(Champ Rework) Warwick, the Blood Hunter

junglerboy16··3 votes·1,626 views

This is a WIP thread, please read this with that in mind.

Warwick needs a rework.

Before any WW mains out there say "No he is fine because I like how he works.", keep in mind that champion reworks are needed or not needed independently of whether or not players love playing them. I LOVE playing Poppy, but she is still toxic and binary and needs a rework, and I will probably dislike parts of her rework, but she needs one nonetheless.

Design Philosophy: My specialty when thinking up champ concepts is fighter/mages or tank/mages. This should fit well for warwick, since he already fits into that general theme and is just a little more focused on on-hit builds right now. Werewolves in my mind are characterized by two things: being extremely dangerous predacious creature, and being nearly invincible. Of course having both of these things at the same time would be very broken, so that is where this kit tries to make its division. My chief goals with this kit redesign are to make his kit more interesting (fewer point and click spells and less focus on passive steroid gameplay), yet still keep it simple and beginner friendly for a newer player (he IS a 450 IP champion after all). His new kit will focus on giving him two separate identities that he can utilize: a nearly unkillable late game drain tank, or a single target pick based assassin (the kind of "I will hunt you down and kill you" type of assassin). The difference between WW now and with my new kit are that currently (at least before the nerfs) he could become both an assassin and an unkillable drain tank simultaneously. This is the majority of what makes him toxic to play against. He can over utilize specific items extremely well. While item synergy is generally a good thing, when it goes too far, it breaks the champion (forcing them to be nerfed brutally until they can be reworked, like any other broken champion).

For the sake of simplicity, I will not be messing with his base stats, although there may be some need for tweaks, they are not the real culprit.

Kit: Passive, Eternal thirst: Warwicks basic attacks deal bonus magic damage and heal him for a small stacking amount on-hit. Damage: 2% (+(1% AP)%) of target's missing health (max 100 versus monsters). Heal: 0.75% missing health per stack, max 6 stacks. Warwick retains his passive's stacks when he switches targets. Stacks last for 2.5 seconds, and fall off 1 at every 0.5 seconds after, losing all stacks after 5 seconds.

This change keeps his passive relatively the same, giving it game long scaling via percent hp values, while also rewarding warwick for building either offense (AP) or defense (HP). His damage on hit no longer stacks, but instead grows as he attacks because of its execute style damage. the heal on hit does still stack, and the way it remains even after switching targets increases his team fight sustain after ramping up, while the lower stack duration means that he won't just use it to perma heal between fights as well.

Q, Hungering strikes: Active: Warwick empowers his next attack to gain doubled range (250 range) and strike twice dealing bonus magic damage on each hit, healing himself for a portion of the bonus damage. Damage each strike: 35/60/85/110/135 (+40% AP). Heal each strike: 28/48/68/88/108 (+32% AP). The triggering attacks apply on-hit effects and can critically strike as normal, but the bonus magic damage is treated as a spell and triggers spells effects like spell vamp and Rylai's slow. 10/9/8/7/6 second cool down. 75/80/85/90/95 mana.

This spell is slightly weaker as an independent spell than before, since it no longer has any % hp scaling, and the AP ratio is reduced. However, it deals the damage of two basic attacks and applies on hit effects, and the % hp damage got moved to his passive instead. he also has more than one damaging spell now, so this is not a large nerf.

W, Feral lunge: Active: Warwick lunges forward a short distance (400 range), dealing magic damage to the first unit he hits and gaining increased attacks speed for 6 seconds. If he hits an enemy champion, the attack speed is increased by 50% and he immediately gains max stacks of Eternal thirst. Damage: 30/50/70/90/110 (+10% Bonus HP). Attack speed: 20/30/40/50/60% (30/45/60/75/90% if hitting an enemy champion). 20/19/18/17/16 second cool down. 60 mana.

