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Remove Runes and Masteries. (Scarra Inspired)

tyroo··25 votes·2,282 views

While I was watching Beyond the Rift (a really great series for anyone who likes league) my boi Scarra made a point that is hard to deny the logic behind. Basically he said that balancing League with Runes and Masteries still in the game is nearly impossible. You have to basically balance around what works best on a champion in terms of R&M (Ima use this because I refuse to type it out each time). People always find what mastery and rune page works best on a champion and then that becomes the norm.

I will use Zyra as an example to help clarify a little. Zyra is so strong right now because of thunderlords, she has an easy time getting a free proc in lane because of her plants from relative safety. Since she is so oppressive botlane with the use of this mastery she may receive nerfs in the future (God Please PLease PSLEKDSD). These nerfs will hopefully bring her in line with other champions. In her nerfed state you are then FORCED to take thunderlords or be useless, because that is what made her strong enough to get nerfed in the first place. (I am trying to put this into words as best as I can, SORRY). Basically the majority of champions are balanced around what is best on them and if you take anything other than that it seems almost impossible to win.

Now we can talk about runes, which is the exact same concept. Have you ever played marksmen without the basic AD reds, Armor yellows, MR blues, and AS quints for runes? It seems like it is just easier to lose to the other ADC, even though they could be playing noticeably worse than you did. God forbid you accidentally have AP runes when you're in the botlane position (Unless you are Ziggs, because thats a thing now). It is basically an auto loss unless you have an extreme matchup advantage. Lets imagine you are in the opposite position and you are already playing a hard matchup and ALSO have the wrong runes. Kiss your hopes and dreams of winning goodbye because its just not gonna happen.

Why should Riot give themselves a headache trying to balance around what people MIGHT take because its the best choice? If R&M were removed the balancing part of the game could be made exponentially easier. I understand they can make someone feel like they have some degree of customization, but is that really worth it if the player took the wrong R&M? Starting the game off with a disadvantage that wouldn't be there if you had the correct setup will never feel good.

Instead of R&M Riot could just alter the base stats/growth stats of champions to fit whatever role or class they fit into. Balancing around a champion who has the same stats each game sounds a lot easier to me. I am linking the Beyond the Rift episode where Scarra talks about this so you have more clarity because IK this wasn't explained as well as it could be. I expect Riot would provide compensation for the champs who lose a lot from this changes and nerfs to the champs who still end up above par.

Thank you for your time reading this and please leave thoughts below. I also HIGHLY recommend you take a look at the youtube video because it makes quite a bit more sense when scarra talks about it. Please upvote if you think these changes would improve the healthiness of League as a game. It would take a little time to get everything in line if these changes ever happen but after that the game would seem to be much more healthy.

MAKE LEAGUE GREAT AGAIN!!!!

33 Comments

BastionKross4 votes

I think it's getting to that point where runes and masteries can be considered expendable.

Masteries (keystones in particular) just add too much damage to the game. They can break champions easily (Zyra is just one example), and they create this situation where a champion has been nerfed so much because of their synergy with keystones that if you don't take what's optimal you're significantly handicapping yourself.

Runes aren't as bad as masteries are balance-wise, but they should be gone simply because of how much of a pain in the ass it is to save up IP to buy them and their pages. You can easily spend double or triple a new champion's IP cost just on an additional rune page and runes to fill it with. That's disgusting, even if you reuse some runes you already bought previously.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

i think the keystones introduced during season 6 was the worst part of the season...

i think it created the most issues regarding game and yes im puting that over the dynamic queue

BastionKross3 votes

I think we can all agree that season 6 had many, many issues.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

i said this a long time ago about people bitching over balance, the cost of runes and the broken keystones...

i said do away with runes and masteries and balancing the game would be easier i got hate so bad ...

tyroo2 votes

Together we can MAKE LEAGUE GREAT AGAIN! But honestly there aren't really any options better than this to improve the healthiness of League. I personally still love watching the game but playing it atm is tedious to me because the meta and what is strong seems so much farther up in terms of power than everything else.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

well im trying ... im trying to change the mindset of the community and the game by advocating having fun and enjoying the game and not taking it overly serious and to quit crying and bitching over everything... cuz in all honesty all that crying and bitching .... is what made the mess we are in now

Hammermancer1 votes

well in all honesty theres nothing wrong with the idea of runes and masteries, but i feel as though they need to be further diversified and easier to access and alter

i'd like to make a counter point that maybe these should be accessible IN GAME and you allocate mastery points in game quickly (Shop screen?)

