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All 5 of the SSW Skins are for Male Champions - Is this 1850? A Feminist Speaks Out

Hal Su Ice0··7 votes·20,235 views

Edit II: At the present moment, the poll is in shambles and I believe this to be due to the length of my post. People are just coming in and voting in the poll immediately without reading through the post, so please don't pay heed to the poll numbers. I believe that any sensible person who reads through all of the examples I have given in my post will agree that Riot has shown a pattern of sexism in its champion and skin design. Please read before voting.

Edit I: A lot of people have taken this post to mean that it is appropriate to attack me with slurs and insults to my intelligence - this is not the case. Be warned that the moderation team is now watching this thread like hawks.

Hello everyone. It has come to my attention while I was browsing the 5.9 patch notes earlier that there is a new skin theme, the SSW Skin Theme, that gives five champions a nice new skin, sponsored by our favourite electronics company. Unfortunately, the percentage of these skins that are going to male champions is 100%, and the corresponding percentage for female champions is 0%. This demonstration of inequality in Riot Gaming's treatment of its male and female champions is inappropriate and sexist, and for me, it is the final "straw that broke the feminist's back", so to speak.

This is not the first time we have seen male champions getting the "long end of the stick", so to speak, within League of Legends. Did you know that the ratio of male champions to female champions is 124 to 82? Did you know that the total number of male skins in the game is 41% higher than the number of female skins? Can you believe that in addition to these telltale statistics, a vast majority of the female skins and champions are sexualized for the straight man's* viewing pleasure?

But wait, that's not all! Did you know that during the world cup last year, the login screen featured seven male champions sporting their World Cup skin themes, and zero women? And did you know that out of the six champions that received skins in the Chroma debut, only one was female? It is clear that at the Riot Headquarters, the representation of women in their game, as well as the idea of womens' sports, are just laughing matters.

In conclusion, in order to "vote with my dollar", so to speak, I will be girlcotting all Samsung and League of Legends products, sending a letter of dissatisfaction to Samsung, and amending my F rating for Riot Gaming on the Better Business Bureau's website to include this latest offense. I urge all feminists to do the same so that we can send a clear message that this pattern of male favouritism is not tolerated outside of Riot's Headquarters.

*also included within my use of this term are all other groups of people who find viewing pleasure in the sexualization of female champions

408 Comments

Riotmoonstones47 votes

Hiya,

Just wanted to jump in here and explain the decision making behind the SSW Championship skins.

Each one of these skins honors a player of Team Samsung White, the winners of the 2014 League of Legends World Championship. These skins are representative of the following players.

Looper: Singed Dandy: Rengar Pawn: Talon Imp: Twitch Mata: Thresh

You can read more about these skins and the players in the esports announcement.

Hal Su Ice02 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2015-05-14T17:11:11.831+0000)

Hiya,

Just wanted to jump in here and explain the decision making behind the SSW Championship skins.

Each one of these skins honors a player of Team Samsung White, the winners of the 2014 League of Legends World Championship. These skins are representative of the following players.

Looper: Singed Dandy: Rengar Pawn: Talon Imp: Twitch Mata: Thresh

You can read more about these skins and the players in the esports announcement.

Thank you so much for shedding light on this matter. A lot of people were falsely claiming that the players themselves had chosen these champions to receive skins, but as it turns out this was not the case. I don't mean to be disrespectful to your office, but it seems to me that the people selecting the skins went out of their way to choose male champions, as the article admits that while Pawn did not play a lot of Talon at worlds, this is the champion that was chosen to honor him.

Trick1F20 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=00210001,timestamp=2015-05-14T17:23:50.597+0000)

Thank you so much for shedding light on this matter. A lot of people were falsely claiming that the players themselves had chosen these champions to receive skins, but as it turns out this was not the case. I don't mean to be disrespectful to your office, but it seems to me that the people selecting the skins went out of their way to choose male champions, as the article admits that while Pawn did not play a lot of Talon at worlds, this is the champion that was chosen to honor him.

Jesus Christ Katey. You DID necro the damn thread.

They went out of their way to pick Champions that the players PLAYED. THIS HAS BEEN SAID TO YOU FOUR DOZEN TIMES.

Do you know why Pawn received Talon? Of course you don't. Do you know who he DID play a lot of at Worlds? Of course you don't.

In the final against Star Horn Royal Club he played - Jayce, TALON, Fizz, Orianna.