This spell gives WW a little bit more mobility, for whenever he doesn't have a blood scent target, and to help a little for pre 6 ganks. It trades a slightly higher mana cost and slightly lower AS at early levels for a new damaging dash component. The bonus AS and max passive stack vs champions make it easier for WW to finish a kill once he has tracked down his prey. It is relatively low damage, since it is primarily used for the AS and gap closing. It is very short range though, and on a long enough cool down that you do not want to just use it to get around, but to get into a fight.

E, Blood scent/Blood howl: Passive: Warwick passively smells the blood of enemy champions within 1500/2300/3100/3900/4700 range that are below 50% health, gaining 20/25/30/35/40% movement speed (this effect is reduced by 50% if walking away from them). The MS buff and vision lasts for 2 seconds after they either pass above 50% health or move out of range. Active: Warwick howls, fearing the nearest enemy revealed by blood scent for .75 seconds. The feared enemy is slowed by 70% that rapidly decays over 2 seconds (1.25 seconds longer than the fear lasts). 750/1150/1550/1950/2350 range. 20 second cool down. 30 mana.

This spell is still all about utility and remains a non damage source. Blood scent becomes totally passive, but also only marks the nearest enemy, instead of all of them (WW will still be good at hunting down and cleaning up enemies, because as soon as he kills the nearest enemy champion below 50%, the next closest will become visible. This spell seemed like his most iconic, aside from his ult, so It is very similar to live.

R, Bestial frenzy: Active: Warwick lunges forward in a straight line (700 range), stopping at the first enemy champion he hits. If he reaches the end of the dash's range without hitting a champion, he will lock onto the lowest % health champion within 200 range. When he locks onto a champion, he channels for 1.5 seconds and suppresses them for 1.8 seconds, viciously mauling them with his jaws for the duration dealing magic damage every 0.3 seconds (max 5 times). Each bite deals 30/50/70 +3/4/5% missing health (+(2% AP)% missing health) as magic damage and heals Warwick for 1/2/3% of their max health. If the champion he suppressed dies from his damage or is killed during the channel, Warwick howls, healing for and additional 5/10/15% of the targets maximum health and gives allies within 500 range 20/35/50% AS for 4 seconds. If Warwick hits an enemy, the base cool down is reduced by 20%. Warwick is immune to CC during the channel, but takes full damage from all attacks and abilities. 150/125/100 second cool down. 120/100/80 second cool down if an enemy is hit. 100 mana.

This one took a lot of ideation to come up with. Basically, two really important things have changed: It is a skill shot, and it doesn't apply on-hit effects. Warwick's kit will still be able to support an on hit style build because of his passive and his new Q, but his ult can have more guaranteed damage each hit because it doesn't have to consider on-hit items that you might build. It is now styled as an execute ability, to either lock down a target and finish them off quickly as an assassin, or to help get that last bit of damage a full tank Warwick would need. It still isn't the easiest to get the kill with this though, because it can be dodged, and attacking a full health champion will only do minimal % hp damage. It would be exceptional for hard team fight engage (even more so than now) since if the suppressed champion is slain then he buffs his allies and heals himself (which can become quite a powerful heal if he collides with the enemy tank.

Ideally, this new kit would allow AP and tank warwick to coexist simultaneously, while reducing the toxicity of an on-hit build by removing its interaction with his ult. He will still heal for a lot (tank WW healing for 4.5% missing health every attack at max passive stacks would be astounding), but only if he builds for it. AP Warwick will deal a lot of damage, but his sustain will be quite limited. AS Warwick could have a moderate balance of both sustain and tankyness, but would not have the same durability as full tank, or the same execution power of AP (like current AS Warwick does).

21 Comments

Lumus Avatar3 votes

I am a long-time lover of Warwick, and I am not 100% against your rework. It manages to identify the key features of Warwick's kit and keep them as close to the feeling of what we know as possible while still removing the overpowered portions.

There are two things I have issue with.

  1. Warwick, to me, is that Beginner's Jungler champ. He should be cheap, easy to learn, easy to use, and have reliable abilities. All of the recent champs have at least one skillshot ability (Rek'Sai, Kalista, Braum) and some have only skillshot abilities (Vel'Koz). There is nothing inherently wrong with skillshots. I actually like skillshot champs better than point-and-click champs because they feel more rewarding to play and to go against.

