen are just awful. Lack creativity or are just focused on some strict design that is incoherent with what is yet present in the league 8I'd find difficult to justify a skater in the league, for example)

If I should mention a Core character that I would be interested to see developed, it is something that so far has been only grazed in League here and there, i'd like to see an Armourer or Gunsmith enter the league So far we have seen only champs with multiple weapons or that change forms, or inventors that bring their creations to the battlefield, or champs that through some kind of magic or mystic power were capable to upgrade/evolve their abilities We have never seen a craftsman capable to create weapons with different attributes to enhance their own gameplay on the fly and in a way he can have a lot of flexibility during the game

P.S. Dear, Op, you are wrong in saying that someone which post a champ idea on forums gains the property on it. When you have accepted to install LoL and join the forums, in the ToU/EULA is clearly stated that everything that you post on forums become Riot's property. If you post a champ idea on the forum, Riot can use it without owing you anything 8except a thank you, probably)

So, addressing the first part, there is no such thing as an awful Core Concept, that's part of the brilliant part of them. There are ones that would be hard to implement, hard to balance, are simple, are complex, but there's no such thing as a bad core concept. What does happen is that people make champions without a clear core concept, or they don't follow their core concept very much, and that's where the problem arises. You want a good example of weird core concepts? Let's take two of the most famous videogames, Mario and Sonic. One is about a plumber who uses drugs of some sort to get more powerful and rescue a princess from a giant turtle. Another is about a hedgehog, who's blue, who runs super fast. There's no such thing as a bad core concept. You bring up the specific point of a skater, I think you're being too close minded. What if I were to say that this Skater was from Piltover, she uses anti-gravity boots, she built them and now tries to be a superhero. She idolizes Vi, and Caitlyn hates her interfering. That sound like it exists in the League universe? The idea of a core concept, is to make a concept which is super vague, in this case, uses some sort of skates. If these are anti-grav boots, fine, if this champion freezes the ground in front of it and slides on ice, fine. But the core concept isn't "uses roller skates" it's that the champion feels like they're skating, or sliding, or something when you play them. To end this rant, let me just ask you one thing, was someone with big giant fists who punches things coherent with the theme of League before Vi was added?

Let me make one think clear though, if you can give constructive criticism, we'd love to have you, having someone play devils advocate is a very, very good thing, if you're going to bash people's idea's get out... Your idea you gave is cool, everything you've said, you've said pretty politely, but don't just bash people's ideas. Give constructive criticism.

Anyway, with the unpleasantness out of the way, your idea sounds cool.

As for the ToU with the forums. Here's the thing, that line exists in all ToU documents for services, but it's very much in a legal grey area. In court, it would probably be night unenforceable if you created content which would be of any value (like a picture or a champion idea). No one has ever tried to take it to court though, so no one's going to be willing to risk it, in terms of companies. In other words, the companies follow the policy of "better safe than sorry". Though Riot technically could use it, they'd probably lose the legal battle.

Ale non è male1 votes

Do you know that Mario concept is not the concept of a plumber? Mario first appeared in the Donkey Kong game, and he was originally a carpenter, as the game is set on a constrcution site (hence the stairs on DK level). His mean feature is to jump because he had to avoid barrels thrown by DK in that game. He has been popular acknwoledged as a plumber because, when Miyaomoto and the other Nintendo artists had to design him, to overcome technicaly difficulties to design the models of the characters at that time, they draw him in that way we all know, that resembled an italian plumber to the American audience and so he beccame worldwide popular as a plumber, and was later confirmed by Nintendo as plumber by setting the first Super Mario Bros in sewers (and if you check on Wiki on the Super Mario bros game page you can see why Mario enemies are turtles)

Sonic has becomed an hedgehog, because SEGA was searching a character compatible with the level design of the first original Sonic game, where the character could run very fast, do 360 corners and roll up to enter in pipes (a game much more fast paced than what were the Mario games Nintendo was doing at the time), and so when the designers draw various characters, the image of hedgehog fitted perfectly the imaginery of a character that ahd to roll up to accelerate and enter into pipes

