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FOLLOW-UP to @MaliciousMetal and other Morde players; What is Morde's ideal identity?

AHarmlessTaco··7 votes·1,287 views

IMPORTANT NOTE: As someone who is developing hobbyist rework skills, please let me know what you LIKE about this, if anything. I am fine with things not being great overall or even having to scrap ideas entirely, but if you LIKE something please let me know. Direction-wise, knowing what works helps.

Hey everyone, After reading through a lot of feedback, here is my first iteration of a Mordekaiser rework. Here I try to maintain Mordekaiser's current identity as a soul-enslaving metal master with minimal CC and mobility. This kit was designed to give Mordekaiser the tools to aggressively march on his Cursed target, as well as ample AOE to dissuade enemy champions from getting between him and his target. I tackled Mordekaiser's ult a little differently than some may have liked, making it feel more like a curse than a Rylai's enabling tool. I did take the liberty of maintaining Mordekaiser's mixed damage and made it possible for Mordekaiser to pick up items like Black Cleaver and Thornmail and Rylai's with little conflict.

Passive: Iron Man

Mordekaiser takes up to 25% reduced damage from projectiles based on the distance between himself and his aggressor on impact (Max@1000 units). Additionally, Mordekaiser does not gain magic resistance per level. Instead, a percentage of his bonus armor is converted into magic resistance.

Q: Mace of Spades

ACTIVE: Mordekaiser’s next three basic attacks are enhanced and modified to deal half magic damage. These attacks deal massively increased damage on every third hit against Cursed opponents (resets when the Curse fades, not when Mace of Spades ends).

If an enemy champion is afflicted by Mordekaiser’s Curse, basic attacks empowered by Mace of Spades knock other enemy champions aside on hit (perpendicular to the linear divide between Mordekaiser and his Cursed target), briefly stunning them if they collide with terrain.

Mace of Spades resets Mordekaiser’s autoattack timer.

W: Harvester of Sorrow

FIRST CAST: Mordekaiser surrounds himself and each of his bound specters (melee and caster minions have a smaller AoE) in clouds of shrapnel for up to 6 seconds, gaining bonus resistances and dealing physical damage to all nearby enemies each second based on his ability power and armor. When Harvester of Sorrow ends, each enemy in range takes bonus magic damage equal to the damage taken while this ability was active and Mordekaiser gains 40% of the total premitigation damage dealt to enemy champions (reduced to 10% against minions and small monsters) by this ability as a shield (up to 50% of his maximum health) that lasts until Harvester of Sorrow is reactivated.

SECOND CAST: Mordekaiser hurls the shrapnel from himself and his specters forward, reducing the armor and magic resistance of all enemies hit and dealing damage based on the time remaining on Harvester of Sorrow’s duration when cast. The shrapnel then returns to Mordekaiser, dealing magic damage on its return and granting Mordekaiser a shield based on the total damage done by this ability. This shield is capped at 50% of Mordekaiser’s maximum health and rapidly decays to 25% of its original value over 5 seconds, but remains until broken thereafter.

E: Rein the Weak

ACTIVE: Mordekaiser wrenches the souls of enemies in his gaze for 3 seconds, harming them for (a percentage of their maximum health) magic damage each second. While active, Mordekaiser enslaves the souls of minions and monsters below 5% of their maximum health, executing their mortal bodies and forcing their spirits to fight for him. Enemies enslaved this way are resurrected as specters with modified health (-2.5% maximum health for every 100 health) that slowly decays over 60 seconds. Does not apply to champions or Epic Monsters.

R: Children of the Grave

PASSIVE - DRAGON FORCE: Mordekaiser's basic attacks and abilities Curse the Dragon and Rift Herald for 10 seconds.

ACTIVE: Mordekaiser blasts an enemy champion, dealing magic damage and afflicting them with an increasingly debilitating curse over the next 10 seconds, ending if Mordekaiser dies. After 2 seconds of being cursed, Mordekaiser’s target becomes grounded for the duration. After 5 seconds of being cursed, Mordekaiser’s target receives an increasingly powerful slow for the duration (from 0% to 20%). Finally, after 8 seconds of being cursed, Mordekaiser’s target is nearsighted for the final 2 seconds of the Curse. Mordekaiser laughs at each interval of the curse. All summoned specters actively chase down Mordekaiser's target for the duration, gaining bonus resistance for the duration.

