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Fiora rework proposal (again) ... and some complain about Fiora's Ult nerf :)

wutalife2live·4/27/2015, 1:48:58 AM·13 votes·9,347 views

Just got really bored from LOL, and decide to make another proposal for Fiora , since riot gives no love to her.

I agree that Fiora lacks of counter play. She can be really fun if she has CC, or escape, or high armor penetration. Once your opponent starts to build armor, she can't do anything. Riot put Fiora into fighter role, but I don't see how QAEAQR burst in 2 seconds on someone's face and runs away with the movement speed bonus is a fighter's job. Fencing is all about skills, if she is a fencer maybe it's better to make her an AD caster instead of someone like Yi. An AD caster that works like a DPS as well. What she needs is change to her lunge into a skill shot, that gives her escape, and turn her riposte into a CC. I wish that she can plays like a Fizz, feels like Talon and deals damage like Yasuo.

Also I hate how they nerf her ult: to reduce that AOE effect they can just cancel the on - hit effect from her ult, but they instead nerf the damage. That was really disappointing.

Before I jump into my rework proposal, I want to complain about her ult change.

This is what riot said: "While it's a little weird to have to nerf a champion due to their overwhelming synergy with a core item (Tiamat / Ravenous Hydra in this case), Fiora's a more unique case as Tiamat lets her turn an already low-counterplay ability (Blade Waltz) into a high-damage area-effect low-counterplay ability." (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-420-notes#patch-fiora)

If you really thinks that is a problem, just remove the on - hit effect, that way she doesn't go back to full health, nor benefit from the crazy Ravenous Hydra.

The benefit of removing the on - hit effect from her ult:

vs. Jax: Wow, still dodging? Who's the master now?

vs. Rammus or thornmall : Sorry you don't reflects damage back anymore

vs. Fizz ... NVM that doesn't change anything

However, on the other hand:

  1. Fiora doesn't do massive AOE damage to enemy team anymore

  2. Fiora doesn't have to worry about the S5 changes that gives her buff (I don't think how S5 benefit fiora)

  3. No more full health after Ult

Instead, this is what happened:

vs. Jax: I don't have to dodge anymore cause u suck

vs. Rammus or thornmall: Now you don't even do damage

vs. Fizz ... he still dodges

vs. A group of people: Oh look it's fiora, oh look she Ult, oh look she does so "much" damage

:(

Well then, I really hopes that Riot can give my old ult back.

Ok now, let's talk about the proposal:

Passive:

Duelist: Fiora applies "Duelist" debuff on the target she attacks. Every time she auto attack this target, she receives 5% less damage from this target, stacks to a maximum amount of 15%/25%/35%. The debuff last for 3 seconds.

Analysis: Fiora is a Duelist, which means she should be superior in 1 v 1. This passive seem OP, and it is :). It gives huge pressure to Champions like Jax and Master Yi when they play 1 v 1 duel. However, vs. those who has massive burst, like Leblanc, Talon and Zed, Fiora remains vulnerable to them. This is basically a change based on the original purpose of her original passive, which is to superior in small skirmish. I don't know how you guys use it, but I use it to heal in lane :)

Q: Lunge:

Fiora dash toward target direction, deals physical damage. If she hits an enemy, Fiora can perform a second dash with in 4 seconds with no mana cost.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 60% bonus AD)

MAX PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 (+ 120% bonus AD)

Cooldown: 8

Cost: 60 Mana

Analysis: Not much change of the original lunge, except that now it's a skill shot, and she can only perform the second dash when she hit an enemy on the first one. Also, now minions can block her lunge (which makes sense right? I always wonders how Fiora goes through minions to hit the champion. I fences and I think that's practically impossible to hit someone when somebody stands between you and him). You can use Lunge "poke" the enemy in lane. You Q on his face, unleash some combo and Q back. Btw you also need to keep an eye on minions. Or it can just be used like the old lunge, QAQA. Or you can use it to escape enemy Jungle.

W: Reposte

Fiora blocks the attacks and spells from the target direction for a short duration, after 1 second or a successful block, Fiora can activate Reposte again to stun the enemy in front of her within 200 range, canceling Reposte and dealing minor damage. During Reposte Fiora is not able to attack, cast spell or change direction, and she will receive a 25% movement speed penalty. However, Fiora can Reposte during the dash of Lunge, the direction of Reposte will be the same with Lunge.

Physical Damage: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 1.0 AP)

Duration: 2 seconds

Stun: 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2

Cooldown: 16 / 15 / 14 / 13 / 12

Cost: 45 Mana

Analysis: Similar to Jax's "counter attack", Fiora can stun the enemies in front of her; however, Fiora can block skills as well, which Jax doesn't. On the other hand, Fiora will suffer from the movement speed penalty, and only block one direction, meanwhile she can't attack or cast spells. Which means if the opponent can some how get on her back or side, she'll be in a lot of trouble. Compared to Jax's counter attack, this is a more skill required defensive ability, whereas Jax's counter attack can be used on both offensive and defensive. Notice how I use AP scale in this case, because I know that parry is all about skill, not about strength. Also it's for game balance (it does physical damage though).