So yeah, there is bad design and there are bad concepts if they doesn't fit the game mechanics and environment. Since LoL is a game fully estabilished and with its peculiar identity at this point in its life, it can be easily acknowledged what kind of concept can fit and what can not fit in the game. My criticism was not meant to bash anyone...but looking at your example : a guy that is an inventor (theme widely used) that create antigravity boots so becomes a skater that want to be a hero (again, theme used, look at Poppy and other champs lore) ? Or that freeze the ground in front of it (hey, there's Trundle) and slide? The only original thing is the skater theme, and is not something that imho fits within the league, unless you just to decide to create caricature champs for any kind of human activity which is not the goal - otherwise why not put out a random soccer player that hit guys with a ball? It has no connection whatsoever with the League universe, but I'm sure you can create soccer and a soccer team out of nowhere in Runeterra if you want to justify him, no? -

And no, Vi made completely sense in League. A criminal that stole hextech hardware since childhood, became a master of hextech mechanic, created her fists to save people from a mine, after that event became a Piltover "Robin Hood" that stole only to other criminals, and then when Cait caputred her, instead of arresting Vi decided to offer her to become her assistent and Vi accepted. Not anyone of these elements in her lore is foreign to League universe and has to be forced to be plugged in. Rioters made the move to make the old lore "non canon" because the Lore was effectively restricting them in introducing new characters in the league, but we have not gotten yet to the point where a generic skater can be plugged in the League universe, imho (and that's what i expressed in the original post, without insulting anyone)

Baxter9001 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ale non è male,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=003300010000,timestamp=2015-02-09T14:48:42.942+0000)

Do you know that Mario concept is not the concept of a plumber? Mario first appeared in the Donkey Kong game, and he was originally a carpenter, as the game is set on a constrcution site (hence the stairs on DK level). His mean feature is to jump because he had to avoid barrels thrown by DK in that game. He has been popular acknwoledged as a plumber because, when Miyaomoto and the other Nintendo artists had to design him, to overcome technicaly difficulties to design the models of the characters at that time, they draw him in that way we all know, that resembled an italian plumber to the American audience and so he beccame worldwide popular as a plumber, and was later confirmed by Nintendo as plumber by setting the first Super Mario Bros in sewers (and if you check on Wiki on the Super Mario bros game page you can see why Mario enemies are turtles)

Sonic has becomed an hedgehog, because SEGA was searching a character compatible with the level design of the first original Sonic game, where the character could run very fast, do 360 corners and roll up to enter in pipes (a game much more fast paced than what were the Mario games Nintendo was doing at the time), and so when the designers draw various characters, the image of hedgehog fitted perfectly the imaginery of a character that ahd to roll up to accelerate and enter into pipes

So yeah, there is bad design and there are bad concepts if they doesn't fit the game mechanics and environment. Since LoL is a game fully estabilished and with its peculiar identity at this point in its life, it can be easily acknowledged what kind of concept can fit and what can not fit in the game. My criticism was not meant to bash anyone...but looking at your example : a guy that is an inventor (theme widely used) that create antigravity boots so becomes a skater that want to be a hero (again, theme used, look at Poppy and other champs lore) ? Or that freeze the ground in front of it (hey, there's Trundle) and slide? The only original thing is the skater theme, and is not something that imho fits within the league, unless you just to decide to create caricature champs for any kind of human activity which is not the goal - otherwise why not put out a random soccer player that hit guys with a ball? It has no connection whatsoever with the League universe, but I'm sure you can create soccer and a soccer team out of nowhere in Runeterra if you want to justify him, no? -

And no, Vi made completely sense in League. A criminal that stole hextech hardware since childhood, became a master of hextech mechanic, created her fists to save people from a mine, after that event became a Piltover "Robin Hood" that stole only to other criminals, and then when Cait caputred her, instead of arresting Vi decided to offer her to become her assistent and Vi accepted. Not anyone of these elements in her lore is foreign to League universe and has to be forced to be plugged in. Rioters made the move to make the old lore "non canon" because the Lore was effectively restricting them in introducing new characters in the league, but we have not gotten yet to the point where a generic skater can be plugged in the League universe, imho (and that's what i expressed in the original post, without insulting anyone)

Alright, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree in terms of the Skater, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Anyway, yay! New Knowledge! I'd love it if you could stay, but please, don't just bash ideas. Nothing you've said in here is anything but constructive criticism though, so yay!

Anyway, great to have you!

Ale non è male2 votes

Give an opinion doesn't mean bash ideas or insult anyone. The fact I found some proposal awful isn't unconstructive criticism since I motivated WHY I not find them to be good, and since I didn't insult anyone. It was constructive because it explain what were the flaws , and what should be design gola, imho.