However, I feel like having no skillshots is part of WW's appeal. Reliable abilities means no one is criticizing a new player for missing a clutch skillshot. I'm not saying it has to change, I'm just saying that I think that fact is important to keep in mind. You've made two of his most important engage tools reliant on the player's ability to hit a skillshot (which is also dependent on the opponent's ability/inability to dodge it). And then, you punish the player for missing (the ult, at least) with an unreduceable cooldown increase. I am just looking at it from the point of view of someone who just tried to start a teamfight by targeting a key opponent and whiffed. Now my team (because we have such an awesome playerbase) is yelling at me AND I have to wait extra time to try again. I see that you gave a grace zone - the 200 range lockon for a whiff. That is a good idea and I'd be interested to see if it's enough. I can tell you right now that I hate Malphite's ult with a passion because it seems the slightest change in an enemy's position can ruin a stellar engage and turn it into a free death.

  1. His Bloodscent is no longer toggle-able. Why? Part of me says YAY! I can't tell you how many times I accidentally toggled it off when I needed it to chase when I was new. But as a more advanced player now, being able to turn it on and off so I can sneak in close before diving an enemy seems very valuable to me. Also, while your change about who is revealed is cool and reduces potential over-poweredness, it also gives the enemy team a better idea where WW is on the map since only the closest champ to him (at lower than 50% hp) has a mark on them. That said, I really like the active ability.

These are my main concerns, and this from someone who hates the idea of changing WW.

junglerboy162 votes

Thanks for the great feedback!

I'm really glad to hear that I seem to have kept him "Warwick" enough to please a long time player. I have been mulling over this concept ever since I heard that they decided to axe ZenontheStoic's original rework concept, and I really was hoping that it succeeded in changing him just enough to liven up his kit and fix his main issues but not Olaf him or end up with a Cass style hack job.

I totally hear what you are saying about having skill shots on a 450 IP champion, and I also feel that he has always seemed like "The beginner jungler champ". I agree that part of what makes him good right now is that he has 0 skill shots and is comparatively easy to play. I would like to point out though that there are several other 450 IP Champs with 1 or more skill shot style abilities, like Sivir, Ashe, Soraka, Annie, and, as of recently, Amumu. I would like to clarify why I changed some of his abilities to skill shots: His W (A skill shot style dash) is short range and would ideally be a very fast dash, making hitting the target relatively simple. Additionally, it gives the AS buff regardless of whether or not it hits anything, instead giving an extra bonus for hitting a certain target. Overall, it gives more damage, more mobility, and doesn't do anything to take away from the ease of use (a brand new player can completely screw up the dash but they still get the AS buff (the important part), which seems pretty new player friendly). His R is a skill shot, but is also designed to be relatively easy to hit. I was thinking it would be a relatively quick dash, and the whole reason for having the AOE to grab the lowest % hp target is to make it less likely to fail. The only reason there is an irreducible penalty for missing is to make it so that players wouldn't use the ability for an escape. I don't know exactly how it would be balanced in terms of what makes it easiest to land, but optimally, if you shoot towards the enemy team, you SHOULD be able to hit at least somebody, if not necessarily the target you were aiming for at first.

About taking away the toggle on blood scent, I understand that there are situations where a more skilled player like yourself would rather turn it off, for the sake of a stronger gank or not giving away your position, but when I was thinking of how to update it, it seemed like making it passive and giving it an active was the best idea. However, if it isn't the best solution (and I trust your opinion on this), then I had a couple of other ideas that could work; 1st option, it is a toggle again, but every time you reactivate the toggle, the nearest enemy below 50% has the fear effect trigger, with an internal cool down on the fear activating. 2nd option, it has the same functionality as the one I described in the rework, but since it only reveals one target, it doesn't tell them unless he is within a certain range (like Rengar's ult). It could even have zero warning, since it isn't linked to an instant gap closer, and he is more stalking his target than hunting them down. The thing I was actually more concerned with is the fact that he could potentially have a 4700 range instant fear. This ability is probably the one I am least pleased with right now, since I feel I may have made it too complicated and/or unbalanced, and I would love it if you had any ideas for it.