CURSE: If Mordekaiser's team scores a takedown on a Cursed enemy, he temporarily enslaves their soul as a controllable ghost. Enslaving the Dragon or Rift Herald will kill Mordekaiser's current ghost and prevent him from summoning a new one while it survives.

SECOND ACTIVE: While a ghost is active, Children of the Grave can be used to move them to the target location.

Let me know what you think, I'm very open to scrapping things if they look terrible.

34 Comments

Harry Dresden4 votes

Change the name of E from Rein the Weak to Master of Puppets. Fits the naming scheme better.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Heh. That's pretty solid...

Harry Dresden2 votes

All his abilities are names after Metal songs :p

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

HA Really? I didn't know that. I recognized the name you threw out as a song and found it really funny. Didn't know they were all like that.

EDIT: I guess I knew Iron Man was a song.... lols

Decrit3 votes

Oook, let' s do this. A foreword: i don' t speak in professional terms regarding balance, so i am not extremely focused on tournaments or high elo ( the latter should actually be a focus of mine, but i am just relaxing my judgment there because we are all her efor funsies and ar enot professionals after all) but i speak in terms of what can make a player click, what can be engaging and creative from a player view.

Passive:

Mordekaiser takes up to 25% reduced damage from projectiles based on the distance between himself and his aggressor on impact >(Max@1000 units).

I find this nice. Not what i was expecting from mordekaiser honestly, and probably too much stat-checky and hard counter-yi, but is a tool that can allow Morde to have a proper niche as the anti-poke melee champion, both top and botlane ( if that will ever be again the case, which i don't mind). There are surely way better ways to put stuff like this so it can be more flexible ( only a small subset of damage is done by AA's only aniway, so finding a way to extend it to single target spells or such wound not be bad ) and have windows of opportunity to interact with ( rather just being like "hue i resist"), but the core concept of it is not that bad at all.

Additionally, Mordekaiser does not gain magic resistance per level. Instead, a percentage of his bonus armor is converted into magic >resistance.

Puts down glasses This is shit. In more gentle terms, i don' t know what this part of the passive is supposed to do, and why this should be a nice choice for anything. While i do personally not flavour stat-increasing passive i can see reasoning behind it: Ryze has mana scalings to allow him realize a mage-spammer fantasy without getting too much free stuff and by letting him scale hard in late game, Vladimir has HP scalings so he can have a play pattern more focused on endurance rather nuking people ( even thought he still deals a fuckton of damage). What is this supposed to do? I can see the thematic correlation between Morde being a possessed armor and the armor stat but the correlation ends there. This basically seems to me to exist only to make less palateable half of the damage mitigation items avaiable, which include scepter of the abyss and spirit visage, which do not only restrict his pick choice but also shortens his build depth. The fact that also Morde doe snot gain MR with level only makes him more feast and famine, forced to get armor as soon as possible before he starts getitng blowed up by random magic damage in mid game or forced to get straight up magic armor forsaking this part of the passive entirely. I don' t even think that he needs to be so much anti-ad focused, since we have already a bunch of champions that scale properly already with armor that are ok and rock hard at their job, and do it much better than Morde in this form. If you really want to make Morde scale out of some items, maybe mana is a better suggestion so he can make an use of it?

Q: Mace of Spades:

ACTIVE: Mordekaiser’s next three basic attacks are enhanced and modified to deal half magic damage. These attacks deal massively >increased damage on every third hit against Cursed opponents (resets when the Curse fades, not when Mace of Spades ends). If an enemy champion is afflicted by Mordekaiser’s Curse, basic attacks empowered by Mace of Spades knock other enemy champions >aside on hit (perpendicular to the linear divide between Mordekaiser and his Cursed target), briefly stunning them if they collide with >terrain. Mace of Spades resets Mordekaiser’s autoattack timer.