Ale non è male2 votes

Do you want to know what could be a good Concept idea for a "sliding/skating/moving very fast" character instead? Create for example, a Freljord messenger. A guy that since childhood was found to have an exceptional speed in running on ice and that for this reason was chosen by Avarosan(or any other faction in Freljord) king/queen as their messenger to bring their declarations and laws around their realm in a way that could have not been possible for any other creature in freljord. This guy would have eventually developped good fighting abilities, to overcome the monsters present in the frozen and unhospital land of freljord. Because of his valor, Avarosan king/queen started to use this guy as a trusted messenger to negotiate peace treaty and alliances with the other Freljord populations and the other factions in Valoran. But, during one of these travels, he was captured after a trap made by Sejuani (or insert any other kind of enemy of this guy faction) henchman. During the voyage to bring him in front of Sejuani to reveal all the secrets way to hit Avarosans to the heart of their reign with a blitzcrieg assault, he managed to escape in a moment in which his guards were distracted. Being in an unknown land, he lost himself in a forest, hunted by Sejuani soldiers. When everything seems lost, he arrived to an X place and found an Y person/creature/item, etc etc...and on this kind of character you could plug various kind of abilities, including eventually, a skater abiliity which can make identify him as a skater, or you could have given him another ability to make him identify as something else (for example, instead of do a skating ability, he could be able to create a tornado around an area with his superspeed that knockup enemies and damage them, a bit ala Flash Gordon)

But you can't just throw a skater that want to become a superhero idea around (a C-movie idea) and expect to plug it in the League for no reason out of nowhere

junglerboy162 votes

We need to get some Reds in here, since it looks like you finally figured out how to get past their "we won't look at your concept because (insert legalese here)".

Dokusei2 votes

no mentions of helmet bro

this thread did not deliver

Champion Skin2 votes

The faking a spell thingy would need to be things like Veigar E and things that controls an area/zone that people wouldn't want to walk into But if they don't walk into it.. they wouldn't know if it was real or not...

And a champion like this would probably benefit from a charge system on some of his/her abilities to make it harder to tell if it is the real ability or not (or maybe something like Corki missiles some of the spells.. every third or so is a fake one by making some of the casts fakes/blanks you could allow it to have more power or using it to justify giving it charges to allow more uses at once... making it random so nobody knows if it is real or not would be interesting though probably to unreliable and frustrating)

SociopathFriend2 votes

I remember trying to do this in the older forums. You have my full support, hope it works out for you. Turns out, the reason I couldn't sign up with my username is because I had an account from almost 2 years ago, how about that?

gameipedia2 votes

A bit surprised not a single rioter has posted on this, I wonder why actually?

Doctor Dyment1 votes

I have a Core Concept I would like to submit please.

This is the like Maokai, and is a tree. However, this tree is an Ent, and is named Bravebark. (I lifted the name from a video game, but everything else is me.) He would be a large, imposing creature, who is a tank. All of his abilities would be involved around treey type stuff. I have a single idea for him gameplay wise, but I have a few ideas what he would be lore wise.

Gameplay Wise: A very large Ent Lord (Ents are among the most ancient creatures ever to grace the world) who uses pieces of himself to combat enemies, not unlike Zac. He would carry around a large wooden club, and his kit revolves around a Nautilus type group of abilities, one of which creates a prison to trap enemies, and another on launching someone back a few hundred units. He would be a jungler naturally, as his passive would let him regain health rather quickly while in the jungle. (For full information, look up the word "Bravebark" in the search bar, as I have already made a page on him.)