I'd be happy to take any advice you have on this concept.

EDIT: I remember now why I had the ult have a cool down penalty, because originally I wanted it to have some sort of rewarding feeling for landing the skill shot even above "yes I locked somebody down and killed them". Originally I was thinking of having it have a flat cool down reduction for if the target dies, but have a longer cool down. This felt like it would make a Warwick never want to ult unless they could get the kill, which would dis-incentivize using it as an engage tool. I could simply make it so that hitting the enemy gives a flat reduction to the cool down, but the overall effect would be the same. To be honest, I don't remember why I decided to make he ult cool down penalty irreducible, and that doesn't make much sense at all. This version of his ult will be considerably stronger on its own though, so it justifies having a longer cool down even when you get the bonus. tl;dr: I will have the cool down penalty be affected by CDR normally, but it will have the same effect no matter how it is worded.

Lumus Avatar2 votes

I can definitely understand the uneasiness about the fear effect, and, as I said, part of me liked that people would no longer accidentally toggle off their chase ability when they need it. Fear is a powerful effect and giving it that kind of range means WW could activate it and turn a lane fight without ever entering combat. I like the theme of it, though.

Warwick is a scary monster and knowing he's after YOU is terrifying. The slow kind of feels like that nightmare effect where you can never outrun the monster chasing you in your dream - I really like that theme. There has to be a balanced way to implement it.

In its current form, Blood Scent instills player fear as you hear the howl and see the mark over your champion. But everyone in range who has low HP gets this, so you never know who WW is after. There's 'almost' more fear built into that than giving it a fear effect, heh.

I think for it to be fair, you have to know when you're being revealed. The game generally gives you some indicator when the entire enemy team can see you, other wise you have no counterplay. You didn't know the entire enemy team could see you and set up a gank. I'm looking at Rengar's ability and trying to see when (how far off) the exclamation point appears and whether the rest of Rengar's team shares his vision - but usually your team benefits from any and all line of sight you have - so if Rengar reveals a champ to himself, his whole team can see it. Obviously this has always been the case with WW. WW's has a bit longer range (4700 vs 4000 for Rengar) but, as you said, there was never a gap closer (other than WW's speed) to capitalize on it like Rengar. I'm not going to try to compare the two abilities, cuz that's generally not a good idea (there's too much kit interaction to straight compare 2 abilities), but I wanted to look at the reveal mechanic. In Snowdown, you got a pink snowflake over your head to indicate they had True Sight on you. WW's Blood scent does not reveal stealthed champs, just visible or those in brush. Personally, I'd leave the reveal on this alone, if you can.

WW's blood scent is limited by range and by the fact that they must be below 50% hp. Maybe, if you remove the toggle and just give it an active, as you've proposed, it could be something along the lines of further increasing movespeed toward only the nearest revealed champion with a moderate duration and a long cooldown. Or a fear effect with Sona-style targeting and Fiddlesticks-style range. That way, it is neither a skillshot, nor a point-and-click ability but it is short range and used for chasing or engaging on a target. I am still thinking of ideas for this, but I never hated your idea - just had concerns. Mostly that revealing only one champion in exchange for the active ability was a double power reduction as it gave the enemy insight to your location (since I still feel being informed that you're revealed is important).

As for the Ult, I feel much better about it since your explanation. I do still wonder about the case where you want to lock down a key target who is not at lowest %hp and he managed to avoid your R and you end up ulting someone you didn't want because they were at lower %hp than your intended target and also in the 200range AoE.

junglerboy162 votes

Ok, I like your idea for separating the fear range from the blood scent range. When I was originally thinking up how to spice up this ability, I had toyed with giving it a short range AOE fear instead, but it felt both too strong, and also like it didn't capture the feeling of a hunter singling out the weakest from the herd. It could instead work where all enemies below 50% within range are revealed, and get the same warning icon and sound, but only the nearest enemy champion revealed within half range can be feared? the howl would trigger for every champion like normal when revealed, but they would still hear the second howl for when he activates the fear (maybe the second activation could be global, that could throw you for a loop if you weren't paying attention). Really, the fear is supposed to be a part of his kit that lets him close that final distance to a fleeing enemy. Early game, this new functionality might be a slight nerf (the first couple ranks it is easy to tell roughly where he is because if you are below 50% and hear the sound, he can't be more than 1500/2300 or so range away), but late game, it will become a bit more powerful, since it will have a fear range of 2350, and it becomes much harder to know where he is.