It was a decision between Jayce and Talon and they chose Talon. He DID play Talon in the playoffs. He played it in the CHAMPION match. Aside from Orianna (WHICH THEY ALREADY HAVE A CHAMPIONSHIP SKIN FOR SO THEY ARE NOT BEING SEXIST) the options were ALL male.

The skins were chosen for champions that the players were KNOWN for or AMAZING on.

FOR THE 1,000TH TIME AND I WILL KEEP COMING HERE TO PROVE TO YOU WHAT YOU CONTINUALLY DENY....you are wrong.

Hal Su Ice01 votes

{quoted}

x

As stated on the official article, "Pawn didn't play a ton of Talon at Worlds 2014", but he was still given the skin. Do you think I am going to believe you over the official source?

Trick1F21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=0021000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-14T17:36:21.417+0000)

As stated on the official article, "Pawn didn't play a ton of Talon at Worlds 2014", but he was still given the skin. Do you think I am going to believe you over the official source?

LoL in your original comments you didn't even believe that they got these skins for a reason. You even said that you didn't receive a survey to get YOUR skin. LOL.

I don't care what you choose to believe in. You choose to be wrong. That is your choice.

Because I know you run away from facts, every time, I went ahead and decided to wreck you again.

Throughout the entirety of the 2014 Championship series, Pawn played the following champions:

Yasuo x 2

Kassadin x 1

Orianna x 2

Talon x 2

Fizz x 4

Jayce x 4

Those are facts. Most people, myself included....you know, people who actually pay attention to facts and details, thought Pawn was going to receive a Jayce skin. Hmm, that's weird, Riot JUST released a Jayce skin called Forsaken Jayce. I doubt they wanted to double dip and waste all their time making TWO skins for the same champ to be completed around the same time.

Not long before they had released a Fizz skin, and they already have a season 2 championship TPA Orianna skin.

Project Yasuo was released September 9th.

Golly gee willickers Little Pecan, whatever could that mean?!?!?!

Talon.

It's fracking Talon.

It's a Talon skin.

Because reasons. And logic. And money. AND NOT BECAUSE HE'S A G** D*** MAN.

Get rekt. Again. I will burn your comments in this thread for eternity with the fire of a thousand suns because of how wrong you are.

Killed Inaction21 votes

{quoted}

Get rekt. Again. I will burn your comments in this thread for eternity with the fire of a thousand suns because of how wrong you are.

Careful. "Sun" is too close to "son" to not be sexist.

Retillin16 votes

No, posts like this should NEVER get a Red reply. OP here just wants to be a "special snowflake". This is the type of trolling that should be ignore by everyone. Adding it to the Red Tracker only makes it worse.

Hal Su Ice01 votes

{quoted}

No, posts like this should NEVER get a Red reply. OP here just wants to be a "special snowflake". This is the type of trolling that should be ignore by everyone. Adding it to the Red Tracker only makes it worse.

When 7 out of 10 posters in this thread were throwing out false facts saying that the SSW players chose the champions to get skins, and they were using those false facts to invalidate the fact that this game has a sexism problem, then I think it's appropriate for a Red poster to come in at least to clear the air.

Frankly, if you want to call me a special snowflake or a troll, I have no regard for that opinion or most others provided by this community, considering that the community believes a game having 1/2 the female champions as it has male champions and 1/2 the female skins as male skins is not enough to say that the game does not have equivalent gender representation.

Trick1F7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=002100030001,timestamp=2015-05-14T18:29:25.168+0000)

When 7 out of 10 posters in this thread were throwing out false facts saying that the SSW players chose the champions to get skins, and they were using those false facts to invalidate the fact that this game has a sexism problem, then I think it's appropriate for a Red poster to come in at least to clear the air.

Frankly, if you want to call me a special snowflake or a troll, I have no regard for that opinion or most others provided by this community, considering that the community believes a game having 1/2 the female champions as it has male champions and 1/2 the female skins as male skins is not enough to say that the game does not have equivalent gender representation.

7 out of 10? Lel. You just made up ANOTHER statistic. Keep making stuff up pecan. Whatever makes you feel important.

This game has a sexism problem? Because SSW players chose to play male champions?

Can you even name one female champion they could have made a skin for?

Nope.

Because you're still on your soap box, preaching to the emptiness.

You want equivalent representation. What we have is proportional representation. To demand more is sexist. And it's hilariously ironic you don't see it.

Yakas5 votes

{quoted}

7 out of 10? Lel. You just made up ANOTHER statistic. Keep making stuff up pecan. Whatever makes you feel important.

This game has a sexism problem? Because SSW players chose to play male champions?

