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Twisted Fate [Rework Concept]

ModThe Djinn··42 votes·16,396 views

https://i.imgur.com/GtYayUJ.png Hey there, Concepts & Creations! Been a while since I've popped by with anything I've been exploring, but this seems to have gotten some initial approval from the people I've shown it to, so I may as well post it here.

It's a Twisted Fate rework, aimed at hitting home the fantasy from the A Twist of Fate cinematic, while also keeping as much of his existing kit as similar as possible. The end goal is a versatile skirmishing mage who can play as a mage, a marksman, or a hybrid, with a very wide list of build options. You'll see that this concept has kept numbers off, intentionally, as no doubt tuning and tweaking would be required to ensure that there's variety in his build paths and functionality.

Edit: For those interested, I took a spin at Mordekaiser as well!

https://i.imgur.com/GtYayUJ.png

#Stacked Deck [Passive] Twisted Fate gains AP based on his total bonus AD and his critical strike chance. Additionally, every third attack deals bonus magic damage, scaling off his ability power.

Jokers Wild [Secret Passive]: Two out of every 54 auto-attacks, chosen randomly, deal 1 point of bonus damage. Every 54 auto-attacks this passive resets.

Design Goals: This passive is what enables Twisted Fate's build diversity. He gets a bonus for auto-attacking faster, synergizes well with AP and AD, benefits from critical strikes, and can thus build pretty much any offensive items he desires while still remaining effective. Some tuning to his ratios may be necessary to enable this to work well, but the goal is to maximize build diversity.

His old passive was effectively just "+stats over time", which is rather unengaging, and also dangerous to have with his new access to better carry stats. As a result his passive has eaten part of his old E, which was a boring passive ability in the first place. It's a better fit for this slot, and opens up our E to emphasize the newer playstyle.

https://i.imgur.com/GtYayUJ.png

#Wild Cards [Q] Active: Twisted Fate throws three cards out in a 30 degree cone out to 700 range, dealing magic damage to all enemies they pass through. Enemies hit by more than one card take 30% damage from cards after the first. Wild Cards can be cast while moving.

Design Goals: By heavily shortening the range, tightening the cone, and adding a multiple hit clause, we encourage Twisted Fate to spend more time in auto-attack range, make his waveclear a little riskier, and generally transition him closer to a skirmishing ranged carry engagement range rather than someone who sits safely in the back tossing Qs out. As the goal is to make him more active, this seems a strong improvement.

https://i.imgur.com/GtYayUJ.png

#Pick a Card [W] Passive: Twisted Fate’s auto-attacks cycle through Red, Blue, and Yellow cards, resetting to a random color after 4 seconds of not attacking.

Active: Add a bonus effect to your next auto-attack within 4 seconds based on the color of Twisted Fate’s last card. Pick a Card stores up to 2 charges, with a 1 second cooldown between casts. 6 second cooldown between charges.

  • Blue Card: Twisted Fate throws a blue card, dealing bonus magic damage and restoring a portion of Twisted Fate’s mana.
  • Red Card: Twisted Fate throws a red card, dealing bonus damage and shredding the target’s magic resistance.
  • Gold Card: Twisted Fate throws a gold card, dealing bonus magic damage and stunning his target. Gold Card has an 8 second cooldown per target and, if used again on the same target within this time, will only deal bonus damage.

Design Goals: We couldn't remove this signature ability, but the old model of selecting cards as they rotate is a little difficult to do safely with the closer range and more attack-focused design. As a result, the pattern has changed to watching auto-attacks, which makes it easier to focus (as you see the effect strike your target) while still being rather clear to the enemy. It has an added benefit of reducing the number of times you can ensure you have a gold card up for your ultimate to those times when you can cook your auto-attacks on a target prior to teleportation, which reduces TF's nova potential from a successful teleport. With his kill-time lengthened slightly against isolated targets, we can put more power back into the rest of his kit.

The stacks were added so you don't necessarily want to use it on cooldown every time, which current TF is often encouraged to do by the inclusion of blue card, and red card has been changed to make wave clear a bit harder but give more single-target dueling power.

https://i.imgur.com/GtYayUJ.png

#Dealin’ Doubles [E] Active: Twisted Fate dashes a short distance to target location, and his next basic attack strikes twice, advancing two cards. Scoring a critical hit reduces Dealin’ Doubles’s cooldown by 25%.

Design Goals: A skirmishing TF needed a bit of mobility, which this gives him. The double-hit helps his burst, and also gives a skilled player more control over which card they want, as they can skip over a card that won't help them in the current fight while getting a nice chunk of damage on the back end.

https://i.imgur.com/GtYayUJ.png

#The Grand Reveal [R] Active: Twisted Fate’s team gains true sight of all enemy champions for a few seconds. After a 0.5 second delay he may cast All In once for the duration.

All In: Twisted Fate channels for 1.5 seconds, blinking to the target location upon completion.

Design Goals: Literally the only change here is making the names more card-related.

65 Comments

Ironclad Dragon8 votes

I've always liked calling his ultimate "All In"

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}

I've always liked calling his ultimate "All In"

That's a great idea for the second half. Consider it stolen. <3

HalcyonDweller7 votes

It's always a pleasure reading these when you post them. I wish I had something valuable to add but I just don't. I feel like the idea is great already and any feedback I could think of would be meaningless. +1

ModThe Djinn6 votes

{quoted}

It's always a pleasure reading these when you post them. I wish I had something valuable to add but I just don't. I feel like the idea is great already and any feedback I could think of would be meaningless. +1

Why thanks! I'll take that to mean that I hit the fantasy I was aiming for without diverging too much from the TF we all know and love. <3

HalcyonDweller2 votes

Yup! IMO you did :)

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

FlameHalbrdOkido3 votes

I don't think mobility is a bad thing, it just depends on how you implement it...on TF, how short a dash are we talking?

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}

I don't think mobility is a bad thing, it just depends on how you implement it...on TF, how short a dash are we talking?

Probably Vayne/Graves/Lucian distance or shorter. It's a skirmishing tool, not a distance-covering mobility option.

Míellá2 votes

hol' up. Is that confirmed or is that just a thing you want to happen?

