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Another Kindred rework idea

Ariel the Cruel·8/24/2017, 5:29:56 AM·16 votes·1,575 views

Inspired by this thread ; and my response against stance swapping.

So in looking at kindred, I want to set a few initial goals.

  1. Preserve regional mobility without creating another Lucion.

Since Her Q and Ult are really the only active components of her kit. E is just a 3-hit AA modifier, and W(olf) just isn't that intimidating.

  1. Make wolf more than just an effect particle.

Kindred should be the definitive duo-champion. Both Wolf and Lamb should actively contribute to game-play simultaneously.

  1. No stance swapping.

It just doesn't work that well. Gnar and Kled get by with it because they lack a choice. Not a mechanic that makes sense on the eternal hunters.

  1. Preserve Jungle viability.

No HeuHeuKaiser here. . . Hopefully. . . Intentionally. (>_>)

  1. Solve the "Early game ADC Hyper carry" problem.

They need early game power to fight other junglers and collect marks with only a slow. But then hyper scales off those marks into late game. So their only current options are to be weak all game and never scale, or steam roll the game. As long as this dilemma exists, viability is out of the question.

We can't just blindly add to a champion's kit. So second Goal is to identify what can be sacrificed. What doesn't work or doesn't fit? (Doesn't necessarily mean anything will happen).

  1. Passive.

I'm sure I'll take flack for this one. But it directly causes the "early game ADC hyper carry" problem.

  1. W(olf)'s circle of scary looks.

As stated above, wolf isn't scary. All this skill effectively does is lower her Q CD and add chip damage.

  1. E

It's not a bad skill. But it's not particularly interesting either. And it adds nothing to her play-patterns.

  1. R.

I'm personally fond of her ult. But it's not very thematic for the aspect of death to keep enemies alive. And while it's a handy anti-assassin tool; it also traps them (a squishy ADC) in a small circle with those will kill them anyways as soon as it ends. This honestly tends to cause as many problems for the team, as it solves for Kindred.

  1. Power Curve.

There's nothing wrong with an upside-down bell curve. But Kindred tends to go straight down or straight up with very little curve.

So.... Ya. Things are looking pretty bare bones at the moment. (>_>)

So now that foundation is set. Lets start building the framework.

To make 2 champions (goal 2) without stances (goal 3), we have to use the pet system. Which means either Wolf or Lamb are going to become a Shaco Clone. From a practical standpoint, it doesn't matter which. So we'll designate Wolf to minimize alienation. So already, we're eating a skill slot to control Wolf. Lamb's bunny hops (Q) are being preserved, which leaves 2 more abilities slots. To maintain tempo and cross-champion consistency, We'll make Wolf the ult. Then Give each of them one additional skill each (Lamb: Q & W, Wolf: E & R) and a passive for both. That just leaves the actual abilities.

Passive: "Never one - Without the other"

Wolf and Lamb are one. They can only be grey-screened by destroying both. When ever one of them dies, they go on a respawn timer equal to 1/3 the champion respawn value at the moment of destruction and Kindred loses access to their associated skills. If tech limitations require, wolf becomes the primary character while Lamb is destroyed. The destroyed spawns at the location of the surviving.

Lamb has 60% of Kindred's Total AD and 50% of bonus health and resists. Wolf has 50% of Kindred's Total AD and 60% of bonus health and resists. All other stats are shared at 100% Item effects (such as GA and Sterak's Gage) apply to who ever triggers it first. Potions affect both with 25% reduction on Wolf and 50% reduction on lamb. (Potential tech limitation?) Wolf and Lamb are both considered champions for all intents and purposes.

This is meant to reinforce the idea that Kindred is 2 champions, not 1. While still balancing their ability to threaten multiple targets.

Q: Dance of Arrows (version 1)

Lamb dashes in target direction and AA's the three nearest enemies [once]. Her last AA target, if in range, is prioritized.

If a target is marked by Wolf, Lamb may dash to anywhere around that target prioritizing them for an arrow.

Still keeping Lamb's mobility tool, but reworking the the regional application. Using this, Lamb can pursue targets with the relentlessness often associated with death. To the Dawngate fans out there, This version is inspired by Kensu.

Q: Dance of Arrows (version 2)

Lamb dashes in target direction and AA's the three nearest enemies [once]. Her last AA target if in range is prioritized.

Dance of Arrows Cooldown is reduced when used in the zone established by Wolf's Pursuit. A target marked by Wolf is always prioritized for an arrow if in range.

Keeping closer to the original version.

W: Lamb's Embrace

Lamb marks target enemy for 2 seconds. Each AA [from Lamb] against that target applies a stacks of lamb-chops (max 3) and extends the mark duration 1.5 seconds (max duration: 6.5 seconds). Wolf gains Bonus Move Speed and Attack Speed (per stack) for 2 seconds after attacking the target.

A Lamb ability that only helps wolf. Brings back the AS steroid from her live Q while empowering wolf's R.

E: Wolf's Pursuit

Wolf begins focusing on target enemy for 10 seconds. After Attacking that target 3 times, wolf marks them for 6 seconds. Marked targets take bonus %current health magic damage from Lamb's auto attacks.