Can you even name one female champion they could have made a skin for?

Nope.

Because you're still on your soap box, preaching to the emptiness.

You want equivalent representation. What we have is proportional representation. To demand more is sexist. And it's hilariously ironic you don't see it.

What I think is funny is that she thinks the people who said that aren't right. If I play half my lcs games as rengar and the other half as udyr, don't you think riot would ask, " what champion would h like to see?"

Dr Poro3 votes

Why are those players all playing male champs? That's so sexist. Everyone should be forced to play atleast 1 female champion in each match. There must also be a black champion and an asian per match. Not to forget a latin american. Oh and at least one champ with a physical or mental disability.

hooray equality!

Richard40 votes

Give me a break. Jesus Christ.

Boycott the boards while you're at it.

Alljoy18 votes

I think you mean, *girl-cott. Trundle

Richard15 votes

You mean the word she invented because she's so allergic to anything even containing the word 'boy' it forces her to become illiterate? Seems legit.

Serevas16 votes

I can't tell if you're trolling or not.

lightdragoon8815 votes

http://www.troll.me/images/bert/whatthefuck-did-i-just-read.jpg

UseCodeTempo12 votes

Im a feminist but this is the most bullshit post I've seen in my life summoner 3

Sinister Snail11 votes

No, this isn't 1850. There were much more legitimate feminist complaints than "not enough aesthetic options in a video game" back then.

Trick1F8 votes

{quoted}

No, this isn't 1850. There were much more legitimate feminist complaints than "not enough aesthetic options in a video game" back then.

Well played.

Colgate Gator9 votes

If anything, go complain to the members of SSW for not using/prefering female champions, I guess.

So let me get this straight, Riot didn't add a girl skin to the group skin, no matter if they are releasing female skins over and over, you're going to """Girlcott""" them "and amending my F rating for Riot Gaming on the Better Business Bureau's website to include this latest offense".

You aren't even a fan of this game, you're just looking way too for things to stir up problem about. Instead of nitpicking about the choices of characters' skins, go and fight for causes where women are truly being oppresed, not over this.

Hal Su Ice01 votes

[{quoted}](name=Postal Badger,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2015-05-14T14:47:21.990+0000)

If anything, go complain to the members of SSW for not using/prefering female champions, I guess.

So let me get this straight, Riot didn't add a girl skin to the group skin, no matter if they are releasing female skins over and over, you're going to """Girlcott""" them "and amending my F rating for Riot Gaming on the Better Business Bureau's website to include this latest offense".

You aren't even a fan of this game, you're just looking way too for things to stir up problem about. Instead of nitpicking about the choices of characters' skins, go and fight for causes where women are truly being oppresed, not over this.

Postal Badger, please understand that it is a myth that Riot is "releasing female skins over and over", because the ratio of male to female skins is heavily favoured to the side of male skins - there are many more of them. When an incident like this occurs where an entire skin theme is devoted to male champions only, and when this isn't even the first time an entire skin theme has done this (see the World Cup theme from last year), it's a problem for me and you bet I'm going to go to the Better Business Bureau about it.

I am a fan of the game, that's why I've been playing it for over two years and I'm in platinum ranking right now. However, that doesn't mean that I have to accept the sexism that is being celebrated with skin releases like this one.

DrCyanide13 votes

Postal Badger, please understand that it is a myth that Riot is "releasing female skins over and over", because the ratio of male to female skins is heavily favoured to the side of male skins - there are many more of them.

Unless I messed up, there are 273 male skins in the shop right now compared to 139 female skins. "See! There are more!" you say, but then we look at the ratios of skins to champions of that gender.

There are 3.37 skins per male champion. There are 3.23 skins per female champion.

Your "heavily favored" is off by 6 skins, which might be accounted for in legacy skins.

When an incident like this occurs where an entire skin theme is devoted to male champions only, and when this isn't even the first time an entire skin theme has done this (see the World Cup theme from last year), it's a problem for me and you bet I'm going to go to the Better Business Bureau about it.

Again, you don't seem to understand how these skins are picked. It's not Riot (much less Samsung, who you mentioned you would "girlcott" in your OP)'s choice so much as it is a reflection of what champions the team players used the most that season or are particularly well known for.

Can you name the female champions that Looper, Dandy, Pawn, Imp, or Mata played to great success in 2014? Can you argue they played them on par or better than Singed, Rengar, Talon, Twitch or Thresh? If not, you really have no business complaining about it.

Honestly, it's posts like this one that give feminists a bad name in general, regardless of if you're a troll or sincere.