ModThe Djinn10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legend Alpha ,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-17T17:40:21.052+0000)Is that confirmed or is that just a thing you want to happen?

This is a rework I came up with for fun, and is very much not a confirmed thing.

Sycoblast691 votes

But it should be a thing. Riot already has something like the E in place already (Lucian E into AA, or Ezreal E), so no new coding needed just some editing. Q and R aren't really changing and the passive is just numbers balancing to get right, so I'd guess this would be a relatively quick to implement set of changes!

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

But it should be a thing. Riot already has something like the E in place already (Lucian E into AA, or Ezreal E), so no new coding needed just some editing. Q and R aren't really changing and the passive is just numbers balancing to get right, so I'd guess this would be a relatively quick to implement set of changes!

Quick to implement mechanically, yes. W and E would require new animation work, and the passive would require extensive testing as you'd have to try multiple builds. So quick to hack together a test build, but not too quick to release.

Sycoblast692 votes

I really like your passive, and Q rework is solid. I'm concerned that an ASPD build could make timing up a Gold Card tricky though (.2 seconds to react when you are at the cap!). The card cycling mechanic on E gives him a place for TF mains to show mastery, which is cool.

FloRaider422 votes

Amazing work there, especially regarding the inclusion of so many different buildpaths without them feeling forced or obviously weaker/stronger.

[sg-lux]

Wouldn't people still use W for mana whenever the second charge would be full though?

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}Amazing work there, especially regarding the inclusion of so many different buildpaths without them feeling forced or obviously weaker/stronger.

Thanks! I've been having a lot of fun thinking about weird buildpaths you could take. The fact that Rylai's / Runaan's / Nashor's / Infinity Edge / Lichbane would be viable makes me smile.

Wouldn't people still use W for mana whenever the second charge would be full though?

Probably, yeah, which could be an issue. I'd have to see how the gameplay turned out, and whether or not that was deemed too un-fun.

Fine Ionian Silk2 votes

Hi Djinn! I just wanted to check out the TF rework you did and wanted to do a bit of a feedback drop too... albeit I don't exactly play TF outside of ARAM, so I'm not the most experienced when it comes to him.

**Passive -- ** This passive is a bit neat and it stems a little bit from Pyke's Bonus HP -> AD, right? It allows for some more interesting build options on TF and especially with the new AD item changes. I enjoy the passive and how much more interactive it feels with the player -- the current active just kinda being there to help with gold income. Getting bonus AP from Critical Strike chance feels a little bit weird though...? From the way I'm reading it, you seem to get AP ontop of the Bonus AD and Crit chance. With this, I'm kind of worried about you turning into the Strongest Autoattacker in the West, where your autos will just outshine other champions from the sheer amount of damage they can do. Granted, there are no numbers, but this is just a bit of a worry I get from it.

**Q -- ** Tightening the cone feels like a nice change. Overall, I would say that I enjoy this ability -- no complaints here.

W -- I'm glad to see this ability be here. I feel like it such an iconic ability for TF, it would be a shame to see it go away. However, I can't say that I'm really a fan with the new way it works. I understand the goal of the new card switching mechanic, but at the same time, the new one feels like it takes control out of the players hand. You can't pre-set a card as easily when goin' in for, maybe not an ult, but a flank. Additionally, this ability is dependent on attack speed -- which, alright, that's fine... but if you have too high of attack speed, you're goin' to be flippin' through the cards faster than you can spin the barrel (I apologize for another Wild West reference). Overall, I would say that I enjoy the previous W selection more -- since it gives the player more freedom and isn't reliant on attack speed.

As for the new gold card change -- I can see the reasoning behind it. With the new charge system going on (something that I'm neither for nor against), it makes sense for it to be there. Additionally, a point and click stun isn't exactly the best thing to play against, especially with the new shifting of focus into his auto attacks dealing a lot more damage.

_ E-- _ I'm not entirely how I feel about this ability. On one hand, I can see the need for having a dash with the new focus of this kit, but on the other... it just feels kind of strange. The TF now is a bit more immobile, so it feels kind of weird to see a dash on him (not to say that there shouldn't). As for the crit mechanic... I can't necessarily say I'm a fan of it. The ability for a crit to reduce this ability's cooldown feels a bit too far on the random side with me -- granted, a bit of randomness goes kind of along with TF (his current passive as an example). Still, I would've liked a different way of reducing the cooldown compared to critting (another thing I don't like is that you don't get crit to begin with, limiting this part of the ability till you get it), perhaps using his passive's third-hit mechanic?

_ R--_ You just had to change so much of this ability. My gosh Djinn, you ruined the entire thing. Jokes aside, I'm glad this ability is still here for the same reason I am the W -- it feels iconic for TF and it would be a shame to see it go. Only thing here is a name change, so not much else to say.

That's all I have to say! I hope you don't mind me takin' a glance, but it was an enjoyable read. I usually don't read reworks, but I'm glad I took a glance at this one. Good work, Djinn!

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}This passive is a bit neat and it stems a little bit from Pyke's Bonus HP -> AD, right?

It's similar, although unusual conversions are something I've been using for years. Pyke just happens to be the most recent example.

With this, I'm kind of worried about you turning into the Strongest Autoattacker in the West, where your autos will just outshine other champions from the sheer amount of damage they can do. Granted, there are no numbers, but this is just a bit of a worry I get from it.

Something to keep an watch and test for, definitely. Without any inherent AS or AD boosts though, and relying only on his E and passive for damage amplifications outside of that, I'm not super worried, as I suspect values can be tuned.

I understand the goal of the new card switching mechanic, but at the same time, the new one feels like it takes control out of the players hand.

That's somewhat intentional, actually, as the ability to ult-into-gold card into death was a large reason that TF couldn't have a lot of power in his base kit. You can actually select a card much faster in this system mid-combat, and the only control you really lose is the ability to pre-set a card without having a target to attack. At max attack speed you still also have a 0.4 second window for each card, which should be sufficient since they come at a set rate you can predict.

But yeah -- it does lose a little, but ultimately I think it's worth the cost to not have the player forced to split focus and timing on another UI element.