Lore Wise: 1.) Bravebark was a member of a large community of Ents who lived together peacefully for thousands of years. They protected and cherished the natural life that the forest had, and stood as sentinels to prevent harm from coming to them. This however, was shattered with the arrival of humans to the land. At first, the Ents did not know what to do with the humans, as they seemed to be normal, peace loving creatures. However, once they began to kill the animals in the area, and cut down the trees, the Ents realized they needed to fight back. They drove the humans away from the forest, hoping they would stay away for good. They would not. Stories were brought back to every major power, telling of giant terrorizing trees that only think of death and destruction. All sides wanted these Ents for their own personal benefits. Noxus wanted a new and powerful weapon to wage war with, the Demacians wanted to destroy these "evil" creatures, the people of Pilitover wanted to study them, the people of Zaun wanted the challenge of being able to corrupt such beings, but possibly the most intrigued of the group, was the summoners at the Institute of War, who wished to know more of these ancient creatures who somehow managed to never be found. . The humans came in droves, attacking constantly, dragging away the Ents one by one. Bravebark, the oldest and wisest of the Ents, knew that this would not stop unless the humans would understand who the Ents really were. One day, a group from every interested party on Valoran prepared to storm the forest. But before they did, Bravebark stepped forward. He strode confidently from the safety of his forest, and greeted all the people. However, things were not peaceful a Bravebark hoped, as not a single group put away their weapons. Bravebark pleaded with them, asking them to leave, but they did not. Bravebark watched as groups of small armies charged towards his home. He realized it was either the death of the humans, or the death of his kind. Summoning the powers of Nature itself, Bravebark let forth a torrent of magical forces at his enemies. The summoners from the Institute were the first to retaliate, but found themselves to be trapped, as the other Ents, enraged at the loss of their friends and family, began to attack as well. After the battle was done, every side lay decimated. Not a single Ent had fallen, but their fate was worse than death. They had abandoned their peaceful ways, and let their magic be used for evil. Bravebark realized that if his kind was to survive, they would need to leave their forest. With one last goodbye, the Ents left their home, and went on a search for a new, safer one.

2.) The Ents are a race of creatures that mankind has always known of. Many different kinds used to exist, including the Shurimian Ents, the Feljordian Ents, and the Ents who used to live on the island now know, as the Shadow Isles. Yes, many used to exist. Until humans began to appear. The first ones to fall were those who lived on the Pre-Shadow Isles. An entire group of peaceful creatures, turned into twisted and gnarled versions of themselves because of mankind's recklessness. The next to fall, were the Shurima Ents. Once the ability to Ascend was discovered, these Ents were hunted down and their magic was sucked away from them to power these ceremonies, ending their lives. The Freljordian Ents have not been seen or heard from for thousands of years. All that remains, is Bravebark, and his group of forest Ents. Bravebark, was one of the first Ents ever created. His brothers and sisters were sent to guard the other realms, while he was sent to guard the forests. However, more and more Ents began to fall to mankind's destructive powers, and became monsters from the reckless use of magic. Bravebark, once a peaceful creature, now has a burning hatred for mankind, and wishes only to see human civilization crumble, so they can see how it feels to lose everything you have ever cared about. Bravebark tried to live away from the humans, away from civilization. But civilization came to him. After group after group of loggers and hunters were thrown from the forest by the Ents who lived there, they came back for revenge. They set the forest ablaze, trapping all the Ents inside. Bravebark, the only one powerful enough to survive the fires, could only watch helplessly, as the last of his kind were destroyed. Once the blaze had died down, the groups of humans came back to see if they had succeeded. Only after they had began to celebrate, did Bravebark attack. He called upon the powers of Nature itself, to lend him strength to defeat his enemies, and Nature responded. Only after had all the humans been killed, did Bravebark realize what he had done. He had allowed the humans to make him angry enough to use his powers to harm others. After this, he hated the humans even more. Now, tales of an angry beast stalking the lands run wild in the city-states of Valoran. Bravebark is now hunted by every major civilization on Valoran, for differing reasons. Little do they know, that is exactly what Bravebark wants to happen.

"You have taken everything from me, but what you do not realize, is that I now have nothing to lose, and am coming for you." - Bravebark.

Eh? What do you think?

Baxter9001 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2015-02-08T07:11:00.513+0000)

I have a Core Concept I would like to submit please.

This is the like Maokai, and is a tree. However, this tree is an Ent, and is named Bravebark. (I lifted the name from a video game, but everything else ***

Eh? What do you think?

I think that while it sounds cool, if I try to reduce it to a Core Concept (remember, a Core concept is either a Core Fantasy, A Core Mechanic, or a Core Character) then he just sounds too plain similar to other champions. I also think that unfortunately, Maokai occupies the "Ent" space, and you could make any other Ent as visually different as you want, and he would still seem similar to Maokai.