Trick1F4 votes

So, so, so much all of this.

Serevas9 votes

Looking through your past activity on the boards I now realize that you weren't trolling which makes me very sad, and frankly even more disappointed.

People like you are the exact reason why feminists aren't taken seriously today. You spout off about things you have no idea about and then make a complete ass of yourself on as grand a stage as you possibly can find. You literally do more damage to the cause you're trying to champion than you do good.

Being that there are more male champions than female champions it only makes sense that the number of skins for male champions is higher. The skins that you're on about being all male are skins that were chosen by the players of Samsung White that they felt were most key to their victory at season 4 worlds, so of course you weren't polled on the skins. Go win worlds and you can select your own skin for whichever female champion you want.

Not only do I disagree with your statement that almost all skins for female champions are massively oversexualized, frankly it is entirely unfounded. I personally believe that I could walk out onto the street and find at least 20 examples of female dress in reality that are easily more sexualized than 95% of the skins you'd find on this game. So frankly I feel that the skins are no worse than what women wear in reality.

Furthermore anyone with have a bit of common sense could tell you that you have far better sales volume when things are more appealing to look at. That goes for both male and female products in game and in reality. That's just the way that marketing works and I can guarantee that it works on you just as much as it works on us men.

Frankly I'm not sure why I'm even taking the bait and posting on this as it's clear from your previous responses that you're just looking for an argument that you can then take to tumblr or reddit or wherever. Cut only the parts out that would support your case, and get the rest of the "feminists" like yourself, and mind you I'm using the term very loosely, to throw up a fit of rage and accuse every man in the world of metaphorically raping you because we have male sex organs. People like you who claim to be after gender equality actually boil down to not looking for equality, but rather for payback and revenge.

You bastardize your own cause for little more than attention and frankly it's just downright shameful because there is true gender inequality that exists in the world, but instead of spotlighting that, you find the most insignificant thing and turn your own cause into a complete joke.

I really and truly hope that you find a better way to go about this kind of thing, because if your type is the face of the feminist movement, you won't be getting anywhere.

Edit: Furthermore if you're going to do a boycott, do a proper boycott. Playing the game and not buying stuff is like saying you're not going to go to starbucks anymore and instead you buy the starbucks grounds from a grocery store.

Hal Su Ice01 votes

{quoted}

cut

It is really unbelievable to me how many words you people put into my mouth and how much responsibility you put on any given woman to represent all other women and feminism as well. Just because I am a woman and a feminist does not mean that I should be restricted to talking about feminist problems in other countries wherever I go. I am human just like you and I play this game just like you do, and if I want to make a thread about a feminist issue closer to home then I am free to do so.

And this is a feminist issue, no matter how insignificant it may seem when juxtaposed with other feminist issues around the world. It's a feminist issue because there are twice the male champions in this game than there are female champions. That's a fact. There are roughly twice the male skins than there are female skins, and even though that's based on the sexism with champion genders, that doesn't magically make it not sexist.

As for sexualization, yes you could go down to a Las Vegas street corner and find women dressed like this, but for one thing this is supposed to be a battlefield, which is why most male champions aren't wearing t-shirts, and for another thing most women don't have the breast sizes that we are seeing in this game on 90% of the female champions. Also, we don't see platemail with penis bulges like we are seeing plate male with breast bulges, that is another manifestation of the sexualization of female champions. Female champions being appealing to look at doesn't have to mean having enormous breasts with stick arms and faces smothered by make-up on the battlefield. Male champions are appealing to look at without any of those things.

And to address the myth that the gaming industry and even Riot Gaming isn't moving forward on these matters, we have actually been female champions lately that are much less sexualized and more unique than those from when this game was first starting out. That is progress.

Trick1F2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2015-05-14T15:23:51.358+0000)

It is really unbelievable to me how many words you people put into my mouth and how much responsibility you put on any given woman to represent all other women and feminism as well. Just because I am a woman and a feminist does not mean that I should be restricted to talking about feminist problems in other countries wherever I go. I am human just like you and I play this game just like you do, and if I want to make a thread about a feminist issue closer to home then I am free to do so.

And this is a feminist issue, no matter how insignificant it may seem when juxtaposed with other feminist issues around the world. It's a feminist issue because there are twice the male champions in this game than there are female champions. That's a fact. There are roughly twice the male skins than there are female skins, and even though that's based on the sexism with champion genders, that doesn't magically make it not sexist.