[Q version 1] A circle appears around the target empowering Kindred's Q. [Q version 2] A static zone that empowers Kindred's Q is placed around the area where the mark was applied.

A Wolf ability that only helps Lamb. Brings back the lost %health damage and empowers Kindred's Q.

The idea behind having W & E not benefit the user is to reinforce, once again, that Kindred is a *duo-*champion. They work together. Neither ability has a cast time.

R: Wolf

Wolf is available at level 1 and controls like any other summon (R is used for pathing and has no cooldown). Wolf is considered a champion for all effects and abilities but does not soak experience if Kindred is alive (Someone will probably ask). Wolf takes reduced damage from non-epic jungle monsters.

If Wolf selects [for Auto Attack] a target with 3 stacks of Lamb-Chops he will dash to them, dealing bonus magic damage and applying a slow. He can dash to targets out-side his leash range, but will respawn next to Lamb immediately after.

Brings back the damage and Slow from Kindred's live E. Her jungling pattern should involve wolf taking ago. The damage reduction should compensate for his reduced defenses.

And that completes this draft of the rework proposal. I tried to preserve as much of their live kit as I reasonably could while still adhering to my initial goals. I'm not particularly great at theorizing numbers, so I opted to leave them out as much as I could. Unfortunately, stat distributions are where the numbers are most important (or if I should even split them at all). Meaning the passive details are where I'd need the most feedback. I also posted 2 versions of Kindred's Q because I wasn't sure how her players would respond to the change (as though I didn't butcher everything else).

F.A.Q.:

  • What About Kindred's ult?

Since I'm sure someone will ask. Yes, Her ult was partially preserved. For us mortals (eg. not the LC$), Their ult was primarily used as an anti-burst tool to keep Kindred alive. In lieu of that, They has the reduced pseudo-death timer when only half killed.

  • Why split Kindred's stats?

AD: Because this iteration has Wolf and Lamb Auto Attacking people. By having two AA sources, Kindred can effectively exceed the AS cap. See [reverted] rework Kog'Maw. Having double sources would also mean they gain Double efficiency from items. This works on Shaco, but his clone isn't permanently available. Defense: Because killing Kindred requires destroying Wolf and Lamb, it runs into the double efficiency problem [again].

  • Would Kindred follow normal skill ranking rules?

Treating them like Jayce would probably be the least confusing. Ideally, I think it would be more interesting is Q and R each had 4 ranks while W & E had 5 (or vice versa), then remove the the level restriction on R (Reference Udyr and Ryze).

9 Comments

Drynin8/24/2017, 5:33:24 PM1 votes

Hmm, I like the direction you took with this, and how the R is basically a permanent controllable minion type thing. My question on that is would R rank up accordingly and what would that do? Or would Kindred need to be made like another Jayce where their 3 base abilities all had 6 levels to them?

Also, I've always wondered why their W wasn't a targeted field around an enemy that broke if they got too far from Kindred. Right now, the primary counter play to the field seems to be to rush at Kindred and force them out of the field, because guess what? A squishy ADC wants to skirmish, but not get in melee range. Do you think it would be too powerful if the field followed the target enemy, and Kindred just had to keep in range of them? So the enemy has to make a choice of try to fight Kindred in this field and take Wolf harass, or run off, break the field and then re-engage if they do want to fight?

Mister Dark8/24/2017, 6:52:57 PM1 votes

So you want her to be like meepo from dota, sorry this won't work that we'll league doesn't have the micro manage to support this well. The only things I want changed about kindred is her passive attack range scaling it's not very good or makes sense to her lore or kit. I do agree on her w tho it's not very good or climactic and should be changed to fit them better

DistortPlus8/25/2017, 2:48:06 AM1 votes

I like how Wolf is like an old yorick ultimate that lasts forever. I like the split attack speed so that it doesn't exceed the cap. I personally think Wolf should be available at level 1, and it doesn't state anything about that though. I always thought it would be fun to run around as a minion instead of a champion, although i think wolf should have some of his own skills that are variations of kindreds (but a lot worse so people don't kill themselves to get wolf) so he isn't completely defenseless when lamb dies. I really like this idea though. good job.

Also, just a useless opinion that doesn't have anything to do with this but i wish wolf had more of a part of the champion, which is a reason i like this idea. In the lore lamb wasn't the one controlling wolf, they were friends who held each other back. Still though, this is a great idea and is one of the only rework i dead i actually believe should and could be implemented for kindred. Don't listen to the people who say that this will take too much micro-management, people play champions like Lulu, old Yorick and new Yorick, heimerdinger (doesn't really count though) and Lee Sin. Amazing work.

Staraxia8/25/2017, 5:33:34 PM1 votes

It would seem you have put more thought into this then I have and I am a fan of this idea, this was just a random thought I had of them being unbiased to if you are or aren't on their team where they would be able to kill a very low health team mate (~5%) giving 50 gold but the last enemy to attack them would still get assist gold so it would be viable to prevent an enemy who can tower dive without much risk from finishing low health allies but not viable to starve an enemy of kill gold entirely. Either way I hope riot is to find this because wolf really does just seem like an over glorified pet which he shouldn't be.