Doctor Dyment1 votes

Now that I look at it, I can see where you are coming from. And apologies to pester you with another concept, but I can't decide what category this would fit into, so I'm asking you now. It is either Core Fantasy or Core Mechanic, but I don't know which he would fit into. To paraphrase the page I wrote about him (if you are interested check it out, okay shameless self advertising is over) just look up "Solomon the Mercenary." Anyway, Solomon is a champion concept for a top laner, who is both ranged and melee. However, his transformation from role to role is not like Jayce, Nidalee, or even Gnar. His transformation is one ability, his Q to be exact, and it allows him to have an ability not shared by any other champion in the League. Solomon is a beefy man, right up on the edge of pudgy beefy, and carries around a minigun. His Q makes him rev it up, at the cost of a large amount of movement speed, and fire continuously without the animation in between each attack. To balance this skill out, when using his minigun at range, Solomon moves very slowly, and deals only around sixty percent of his attack damage per second. His mana bar, is instead replaced with an ammo bar. This bar would also dictate how long he can fire his minigun, so in the late game if Solomon builds nothing but damage, he can run out of ammo and need to use his melee attacks instead. He would be able to run out of his kind of pool, while in the late game everyone else doesn't have that problem. Please tell me what you think, and where this would fit in on the Core Concepts chart.

Baxter9001 votes

[{quoted}](name=Doctor Dyment,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=001900000000,timestamp=2015-02-08T20:40:45.845+0000)

Now that I look at it, I can see where you are coming from. And apologies to pester you with another concept, but I can't decide what category this would fit into, so I'm asking you now. It is either Core Fantasy or Core Mechanic, but I don't know which he would fit into. To paraphrase the page I wrote about him (if you are interested check it out, okay shameless self advertising is over) just look up "Solomon the Mercenary." Anyway, Solomon is a champion concept for a top laner, who is both ranged and melee. However, his transformation from role to role is not like Jayce, Nidalee, or even Gnar. His transformation is one ability, his Q to be exact, and it allows him to have an ability not shared by any other champion in the League. Solomon is a beefy man, right up on the edge of pudgy beefy, and carries around a minigun. His Q makes him rev it up, at the cost of a large amount of movement speed, and fire continuously without the animation in between each attack. To balance this skill out, when using his minigun at range, Solomon moves very slowly, and deals only around sixty percent of his attack damage per second. His mana bar, is instead replaced with an ammo bar. This bar would also dictate how long he can fire his minigun, so in the late game if Solomon builds nothing but damage, he can run out of ammo and need to use his melee attacks instead. He would be able to run out of his kind of pool, while in the late game everyone else doesn't have that problem. Please tell me what you think, and where this would fit in on the Core Concepts chart.

Core Mechanic: A melee champion that can gain high damage range for a short time at the cost of speed.

Only downside is that this sounds a little like Kayle, I'll still put it up though.

Doctor Dyment2 votes

Thanks man, really means somethin' to me.

Baxter9001 votes

Alright, I will post a new thread for it. Do you guys think it should be written as an entirely separate thread redirecting to this one, or should it be on it's own topic?

SociopathFriend2 votes

It should probably be it's own topic, otherwise it's little more than a hyperlink. That said, you should be sure to link to here if you do that.

Baxter9001 votes

Oh yea, almost forgot, the finals are up!!

#Trap Master vs Gravity Mage!!!!

SociopathFriend1 votes

Since we're so close to ending voting I figured I'd ask, what is the plan after voting is done?

Baxter9001 votes

{quoted}

Since we're so close to ending voting I figured I'd ask, what is the plan after voting is done?

I think the plan is probably going to be to solidify the direction we're going mechanics-wise (i.e. is the trap master re-activating his traps or are they automatic, is the gravity mage a support, a mid laner, or a tank? and how are we going to focus on the use of gravity)

I'll probably run submission via comments again, though this time I think we should definitely discuss the reasons for picking one playstyle, and when we have several viable ones that we feel confident we can create a balanced champion with, we can vote.

After that, we'll probably go over each individual ability. I'll probably write up some system for proposing kit changes, and we can all vote on the elements of an ability itself.

If you think this should be done differently, I'd love to hear it!

SociopathFriend2 votes

Pretty similar to what I think you're already going to do really. First have everyone discuss/vote what role they want the champion to fill, then you'd need to make abilities. The hard part would be getting them all to work cohesively as a kit if everyone enters a different ability.

Since both final core concepts are likely to be either a Mage or Support, our job is a bit easier. Mages and supports tend to have relatively similar kits: One skillshot for poke One defensive measure One AoE And ultimate that defines said champion

So there's a few different ways you can go. You could either ask for ideas for the entire kit and vote on them, or have people create skills from a set of parameters. Example: "For the next ability, we're going to create this champion's poke ability".