As for the crit mechanic... I can't necessarily say I'm a fan of it. The ability for a crit to reduce this ability's cooldown feels a bit too far on the random side with me -- granted, a bit of randomness goes kind of along with TF (his current passive as an example).

The crit was specifically in to make players more aware they could build other things, but I'd be open to exploring other options, especially if it felt too random in testing.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Those changes are awesome.

If I were going to suggest any changes, they would be to remove crit synergy (to solidify the on-hit/AP style) and/or to amp up the Joker's Wild passive. But I think removing crit synergy serious undermines your goals; I personally am not attracted to champs that have build variety of this kind, but I think this is a really clever way to do it. Kudos.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}If I were going to suggest any changes, they would be to remove crit synergy (to solidify the on-hit/AP style) and/or to amp up the Joker's Wild passive. But I think removing crit synergy serious undermines your goals; I personally am not attracted to champs that have build variety of this kind, but I think this is a really clever way to do it. Kudos.

The crit synergy is definitely part of my goal, although I know that's something that not everyone is going to love. And the Joker's Wild is really in there just as a joke -- it's FAR too unreliable for me to want to weave it in more. :P

Thanks for the feedback though! And for the compliments. <3

bélgaméte2 votes

A dash ? rly dude ?

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

A dash ? rly dude ?

Yep. Then the goal is to push him into being more of a close-range skirmisher, a dash is appropriate to help sell that fantasy.

Jet Sett1 votes

I've personally never felt like I could just Q a wave down safely and always needed a red card in there to clear the wave. I feel the projectile speed and his health/armor would need to be higher for that Q to be a good change for him. Other than that everything seems pretty neat.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

I've personally never felt like I could just Q a wave down safely and always needed a red card in there to clear the wave. I feel the projectile speed and his health/armor would need to be higher for that Q to be a good change for him. Other than that everything seems pretty neat.

Good point on the projectile speed. I'm not sure about the health/armor change, but that's something testing would help dictate.

Jet Sett1 votes

Yeah, I just brought it up because TF is generally pretty vulnerable to getting all in'd. He's better at poking and reducing his effective range endangers him to all ins.

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

I really like a lot of ideas with this rework. First, the passive opens TF up to more build paths with crit and AD, which can work really well especially with stuff like item 3124 or item 3085. Second, having the W Red Card be a MR shred, which feels a lot better than the slow. Lastly, while TF is immobile now it would be interesting to see him with some sort of dash.

Overall sounds like a lot of fun and it would be great in-game. If only Riot would do something like this.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-05-17T23:34:20.689+0000)Overall sounds like a lot of fun and it would be great in-game. If only Riot would do something like this.

Thanks. Always happy when my ideas appeal. And you're right -- figuring out weird and interesting build combinations is part of the fun of this idea. :)

Arakadia1 votes

Active: Twisted Fate’s auto-attacks cycle through Red, Blue, and Yellow cards, resetting to a random color after 4 seconds of not attacking. You can activate this ability to add a bonus effect to your next auto-attack within 4 seconds based on the color of Twisted Fate’s last card. Pick a Card stores up to 2 charges, with a 1 second cooldown between casts. 6 second cooldown between charges.

I would really suggest to just have the spell always end on the same card, be it blue, red, or yellow. Having it randomly choose if you don't recast is just unnecessary confusion to me.

Did you intend to have the spell always start on blue, red, or gold? As it currently is, the card selection process goes on in the background so dedicated TF players can count their cards in their head so they always know what card they will get when they instantly double cast W. Either way could work, I just think its significant enough to note.

edit: Being able to move while casting Q would feel really nice. I like that part a lot.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}I would really suggest to just have the spell always end on the same card, be it blue, red, or yellow. Having it randomly choose if you don't recast is just unnecessary confusion to me.

I mis-typed the functionality -- the cycling ALWAYS occurs on every attack, active or not. All you do is activate the effect after the color you want is tossed. The reset is to make it so you can't predict exactly when that card will happen, as otherwise if it, say, starts at Blue every time the trick is also one auto-attack followed by E into gold card 100% reliably.

Did you intend to have the spell always start on blue, red, or gold? As it currently is, the card selection process goes on in the background so dedicated TF players can count their cards in their head so they always know what card they will get when they instantly double cast W. Either way could work, I just think its significant enough to note.

They can't count in their head, as they need to attack to trigger the next card. There's no background counting, basically.

Salson1 votes

Very nice, the invisible power from Loaded Dice always put me off from the champion.

Just remove this:

Scoring a critical hit reduces Dealin’ Doubles’s cooldown by 25%.

Please no, having it reduced by Stacked Deck's proc would be much healthier, even if less thematic.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

Very nice, the invisible power from Loaded Dice always put me off from the champion.

Just remove this:

Please no, having it reduced by Stacked Deck's proc would be much healthier, even if less thematic.

That would be an easy swap to make, definitely, although if this were something I were honestly testing I'd stick with the thematic crit incentive, because it serves to remind people they can build critical damage, which is a valuable reminder to a champion with this crazy itemization. It would be an easy adjustment to make if it proves problematic though!

MH Remember Me1 votes

Sounds a lot better than what it currently is, i've always thought that twisted fate should have some sort of small mobility. I always saw twisted fate as someone with a showman/magician side to them and think a flashy/suave little dash would be very interesting, and his abilities reduce the cooldown on the mobility spell to encourage ability combos and move him away from gold card/wild cards then run until they're back.

When i say a flashy show off move, i mean something like this would be perfect, just tweak the animation to suit TF & League:

https://giphy.com/gifs/kPI5YwbI7k18P6srXh

Would be cool if he threw a card to a nearby enemy mid-jump.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MH Remember Me,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-05-18T10:47:57.207+0000)Would be cool if he threw a card to a nearby enemy mid-jump.

I thought about that, but the double-hit at the end seemed more reliable to me, and fit better with his W. The animation I was thinking of was more tumble than leap, but either has potential. A leaping twirl that ends with a double card toss would be pretty cool.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

Honestly, i like the idea of a TF rework but since i'm also a big fan of a game called "Lost Ark", there is a character called Arcana who fights with cards and here's how it looks: http://m-lostark.game.onstove.com/Class/Detail/Arcana

Just scroll a bit down and play the video.

