Boards›Concepts & Creations

Rengar Rework Concept

Stacona··2 votes·1,601 views

Two Things:

  1. I want assassins to feel unique rather than reskins of each other. Also focus on giving them proper counter play and fairness to play against.

  2. Rengar I feel as this unpretty assassin, one where he makes his presence known and just runs in without a plan and jumps on his target and SLOWLY rip his target to pieces, not insta-kill his target. So my concept here will be remove all forms of burst on Rengar and make him as the sustain damage assassin where he slowly chips away at his target's health, this will then allow to add team utility to his kit so he can fallback on and not need to rely on unhealthy amounts of burst damage to kill his target.

Ferocity will get a change for this concept, it will work like Annie's stun gauge where it resets to zero when you use the empowered ability including where the charging up abilities stay white and the next ability will be shown on the bar as a bigger and orange piece and ONLY empowers the ability with no separate cooldown.

Attack Range: 125 units Attack Speed: 0.715 +3% per level + additional 5% @level 1 Attack Damage: Very Low Movement: 340 units per second

Ferocity (Passive):

When Rengar casts an ability he gains 1 Ferocity, up to 3 Ferocity, when at max Ferocity the next basic ability cast will consume all Ferocity and become empowered.

Whenever Rengar casts an ability, his next basic attack within 1 second deals 40% less damage, slows his target down by 25% - 50% (+5% per 100AP) for 1 second, and rips the flesh off his target for 2.5 seconds causing his next next damaging ability or basic attack to deal 20% bonus true damage against it. Against minions and monsters, deals 100% bonus damage instead of dealing 40% less damage.

Savagery (Q):

Cooldown: 2/1.75/1.5/1.25/1 second(s); Range: 250 units / 180 degrees

Rengar slashes his blades in the target direction, dealing 35/40/45/50/55(+65%tAD) physical damage to struck enemies and healing for 20% of the damage dealt (one-third healing against minions and small monsters).

Ferocity: Rengar slashes twice, one after the other, the second slash dealing 32% [+1% per level] damage and reducing the target's healing and shielding by 40% for 2.5 seconds.

All-In Stab (W):

Cooldown: 11/10/9/8/7 seconds; Range: 125 / 250 units

Rengar clasps his blades together and plunges a short distance in the target direction, stunning the first enemy struck for 1.25 seconds and dealing 50/65/80/95/110(+100%bAD) physical damage. If Rengar misses, then he is dealt 20% of his current health to himself.

Ferocity: Deals 10 - 35 (+125%bAD) bonus physical damage and stuns for 0.75 second longer, missing causes Rengar to be dealt an additional 15% of his current health.

Thrill of the Hunt (E):

Cooldown: 60 seconds; Range: 500 / 2500 units

Passive: Whenever Rengar enters brush, Thrill of the Hunt's cooldown is reduced by 2/2.25/2.5/2.75/3 seconds. If Rengar was seen entering brush by an enemy champion, then this reduction increases to 8/9/10/11/12 seconds.

Active: Rengar does a mighty roar around him, fearing nearby enemies for 1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8/2 seconds and dealing 60/75/90/105/120(+50%AP) magic damage.

Rengar heightens his senses and makes his presence known for the next 5 seconds, allowing him to see nearby enemy champions, but nearby enemy champions gain full sight of Rengar and what is near him. During this time, Rengar gains 40/55/70/85/100%(+10% per 100AP) bonus movement speed towards visible enemy champions and his next basic attack gains 600 bonus range and causes him to leap on his target.

Ferocity: Rengar's roar fears nearby enemies for 0.5 second longer and deals 40 - 90 (+100%AP) bonus magic damage.

Gruesome Killer (R):

Cooldown: 40/36/32/28/ 24/20/16/12 seconds; Range: 425 / 800 units

Passive: When an unique enemy champion dies and Rengar gains a kill or assist from it, then its skull is added to Rengar's trophy collection, granting him 1 bonus ability point that breaks the rules of ranking up abilities. Gruesome Killer has a maximum of 8 ranks.