I both don' t get it and find it scary at the same time. So first of all the skill is almost useless before 6. I don' t get the reasoning behind this unless you want to make Morde at all costs to be weak early and scale from mid game onward, if that' s the case while i don' t agree i understand it and i can accept it. Different POV, different ideas after all. But then again, why the knock aside? I mean, thematically is cool while being absurdly overpowered ( a knockup every Q basic attack?!) but at the same time is useless - Morde both theorically and apparently in this version is supposed to fight close to his enemies, why should he put targets away from him? By your passive he event gets armor, he is supposed to stay close and face the enemies to make good use of it, especially if they are autoattackers! You can' t even use this to peel for your adc, unless rare and weird cases, and the knock aside feels too much out of control and present to be useful fopr other allies too!

W: Harvester of Sorrow:

Snippet. too much long :P

The first part is nice, it' s basically an alteration on the already existing W that gives a shield instead of health. The reactivation part doubles on that on flexibility, which is nice too.

But overall, it does too many things. it is confusing, it' s a mixed bag of nice ideas put all together. I am not saying it is overpowered because of course there are no numbers, but if it were a real ability then something would have been trimmed out else it would act and feel like a blunt ability with really low numbers, first and foremost the armor and magic resistance bonus since it is an effetc barely noticeable on short terms ( the condorum about stat increasing abilitie sis that unless they ar every strong they make little impact, since those are stats meant to be used over long periods of time). For example i do not get why the damage should be increased based on the remaining duration, unless you want it to scale non-linearly, and i don' t see why it should grant somehow the same benefits ( they are very similar, even thought one is more long-term based and one short-term) of the end duration. Personally i would find it a much more entertaining ability if it had 2 different effects on the effect end and reactivation, putting the player ina position where he must choose between the best use to do in both cases or being able to put himself in that case. Your proposal does that in a very blunt way, where the question basically is not a broad "what is the best use?" but rather a more narrow "can i afford to be a boss?/Can i execute him?"

E: Rein the Weak: ( master of puppets is better tho)

ACTIVE: Mordekaiser wrenches the souls of enemies in his gaze for 3 seconds, harming them for (a percentage of their maximum health) >magic damage each second. While active, Mordekaiser enslaves the souls of minions and monsters below 5% of their maximum health, >executing their mortal bodies and forcing their spirits to fight for him. Enemies enslaved this way are resurrected as specters with >modified health (-2.5% maximum health for every 100 health) that slowly decays over 60 seconds. Does not apply to champions or Epic >Monsters.

So, i like the gaze-like effect. Been waiting for it in the Sion update, even thought i was not disappointed in the end. The minion effect - much less. Basically is a crude version of Yorick passive crossbred with the old Yorick kit, onlt that it can get enhanced even more by his W. I like that he is able to reach out for far enemies, but the minion aspect clashes on what he is supposed to do, and how he does that. In many phases of the game, the minion aspect of the spell is useless and since it would end up balanced around that it would feel really weak. In lane either makes him oppressive or proves to be totally useless, barely allowing him to CS. Also i overall don' t like it because it does not make me feel like having agency on minions. it is very crude, in short. It would have felt better if W allowed him to chase his minions better than giving them shield, but barely better IMO.

R: Children of the Grave:

snippet

I like how it interacts with rift herald, gives him more purpose on being top early game! Overall this spell is pretty much the same, i don' t like the overload of CC on the passive besides maybe the grounded effect ( which i don' t know how matters much) because it' s rather light and the blindsight that fits well if you want to make him more focuse don being an anti-ranged champion. Bonus cool points for the laugh.

So, this ends it. Damn i was harsh, sorry for that :P I hope i have been useful in my explanations however, whenever or not you agree with them.

In short, i find this rework a mixed bag of different nice ideas (not everyone stares at armor scaling passive) that is not cohese. It doe snot feel to have a proper direction, with the champion being so much focuse don stacking armor without much to do with it, basically becoming a barrel of iron that summons minions. I do not think that this would make for a more interesting morde, let alone a better one :P

still, it was a nice read. it' s nice to see different opinions sometimes.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Oook, let' s do this.

You’re on. >:D I will try to tear apart your critiques as much as you tore apart my rework, just to be sure we are clear on what I was going for. I am 100% okay with scrapping and agreeing with you in many places though.