BLIGHTBRINGER1 votes

I really like the fact that you shifted his power from his Gold Card and tried to make his other cards just as good.

I overall like how you're shifting his mage playstyle towards more basic attacking since he's kind of suppose to be fulfilling that destiny (when looking at the Fiddlesticks vs Twisted Fate trailer)

Shabada641 votes

As a TF Main and an ADC Main, I REALLY like this. Of course, TF would be in need of a few stat changes to fulfill roles as a Mage, Marksman, and Hybrid. I think a Movement Speed and Attack Range buff along with a very small Health, Armor, and Magic Resist nerf would suit him nicely. I believe these changes will give TF a small shift away from being a mid-range Battlemage and bring him a little bit closer to a mid-range Skirmisher.

The only part of this concept I'm not a fan of is the W. While I understand that 4 is an important number for TF (4 second cycling of W, bonus damage on every 4th basic attack, etc.) to represent 4 suites of cards (Hearts, Clubs, Spades, Diamonds), I feel like causing his cards to change every 4 seconds makes his windows of strength and weakness WAY too inconsistent. Also, I don't like how the current Red card causes an AoE Slow and how the concept Red card reduces Magic Resist. They both feel so underwhelming. A solution might be for the Red card to do both slow and reduce MR, or maybe the Red card can have a new effect altogether.

Again, really like the concept and hope that Riot looks into it! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}TF would be in need of a few stat changes to fulfill roles as a Mage, Marksman, and Hybrid.

Almost certainly! Those would have to be tested.

The only part of this concept I'm not a fan of is the W. While I understand that 4 is an important number for TF (4 second cycling of W, bonus damage on every 4th basic attack, etc.) to represent 4 suites of cards (Hearts, Clubs, Spades, Diamonds), I feel like causing his cards to change every 4 seconds makes his windows of strength and weakness WAY too inconsistent.

Well, remember that his cards actually change on every attack. 4 seconds is just the window where the next card becomes randomized rather than predictable, which is put in to stop the gold-card-cooking that, combined with his ultimate, makes him difficult to balance. Really what this says is "after 4 seconds, you need to pay attention to the color of your next attack rather than knowing what it will be automatically based on the color of the LAST attack." You'll still get the color you want within three attacks.

A solution might be for the Red card to do both slow and reduce MR, or maybe the Red card can have a new effect altogether.

The problem there is that I wanted to avoid Red Card and Gold Card having a similar output -- CC. Right now they each serve a specific role: blue for sustain, red for raw damage, gold for CC, and I don't want to blur the lines more if I can avoid it. I think the better solution might be to simply amplify the MR until it DOES feel good, or make it better than MR by simply making it amplify ALL of TF's damage against that target for X seconds.

Teridax681 votes

So the broad lines of this rework are to give TF free stats and a dash? I can see why this got upvoted.

Stuff I like about these proposed changes:

  • Turning Q into a shotgun ability I think adds a nice element of added risk to what is otherwise currently a pretty flat ability.
  • Passively cycling through card types with autoattacks I think is a model that makes much more sense than the current one, and could potentially make TF a lot smoother to play.
  • Being able to cycle quicker through cards on-demand looks appropriate.

Stuff I like less, or think could use improvements:

  • The stats-for-stats innate I think is less likely to generate build diversity as it is to homogenize TF's power across builds. If the goal is to enable different builds on TF, the better way to do it I think would be to have AP, AD and crit power different parts of his kits and enable different, yet functional playstyles. If nothing else, gaining free AP I think is likely to simply make TF's AP ratios more difficult to balance in a satisfactory manner, if champions on Live with similar free stat passives are anything to go by.
  • The three-hit passive may be a current mechanic on TF, but still doesn't seem to have gameplay of its own here. It's not bad, per se, but doesn't really seem to do anything in a kit that has potential for many more interesting card-related effects, particularly since it already overlaps with the bonus on-hit damage on W.
  • I'm not particularly sure if shotgunning is really TF's thing. I get that his Q needs some more interesting gameplay, but I'm not sure if turning it into a Swain Q really fits with TF's style of combat, as he tends to prefer fighting on the outskirts of battle a la Lucian, rather than diving targets at point-blank range.
  • Red Card I think still overlaps with Gold Card in that both prep targets for follow-up. Additionally, the addition of a charge mechanic feels unnecessary, and I think is likely to dilute both the power and choices inherent in the ability, when one gets to choose two out of three effects each time. It also doesn't really fit well with Gold Card in particular, as evidenced by the need for a per-target cooldown above.
  • I get that the intent is to make TF a more close-up champion, but I still fail to see any real justification for adding a dash onto his kit. Can a champion not be interesting or high-risk, high-reward without having a gapcloser?
  • The double-auto on E I think is also unnecessary, and I think the cleaner solution would be to simply have E reset TF's autoattack. That way, you'd get to cycle through cards more smoothly, without the need for as much power either.
  • The random elements in TF's kit are cutesy, but I feel are always going to be in this limbo where they're either not visible enough to matter (as is the case here), or too impactful to be worth having. It might simply be better to have the randomness apply to non-gameplay stuff, such as quotes or emotes.
ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}So the broad lines of this rework are to give TF free stats and a dash? I can see why this got upvoted.

At the risk of being a vast oversimplification of the changes, yes, sure. :P

The stats-for-stats innate I think is less likely to generate build diversity as it is to homogenize TF's power across builds. If the goal is to enable different builds on TF, the better way to do it I think would be to have AP, AD and crit power different parts of his kits and enable different, yet functional playstyles.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. The goal I had was to enable you to mix AP/AD/AS/Crit items in a manner no other character currently can, and converting stats to AP seemed the best way to make it easy to appreciate what a purchase could do for you while also ensuring that TF's approximate output is predictable. I'm not saying it's going to be perfect or wouldn't need more specific tuning, but it's the point where I'd start from to see if this approach is viable.

The three-hit passive may be a current mechanic on TF, but still doesn't seem to have gameplay of its own here.