As for sexualization, yes you could go down to a Las Vegas street corner and find women dressed like this, but for one thing this is supposed to be a battlefield, which is why most male champions aren't wearing t-shirts, and for another thing most women don't have the breast sizes that we are seeing in this game on 90% of the female champions. Also, we don't see platemail with penis bulges like we are seeing plate male with breast bulges, that is another manifestation of the sexualization of female champions. Female champions being appealing to look at doesn't have to mean having enormous breasts with stick arms and faces smothered by make-up on the battlefield. Male champions are appealing to look at without any of those things.

And to address the myth that the gaming industry and even Riot Gaming isn't moving forward on these matters, we have actually been female champions lately that are much less sexualized and more unique than those from when this game was first starting out. That is progress.

I laughed when you said "we". You literally cut, copy and delete what people write and ignore what everyone says simply so you can make another confoluted argument.

You're whole "don't tread on me" is just a cliche distraction. You harp on having the right to post, but don't write anything of substance in your post. I can post because I'm a woman! Yes, you can. But what about the THOUSAND other things that Argronar said? You just conveniently ignored all of that didn't you.

LMAO. Most women don't have the breast sizes? Jesus. You just make things up. Did you know that 91% of female gamers support sexualization of women? It's a statistic. It's true.

You are a hopeless case. I'm really sorry to see someone so blind, so naive, that they cannot engage in any kind of civil discussion.

Hal Su Ice01 votes

{quoted}

I laughed when you said "we". You literally cut, copy and delete what people write and ignore what everyone says simply so you can make another confoluted argument.

You're whole "don't tread on me" is just a cliche distraction. You harp on having the right to post, but don't write anything of substance in your post. I can post because I'm a woman! Yes, you can. But what about the THOUSAND other things that Argronar said? You just conveniently ignored all of that didn't you.

LMAO. Most women don't have the breast sizes? Jesus. You just make things up. Did you know that 91% of female gamers support sexualization of women? It's a statistic. It's true.

You are a hopeless case. I'm really sorry to see someone so blind, so naive, that they cannot engage in any kind of civil discussion.

Argronar's post was half centered around my being a feminist and a woman and how I wasn't representing those two groups properly in his eyes, so half of my post in response to him was addressing that. There is nothing wrong with that. I do have the right to post, and I did post something of substance, which is the original post in this thread as well as multiple replies. If there is ever anything I post that is off-topic or without substance it is because I am replying to someone who has said something off-topic or without substance.

If you believe that most women have the breast sizes that the female champions in this game have, then I suggest you step away from this game, that you step away from the pornography, and that you step out to your local library or bank to see the breast sizes that most women have. And please don't ogle them. Also, that statistic you posted is malarkey, I don't believe it for a second.

SEKAI4 votes

If you believe that most women have the breast sizes that the female champions in this game have, then I suggest you step away from this game,

Do all men have the same muscularity or physical finesse guy champs have in this game?

It works both ways you see, genders are about equally sexualised in LoL, and that's a good thing.

There is no need to harp on little details.

Kazaashi1 votes

{quoted}

Do all men have the same muscularity or physical finesse guy champs have in this game?

It works both ways you see, genders are about equally sexualised in LoL, and that's a good thing.

There is no need to harp on little details.

The big problem with your line of thinking is this: Men have most of the power and authority in society, so they can be sexualized and still valued for things other than that. Women are pretty much only valued for thier ability to create more people.

SEKAI2 votes

{quoted}

The big problem with your line of thinking is this: Men have most of the power and authority in society, so they can be sexualized and still valued for things other than that. Women are pretty much only valued for thier ability to create more people.

Men got the most power in society because most women have been shown to be simply not all that interested in bitter power struggle hence why they tend to work in other fields that don't appear in the stage of conflicts. Doesn't mean they get less credit or respect for what they do.

Women are pretty much only valued for thier ability to create more people.

Who said that?

That's entirely not true at all. There is a reason to why women get a free pass on a LOT of things, because socially everyone values women more, and it's a fact (save from the certain parts of the history). Because we evolved that way and we're also brought up that way through our moral, educational and legislation system.

There is also a reason to why women are almost never portrayed as something that would be generally seen as "wrong" or "evil" in any media, except manga and animes (and older literature) because frankly their audience is apparently fairly open with a lot of things.

Kazaashi2 votes

{quoted}

Men got the most power in society because most women have been shown to be simply not all that interested in bitter power struggle hence why they tend to work in other fields that don't appear in the stage of conflicts. Doesn't mean they get less credit or respect for what they do.