Vbunnie2 votes

{quoted}

Pretty similar to what I think you're already going to do really. First have everyone discuss/vote what role they want the champion to fill, then you'd need to make abilities. The hard part would be getting them all to work cohesively as a kit if everyone enters a different ability.

Since both final core concepts are likely to be either a Mage or Support, our job is a bit easier. Mages and supports tend to have relatively similar kits: One skillshot for poke One defensive measure One AoE And ultimate that defines said champion

So there's a few different ways you can go. You could either ask for ideas for the entire kit and vote on them, or have people create skills from a set of parameters. Example: "For the next ability, we're going to create this champion's poke ability".

actually both champs can be pretty much any role. I mean why not have a gravity adc? or a gravity tank? or even a gravity assasin? are you telling me that wouldnt work? and about the trapmaster again an assassin can work tank probably not as much but mage/midlaner or support are still viable. And there is nothign that says a trapmaster cant be a jungler.

SociopathFriend2 votes

Because the concept was gravity "Mage". Thus I thought it's likely to be a Mage role. Just about every Mage also has qualities to make them a good Support, so I listed Support as an option. Assassins are not given a large deal of CC- and I'm pretty damn sure a Gravity Mage concept would be packing CC.

And the trapmaster could be anything, true, but it's an idea probably that revolves around using abilities- which roles are most dependent on abilities? Mages, Assassins, and Supports. Every LoL assassin is a melee unit, which makes no sense for someone who depends on traps to be in melee range.

So, I said it would probably be a Mage or Support in either case, and I'm not wrong.

Jungle isn't a role, jungle is a position- like top, mid, support, or bot. Roles are: Fighter, Tank, Marksman, Mage, Support, and Assassin.

Tanks are meant to initiate a fight and throw around CC for disruption Marksman are meant to deal DPS with auto-attacks Mages are AoE burst damage Assassins are single target burst damage Fighter is meant to be a hybrid between someone tanky but can deal damage and supports usually pack utility to assist the team

There are champs that blur the lines, true; but that's the core purpose behind each role.

Vbunnie2 votes

{quoted}

Because the concept was gravity "Mage". Thus I thought it's likely to be a Mage role. Just about every Mage also has qualities to make them a good Support, so I listed Support as an option. Assassins are not given a large deal of CC- and I'm pretty damn sure a Gravity Mage concept would be packing CC.

And the trapmaster could be anything, true, but it's an idea probably that revolves around using abilities- which roles are most dependent on abilities? Mages, Assassins, and Supports. Every LoL assassin is a melee unit, which makes no sense for someone who depends on traps to be in melee range.

So, I said it would probably be a Mage or Support in either case, and I'm not wrong.

Jungle isn't a role, jungle is a position- like top, mid, support, or bot. Roles are: Fighter, Tank, Marksman, Mage, Support, and Assassin.

Tanks are meant to initiate a fight and throw around CC for disruption Marksman are meant to deal DPS with auto-attacks Mages are AoE burst damage Assassins are single target burst damage Fighter is meant to be a hybrid between someone tanky but can deal damage and supports usually pack utility to assist the team

There are champs that blur the lines, true; but that's the core purpose behind each role.

true however a good assassin would have mechanics to throw off the opponent which atrapmaster can have. Shaco for example is melee range however he is hard to hit or get his hands on. A trapmaster can be similar in this sense. Fizz is another example of a melee champion who can be hard to get his hands on. A trapmaster can have a similar approach. Gragas is also melee and has a deal of ranged ability which he is fairly reliant on. A trapmaster can be the same in that even if they were melee they can have abilities that make them hard to hit. A Gravity mage does not have to have a good deal of cc and even if he/she did so does ashe or Jinx which does not mean they cannot be a marksman. A gravity mage can also very easily be a Tank as they can easily initiate the firght with some form of cc and disrupt opponents if we were to go that route. Mages are not just AOE burst damage. Mages are only unfiied in that they are all very spell and damage oriented. Not all mages are burst. Marksman are not necessarily dps with auto attacks. Almost all Marksman are physical damage oriented not necessarily auto attack oriented for example Ezreal is extremely ability oriented as is Kog'ma. There are other extremely ability oriented adcs available. I am not arguing with your logic only that the roles are extremely open to interpretation. A trapmaster can be any role as can a gravity mage. Either can be any role, especially if we voted on a role and secondary role. Jungler/none can be a secondary role. Yes Jungler is not a role it is a lane however Junglers have mechanics available to them that only junglers have. For example some champions do bonus damage to nuetral monsters or have abilities that gain some bonus when used on nuetral monsters or minions like nunu or cho'gath. If you are telling me nunu was not made for the jungle you must be crazy all of his passives benefit from the jungle. Cho gath is another great example of a champion made for the jungle.