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

well ideally the system is flawed ... to really balance the game is to due away with it... therefore you can balance champs and items based on their stats alone...

league made the mistake of trying to have a lvl system and unlocking runes. masteries , etc similar to other mmos like WOW but league isnt like that... its a legit is strategy battle game.

and the way the system works it works against new players, lower lvl players etc but then again so does the mindset of the player/community... i remember when i started league i didnt once or even dare to go rank til i had a least 300 wins in normals due to the vast complexity of the game and champs. items, masteries, runes etc...

now you see people go into rank with 20 wins at lvl 30 and it becomes the clown fiesta every one cries about sub gold elos

Crimsonhaseo3 votes

Ok haven't read all the other comments following this but here's what I have to say. If you want to claim that Runes and Masteries make so much of an impact that you should do away with them, then the same would apply to Items you buy and build. Cause hey, if I'm that ADC who has AP items then it's the same as that ADC with AP runes, I might have some extra AD on them and do some good dmg but I just don't have the same dmg as that ADC with the "normal" ADC build.

What you are saying is that you want League to be so much of a "normal" game that the only differences between champs is who can land their skills and who has CC. This is also the same as crying out for a nerf to Jax just cause he gets Guinsoo's Rageblade in his build and goes to town with his passive as well, when the fact is that anyone can get the item and build around his dmg or have a CCer hold him still so his stacks drop, or hey just be a mage and blast him before he hits you while he's dealing with the tank. League has so many possibilities so situations that can make a champion so OP that people cry but you have to find the situation and most have things that can turn them around. The ones that don't have that turn around are what needs to be looked at. This is what the devs are doing when they go about doing balances, they look at the situations that can't be easily turned around by a decent player and see what is making this champ so OP right now and see if nerfing is needed.

GigaPube3 votes

it would be an unfathomably massive clusterfuck. riot would not and should not throw away no less than an entire year of absolute and horrendous balance issues for the sake of a bit more longevity for competitive integrity. its literally stupid to sacrifice so much for so little in return when the predominance of the fanbase just cares about assassins and skins . this is one of those things where they then say "i dunno maybe its stupid" and it....it just is. the suggestion, just to bring it up and have it out there, is fine, but it could never ever work for league to do this and remain the dominant multiplayer game without too many people ragequitting at once and having it become a point of no return for popularity. not feasible at all. removing runes, maybe, but removing masteries and trying to balance it out would just take way too long and would annoy way too many people when its 6 months in and they only rebuffed some peoples main champions like only one time after the masteries removal and so they quit and the league bubble bursts

TwinkiePro2 votes

I play Jhin with full attack speed runes and scaling Mr and fervor. Not entirely sure what my total win rate is with this build but it is certainly above 60 percent. I build what I want.

Meta Phyton2 votes

That really makes a lot of sense. I like runes but if it's better that they're gone, I'd let them go without crying over it. Actually as much as I have a lot of fun tweaking and creating different playstyles out of runes, I see them as a bit of a pandora's box too - like, a wild and unpredictable element that really puts things on a chaotic, uneven keel

Hammermancer1 votes

can i get my IP back? I really enjoy collecting runes, and i paid cash for pages so like.. can i get that back too?

Freaky Ivern1 votes

Im pretty sure riot already said that they would not refund previously bought runes/pages when they rework/remove the system. they might give the RP back, although i doubt that that will happen. you will most likely get a summoner icon or something like that lol

EDIT: found a post where riot talks about the system: http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/community/q/ask-riot-runes-splash-art-and-buttons

Hammermancer1 votes

Ok i'd be happy with a mystery skin for every complete set of runes (so for my lethality quints i'd get a skin, for my mana regen blues I'd get a skin, etc)

Weathered1 votes

I agree that removing or re hauling runes/masteries would be good, but please don't use "make League great again". We've always had this rune system, and the old mastery system was even more cut/paste and repetitive. Just make League great in general.

tyroo1 votes

I'm not saying that the Runes and Masteries are the sole problem for League. But I am saying that removing them can help fix the healthiness of the game overall. Also the new keystones have been nightmares to balance. Before the keystones were out the game seemed to be in a healthier spot.

MAKE LEAGUE GREAT AGAIN!!! Is mostly just for the memes lol.

MAKE LEAGUE GREAT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blåbæret1 votes

{quoted}

I agree that removing or re hauling runes/masteries would be good, but please don't use "make League great again". We've always had this rune system, and the old mastery system was even more cut/paste and repetitive. Just make League great in general.

Fail to see how the old system being "repetitive" has anything to do with a thread about balance. The new masteries are just a massive headache we could do without. Don't need Something that causes so many balancing issues.

50000000000000001 votes

I think Runes and Masteries are important part of the full build. Rework the system maybe (new players not getting access to them is kinda ridiculous), but we still need something.

Terozu1 votes

Yeah no runes only provide an early game advantage, that's it, if you can play safe for like the first 10 minutes, you win, with the exception of death time reduction runes.