The main reason it serves is similar to the crit reset on the E -- a soft reminder that this is a character who scales with Crit / AS, despite his AP ratios. It's a place where you could make changes, yes, but I tried to retain as much of current TF's kit as possible.

as he tends to prefer fighting on the outskirts of battle a la Lucian, rather than diving targets at point-blank range.

Currently, yes. I'd expect that to change a bit, with TF wanting to dive in at the last minute for a full-burst blast if he can get away with it. I was intentionally trying to incentivize him to play a little riskier.

  • Red Card I think still overlaps with Gold Card in that both prep targets for follow-up. Additionally, the addition of a charge mechanic feels unnecessary, and I think is likely to dilute both the power and choices inherent in the ability, when one gets to choose two out of three effects each time. It also doesn't really fit well with Gold Card in particular, as evidenced by the need for a per-target cooldown above.

The Gold Card / Red Card critique is pretty reasonable, and I'll think about it. I do like the charge mechanic myself (even with Gold Card, where you could stun two targets), but I suspect you're correct that it's not interesting enough with the choices so far.

I get that the intent is to make TF a more close-up champion, but I still fail to see any real justification for adding a dash onto his kit. Can a champion not be interesting or high-risk, high-reward without having a gapcloser?

The answer to the question is yes, a champion CAN be interesting without a gap-closer. However, in the fantasy I had in my mind of a acrobatic, skirmishing card-slinger I felt it was appropriate. You may disagree, but the addition of that ability was a thematic and gameplay choice for the fantasy I was targeting.

The double-auto on E I think is also unnecessary, and I think the cleaner solution would be to simply have E reset TF's autoattack. That way, you'd get to cycle through cards more smoothly, without the need for as much power either.

I should have mentioned that it does do that, yes. The goal was to enable you to attack, realize you needed an advance of +2 colors, and E so your next hit prepped the card you wanted. It may be that it needs a single attack that advances two cards, or slightly less damage on the secondary attack.

The random elements in TF's kit are cutesy, but I feel are always going to be in this limbo where they're either not visible enough to matter (as is the case here), or too impactful to be worth having. It might simply be better to have the randomness apply to non-gameplay stuff, such as quotes or emotes.

While I agree to a large extent (and cut most of the randomness), I do think a little is important to prevent the super reliable gold-card-into-ult that was a balance nightmare to deal with, and part of why TF's base kit hasn't had a ton of power for a long time. I wasn't comfortable cutting that entirely, and I suspect TF players want a little bit of randomness. I might not have hit the right balance, but it's a place I'd be interested to start testing.

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2018-05-21T12:35:02.888+0000)

We'll have to agree to disagree here. The goal I had was to enable you to mix AP/AD/AS/Crit items in a manner no other character currently can, and converting stats to AP seemed the best way to make it easy to appreciate what a purchase could do for you while also ensuring that TF's approximate output is predictable. I'm not saying it's going to be perfect or wouldn't need more specific tuning, but it's the point where I'd start from to see if this approach is viable.

"Agree to disagree" only works if two people operate on totally different principles without a common system of reference, which is not the case here. Outside of interaction with some items, runes and hidden mechanics, AP is unique among stats in that it has strictly no innate function on champions. Unlike, say, AD, which provides a consistent damage bonus to every autoattack, AP does not feed directly into any baseline component of a champion. The stat is only significant insofar as it is applied to intended scalings in a champion's kit: in your rework's case, converting AD and crit into AP is therefore equivalent to simply implementing AD and crit scalings directly onto TF's abilities, alongside his AP scalings. Because having parallel AP and AD scalings across all abilities means going for any build will inevitably cause the above kit to scale in a similar way, it therefore demonstrably generates homogenization. As such, any passive that generates permanent AP off of other stats tends to be little more than a superficial, crowd-pleasing mechanic that could just as easily be implemented with the addition or adjustment of other scalings. Incidentally, AP-related stats-for-stats passives are among the most common in League, so even if the intent was to enable a mix of stats "in a manner no other character currently can", the implementation is nonetheless trite.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2018-05-21T12:35:02.888+0000)

The main reason it serves is similar to the crit reset on the E -- a soft reminder that this is a character who scales with Crit / AS, despite his AP ratios. It's a place where you could make changes, yes, but I tried to retain as much of current TF's kit as possible.

Stats work around gameplay, not the other way round. If stats like attack speed, crit, and so on generate meaningful gameplay on TF, then it's simply a matter of identifying that gameplay and fleshing it out properly, if only by adding certain scalings to his abilities to signal value in certain build. Similarly, if a mechanic is well-liked on a champion, then that is all the more reason to at least try to integrate it better with the rest of their kit. Neither was done in the above kit, such that the innate could very well be literally any other mechanic and still be just about as relevant to the champion's gameplay.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2018-05-21T12:35:02.888+0000)

Currently, yes. I'd expect that to change a bit, with TF wanting to dive in at the last minute for a full-burst blast if he can get away with it. I was intentionally trying to incentivize him to play a little riskier.

So the intent is to retain as much of TF's identity as possible... but also completely change how he fights? What exactly is wrong with TF fighting from the edge of his short attack range? Why change this in favor of a dive-shotgun build, neither component of which was ever a part of his playstyle? I get that it's tempting to create parallels between TF and Graves for lore purposes, but TF isn't like Graves in any manner, and we don't need another variation of Graves in the game.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2018-05-21T12:35:02.888+0000)

The answer to the question is yes, a champion CAN be interesting without a gap-closer. However, in the fantasy I had in my mind of a acrobatic, skirmishing card-slinger I felt it was appropriate. You may disagree, but the addition of that ability was a thematic and gameplay choice for the fantasy I was targeting.

Where exactly is TF acrobatic, though? You mention A Twist of Fate, but in that video the most acrobatic thing he does is just turn in place as he throws cards, with heavy emphasis on him standing his ground. In his backstories, color story, and so on, there is strictly no mention of acrobatics either, only of his teleportation ability. I get that you wanted to achieve a particular fantasy, but that fantasy has about as much grounding as that of an acrobatic Kog'Maw.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2018-05-21T12:35:02.888+0000)

I should have mentioned that it does do that, yes. The goal was to enable you to attack, realize you needed an advance of +2 colors, and E so your next hit prepped the card you wanted. It may be that it needs a single attack that advances two cards, or slightly less damage on the secondary attack.