I'm glad that I was able to clarify the reason for having his ult function like it does. In my mind, I thought that making it grab the lowest hp target would be the best, because it allows for counter play (either the tank body blocks the dash, or they tai poke to get auto targeted). Additionally, the reason I made it change to target the lowest % hp champion is that it would be the target likely to receive the most damage (because of the new execute damage), and as such, in most cases most likely to give the kill to Warwick's team. I do agree that it loses some of its potency of being a point and click lockdown, but that is part of what makes it toxic. I could change it so that it prioritizes lowest flat health, which would make it target either a carry, OR a low health tank, and that may be a bit better for its consistency.

Lumus Avatar1 votes

Now that implementation of blood scent sounds like it would feel good and play well.

I can really understand the choices you made for the ult now and I find myself agreeing more and more. I like the body-block counterplay and I like it prioritizing a whiff for the person who will be hurt the most. This way you can still lock down the person you want if you connect. If you don't connect but are close, you will likely get a kill. and the enemy tank can jump in to save the carry, or vice versa if the carry has full hp and the tank is low.

It's still a channel, so WW can still get dead during the ult. This is an inherent weakness that people often fail to appreciate - He's locking down an enemy, yes, but he's also locking himself down, making himself susceptible to hard and soft CC as well as the best CC: death.

The current ult apparently still deal full damage even if the target escapes with Quicksilver Sash. This is mostly a problem due to on-hit effects and items stacking on damage for the ult. How did you want to handle WW getting cc'd during the ult channel? It no longer deals on-hit effects and scales only off itself, the stats granted by items (mostly AP), and missing %hp.

So if he gets stunned, would the damage stop and the target be able to walk away before the 1.8 seconds? Would a snare have no effect since WW isn't required to move once he starts mauling? Would a silence end the channel/suppress? Can WW queue his Q without ending the channel by mistake? (for this I'm thinking of all the times I accidentally cancelled my Malzahar Ult by trying to queue another ability.)

Then I start thinking of mechanical interactions: someone gets ulted by Kayle during or Zilean, or activated Undying Rage right before getting hit. That's probably not for you to worry about though.

junglerboy162 votes

Yeah, these issues with his ult seem to be more issues with the coding of Suppression in the game. I don't think he is actually supposed to keep dealing damage if the enemy cleanses his ult. I personally would prefer making suppression the true "uncleanse-able" ability, and make the only thing that can interrupt it being knocked out of the channel or killed. They could even go so far as to say that now, since it isn't a targeted spell (It can miss on its own now), it shouldn't be a channel at all, making it uninterruptible (except by death). This would be as simple as saying he is immune to any channel canceling effects while channeling, and make the target he hit be untargetable for the duration. I think that having it be a skill shot and the amount of counter play of having body blocking and/or dodging both makes up for making it be uninterruptible, and is also more healthy and dynamic than "buy this item versus X champion". To address the idea of him being locked down as well, maybe he could heal for a percent of the targets max health each strike (not life steal anymore, since the damage won't be coded as auto attacks), and then heal for the additional amount if/when he kills the target.

Basically, with the new way it works, Warwick should be immune to CC effects for the duration of the channel, but still take damage from auto attacks and spells. The champion he hit would become truly suppressed and couldn't be helped by allies, and Warwick ought to be able to queue up his Q (only his Q though, since it isn't an immediate effect) before the channel ends.

EDIT: I actually really like the idea of making it only interruptible by killing Warwick, since if he is tank Warwick, it draws focus onto him (number one thing any tank wants), and it gives counter play to a bursty full AP Warwick because he will be squishy and easier to kill before he 100-0s the champion he hit.