SociopathFriend1 votes

Nunu was indeed a champion made to be in the jungle, but he and he alone was made in such a manner to specifically make him belong there- or perhaps Evelynn for all I know about her. A champion having sustain does not mean they belong in the jungle, it just means they will do well in it. Some sustain champs are far more useful in lane than in the jungle. Some champs with no sustain are very powerful in the jungle.

I just figured a champion with the concept of trapmaster would focus around said traps, which is not an assassin thing. Assassins need to get onto the enemy, not wait for them to come to them. Shaco does not revolve around using his traps, he revolves around jumping about and causing general mayhem in battle. His traps help in this regard, but they're not the "point" of his kit. Caitlyn and Jinx both have traps, but it's not the defining feature of their kit, it's just something they have.

For the most part, Mages are about burst. They're limited by cooldowns so they tend to blow everything at once, this is the exact definition of "burst damage". There are a few champs that do not follow this trend, like Cass for Mage and Graves for Marksman, but for most of the champions in either role- Mages burst, Marksman DPS. DPS through autos mixed with abilities is still DPS.

Tanks have short range CC, requiring them to get in the face of the enemy. Mages have ranged CC, allowing them to keep the enemy at a distance. There are not ranged tanks in League of Legends. This doesn't manea you can't make one, but currently almost all Tanks are melee and pack close range CC, not long. And I guarantee the first thing anyone would think when they hear "Gravity Mage" would be something about manipulating gravity, which would affect speed, which is CC.

Vbunnie1 votes

{quoted}

Nunu was indeed a champion made to be in the jungle, but he and he alone was made in such a manner to specifically make him belong there- or perhaps Evelynn for all I know about her. A champion having sustain does not mean they belong in the jungle, it just means they will do well in it. Some sustain champs are far more useful in lane than in the jungle. Some champs with no sustain are very powerful in the jungle.

I just figured a champion with the concept of trapmaster would focus around said traps, which is not an assassin thing. Assassins need to get onto the enemy, not wait for them to come to them. Shaco does not revolve around using his traps, he revolves around jumping about and causing general mayhem in battle. His traps help in this regard, but they're not the "point" of his kit. Caitlyn and Jinx both have traps, but it's not the defining feature of their kit, it's just something they have.

For the most part, Mages are about burst. They're limited by cooldowns so they tend to blow everything at once, this is the exact definition of "burst damage". There are a few champs that do not follow this trend, like Cass for Mage and Graves for Marksman, but for most of the champions in either role- Mages burst, Marksman DPS. DPS through autos mixed with abilities is still DPS.

Tanks have short range CC, requiring them to get in the face of the enemy. Mages have ranged CC, allowing them to keep the enemy at a distance. There are not ranged tanks in League of Legends. This doesn't manea you can't make one, but currently almost all Tanks are melee and pack close range CC, not long. And I guarantee the first thing anyone would think when they hear "Gravity Mage" would be something about manipulating gravity, which would affect speed, which is CC.

no ranged tanks? Thresh....enough said. Also who said the champion had to be ranged. Yes a trapmaster can focus around traps but it doesnt mean that their mode of placing said traps cannot be assassin like. It does not mean that they cannot have a mode of either invisiblity or some other form of placing said traps in which they are untouchable or hard to get a hold of. They can have a passive for example that makes them invisible for 1 second after placing a trap or some other thing similar to that. Or some form of movement skill while placing a trap in which they are untouchable while using. there are also other champions who effect speed that are adcs for example ashe. Ashe has very strong cc and is still an adc.

SociopathFriend1 votes

no ranged tanks? Thresh....enough said

Thresh is a Support first and a Fighter second, he is not a Tank.

*there are also other champions who effect speed that are adcs for example ashe. *

Yes, that is Ashe's unique trait, permanent slow and easy CC. Very few ADC's bring that sort of thing to the table- most have a little CC, that is hard to land, or none at all.

it doesnt mean that their mode of placing said traps cannot be assassin like

Placing traps isn't an Assassin quality. There is literally one Assassin that has traps and it's Shaco, and it's absolutely not the core mechanic of his kit. It's just a part of his kit to enhance his passive, "Backstab". That is the only reason he has the boxes, for the 'flee' effect.