Passive: Mordekaiser takes up to 25% reduced damage from projectiles based on the distance between himself and his aggressor on impact.

...probably too much stat-checky and hard counter-yi, but is a tool that can allow Morde to have a proper niche as the anti-poke melee champion, both top and botlane. There are surely way better ways to put stuff like this so it can be more flexible ( only a small subset of damage is done by AA's only aniway, so finding a way to extend it to single target spells or such wound not be bad ) and have windows of opportunity to interact with ( rather just being like "hue i resist"), but the core concept of it is not that bad at all.

I agree that this could turn out to be too stat checky, and uninteractive. One idea I had was to keep this the same, but to have a recharging mechanic out of combat, something like a secondary (or tertiary) resource bar that acts as a shield ONLY against projectiles. That shield would take the damage for you in all of these instances, that way large amounts of harass will eventually ignore the reduction.

Regarding flexibility, notice that this does not only apply to AA’s. It is like Yasuo/Braum in its selection. Brand Q would be reduced, Varus Q would be reduced, Kennen’s shuriken, etc… Really anyone with a skill shot poke would have a harder time harming Mordekaiser. This VERY much leads to my next point.

Mordekaiser does not gain magic resistance per level. Instead, a percentage of his bonus armor is converted into magic resistance.

Puts down glasses This is shit. In more gentle terms, i don' t know what this part of the passive is supposed to do, and why this should be a nice choice for anything. While i do personally not flavour stat-increasing passive i can see reasoning behind it: Ryze has mana scalings to allow him realize a mage-spammer fantasy without getting too much free stuff and by letting him scale hard in late game, Vladimir has HP scalings so he can have a play pattern more focused on endurance rather nuking people ( even thought he still deals a fuckton of damage). What is this supposed to do? I can see the thematic correlation between Morde being a possessed armor and the armor stat but the correlation ends there. This basically seems to me to exist only to make less palateable half of the damage mitigation items avaiable, which include scepter of the abyss and spirit visage, which do not only restrict his pick choice but also shortens his build depth. The fact that also Morde doe snot gain MR with level only makes him more feast and famine, forced to get armor as soon as possible before he starts getitng blowed up by random magic damage in mid game or forced to get straight up magic armor forsaking this part of the passive entirely. I don' t even think that he needs to be so much anti-ad focused, since we have already a bunch of champions that scale properly already with armor that are ok and rock hard at their job, and do it much better than Morde in this form. If you really want to make Morde scale out of some items, maybe mana is a better suggestion so he can make an use of it?

Yo dawg, put your glasses back on and reason with me.

  1. Thematic Reasons - Morde is armor and continues to build armor for the sake of being a cool armor dude. K.
  2. This is a much larger concept that you did hit some points on. Right now, Morde can build any item he wants and benefit from it. And this gives him great item diversity. What I don't like is that Morde has to choose a Magic Resist item.

Abyssal- he deals mixed damage Spirit Visage - he doesnt heal anymore really (may be a problem with health costs actually...) Banshees Veil - He is a juggernaut Maw of Malmortius- Debatable, but not feeling it Mercurial Scimitar- Kinda negates the whole CC him thing

None of these seem great. By allowing Mordekaiser to gain MR from armor, I give him a pseudo per level scaling due to natural armor growth, PLUS I really feel this could open up the door to him WANTING armor items like Deadman's Plate and Thornmail. That said, if he DOESNT opt into armor items, aka defensive items, he gets a double whammy of having little of either resistance. I thought that since Mordekaiser is supposed to counter ANYONE that gets up in his face AND ADCs, maybe mages should be his general counter. This kind of mechanic would make him have fairly clear weaknesses to anyone magic heavy until later on when he has invested into armor and has leveled up. KEEP IN MIND. Mordekaiser gains the 25% reduction against projectiles, so some Mages would still be okay for him to fight. Not great, but okay. Again, I'm not so much disagreeing with you as explaining my thought process.