Lumus Avatar1 votes

I have to think about this proposal. I like that the ult is more reliable and less strange coding-reliant, but I just don't know. I guess when I think of the word suppress in MOBA, I think of a character jumping on top of another character and holding them down. By virtue of this action, the aggressor character can also do nothing but focus on holding his target down. The idea of this is supposed to be that you sacrifice the combat effectiveness of one of your team members to remove the combat effectiveness of an enemy. It is meant to do one of two things: Give your team a chance to lock down and take on the rest of the enemy team without this one guy interfering, or all gang up on that one guy while he is stuck under you.

WW redefined suppress when he became able to not only stop an enemy from doing anything to help his team, but also gained the ability to stab them in the heart while laying on top of them. We're in a very delicate situation trying to define what a suppress is and isn't supposed to be.

Now then, back to my metaphor, a person bear hugging another to prevent his actions could be pried off that person, or killed. Stunning someone seems, to me, to be a perfectly legitimate way to stop them suppressing your friend. Likewise killing them, but we already agree on that.

I just see the problem of reintroducing the argument "Warwick's Ult is cancer" when you make it uninterruptable. Yeah, you could kill him to stop it happening. But he's likely built tanky, so it's not likely that you'll kill him within 1.5 seconds of him ulting someone on your team. I understand that there is already counterplay in being able to dodge or intercept the ult. But people will still cry foul if they can do NOTHING after getting hit. Remember, the primary weakness of channeling is that you can be interrupted. You can't move or do anything but channel, giving the enemy the opening to cc or kill you.

If Warwick is going to play the assassin and ult to kill people - and I'm not saying the other assassins are built right, most aren't - he and others are supposed to be punishable for jumping into the middle of the enemy team.

I still need to think about your proposal, but this is my initial reaction.

Meep Man2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lumus Avatar,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=eu7EzBEE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-05T19:12:41.949+0000)

I am a long-time lover of Warwick, and I am not 100% against your rework. It manages to identify the key features of Warwick's kit and keep them as close to the feeling of what we know as possible while still removing the overpowered portions.

There are two things I have issue with.

  1. Warwick, to me, is that Beginner's Jungler champ. He should be cheap, easy to learn, easy to use, and have reliable abilities. All of the recent champs have at least one skillshot ability (Rek'Sai, Kalista, Braum) and some have only skillshot abilities (Vel'Koz). There is nothing inherently wrong with skillshots. I actually like skillshot champs better than point-and-click champs because they feel more rewarding to play and to go against.

However, I feel like having no skillshots is part of WW's appeal. Reliable abilities means no one is criticizing a new player for missing a clutch skillshot. I'm not saying it has to change, I'm just saying that I think that fact is important to keep in mind. You've made two of his most important engage tools reliant on the player's ability to hit a skillshot (which is also dependent on the opponent's ability/inability to dodge it). And then, you punish the player for missing (the ult, at least) with an unreduceable cooldown increase. I am just looking at it from the point of view of someone who just tried to start a teamfight by targeting a key opponent and whiffed. Now my team (because we have such an awesome playerbase) is yelling at me AND I have to wait extra time to try again. I see that you gave a grace zone - the 200 range lockon for a whiff. That is a good idea and I'd be interested to see if it's enough. I can tell you right now that I hate Malphite's ult with a passion because it seems the slightest change in an enemy's position can ruin a stellar engage and turn it into a free death.

  1. His Bloodscent is no longer toggle-able. Why? Part of me says YAY! I can't tell you how many times I accidentally toggled it off when I needed it to chase when I was new. But as a more advanced player now, being able to turn it on and off so I can sneak in close before diving an enemy seems very valuable to me. Also, while your change about who is revealed is cool and reduces potential over-poweredness, it also gives the enemy team a better idea where WW is on the map since only the closest champ to him (at lower than 50% hp) has a mark on them. That said, I really like the active ability.

These are my main concerns, and this from someone who hates the idea of changing WW.

Well, new players need to learn to do skill shots. I can't speak on Warwick however.