Active: Rengar channels in place and flails his blades all around him for 1.5 seconds, dealing 150/180/210/240/ 270/300/330/360 (+100/125/150/175/ 200/225/250/275%tAD) physical damage over the duration to nearby enemies and then leaping to the target location.

Upon leaping away, Rengar will execute any enemies that were below 15/20/25% health, at levels 6/11/16.

UPDATE NOTES:

Ferocity: Ferocity is on every 4th spell cast by the way, the 4th spell cast is what consumed the Ferocity.

Reduced champion damage for basic attack after spell cast to 40% from 25% Added a new effect where this attack will also rip the flesh off his target for 2.5 seconds, causing the next damaging ability or attack to deal true damage against it, instead of its normal damage type.

Savagery: Damage lowered to 35/40/45/50/55 (+65%tAD) from 32/39/46/53/60 (+70%tAD)

All-In Stab: Dash range remains at 125 units Its attack range increased to 250 from 125 units Total range increased to hit a target to 375 from 250 units Missing penalty changed to 20% current health self-damage from 1.25 seconds stunned duration Empowered missing penalty changed to 35% current health self-damage from 2 seconds stunned duration

Base damage lowered to 50/65/80/95/110 from 60/80/100/120/140

Ferocity bonus damage changed to 10 - 35 (+125%bAD) bonus PHYSICAL damage from 10 - 40 (+75%bAD) bonus TRUE damage.

Thrill of the Hunt: Entering brush cooldown refund increased to 2 - 3 seconds based on rank from 1 - 3 seconds When seen entering brush by enemy champions, increased to 8 - 12 seconds based on rank from 4 - 12 seconds

(This is just to help make the brush refund worth doing in the early game at only 1 point in the spell.)

Base damage lowered to 60/75/90/105/120 from 60/80/100/120/140

Ferocity base damage lowered to 40 - 90 from 40 - 100

Gruesome Killer: Assists against unique champion takedowns after level 6 are no longer within a 3 second window, now you gain the ability point whether you gain a kill or assist against the champion to help Rengar get his extra 5 ability points slightly easier. The extra points can be used to rank up his basic abilities earlier remember! You can just wait to max out your ultimate by the end if you so desire to do so!

5 Comments

99White Terror991 votes

well, as a rengar main, i can tell you that the only thing i like of this concept if the fear on E, it works better with the concept of the powerfull roar, but for everything else it's basically a new champ and there is so much i don't like that i could write pages, explaining also why i don't like it but i'll try to say only the main problems.

keep in mind you proposed a concept for a champ that works pretty well and has a nice kit, so a rework for him should be aimed also for rengar mains, so they can still enjoy play him with at list a similar playstyle

passive: you are tacking away one of the main tools of rengar, his leap, a rengar main love to go in and out of a bush, jumping on enemies and then jumping again, with this concept you give the opportunity to leap only with E and R and it's more tricky and you basically nullify all the experience that a rengar main has with this mechanic; also the mechanic of the empowered abilities is a little wierd, moreover the less damage on the basic auto doesn't make sense, it doesn't work with the concept of the assassin, and the +5% per 100AP force you to go way more ap than you do now to benefit it, or even with an hybrid build, changing completely the build path that there is now

Q: it's the old Q, and it's even worse than the old Q, we don't want the swimming lion ever again (and it's on 1 sec cooldown at max rank... imagine it in game, a rengar that spam it, and this will mess up your passive because you could have and empowered ability every 1,5 sec with max cdw reduction)

W: wtf is this thing, the gain you have landing it isn't worth the risk of missing it, maybe the concept is good but it doesn't work for me