Q: Mace of Spades:

I both don' t get it and find it scary at the same time. So first of all the skill is almost useless before 6. I don' t get the reasoning behind this unless you want to make Morde at all costs to be weak early and scale from mid game onward, if that' s the case while i don' t agree i understand it and i can accept it. But then again, why the knock aside? I mean, thematically is cool while being absurdly overpowered ( a knockup every Q basic attack?!) but at the same time is useless - Morde both theorically and apparently in this version is supposed to fight close to his enemies, why should he put targets away from him? By your passive he event gets armor, he is supposed to stay close and face the enemies to make good use of it, especially if they are autoattackers! You can' t even use this to peel for your adc, unless rare and weird cases, and the knock aside feels too much out of control and present to be useful fopr other allies too!

I never said that the Q had to be really weak. It can be a decent damage steroid, I am just not a fan of the whole Flash-3rd-Q thing. For clarification, I was saying that the AA's deal bonus damage based on AP/AD AND half of that damage output is converted to magic damage. EX: // Next 3 AA's deal 120% AD + 60% AP damage, half of which is physical, the other half is magic. I see nothing wrong with that in the early game. The knock aside was a thematic element (LOTR OP) but it also makes him opponents very leery to get between Morde and his Cursed target. I envision Mordekaiser wanting to kill the ADC and stopping at nothing to get to them. Keep in mind, he would not knock away the person he Ults. Only those who he doesn't care about killing. It could be gimicky, but it also gives the impression of IM COMING FOR YOU. Peel wise, it could be a little strong for morde to ult someone then to knock everyone else away from your team, but IDK. This one was a stretch but I imagined it being pretty interesting. You get ganked while ulting someone, your basic attacks knock away their jungler like DONT INTERFERE MORTAL. Y'know?

PART 2 IN PROGRESS

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

W: Harvester of Sorrow:

The first part is nice, it' s basically an alteration on the already existing W that gives a shield instead of health. The reactivation part doubles on that on flexibility, which is nice too.

But overall, it does too many things. it is confusing, it' s a mixed bag of nice ideas put all together. I am not saying it is overpowered because of course there are no numbers, but if it were a real ability then something would have been trimmed out else it would act and feel like a blunt ability with really low numbers, first and foremost the armor and magic resistance bonus since it is barely noticeable on short terms ( the condorum about stat increasing abilities is that unless they are very strong they make little impact, since those are stats meant to be used over long periods of time). For example i do not get why the damage should be increased based on the remaining duration, unless you want it to scale non-linearly, and i don' t see why it should grant somehow the same benefits ( they are very similar, even thought one is more long-term based and one short-term) of the end duration. Personally i would find it a much more entertaining ability if it had 2 different effects on the effect end and reactivation, putting the player ina position where he must choose between the best use to do in both cases or being able to put himself in that case. Your proposal does that in a very blunt way, where the question basically is not a broad "what is the best use?" but rather a more narrow "can i afford to be a boss?/Can i execute him?"

Thank you, I tried to make it a more interactive skill in some neat ways. I also wanted to keep the original passive in some form and I figured this might be his most damaging ability in fights with the AOE. I agree, the Armor and MR could go. What I was aiming for was a skill in which morde had to decide between AOE damage and resistance during his death march, and a salvo that could be thrown at a target that he cant reach. Say an assassin jumps on his Cursed target, Morde could throw this (forfeiting his march bonus) to deal some damage and shred their resistances. What I didnt want, was for this to be a free double skill that morde throws at the last second without trade off. Hence the fall of damage based on duration. Ultimately, the ability is simple in game. Death March OR poke, then you get a shield. I was blunt yes, but I don't mind some straight forwardness in a kit like this. ALSO, this had in mind that it would be replicated from all of his minions! SEE BELOW

E: Rein the Weak: Master of Puppets:

So, i like the gaze-like effect. Been waiting for it in the Sion update, even thought i was not disappointed in the end. The minion effect - much less. Basically is a crude version of Yorick passive crossbred with the old Yorick kit, onlt that it can get enhanced even more by his W. I like that he is able to reach out for far enemies, but the minion aspect clashes on what he is supposed to do, and how he does that. In many phases of the game, the minion aspect of the spell is useless and since it would end up balanced around that it would feel really weak. In lane either makes him oppressive or proves to be totally useless, barely allowing him to CS. Also i overall don' t like it because it does not make me feel like having agency on minions. it is very crude, in short. It would have felt better if W allowed him to chase his minions better than giving them shield, but barely better IMO.