That is simply not true and this is where things get really complicated. Evolutionarily speaking, men have evolved to fill the hunter roll. Throughout human history men have been the ones to go out and dominate nature in oder to ensure the species' survival. Conversely, women have been the ones to stay home and gather supplies and take care of the domestic responsibilites.

Fast forward thousands of years and you have a society that is dominated by masculine influences because the situations men evolved from required quick, focused thought and a clear hierachy of who needs to do what [It takes a lot of coordination and teamwork to bring down a Mammoth]. Since evolution has guided men to proactively take control of situations in order to achieve a goal, men have been the ones to go out and work with a desire to be the one in control.

Alternatively, because women evolved with the gatherer and caretaker archetype in place, they focus on building relationships and support structures. Thier role has always been to connect people in order to develop strong familial and social ties to make sure the whole clan functions. When this becomes applied in modern situations, it makes women seem like they have no drive or don't "want" to be successful, when, in fact, they just have a different way of achieving the goal.

Who said that?

No one said it in this conversation, but it is a fact.

The very tradition of marriage is a property transaction between a father and the husband (or both fathers, depending on the country/society), so there is that.

Most western religions, if you really read the texts, have a very low opionon of women. Look at Christianity. Women are the cause of original sin. It pretty much states in a few places that God created women to entertain and serve men.

That's entirely not true at all. There is a reason to why women get a free pass on a LOT of things, because socially everyone values women more, and it's a fact (save from the certain parts of the history). Because we evolved that way and we're also brought up that way through our moral, educational and legislation system.

Evolutionarily speaking, men look at women as something to protect and covet, not something to take seriously. The "free pass" you are talking about is an example of sexism in modern society. If a woman messes something up she's "Ditzy" or "Blonde", if she show her sexuailty she's a "Slut" or "Whore", if she shows her independence she's a "Dyke" or "Bitch", If she talks about disenfrancisement she's a "Feminatzi" or "On the Rag".

Trick1F2 votes

{quoted}

That is simply not true and this is where things get really complicated. Evolutionarily speaking, men have evolved to fill the hunter roll. Throughout human history men have been the ones to go out and dominate nature in oder to ensure the species' survival. Conversely, women have been the ones to stay home and gather supplies and take care of the domestic responsibilites.

Fast forward thousands of years and you have a society that is dominated by masculine influences because the situations men evolved from required quick, focused thought and a clear hierachy of who needs to do what [It takes a lot of coordination and teamwork to bring down a Mammoth]. Since evolution has guided men to proactively take control of situations in order to achieve a goal, men have been the ones to go out and work with a desire to be the one in control.

Alternatively, because women evolved with the gatherer and caretaker archetype in place, they focus on building relationships and support structures. Thier role has always been to connect people in order to develop strong familial and social ties to make sure the whole clan functions. When this becomes applied in modern situations, it makes women seem like they have no drive or don't "want" to be successful, when, in fact, they just have a different way of achieving the goal.

No one said it in this conversation, but it is a fact.

The very tradition of marriage is a property transaction between a father and the husband (or both fathers, depending on the country/society), so there is that.

Most western religions, if you really read the texts, have a very low opionon of women. Look at Christianity. Women are the cause of original sin. It pretty much states in a few places that God created women to entertain and serve men.

Evolutionarily speaking, men look at women as something to protect and covet, not something to take seriously. The "free pass" you are talking about is an example of sexism in modern society. If a woman messes something up she's "Ditzy" or "Blonde", if she show her sexuailty she's a "Slut" or "Whore", if she shows her independence she's a "Dyke" or "Bitch", If she talks about disenfrancisement she's a "Feminatzi" or "On the Rag".

Sorry, you're just not worth talking to. But after very summarily skimming through your post, I have a correction.You say "western religions". All major religions, and all major cultures, east or west, do the same thing. But please, continue with all of your "facts".

Kazaashi1 votes

{quoted}

Sorry, you're just not worth talking to. But after very summarily skimming through your post, I have a correction.You say "western religions". All major religions, and all major cultures, east or west, do the same thing. But please, continue with all of your "facts".

If you aren't going to read my reply, I think you are the one who isn't worth talking to. I'm just trying to get you to think about things differently, but you just see that as a perosnal attack. It's not. Just because the sexist and racist tendecies of society may have given you advantages that others may not have, doesn't belittle or detract from your own acomplishments and achievements. Everyone faces prejudice and hate all the time in their life and everyone should be celebrated when the are able to over come it, but, please, do not make the mistake of thinking that you understand what a woman or person of color has to go through.