This really isn't hard to grasp: Tanks are melee with close range CC, their job is initiation. Assassins dive the enemy and kill squishes, then hopefully escape. ADCs are about constant damage by sacrificing utility. Mages are about ranged damage and long range CC. Supports help the other roles. And Fighters are less tanky Tanks that also deal damage.

This isn't up for debate, this is what Riot thinks of their champions and the roles they give them. I don't know why you're trying to argue with me. There are some exceptions, yes, but a majority of the champions with these roles follow the rules Riot has set out.

Vbunnie1 votes

{quoted}

no ranged tanks? Thresh....enough said

Thresh is a Support first and a Fighter second, he is not a Tank.

*there are also other champions who effect speed that are adcs for example ashe. *

Yes, that is Ashe's unique trait, permanent slow and easy CC. Very few ADC's bring that sort of thing to the table- most have a little CC, that is hard to land, or none at all.

it doesnt mean that their mode of placing said traps cannot be assassin like

Placing traps isn't an Assassin quality. There is literally one Assassin that has traps and it's Shaco, and it's absolutely not the core mechanic of his kit. It's just a part of his kit to enhance his passive, "Backstab". That is the only reason he has the boxes, for the 'flee' effect.

This really isn't hard to grasp: Tanks are melee with close range CC, their job is initiation. Assassins dive the enemy and kill squishes, then hopefully escape. ADCs are about constant damage by sacrificing utility. Mages are about ranged damage and long range CC. Supports help the other roles. And Fighters are less tanky Tanks that also deal damage.

This isn't up for debate, this is what Riot thinks of their champions and the roles they give them. I don't know why you're trying to argue with me. There are some exceptions, yes, but a majority of the champions with these roles follow the rules Riot has set out.

you obviously dont know what I am trying to say. You obviously have some sort of hang up. I am saying as of yet no gravity mage or trapmaster exist and there is nothing that says they have to be of any defining role. It is up to us to establish their role. Therefore your points are completely invalid these champs can be any role. You are obviously caught up on some sort of "defined mechanics bit" too caught up to realize that these champs do not have any defining characteristics so they can be any role and assassins and marksman are not off the table. You obviously dont understand that simply point and click trap placement is boring. Yes a trapmaster is the defining characteristic but how they place the traps can be assassin like you are obviously an idiot. Yes these champs can fill any of those roles. Also Thresh is a complete tank a passive that increases armor and ability power and the fact that all of his abilities disrupt and are tanklike. like pulls and a slowing ult that rewards being close to an enemy. Strap some armor and ability power on thresh and you have a tank. Mainly armor magic resist also helps. He is not a fighter. Fighters are damage based. Thresh is not about the damage he is about the damage soak/displacement/cc. Therefor he is a tank not a fighter. I dont care what riot says. he is a tank look at his skills, They are tank skills.

Kamiroo Wolf1 votes

{quoted}

you obviously dont know what I am trying to say. You obviously have some sort of hang up. I am saying as of yet no gravity mage or trapmaster exist and there is nothing that says they have to be of any defining role. It is up to us to establish their role. Therefore your points are completely invalid these champs can be any role. You are obviously caught up on some sort of "defined mechanics bit" too caught up to realize that these champs do not have any defining characteristics so they can be any role and assassins and marksman are not off the table. You obviously dont understand that simply point and click trap placement is boring. Yes a trapmaster is the defining characteristic but how they place the traps can be assassin like you are obviously an idiot. Yes these champs can fill any of those roles.

Dude just let it go =_=

Vbunnie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kamiroo Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=005b00000000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-16T05:27:59.613+0000)

Dude just let it go =_=

You are right I probably should but he is getting me very upset. I hate people like him who do not know what they are talking about.

Kamiroo Wolf2 votes

{quoted}

You are right I probably should but he is getting me very upset. I hate people like him who do not know what they are talking about.

😑 You both made some good points and some ridiculous ones, but I think it'd be best if the insults and arguments just stop here.

Vbunnie1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kamiroo Wolf,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=vIVuR3BE,comment-id=005b0000000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-16T05:41:55.189+0000)

😑 You both made some good points and some ridiculous ones, but I think it'd be best if the insults and arguments just stop here.

I agree. You are right Kamiroo. It is good to see someone who supports peace. At least someone understood what I was trying to say.

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