Minions would NOT be useless because they work with the W and R. They become terrifying AOE monkeys that rush the ulted target and get harder to kill. This was meant to make Morde feel like he commands an army (Lore) and to give him some neat tools to push waves or to get extra AOE in a fight. I do agree with the Yorick overlap unfortunately. I went without the minion chase or anything because a lot of people didnt seem to like the non-self cast W so I went for a middle ground. This was a very thematic approach to his kit whilst trying to hold on to some older elements. Reevaluate if you will, but in the end it may be too gimmicky.

R: Children of the Grave:

I like how it interacts with rift herald, gives him more purpose on being top early game! Overall this spell is pretty much the same, i don' t like the overload of CC on the passive besides maybe the grounded effect ( which i don' t know how matters much) because it' s rather light and the nearsight that fits well if you want to make him more focused on being an anti-ranged champion. Bonus cool points for the laugh.

I tried to go light on damage on this ability and more heavy on the curse aspect. This would make him less binary and less dependent on / less able to abuse Rylais. If nothing else, Morde can shut down his target for a while in semi-weak ways that help him reach them without breaking the no hard CC rule. This opens up the rest of Morde's kit to damage IMO and kind of helps the feast or famineness of not killing their ADC. Even if they dont die, he made life hard for them.

So, this ends it. Damn i was harsh, sorry for that :P I hope i have been useful in my explanations however, whenever or not you agree with them.

In short, i find this rework a mixed bag of different nice ideas (not everyone stares at armor scaling passive) that is not cohese. It doe snot feel to have a proper direction, with the champion being so much focused on stacking armor without much to do with it, basically becoming a barrel of iron that summons minions. I do not think that this would make for a more interesting morde, let alone a better one :P

still, it was a nice read. it' s nice to see different opinions sometimes.

I appreciate your feedback so much. I wish I didn't have a terrible headache and that I could have worded things more elegantly. The choppyness of this system makes it hard. Nonetheless, this was a first trial of a rework for someone I have very little experience with first hand. Lots of brainstorming and trying to propose something that is similar to live Morde so that his mains would feel familiar with his kit, yet more able to fulfill their fantasies. Do read the lore however, and note that Morde has an army and that realistically, magic is the only way to defeat him, thus he should have a weakness to magic. (mortal men can't touch him with swords in the lore...)

Praise the Son1 votes

Yo, long time Morde main here (Season 2), what I want for morde is that they make him a good juggernaut. This means he needs the stats to be comparable to other juggernauts and have a bit of cc/mobility to enable him to do a juggernauts job while still remaining kiteable (think darius).

The most important abilities to keep similar in a rework are his passive (though a lot needs to change to make it healthy as discussed by riot) and his ult, which makes more sense as a powerful debuff as you had envisioned. The live iteration of mace of spades is also pretty cool.

What I'd like to see riot do to morde's passive is simply to change it to: Morde gains a shield upon dealing damage with his abilities equal to a percentage of his maximum shield. This shield rapidly decays out of combat (but doesn't decay in combat) and has a maximum shield value of 25% of Morde's maximum health.

These changes would make it so that his passive is still the same, but addresses the issues with snowballing, where it is almost useless when you are behind and cannot do damage to generate shield, and where it is oppressively strong when you are ahead and it shuts out counter play opportunities.

P.S. Riot needs to address all of the bugs.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

SO. NOT THAT I DONT APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENT.... ...but I have a hard time gauging your impression of the proposed changes aside from you [just thinking Mordekaiser needs minor tweaks?].

There was a primary survey I did at http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kopxElF2-maliciousmetal-and-other-morde-players-what-is-mordes-ideal-identity and while I agree with you on some of the points you hit, I felt that more than just tweaking was needed to help Morde out. Please do clarify your stance if I am getting the wrong impression.

I did try to keep the essence of his live Q, but without the silly Flash-Third-Q interaction.

I tried to keep the feeling of his current passive with his W, but overall gave him resistance to range to compensate no mobility.