But why an advance of two cards? Why not simply an advance of just one card? Developing on this, why not have a charge-and-hold mechanic instead that would allow you to cycle through a certain number of cards? Throwing two autos sounds like a pretty costly side-effect if the main goal is to simply have TF cycle quicker to his chosen card.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=00160000,timestamp=2018-05-21T12:35:02.888+0000)

While I agree to a large extent (and cut most of the randomness), I do think a little is important to prevent the super reliable gold-card-into-ult that was a balance nightmare to deal with, and part of why TF's base kit hasn't had a ton of power for a long time. I wasn't comfortable cutting that entirely, and I suspect TF players want a little bit of randomness. I might not have hit the right balance, but it's a place I'd be interested to start testing.

The problem with this, as with any random effect, is that it doesn't actually prevent the gold-card-into-ult from happening entirely, it just makes it random. With the above, TF could just as easily get lucky and land a low-counterplay combo on his target. The better solution would therefore be to look into exactly what makes the combo so unhealthy, and try to address that directly: if the problem is that the combo deals too much burst, then it might simply be better to tone down or remove the bonus damage on gold card, or back-load more of TF's damage instead. Part of TF's current problem, for example, isn't simply that his Gold Card + ult combo is too reliable, but that his current E is also too reliable in how it can be pre-charged for additional damage, a problem the above rework does not appear to solve.

Also, as a side note, if the intent is to make the names on TF's ult more card-related, then "Showdown" may be more appropriate than "The Grand Reveal", as the former is an actual term in a card game (poker), whereas the latter is not. The showdown in poker is also the moment where all remaining players reveal their hand, which would make it particularly apt for an ability that reveals all players on the map.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

{quoted}The stat is only significant insofar as it is applied to intended scalings in a champion's kit: in your rework's case, converting AD and crit into AP is therefore equivalent to simply implementing AD and crit scalings directly onto TF's abilities, alongside his AP scalings.

This is not entirely true. AP values impact itemization such as Nashor's Tooth, Guinsoo's Rageblade, Luden's Echo, Deathcap, and Lichbane. Most of these are, in my opinion, cool items to enable TF to purchase, and they dramatically lose efficacy in a mixed build without a mechanic like this supporting them. This is a case where I am confident that this is the direction I would attempt to test first, and would remove it or adjust it as proves necessary.

Stats work around gameplay, not the other way round.

Psychologically it's a bit of both. In the past we've seen League champions get ratios cut, and a legitimate reason for cutting ratios is that having a ratio that isn't used can make players fall into traps with their builds. In this case I think the opposite is true, and HAVING ratios can ENCOURAGE experimentation that might not otherwise happen. Perhaps I'd be proven wrong, in which case those adjustments wouldn't be super hard to make.

So the intent is to retain as much of TF's identity as possible... but also completely change how he fights? What exactly is wrong with TF fighting from the edge of his short attack range? Why change this in favor of a dive-shotgun build, neither component of which was ever a part of his playstyle? I get that it's tempting to create parallels between TF and Graves for lore purposes, but TF isn't like Graves in any manner, and we don't need another variation of Graves in the game.

This is rather subjective. Regardless, the goal was to retain TF's identity in ability feel and recognition. It was not necessarily to preserve all of his existent play patterns. The primary reason for that change was to keep TF's ability to waveclear while making it a bit riskier and reducing his long-range poke damage so that more power could be shifted elsewhere.

Where exactly is TF acrobatic, though? You mention A Twist of Fate, but in that video the most acrobatic thing he does is just turn in place as he throws cards, with heavy emphasis on him standing his ground. In his backstories, color story, and so on, there is strictly no mention of acrobatics either, only of his teleportation ability. I get that you wanted to achieve a particular fantasy, but that fantasy has about as much grounding as that of an acrobatic Kog'Maw.

In my mind this is not the case, no. The video isn't 100% accurate to the vision in my head, but served as a starting point. If TF to you is not the sort to engage in dramatic, comic-book style skirmishes of agility and card-flinging, then perhaps our visions of what the character could be do not align.

But why an advance of two cards? Why not simply an advance of just one card? Developing on this, why not have a charge-and-hold mechanic instead that would allow you to cycle through a certain number of cards? Throwing two autos sounds like a pretty costly side-effect if the main goal is to simply have TF cycle quicker to his chosen card.

Because the charge-and-hold is a mechanic that feels awkward to me on a character who has become a bit more of a marksman in playstyle, and the advance of two cards serves as a bit of a skill test that allows good TF players to show mastery by timing it properly, whereas a weaker TF player might actually pass the card they need. It also means that an attentive opponent can force him past a needed card by forcing him to use his dash early and breaking his cycle. As I said, however, making it a single auto that advances two cards is a possibility if the balancing proves problematic.

The problem with this, as with any random effect, is that it doesn't actually prevent the gold-card-into-ult from happening entirely, it just makes it random. With the above, TF could just as easily get lucky and land a low-counterplay combo on his target. The better solution would therefore be to look into exactly what makes the combo so unhealthy, and try to address that directly...

I'm aware of this, and made the intentional choice to not remove it completely because I feel it's something a lot of TF players really value. It's worth remembering that this is not supposed to be a 100% polished product -- this is a set of changes I'd be eager to test, and would be adjusted based on the gameplay that results from them. In cases like this I'm okay with taking risks, especially when the solutions (don't reset the attack timers ever, adjust power in Gold Card as needed) are so obviously low-hanging.

It's not how everyone designs, but I'm okay with that, because the adjustments to many of these concerns are easy, but testing them A: possibly shows that they aren't a problem and that perhaps the feel good, and B: gets us useful data on gameplay feel that we can use in the future.