I can only speak to western religions, as those are the ones I have studied the most. But you are correct, women do not have much power any place in the world.

Killed Inaction3 votes

{quoted}

If you aren't going to read my reply, I think you are the one who isn't worth talking to. I'm just trying to get you to think about things differently, but you just see that as a perosnal attack. It's not. Just because the sexist and racist tendecies of society may have given you advantages that others may not have, doesn't belittle or detract from your own acomplishments and achievements. Everyone faces prejudice and hate all the time in their life and everyone should be celebrated when the are able to over come it, but, please, do not make the mistake of thinking that you understand what a woman or person of color has to go through.

I can only speak to western religions, as those are the ones I have studied the most. But you are correct, women do not have much power any place in the world.

Do you seriously not realize how you are being sexist and racist through that statement? Wow.

Trick1F2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=000f000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-14T15:38:53.413+0000)

Argronar's post was half centered around my being a feminist and a woman and how I wasn't representing those two groups properly in his eyes, so half of my post in response to him was addressing that. There is nothing wrong with that. I do have the right to post, and I did post something of substance, which is the original post in this thread as well as multiple replies. If there is ever anything I post that is off-topic or without substance it is because I am replying to someone who has said something off-topic or without substance.

If you believe that most women have the breast sizes that the female champions in this game have, then I suggest you step away from this game, that you step away from the pornography, and that you step out to your local library or bank to see the breast sizes that most women have. And please don't ogle them. Also, that statistic you posted is malarkey, I don't believe it for a second.

No. Half of Argronar's post was centered about how you are blindly chasing something without having a good understanding of the game on a professional level, and how that professional scene influences the business decisions of the developers.

You harp on the same poor harp, and the strings are getting so very frayed. You have the right to post. I have the right to post. Why are you trying to stop my right to post? Do you have something against me because I'm a man? Seriously, you have attacked me and attacked me and I'm starting to feel a little threatened that all of these attacks are solely because I am a man.

You said that 90% of women do not have large breasts. I DARE you. I absolutely DARE you to reply to this part of my comment:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/bra-size-survey_n_3645267.html

The average bra size in the United States of America is 34DD. You just got rekt. AGAIN.

^ Please. step away from the keyboard. You're just embarassing yourself by making things up and then interpreting EVERYTHING as a personal attack.

You dare libel me as needing to step away from pornography. How dare you make baseless accusations and personal attacks?

EVERYTHING I have posted is supported with evidence.

Please. PLEASE respond to this. I dare you.

SEKAI6 votes

The average bra size in the United States of America is 34DD.

Me: Buying plane ticket.....

bearded squid7 votes

you do realize that they were player chosen skins for champs they had fun with or felt affected their victory in a positive way had nothing to do with gender

Hal Su Ice01 votes

[{quoted}](name=bearded squid,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-05-14T14:01:26.580+0000)

you do realize that they were player chosen skins for champs they had fun with or felt affected their victory in a positive way had nothing to do with gender

No, I don't think so. I don't remember seeing any survey asking me who I had fun with or affected my victory, and three of the champions, Singed Rengar and Twitch are unpopular and weak choices right now.

Richard9 votes

They were chosen by the Season 4 World Champions - Samsung White.

Each participating player chose the champion they wanted a skin made for.

It has nothing to do with 'your victory', unless you're in Samsung White. I'm guessing not.

Which is also why you "sending a dissatisfied letter" to Samsung is absolutely laughable.. They sponsor the team that won, that's as much as they're involved.

Jamaree4 votes

[deleted]

Hal Su Ice02 votes

{quoted}

Did you even read paragraph 2? How can you look at that many blatant examples of male favouritism and call me unreasonable for calling it sexist?

Graidon20 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-05-14T13:55:21.472+0000)

Did you even read paragraph 2? How can you look at that many blatant examples of male favouritism and call me unreasonable for calling it sexist?

Do you even know why they picked those five champions? It's a simple question: yes or no.

DrCyanide5 votes

The original post is self evidence of "no" or "troll".

Graidon1 votes

[deleted]

Hal Su Ice02 votes

{quoted}

Stop the insults immediately. I am not an idiot, I am not stupid, and I will not have people calling me a "feminazi" in my own thread. The next insult I receive will be reported. To answer your question, it doesn't matter the specific reason they had for picking those champions because this is not an isolated incident, as I illustrated in my post. It is one part of a larger pattern.