I tried to give Mordekaiser some CC in the forms of Juggernaut-Stand-Aside and Rylai's-Sub-NoHardCC-Ult

Do these not meet your desires at all regarding the feedback you gave? Not trying to defend myself so much as wanting feedback on why my changes wouldn't work or aren't appealing. :D

Praise the Son1 votes

I'm not a huge fan of the passive, personally and I understand that you sort of moved his old passive to his new w as a passive, I am not a huge fan of the implementation of it. The q seems alright. The w, im not too sure about, would have to see in game. The e seems cool, though it kind of does what yorick does so im not sure. I actually like the ult changes for the most part.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Yeah I'm getting the idea what W and E need some work. It is hard when, Lore-wise, Mordekaiser commands an army and enslaves souls. I'll probably scrap the minion enslaving thing, I just thought it might be cool to throw the W aura on them instead of your allies or minions.

Glad you like the ult. It isn't tuned well but people do seem to like it so far.

Stars Shaper1 votes

I always envisioned Mordekaiser as the unstoppable death which comes for you, he might be slow but he will get to you eventually and your only option is run.

I've never be a fan of him getting CCs or engage tools in his kit, I'd rather see him as not-CCable so that the "counter" to him would be the mobility of his enemies because if he gets in range you are toasted.

Mordepool1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=i3jfngyA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-10-26T17:30:24.909+0000)

I always envisioned Mordekaiser as the unstoppable death which comes for you, he might be slow but he will get to you eventually and your only option is run.

I've never be a fan of him getting CCs or engage tools in his kit, I'd rather see him as not-CCable so that the "counter" to him would be the mobility of his enemies because if he gets in range you are toasted.

Which is why I suggested adding the grounded CC when combo's Q-> E. In the 1st thread. Because if Morde somehow manages to get into melee range a enemies built in dash should not save them. Getting kited by champs with more MS and built in dashes is fine but once I get to you. There should be no escape

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Still something I would strongly consider. My upfront worry is that I see so many times that someone uses a dash at the last second to escape an AA or something (play naut, its weird aaing then seeing someone dash then get rooted). Overall the idea of holding them when you get to them is good though.

Diamond Key11 votes

well at this point the only things I need are the old passive and ultimate (preferably the pre-juggernaut rework ones)

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

You mean that you like his live kit and just want the ult and passive reverted? Why is that?

Diamond Key11 votes

No I meant that when Mordekaiser gets his VGU those are the things I want to stay (or kind of get back)

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

OH. Okay. Well, there are pretty significant problems with both currently, namely the drain-tank playstyle (passive) and Rylai's abuse (ult) and overall feast or famine (both) created by these abilities. In some sense, however, I do think that both are pretty iconic. Shielding, soul stealing, and metal things are what seem to resonate with people.

Diamond Key11 votes

Well to me those abilities are what make Mordekaiser well you know Mordekaiser the Iron Revenant (even though Master of Metal would still be better). But I still get your point and that would not be a bad kit just would not be Mordekaiser to me (but my opinion is not everything surprisingly)

AHarmlessTaco2 votes

I respect your opinion and simply wanted to clarify some existing issues with the things you find iconic. By all means they are important to the kit and if you think the rework is off it probably is. Other people said the same thing. XD

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QszJUdBN8fl6K8dpXSthjWG9T6PvtcCrzgjcvZ3qOyc/edit?usp=sharing

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Whatchu want fam? Sharing just to share or wanting feedback?

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Sharing to share mostly, feedback is cool too.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

The Q is interesting enough IMO, has some of the same elements that mine did with the knock-aside.

Adding in CC of any kind to Morde's kit does present some issue in terms of current expectations, and moving the metal AOE to a fully stacked passive shield seems fairly tacked on. I mean if Morde gets a full shield, chances are he is ahead and winning the fight, this this just added to the feast or famine. Opening a rift in the ground, while cool, seems like something someone else would do, something like a void portal seems appropriate. As per the ult giving MS, not really sure if that would help. At that point Morde has pretty much won so adding in ms or other stats seems kinda meh to me (live ult just seems problematic to me tbh, namely its interaction with Rylais).

Overall though I do think the Q has promise. Knocking away minions helps with creep block and being able to move while dealing damage in front of himself seems like something Morde would appreciate. Not sure how the Triforce community would react given that they would be losing the AA portion of his kit.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Cool, thanks for the feedback.