E: Blade Waltz

Fiora becomes untargetable for the next 0.25 seconds and shift for a short distance. Her next basic attack deals Bonus damage with a slightly greater range. (CD counter starts after her enchanted attack)

Bonus physical damage: 30 / 50 / 70 / 90 / 120 (+ 20% total AD)

Cool down: 6/5/4/3/2

Cost: 60 Mana

Analysis: WHAT THE HELL? THIS IS BULLSHIT I'M DONE READING THIS. But wait, let me talk about it. This is the core part of this rework. What does this do to Fiora? Well, you probably noticed that the damage output of this skill is crazy and the cool down is ridiculously low, that's because I took away her attack speed boost and I really need to make up something for it. Let's say if you are fighting a Yi and you two are auto attacking each other (I forgot the term for that), before at least Fiora still got her E to boost her AS above 1.5, but now she got nothing. This is no good, that will not make her a "duelist" since she can't 1 v 1 anyone with a high AS. So here is the solution. Without a AS boost, instead, each of her attack is painful rather than fast. When fighting those with high attack speed, like Yi and Jax; your shift, longer range of attack and untargetable status can delay their attack and make their AS useless in that 0.25 seconds (or longer). So basically what you are really doing is that you are "kiting" those champions with your E. This will feels like a combination of Fizz's playful and Vayne's tumble, except it doesn't slow your enemy but it deals massive physical damage, and requires a tons of skill. It is also the ability makes this Fiora a late game Champion.

R: Burst of Speed

Passive: Fiora gains 10%/15%/20% armor penetration

Fiora refreshes cool down of her basic abilities, temporarily gains 40% cool down reduction for a short amount of time. Fiora also gains a massive movement speed boost during Burst of Speed. During Burst of Speed, Fiora's auto attack reduces CD of her basic abilities.

Duration: 4/5/6 seconds

Movement speed boost: 25/35/45%

Mana cost: No cost

Cool down: 70/60/50 seconds

Analysis: Based on someone's idea (Hi Guinsoo, where is the Fiora rework you promised 1 year ago??), this ult can gives her high mobility with high damage. Unlike other hyper carry, she (now) relies on her abilities rather than basic attacks. Upon use, it refreshes all CDs of her basic abilities, allows her to perform Lunge 4 times, Reposte 2 times and Blade Waltz I don't know how many times. With maximum CDR, she can be like Zed, flies around while doing tons of damage.

Conclusion:

Point: My proposal makes Fiora a relatively weak champion early game, definitely weaker than her now. However, like Yasuo, once the CD of her E gets shorter, she does tons of damage while dodge enemy spells and blocking enemy attacks. In late game, again, like Yasuo, she is able to fly everywhere while do tons of damage (not as much as Yasuo though). Her Q is skill shot, her W is a kind of skill shot, and her E is a kind of skill shot as well. That could makes her super fun to play, when you have to E around your enemy while not to far away from them. In conclusion, this makes she a champion combines Fizz, Yasuo, Vayne, Zed, Jax and Braum(her W works similar to that).

PS: I made up those numbers, this time I did not calculate stuff, so if you are unhappy about the amount of damage she does, don't blame me.

24 Comments

Ariel the Cruel4/27/2015, 4:30:04 AM2 votes

Blade waltz ... 40% CD = 1.2 second CD.

It's troll poll from hell.

Have you ever seen Shaco dodge skills with his ult? A good shaco can dodge literally anything (Except DoT AoE). She'd be doing this every 2/1.2 seconds. I won't even be visiting the forums for a few weeks.

Leblancs Boob4/28/2015, 4:31:15 PM2 votes

As much as I agree Fiora is not in a good spot right now. The ult nerf was DEFINITELY needed. She's designed to be a duelist, not dish out stupid amounts of AOE damage. She shouldn't be allowed to hit R and 1v5 an enemy team.

AyRe CoNteMpT4/27/2015, 11:50:53 AM1 votes

there are a few things that we dont need in league anymore. one of them is non-movement-mobility (dashes, jumps, "shifts" etc). another one would be untargetability. a third one that comes to mind is knockups, but she luckily has none of them, or i would report you.

inmUGco4/27/2015, 1:24:03 PM1 votes

art cool!

The Mighty Flea4/27/2015, 9:22:53 PM1 votes

Fiora's ult makes her untargetable, and lets you solo kill any top laner easily early game. Its an instant snowball.

junglerboy164/28/2015, 1:39:17 PM1 votes

Ok, starting from the top:

Passive: This is a broken mechanic. You basically gave her a stacking Urgot passive, and that has always been broken on him for the simple reason that it allows an incredibly high damage threat to be extremely durable. This is the same kind of thing that broke Kha'zix in the middle of last season before they had to gut him. % damage reduction has exponentially increasing benefits, so each stack actually makes her incredibly more durable than the last. Basically, % damage reduction has no place on any sort of carry or assassin kit.