E: the passive is so strange and concidering it should be it's old passive, makes it even worse, the reason of this is written above when i talk about the passive. As i told you before, the only good thing is the fear, but every thing else isn't good at all, i can see you what you are trying to do, considering your idea, but who would use an ability that reveals you, you tried to use the bonus mov speed to solve this issue but for me it doesn't work because again, to use all the power of it you are force to build to much AP because you have +10% per 100AP

R: at rank 1, it has a lower cdw than your E, and i can't figure out how you could max the ultimate all these times, with the bonus ability points but it's a mechanic that doesn't work, this passive should replace the actual passive but it doesn't give any satisfaction at all and the reward you gain for collecting all the 8 skulls isn't worth the effort

this rework change rengar from a good and terrifing assassin, to a swimming ap bruiser that sometimes leaps out of water, not a single rengar player would like it, with this rework you would completely destroy a champ a with him also a part of the league community

N.B.: i would also add, you only have 997 mastery point on Rengar, you don't even know how it feels to play him, i'm not saying you shouldn't imagine something new, like concepts or anything else, but please, think a little more on WHAT you are thinking about

Stacona1 votes

An AP ratio does not force the player to build AP, and I want to remove unhealthy gameplay from the kit while making him unique to other assassins, not a reskin. He is going to be an assassin that kills his target over time, this allows him useful utility and not be feast or famine with damage.

~ Q is intended to be a spammy, low damage nuke and charge Ferocity, and it is every 4th ability cast gets empowered and empowered abilities share the same cooldown now removing the double-up. I want to slow down his damage and make him an "unpretty" assassin, this helps give counter play as well as seeing him coming, his presence is known, but he eventually gets to his target and takes them down like the lion that he is!

~ W is risk vs reward, the stun basically ensures your kills and your slow helps land your stun. Maybe the self-stun can go down a little.

~ E passively is giving the brush interaction, having a leap every time you go into brush is not balanced and not fun to go against. Again you don't need to build any ability power, the spell is a decision between an AoE fear or ensuring to get to your target, and then slowly ripping them to pieces. The spell gives a massive movement speed buff for 5 seconds and a long range point-and-click leap, you just need to think more of when and how you use it since it reveals your targets, but also reveals yourself.

~ R, E is on a shorter cooldown, you can go in and out of brush 3 to 5 times (based on CDR) at max rank and get your E cooldown refunded, there is no same brush cooldown like what he has now - you can also walk through 3 brushes when running at a target at max rank and CDR to leap at the target and also have it back up for the fear. Gaining kills and assists already gives gold, I am trying to make Rengar not super snowbally and collecting trophies in this way will make Rengar players feel something worth getting a fast as possible, but you WILL gain your UNIQUE kills/assists after level 6 eventually, other 3 ranks you get from 6/11/16 like normal. Purpose of the ultimate is to be used as a finisher and as your get away tool.

Rengar is 100% AD, the AP ratios are there because you either awkwardly have no ratio or get an AP ratio. I want to change how people think about assassins and have them viable without feeling unfair or oppressive to play against. Super mobile one-shot champions is NOT healthy for the game and that aspect needs to go and Rengar's character makes more sense to slowly kill his target and be seen chasing down his target rather than having stealth and running into brush to jump out of it.

99White Terror991 votes

ok, i appreciate the fact you responded me, i understand better your point of view, but i can't agree with you for one big point. assassins don't kill their target slowly, they are assassin, burst the target, as fast as you can, this is the reason they are assassins and this is how you are supposed to play them and this reason an assassin is the best champ for snowballing. if you think of all the assassins in the game there isn't a single one of them that won't snowball a game if they can because this i s their playstyle, this is how you are supposed to play them and this is how they are supposed to be; obviously, if one of them snowballs every game maybe he's to strong so they nerf him, but there's a balance where if you are good and you can snowball, you will win fast, if the game goes normally you will be usefull if you don't fall behind, but if you fall behind you will be worse than a minion, and this is also the reason assassins are so difficult to balance. assassins are oppressive, because this is how they have to be, if they are too oppressive they need to be nerfed, but this is their playstyile.