Teridax681 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

This is not entirely true. AP values impact itemization such as Nashor's Tooth, Guinsoo's Rageblade, Luden's Echo, Deathcap, and Lichbane. Most of these are, in my opinion, cool items to enable TF to purchase, and they dramatically lose efficacy in a mixed build without a mechanic like this supporting them. This is a case where I am confident that this is the direction I would attempt to test first, and would remove it or adjust it as proves necessary.

I don't really appreciate the fact that you clipped out the part of my quote that specified that AP did branch out to some itemization, as I mentioned here:

{quoted}

Outside of interaction with some items, runes and hidden mechanics, AP is unique among stats in that it has strictly no innate function on champions.

So yeah, AP does interact with some items, but that interaction is still not enough to justify a champion generating free AP. If the intent is to generate distinct playstyles, then having distinct scalings on your champion could achieve that, but as it stands your OP does not give any indication of what scales into your kit's active abilities, presumably because they remain full AP. Moreover, the problem with your passive is that it also forces your kit's abilities to have either lower bases, lower AP scalings, or both, precisely because their balance is going to be skewed by the amount of free AP getting purchased. You are effectively making it more difficult for TF to succeed with a mixed build, not less, and Kai'Sa is a good example of a champion who can have a mixed build without having to resort to power without gameplay.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

Psychologically it's a bit of both. In the past we've seen League champions get ratios cut, and a legitimate reason for cutting ratios is that having a ratio that isn't used can make players fall into traps with their builds. In this case I think the opposite is true, and HAVING ratios can ENCOURAGE experimentation that might not otherwise happen. Perhaps I'd be proven wrong, in which case those adjustments wouldn't be super hard to make.

Okay, but what does that experimentation actually mean, is my question. Sure, you can push players to go for a certain item on a certain champion, but that's not going to magically create a new playstyle out of the blue. Making players buy the items you want isn't really experimentation, it's just railroading them in a slightly different manner, since ultimately the result is still just one item build, particularly when said build wasn't given much meaningful forethought. The only kits that achieve more than that tend to have clear distinctions between AP and AD builds, rather than some in-between passive that blends the two together.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

This is rather subjective.

None of this is subjective, save for your own opinion on the matter. I asked a bunch of very simple questions that any designer should be asking themselves before reworking a champion, yet you still chose not to answer any of them. Once again, what was it about TF's range of combat that needed changing? "Don't fix what ain't broke" applies in full force here, and it's precisely when a designer puts their own preferences over those of the champion's playerbase, and decides to change gameplay that did not need to change, that a rework becomes less successful, if not an outright failure.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

Regardless, the goal was to retain TF's identity in ability feel and recognition. It was not necessarily to preserve all of his existent play patterns. The primary reason for that change was to keep TF's ability to waveclear while making it a bit riskier and reducing his long-range poke damage so that more power could be shifted elsewhere.

Sure, but that does not address the point. You yourself admitted you changed TF significantly in certain ways, so really, the end result is that you just cherry-picked which parts of TF's identity to retain. The goal here wasn't to "retain TF's identity in ability feel and recognition", because if that were the case you wouldn't have given him a dash. Again, by your own admission, you wanted to change TF so that he'd be closer to an imaginary version of him you drew from his cinematic, the latter of which did not even depict the fantasy your rework builds him around.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

In my mind this is not the case, no. The video isn't 100% accurate to the vision in my head, but served as a starting point. If TF to you is not the sort to engage in dramatic, comic-book style skirmishes of agility and card-flinging, then perhaps our visions of what the character could be do not align.

Perhaps, but my line of questioning here pertains as to how you decided to imagine TF in that manner to begin with. Sure, Gambit's popular and is an acrobat, but then practically any comic book character engages in acrobatics of some sort. That is simply how the medium is drawn. Giving a champion mobility just to have them mirror the dynamic movement of a comic book character isn't a particularly deep or unique idea, and applying it indiscriminately is not something that needs to happen in a game already saturated with unnecessary mobility. The problem here is also not only that the video doesn't 100% correspond to the notion of a mobile card-slinger, but that it has zero correspondence. Once again, there is literally zero indication in any of TF's stories, of which there are now quite an amount, that he's an acrobat. There is a significant difference between picking up on a preexisting, if muted aspect of a character, and fabricating one entirely purely to justify some design choice that otherwise comes out of nowhere.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

Because the charge-and-hold is a mechanic that feels awkward to me on a character who has become a bit more of a marksman in playstyle,

Varus, a marksman, has an ability he has to charge, and most charged mechanics currently belong on AD characters, who are encouraged to autoattack (Warwick especially). Not only is this kind of opinion subjective, it is one that goes against existing evidence.

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

and the advance of two cards serves as a bit of a skill test that allows good TF players to show mastery by timing it properly, whereas a weaker TF player might actually pass the card they need. It also means that an attentive opponent can force him past a needed card by forcing him to use his dash early and breaking his cycle. As I said, however, making it a single auto that advances two cards is a possibility if the balancing proves problematic.

How exactly is any of this different from simply setting oneself forward by one card, or catching TF one card behind? There's certainly more complexity to having TF auto twice, cycle two cards, or whatever, but does that kind of mechanic really carry more depth?

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

I'm aware of this, and made the intentional choice to not remove it completely because I feel it's something a lot of TF players really value.

Sure, but at what point do you value player preference for some flavor RNG, over a mechanic that has been proven to be unhealthy, and that is upsetting to players who have to deal with TF? Was one of your stated goals not to address the current issues with TF's gameplay?

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0016000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-21T19:52:30.027+0000)

It's worth remembering that this is not supposed to be a 100% polished product -- this is a set of changes I'd be eager to test, and would be adjusted based on the gameplay that results from them. In cases like this I'm okay with taking risks, especially when the solutions (don't reset the attack timers ever, adjust power in Gold Card as needed) are so obviously low-hanging.

Hold on. You're saying your rework is not intended to be 100% polished, and that's fine. However, what has just been told to you is that there is a fundamental problem with your rework, namely that by its own construction, it fails to achieve at least one of its core intended goals. That's not a question of polish, that's a question of you making deliberate choices that have been proven to be problematic in a live environment, under different iterations. As such, this whole line of argumentation feels more like yet another attempt to defend a questionable design choice, rather than a genuine admission of imperfection or willingness to improve, particularly since the near-totality of the reaction to my feedback here has been defensive.