Lumus Avatar2 votes

There's nothing wrong with skillshots. I just think there need to be some champs, like Ryze, in the game who have no skillshots just to maintain diversity so that there is a champ for every type of player.

Bharhash2 votes

The passsive seems -really- strong now. Healing 3% of his missing HP per strike? That's waaaaaaaaaay too strong. %HP heal might give him better scaling, but that means the early game version of it has to be ass-weak, otherwise he becomes unapproachable late game, especially since now the only universal source of heal reduction comes from Morellonomicon.

Lumus Avatar1 votes

also summoner 14 Ignite halves healing and life-steal

Bharhash1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lumus Avatar,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=eu7EzBEE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-01-05T20:14:27.082+0000)

also summoner 14 Ignite halves healing and life-steal

Perhaps, but it's a bit depressing how often you can find games in the Silver and Gold brackets where you can have a team without ignite and you have someone like Volibear or Warwick on the other side. There needs to be a non-summoner spell, non-AP item solution for the problem.

Lumus Avatar5 votes

#RIP Executioner's Calling

Lt Cuddles1 votes

Pls stahp, I'm gonna cry again...I really needed that item last game against a lifesteal-stacking olaf... ;~;

junglerboy161 votes

I think EC needed to go, it was a clunky item to build and had limited scaling. However, they should reimplement the grievous wounds passive onto a better designed item (as in, something that could be useful past being a component level item).

Toru Itai1 votes

{quoted}

The passsive seems -really- strong now. Healing 3% of his missing HP per strike? That's waaaaaaaaaay too strong. %HP heal might give him better scaling, but that means the early game version of it has to be ass-weak, otherwise he becomes unapproachable late game, especially since now the only universal source of heal reduction comes from Morellonomicon.

my hate for heal reduction is unending. >:|

Bharhash1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toru Itai,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=eu7EzBEE,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-01-05T20:16:11.368+0000)

my hate for heal reduction is unending. >:|

The alternative is figuring out how to separate the stacked healing from AAs, because it's that problem that makes these sorts of problems. You get an optimized AS/LS build and you suddenly become nigh-invulnerable unless the entire team has massive CC to lock you down long enough to kill you.

At the moment, there's really not a whole lot of options for heal reduction outside of counter picks. Ignite and Morellonomicon are the only two non-champ specific heal reductions that I can think of.

junglerboy162 votes

Yeah, it may be a little strong, but it takes time to ramp up, and should feel rewarding once you get to there. However the very nature of a % missing health heal like this is that it only becomes noticeable at low health values (a Warwick missing 100 health will heal 3 on hit, while a Warwick missing 2000 health will heal 60 on hit). It sounds like a lot, but if you do the actual math, he would need to be missing over 1500 hp for it to match his current passive, which also stacks twice as fast as my proposed changes (3 stacks for live where mine is 6), and heals for the full amount regardless of his health. I am actually in favor of increasing the heal per stack to 0.75%, max 4.5%, because that would really reward a full tank warwick (missing 3K hp, he would heal for 135 on-hit) while not so much for non tank warwick (he would be almost dead by the time his sustain matches what it is for live. As a full tank, he would deal minimal damage, but sustain tank for ages due to this passive, and that is the point.

DreamsGoneMad1 votes

These changes are very intriguing. However, based on the wiki I think Riot has their own ideas for WW already. Still, if they implemented this I could say without a doubt, I'd feel more satisfied playing as, with, or against a WW than I do now.

junglerboy161 votes

They did have some, but they axed them because their ideas didn't really address his problems. I have been developing this concept since back in may when they said they were putting his rework back on hold.

The Beastar1 votes

Meh I like it. All of it seems reasonable. Of course if these changes were put into effect then obviously buffs and or nerds would occur in the PvP. But I think that it all goes good. I play some AP ww and love all the heals. But tank ww seems to be the only WW that truly works and makes sense 99% of the time. That is why this AP scaling makes me happy, Cause WW to me seems like a better dig champ than a tank. I applaud these clever reworks!Warwick summoner 1 item 3089

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