Q: I actually don't like that the first dash is untargeted, because you have turned this into a copy-paste of Renekton's slice and dice, just without any fury mechanic. The thing that makes Fiora unsatisfying as a champion is that she has virtually no skill involved in her kit since it is almost exclusively point and click damage (please don't confuse this for me saying she is a "no skill freelo champ", she has strategy and all, just overly simple mechanics for someone who is supposed to be "an extremely skilled duelist"). to amend that, I'd say try to integrate some interaction between her first lunge, second lunge, and other abilities.

W: I like the idea of making this a directional ability that blocks everything, but instead of just making it deal damage and stun in an area, I'd say give it a reactivation mechanic. Something like this: Parry-Disengage/Riposte: Parry: For the next 2 seconds, Fiora blocks the first instance of incoming champion or large or epic monster damage from the target direction (basically a combination Pantheon shield+spell shield, but in a single direction). If Fiora does not block an ability or attack within the duration, she can recast Disengage (no cost) in the next 4 seconds to dash directly away from the nearest enemy champion (400 range). If Fiora blocks a champion or large or Epic monster attack or ability, she can immediately recast Riposte to counterattack, stunning the enemy for a few seconds and dealing physical damage.

E: This one is interesting. The cooldown is far too short for the amount of survivability and DPS this would give, and the mana cost would just make her into a manamune addict rather than effectively gating her. I do like the idea of having her sidestepping everything really fast though, so that isn't necessarily bad. To fix this, I'd say remove the base damage entirely and leave it as just an AD scaling (like +10/20/30/40/50% AD bonus damage on next attack) and adjust the CD slightly (I'll discuss this below)

R: Instead of actual CDR, I'd do what Riot said they were looking at and simply reduce her CDs to something minimal, like 2/1.5/1 seconds flat for the duration. If you did that, she wouldn't be punished for building a CDR item ever. I'd also add in something like "all mana costs are reduced by 50% for the duration" If you adjusted the standard CDs on her spells to Q: 10 seconds, W: 16/15/14/13/12, E: 6 seconds, then this new R would make her feel like she was going from 0 to 60 in terms of spell output, and would feel much more impactful in terms of the difference between ulting and not ulting.

Abyssphere4/28/2015, 4:11:43 PM1 votes

I think your rework is a good attempt but I don't think it'd solve all her problems, I think she needs something a bit more extensive. Her ult would be really fun in a Ryze passive sort of way so I actually don't dislike it that much (I usually absolutely hate fighter ultimates). With Fiora being a duelist I think it makes more sense on her than almost anyone else and it would certainly make her look skilled/have high mechanical intensity if her cooldowns were reduced enough (think about having to activate one of your basic abilities every second or twice a second). Not sure on the Blade Waltz though. IMO Riposte should be her only way of avoiding a blow, so I'd just remove the untargetability on Blade Waltz altogether.

MAZZ1M04/29/2015, 2:56:51 AM1 votes

I must be the only one around that loves Fiora's kit. The ult is definitely lackluster now and should be replaced, but the Q, W, E are fine imo. I don't have any problems with her.

speak with tree4/27/2015, 2:19:40 AM1 votes

First I'd like to say I like most of the ideas here, one suggestion I have is to keep her lunge a point and click so she can't escape easily without clever minion management.

Scrapper Raven7/22/2015, 3:05:55 PM1 votes

I liked her Blade Waltz the way It looks was cool ,main reason I got her im just that kind of player I play champions that I like and not because they OP.

Changes good / bad will see but splash art sucks !! And that's face she looks like evil rich old woman after an unsuccessful plastic surgery

Nightshade32264/27/2015, 4:41:07 AM1 votes

I like the passive. Though to be fair, almost ANYTHING would be better than her current one.

There is nothing wrong with her Q already. Though I would prefer it be called Lunge/Disengage where you can use one of the charges on a friendly target to get away. Would give her better escape, since she explodes if you look at her funny.

Riposte: Why are you attempting to turn her into Jax, exactly? This move needs help, but the help it needs Riot can't do because the LoL engine is crap. Replacing it with something new is probably the better option. With what I don't know, but a Braum/Jax hybrid idea probably isn't the answer.

Blade Waltz: Yea...no comment on how ludicrous this idea is.

Blade waltz ... 40% CD = 1.2 second CD.

It's troll poll from hell.

Have you ever seen Shaco dodge skills with his ult? A good shaco can dodge literally anything (Except DoT AoE). She'd be doing this every 2/1.2 seconds.

This pretty much summed it up.

Burst of Speed: Even if I loved everything else, you turned her ult into a steroid. That is an automatic FAIL, in my opinion. Steroid ults are boring as hell on EVERY champion that has them. And I immediately reject ANY rework idea that has this for Fiora. Try again, please.

Oh, and can we NOT turn her into the female version of Yasuo? One of him was bad enough. Thanks.