Mordepool1 votes

Empowered Q applies a curse the. E triggers it and applies grounded for 1sec

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

I think the problem can be getting that Q hit in the first place. Perhaps R applies it then E triggers the grounding? That way at mid range Morde has a much greater chance of getting into melee range.

Backup4now1 votes

This rework certainly would put him on the track to become a proper juggernaut, but since I do not think the juggernaut path is for him I would not go with it. I will, however, judge the kit without relating it to Mordekaiser.

Passive- No clue why the magic resist part is there, or what purpose it serves. The restriction to projectiles makes it worthless against a very large portion of the roster, including characters like Lux and Morgana whose most powerful attacks don't count as projectiles.

Q- Unfortunately, with the rest of the kit changes, the overall damage he brings might have to be reduced massively.

W- You can cut the description down a bit. This ability assumes the user doesn't die instantly, before they can reap the benefits (current morde already has the problem of being unable to doubletap w for the heal in a pinch).

E- May want to rethink how that reduced health thingy works, or simply say "has reduced health". Otherwise good.

R- You underestimate the power of the grounded effect, especially point and click for 8 seconds. The amount of utility you're adding with that and the stuns absolutely forces a much slower kill pattern, which is impossible when the effects of Q are still limited to only three hits; either a super low cooldown is required, or enough damage to kill in one rotation (super broken). This also forces the kit to be mainly base-damage oriented with a tanky build, because being able to scale well with AP/AD with this much utility is bound to be ultra broken.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

If not a juggernaut, what would you like to see Mordekaiser become?

Passive- It was mainly to emphasize a weakness against mages (since he'd be strong against melee and ADC), but also served to open up itemization. Since none of the MR items are particularly appealing to this Morde rework, I figured making his MR scale slightly off of Armor would give Mordekaiser an incentive to build armor items in exchange for a little MR and the option to not build an MR item. As for projectiles, this goes right along with Mordekaiser being weak to mages. While Morde WOULD benefit from this against Morg's Q and Lux's Q, there would be that clear vulnerability to their ults. This is, again, to solidify Morde's niche as an anti-melee and anti-ADC champion.

Q- Very possible.

W- That is a reasonable concern. A good one actually. I would probably need to tweak this somehow or change it altogether to make the shield actively stack while he is dealing damage.

E- Yeah, it was mainly a placeholder to say that you can enslave Large Monsters but they won't be as ridiculous as they are in the jungle.

R- The ult would certainly need a lot of tuning, but the concept was what I was trying to push. The thing about the grounding lasting 8 seconds is that it takes 2 seconds to actually work, granting his opponent ample time to dash away, flash, back off, whatever. After that 2 second period though, they would have to rely on kiting and CC to escape Morde. As for the Q, I do want it to kill in one rotation, but keep in mind that the massive damage would come from a 3rd subsequent hit against a target. No more AA AA flash AA cheese.

All in all though I do agree that this kit is not as well tuned as it could be, but I was going for a direction more than fine details at this time. Thank you for the feedback, you made some solid points to be considered.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

1v2'in ganks of course ;)

Huehuehue mordekaiser es numero uno always sheild nevir die

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

All day unless they are ranged or have some solid CC.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

I hate cc .-.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

So does Morde.

AHarmlessTaco1 votes

Passive: Iron Man

Mordekaiser passively charges a magnetic shield that takes up to 25% of all damage that would be dealt to him based on the distance between himself and his aggressor on impact. If this shield is broken, it remains disabled until it is at 50% of its maximum strength.

Q: Nightfall Approaches

FIRST CAST: Mordekaiser’s next 3 basic attacks within 7 seconds deal bonus physical damage on-hit. While active, Mordekaiser also gains the ability to knock away nearby enemies once.

SECOND CAST: After a brief wind-up, Mordekaiser knocks all enemies beside him in the direction of his choosing, limited to a 90 degree cone in front of him. Enemy champions that collide with other champions or terrain are stunned briefly, and any champions that are collided with are stunned for half as long. Enemies knocked away this way may not be knocked away again for 10 seconds.

Mace of Spades resets Mordekaiser’s autoattack timer.

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