ModThe Djinn3 votes

Your feedback is appreciated, Teridax, and I will keep it in mind if I come back to revise this. That said, given the tone of our previous interactions and the direction this conversation is going, I will respectfully bow out of this particular discussion with you. I have no interest in continuing a conversation that seems to be taking a similar tone to engagements we have had in the past.

Teridax681 votes

That is entirely your prerogative. My points, however, still stand, regardless of which tone one chooses to attribute to them.

ModEchoing2 votes

I'd really advise against this antagonistic approach to feedback on any concept in the future. The idea is to help people improve and refine their work, not for the person giving feedback to be proven right.

Teridax681 votes

That was indeed the intent here, as clearly noted by my feedback right from the start, which offered constructive criticism, and even cited examples outside of my own opinion that could help guide discussion. My issue here isn't whether or not I am proven right, as ultimately no part of this effort has to do with me, but whether or not the person to whom I am offering my time and feedback is actually ready to receive criticism of any sort. In the above comment chain, I was quote mined, and otherwise attempted to be discredited via aspersions cast upon my character and the nature of my feedback through tone policing, a tactic you are currently employing right now. A critique does not have to be pure adulation to be valid, and I do think I have the right to denounce tactics that do not demonstrate good faith, or an attempt at productive discussion. I understand that you want to defend your friend on this matter, but I am not the one at fault here, as I have taken the time and effort to contribute to this discussion, even if my feedback was clearly received with prejudice. It puzzles me that you would go all the way down this comment chain just for me, when plenty more people on this very topic, let alone in other threads, have made far less constructive criticism, or simply far less useful posts overall. What exactly spurred this kind of prioritization?

ModEchoing4 votes

Maybe I asked too nicely and used the wrong phrasing to imply this was up for debate.

It's not.

My issue here isn't whether or not I am proven right,

Then you don't need to leave off with a parting shot like:

My points, however, still stand, regardless of which tone one chooses to attribute to them.

Lay off the aggressive approach to feedback, and definitely lay off the personal snipes at me advising you otherwise.

As a tip: Line break more frequently. You have giant paragraphs that make it difficult to parse your posts when you're not forced to line break by quotes.

K l T T Y3 votes

Thank you Echoing, took the words right out of my mouth.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

KZ Engel1 votes

tf is fine how he is

ModThe Djinn1 votes

[{quoted}](name=KZ Engel,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=uw0n8tF8,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-05-21T21:32:38.078+0000)

tf is fine how he is

And that's a fine opinion to have! I personally think he's decent but opportunity exists to improve him. If you feel differently this suggestion may not be for you, which is perfectly reasonable.

K l T T Y1 votes

Check out Valhein's passive from Arena of Valor. would that be any good with TF?

Neishin1 votes

Well, I'm quite late to the party, but after reading all this (indeed a very good approach), as a TF main, I would like to make my own comments

  Passive :

  Because his passive ability is a very crucial part of a possible rework, I will slice it in two points, as below :

a) "Loaded Dice" is a unique passive, very useful, totally agreeing with the whole TF concept. Late game though, when everything is built, it becomes useless. So! Listen to one of my ideas! (ta-dah)

b) "Secret Stash" : After reaching ???? extra gold Loaded Dice's effect restarts. Twisted Fate channels for 1.5 seconds creating a secret stash at target location, filled of extra gold he earns from his passive (from now on). Then, Twisted Fate declares an ally as the "owner" of the stash. The "owner" (and only) has permission to open it and, by channeling for 1.5 seconds, receive the gold inside (180 seconds cooldown after each successful delivery). Enemies can discover the location of the stash, but cannot affect it. Secret Stash grants no vision.

    This can bring team members fallen behind back on their feet, while maintaining the stakes of a more painful onslaught (enemies can detect the 
    location). Meanwhile, TF stops having all this endless gold and easily change from one item to another, simply because he can. Now, the card 
    master must really be smart with his choices (the gold number limit is still debatable). Of course, there will be limitations about the stash's placement 
    (you can't just make the stash to your own base!). I think it's fairly simple, fun and balances evenly the stakes of the extra gold potential. It also helps 
    Fate's ability to snowball even harder and his utility based nature. After all, even scoundrels can be goldhearted! (you got it? gold- hearted.. nvm)

  1. The R's name "Destiny" is just too badass/cool to replace ("ain't fightin' destiny!"). It holds up deeply with the general idea of a witty, outsmart nature we all love in him -not to mention the mystic vibes according to his lore. The "All in" part, is totally cool and I love it hands down.

  2. Q to be able to be casted while moving is a very smart, and even essential change. We all know this feeling. The numbers can stay the same --and the hit-number limitation also (It rarely happens, and in late game teamfights I just find it ridiculous for a single Q click, to slash twice through a nervous ADC and possibly decide the whole teamfight -hence game).

  3. Small steps is something Riot loves to make for champions with a legendary/traditional kit. So, according to W : The rotation is beautiful. Should stay as it is, in my opinion. The card effects and their numbers, too. But though a dash was always a need for Fate, he should not get it. For balance reasons, mostly. So, considering the counter ability here (picture Annie's passive animation), it could work like this:

    "Each fourth cast different from the third, grants Twisted Fate with "Slick Steps" ,remaining 6 seconds after the card rotation begins (imagine his feet/ hands getting a very discrete blueish aura, implying the buff)

    "Slick Steps": Twisted Fate gains 10% movement speed that decays briefly and can move through units. The movement speed bonus and decay duration is doubled, if more than one enemy champions are nearby. Additional movement speed bonuses from the same resource are negated during the the effect.

     It works with his ultimate very smoothly, sticks with the "roam" element and gives him fair chances of escape quite often. It helps him become a better 
 lane threat, which he certainly lacks up to this point -especially with mobile and/or burst enemies. Meanwhile Fate does not become a broken machine 
 of horror, banished in every champion selection.

    4) I believe his E should stay like it is, since my focus was on the other abilities so changing this also is a bit too far.

       I hope you read this, find it 
   interesting and tell me your own thoughts about it. Cheers!

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