an assassin who kills slowly the target can't be defined as an assassin, he would be more like a bruiser, a diver or a tank.

an assassin si unique not for the time he uses to kill the target but for how he kills it, and there isn't another assassin that plays like rengar, some of them can be similar (i played talon and i think he's the one who is the most similar to rengar), but noone is like him.

for the unhealthy part, rengar is unhealthy only if is way more fed than the enemies, and this is their fault because they lost to the early and they fed a strong assassin, and if this happens, if they play together as 5, a rengar that jumps into 5 enemies will die without killing any of them because he will be stunned, they can protect their carries, they can move so the mark of the ult isn't on a carry or on someone important, there are so much things they can do to prevent the oneshot. the bush mechanic isn't unhealthy, if the enemy can think he can counter it easily, just stay out of the range of the bush, direct the minions so they are far away from the bushes so rengar can't jump, if he let rengar set up the lane and moving the minions near the bush or stay near them, well, you deserve the punishment for playing against rengar in his territory, you know what he can do and you have to play respecting the champ.

with this logic there are plenty of things that are unhealthy and that should be changed, but they are unhealthy only because the enemy doesn't know how to play against, when they learn how to counter them, they won't be unhealthy anymore, and if you counter them well you win the matchup.

N.B.: if there are some mistakes it's because i'm italian, and i don't speak perfectly english

Stacona1 votes

If this was a single player game, you can do quick kills and be super mobile. This is a PvP game and we HAVE to change how assassins work the game for game health reasons and fairness, also helps assassins to get played without being broken.

99White Terror991 votes

so basically, you want to eliminate from the game one entire class of champions. for the same reason then you should have completely change tanks when they were so powerfull they could you without dying, or you should completely change fizz because his E is one of the most unhealthy things in the entire game and for the same reason vayne who oneshot you in 3 hits after a certain point in the game, or draven who can oneshot you early with one or two axes, and for the same reason you should completely rework annie because with her area stun you are dead without any possible counterplay

and btw, maybe i didn't explain well before, assassins are broken if you feed them, you can't pretend that a fed assassin mustn't be broken, you want to change this situation: hey, look, there a 20/4 zed and i'm a 1/12 miss fortune, let's try to kill him 1s later, holy shit i've been oneshotted but zed it's so unhealthy for the game, he oneshot you in the blink of an eye

THIS is what assassins are made for, and every champ if it's fed is broken, believe me that an assassin in early can't oneshot you, he kills you only if he plays better than you during that fight, if you continue to fight him and you continue to lose, he will be fed, and he will be broken, as you said but this definition fo broken is wrong

a champ is broken if his way too overpowered during all stages of the game, it doesn't matter if it's during early, mid or late, i can't explain it well, but you only have to think about the nerfs you read in patch notes

More from Concepts & Creations

A completely serious, totally legit question for Riot.
Concepts & Creations183 comments
2,280
votes
[Champion Concept] DhaMa, The Force of Balance
Concepts & Creations931 comments
1,424
votes
Elderwood Kindred
Concepts & Creations176 comments
1,062
votes
Bring Urgot's Nipple Back!
Concepts & Creations94 comments
985
votes
Petition To Have An Old Lady Champion
Concepts & Creations481 comments
947
votes
When Tahm Kench eats Lulu, he should say that it tasted purple!
Concepts & Creations109 comments
826
votes

More by Stacona

I am really happy that new Nunu + Willump is not a dark edgelord
Gameplay70 comments
64
votes
I feel ike... Cull needs a buff...
Gameplay65 comments
55
votes
The Burst Age for League of Legends Straight Up is NOT fun to play in!
Gameplay68 comments
50
votes
The One Buff Bard He Needs!
Gameplay24 comments
50
votes
This is a Creative Works Forum
Concepts & Creations72 comments
48
votes
Nexus Towers in 8.11
Gameplay31 comments
46
votes