Graidon4 votes

[deleted]

Hal Su Ice02 votes

{quoted}

You didn't call me a "feminazi", but three other people in the thread did and I am not going to grace every single person coming in here just to spew their anger with their own personalized response. When people call me a "feminazi", that is an attack that is intimately related to my gender, so it doesn't make me stupid to consider it that way.

How do I have zero understanding of the season 4 champion skins? I know the facts: that there are many more male skins released than female skins, and that the release of an all-male skin theme is a repeated behaviour. If you want to bring facts into this thread, I welcome you to do so, but hopefully by then you will be banned based on my reports. It is not okay to call me an idiot just because you disagree with me. I do care about explanations and reasons, but you have brought none into this thread.

Yes, I'm looking for attention, but it's not attention for myself, it's attention for Riot, for Samsung, and for the state of female skins and champions in this game.

Graidon9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Little Pecan,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=kEBBiWNj,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-14T14:21:26.879+0000)

You didn't call me a "feminazi", but three other people in the thread did and I am not going to grace every single person coming in here just to spew their anger with their own personalized response. When people call me a "feminazi", that is an attack that is intimately related to my gender, so it doesn't make me stupid to consider it that way.

How do I have zero understanding of the season 4 champion skins? I know the facts: that there are many more male skins released than female skins, and that the release of an all-male skin theme is a repeated behaviour. If you want to bring facts into this thread, I welcome you to do so, but hopefully by then you will be banned based on my reports. It is not okay to call me an idiot just because you disagree with me. I do care about explanations and reasons, but you have brought none into this thread.

Yes, I'm looking for attention, but it's not attention for myself, it's attention for Riot, for Samsung, and for the state of female skins and champions in this game.

See? You're wrong again. I didn't call you a feminazi but you told me not to call you a feminazi. Instead of admitting you were wrong, you simply went on to change the topic.

You were wrong.

LOL. You know the "facts". You know nothing little pecan. There are more male champions than female champions. THEREFORE, MORE MALE SKINS THAN FEMALE SKINS IS A STATISTICAL REALITY, NOT A GENDERED BIAS.

I won't be banned. I made the mistake of rising to your troll bait once. Just because I make accurate statements about you and you go run to tattle-tale. So be it. I'll destroy you in a civilized manner.

The skins were designed on champions that were favorites of the players. The players chose to play certain champions. They happened to be male. Could these players have a partiality to male champions? Possibly. Would professional gamers lessen their chance of winning based on the gender of the champion? No. Ergo, they chose to play strong champions they could win on in that meta. They did. They are rewarded for their victory. With skins. For those champions. Which happen to be male.

You are looking for attention. And it is completely centered around yourself.

Kazaashi1 votes

{quoted}

LOL. You know the "facts". You know nothing little pecan. There are more male champions than female champions. THEREFORE, MORE MALE SKINS THAN FEMALE SKINS IS A STATISTICAL REALITY, NOT A GENDERED BIAS.

True, but the fact that there are more Male champs than Female ones, does show that there is a gender bias at work.

The skins were designed on champions that were favorites of the players. The players chose to play certain champions. They happened to be male. Could these players have a partiality to male champions? Possibly. Would professional gamers lessen their chance of winning based on the gender of the champion? No. Ergo, they chose to play strong champions they could win on in that meta. They did. They are rewarded for their victory. With skins. For those champions. Which happen to be male.

The skins were chosen by male players, who also happen to come from a part of the world that has a very subserviant view on women. I'm not saying that the skin selection is an example of sexism in society, but you have to admit that it had a part to play in all of this.

That is the problem with identifying and determining sexism and racism, you cannot look at individual instances and say "Yes, that is sexism." Sexism and Racism are deep seeded cultural and societal norms and practices that continually and pervasivly disinfrancise an entier group of people, just because they are born a certain way. You have to be able to look at the big picture and see all the little influences that go into a situation.

Trick1F5 votes

{quoted}

True, but the fact that there are more Male champs than Female ones, does show that there is a gender bias at work.

The skins were chosen by male players, who also happen to come from a part of the world that has a very subserviant view on women. I'm not saying that the skin selection is an example of sexism in society, but you have to admit that it had a part to play in all of this.

That is the problem with identifying and determining sexism and racism, you cannot look at individual instances and say "Yes, that is sexism." Sexism and Racism are deep seeded cultural and societal norms and practices that continually and pervasivly disinfrancise an entier group of people, just because they are born a certain way. You have to be able to look at the big picture and see all the little influences that go into a situation.

Deft is a Korean player. Playing in China. He just won MSI. Playing Jinx ADC.

Your argument is invalid.

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