3TWarrior1 votes

the key word is "advantage" , without that "advantage" , another player is at a disadvantage not by skill but by stat checking

it is not fun to play against fully-defensive brawlers who were not designed as a champion at low level to be able to fight 2 against 1

WarlordOfBarsoom1 votes

Being able to customize something the way I want to is a huge reason why league has stayed my favorite game. Smite, Hero's of the storm, Even Dota are missing this important aspect. If I want to play AP alistar I should get to play what I want to play.. I have always come back to league, While I think the keystone masterys were a terrible introduction to league I honestly love the idea of changing the way I play my champ, just kills keystones or get rid of the ones that are hard to balence. They can make the game balenced but they choose to keep the meta in an uproar. They constantly are cycling through champions.

Pyrokineticmage1 votes

{quoted}

Being able to customize something the way I want to is a huge reason why league has stayed my favorite game. Smite, Hero's of the storm, Even Dota are missing this important aspect. If I want to play AP alistar I should get to play what I want to play.. I have always come back to league, While I think the keystone masterys were a terrible introduction to league I honestly love the idea of changing the way I play my champ, just kills keystones or get rid of the ones that are hard to balence. They can make the game balenced but they choose to keep the meta in an uproar. They constantly are cycling through champions.

Well the counter argument is that the customization is more of an illusion. Since there is always the optimal build that almost everyone follows. Even my "customized runes and masteries" are basically the same as high level players. There is no difference anymore.

For example, an Ahri with no thunderlords in its masteries would be significantly weaker than with thunderlords. Especially since Riot decides to balance Ahri towards that optimal masteries.

WarlordOfBarsoom1 votes

I change my masteries depending to what I am feeling, and the same goes for my runes. I understand what you are saying but don't always play what the pros play nor do I jungle what the pro's jungle. Nothing wrong with being different if you can make it work and be effective. Just because something is meta at the time does not make it perfect by any means. I also said that I think that keystones brought way to many problems to the table. They were a cool idea but if keystones went away I think it would bring back solid gameplay.

SteelMankind1 votes

Alternative opinion: Masteries and runes are choices which have a noticeable impact on how a champion is played. There ARE multiple keystone choices for most champions, not just one good one. Temporarily OP keystones keep the game fresh and exciting.

Runes are less flashy, but still very important towards customization. Playing Dr. Mundo and want extra damage over tank stats? Magic pen marks and quints. Want to be able to kill backline minions of the first two waves as Ekko with only two Qs? 8 flat AP glyphs, though keep in mind youll be vulnerable against the likes of LeBlanc without MR. Want to maximize Q poke as Varus? Lethality marks and quints, but remember that your DPS will suffer compared to a standard ADC page.

Every time I see one of these topics where people complain about how boring runes and masteries are because "there's only one real choice", all I hear is "I'm bad at math so I just do what champion.gg/LeagueOfGraphs/ProBuilds says"

Pyrokineticmage1 votes

The problem is that the current "customization" is an illusion. The current masteries and runes used by everyone is nearly the same since there is a most optimal build. Especially when riot balances champions around those masteries and runes.

Sure you can do your own "customization" but between equally skilled players the one with the more optimal masteries and runes will win.

SteelMankind2 votes

Except there isn't one optimal build for most champions. I already showed that there are multiple viable rune setups.

Keystones are even more flexible. Aurelion Sol, for instance, synergizes well with Deathfire Touch due to his sustained AOE damage output, and draws out Corrupting Pot burn for cheesy level 1 damage. Stormraider's Surge is great on him, and the most popular, because of how important positioning is. King Cobra, a Master tier Aurelion Sol player, takes Thunderlords to help snag kills when roaming.

Point is, almost every champion has at least two great choices for keystones. Really, the only class that's at all lacking in variety are Assassins - TLD is just too useful for bursting, and SS is generally not needed (though Scarra takes it sometimes on Talon). Every other class in the game has a real choice that is not just "which one is the best in every situation".

3TWarrior1 votes

they really should remove them as so many balance issues revolve around them

yeah, it's fun to fight an enemy that only beats you by stat-checking early game XD (sarcasm)

runes and masteries can bring someone 20 even 30 points above you in some stats

Sraeg20131 votes

The way I see it, runes are fine. They have clear trade-off, you can mix them to your hearts content, without ever being too overbearing.

Masteries however... With Keystones around you can't get any of that. They consists of 90% damage while not getting a Keystone is a death wish and half of them are outclassed to begin with.

Cowseed1 votes

Poppy

Just gonna leave this here.

yingwhy1 votes

Riot won't do it. They would have to refund so much IP that everyone would have every champion

Arakadia1 votes

I don't think Masteries are all that bad, although they offer too much offensive power imho.

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