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Let's Talk about the (M)CCC - Part 2

Sir ArmaMalum··9 votes·2,249 views

######Hey guys, I'm currently getting thrown around the country due to thanksgiving holiday shenanigans, so apologies in advance for my lower-than-normal participation, but of course this is something that needs to get ironed out sooner rather than later so I'm dropping it off now while I can.

Okay so I gotta make this one quick, internet's a temporary luxury with flight times and the like.

So far from what I can tell we have two primary audiences for a concept competition. We have:

Challenge Focused people who are more interested at tackling a challenge and effectively creating an intricate key to fit an intricate lock. This is primarily MCCC veterans who are, from what I can tell, more interested in overcoming a challenge moreso than just tossing out any-old concept.

Showcase Focused people who are more interested in seeing unique ideas and concepts with very little boundaries to the possibilities. These conceptors desire more concepts in general moreso than being funneled into a certain area. This is primarily CCC veterans.

As I said before I don't mean to paint either of these views in a conflicting light. They both have their pros and cons towards what they eventually produce and what approaches they support. I aim to do my best to accommodate both groups in a way they both not only feel is fair, but that they can be excited about and look forward to. That's where you guys come in! Tell me what you think of these ideas and of course do not hesitate to propose your own as well.

######Note: As I was the one who ran the CCC, for me that's the most 'flexible' portion of these ideas. So most of these invole little to no change to the MCCC as it stands. If any MCCC hosts feel these can be improved with changes to the MCCC's approach, feel free to deliberate here as well ^_^

#Method A - Weekly Showcase, Monthly Challenge

CCC == WCS (Weekly Concept Showcase) where all full (lore+kit) concepts submitted over that week are taken into account. The judges then pick their favorite concepts (instead of complicated scoring, vote number dependent on number of entries) and the ones that rise to the top are highlighted in a weekly post.

MCCC = MCCC (Monthly Community Concept Challenge, don't even have to change the acronym!) same as it is now. The WCS will have a shout-out to the MCCC every week, keeping the MCCC main post regularly visible without having to re-post as well as giving the MCCC some (imho) much needed advertisement.

|-------------------Pros------------------- | -----------------------Cons------------------------| |- |;Keeps the WCS light and refreshed|;Puts more logistical pressure on WCS| |;Keeps the MCCC as THE Competition, to avoid confusion|;High pace of WCS makes regular dual entry difficult| |;Even lower barrier of entry for WCS|;High pace of WCS means constant judges, not volunteers|

#Method B - Remember, remember, the month of....October

Pretty much the same way as it was in October, albeit with better communication on both ends. The CCC and MCCC will run alongside one another and compliment one another. This leaves cool interactions like shared themes or challenges like the CCC: "give feedback on X amount of MCCC posts" and vice versa for the MCCC.

The CCC will, to the best of my ability, be more engaging during the "inactive" periods. The CCC will be taking the role of a 'Showcase' more than a 'Contest' as the CCC does not boast any real prizes, whereas the MCCC will (as it is already) take the role of a competition to make a grab for the prizes.

|-------------------Pros------------------- | -----------------------Cons------------------------| |- |;Both groups have very little change|;Keeps the MCCC and CCC inevitably fighting for space at the beginning of the month*| |;Allows for cool inter-contest shenanigans |;maintains a bit of confusion for newcomers| |;|;|

######*This is assuming either will start on the first week, it's quite easy for the CCC to start, say, in the middle of the month as was mentioned by (damn airport wi-fi won't let me load comments, I believe it was Zanryu)

As you've probably noticed by now, neither of these options include merging the two. The reason being is that I've racked my brain over the last month and I cannot think of a way to house these two fundamentally different ideas together seamlessly. Simply put, the CCC is after any and all concepts for the sake of making a concept and the MCCC is after a constrained and funneled approach to a concept to challenge the entrants' creativity and ingenuity.

The reason that there was merger this month was for three reasons:

  1. With the Boards transition a lot of people were lost, confused, angry and generally needed some familiar ground to tread on. Keeping the whole thing under one post (hopefully) made the transition a bit easier for the vBulleting concept community.
  2. I'm in college. I had tests, exams, apartment leasing, course requests, curriculum decisions and quite a few projects this month. So I won't lie it was also a selfish decision.
  3. I did not know how the MCCC did things, so I wanted to let the MCCC go about unhindered so I could watch how it operated normally and without undue interference. Of course, as I understand one cannot see how the MCCC operates in general through just one month, but unfortunately that was as much time as I had to work with.

All this being said, I'm nothing close to infallible, so if you see an easy way to merge the two that I simply do not see please tell me, i'll be checking in as often as I can (which will not be too often for the week DX).

So please discuss this topic as much as you can guys, and we'll see where we are by the time I finally get back. Oh and also, I don't normally beg for upvotes but I'm limited to this time of day for the numerously mentioned travel issues. So for the sake of getting all pertinent eyes to see this I'll swallow my pride and say: please upvote!

21 Comments

Sir ArmaMalum3 votes

Good feedback all, thank you!

So what I'm hearing is a weekly contest (Method A) is preferable but with concerns of visibility (more from the resultant increase in posts) and overall logistical difficulty on the WCS end. Completely understandable.

First thought that comes to mind as a good response to those is a bimonthly contest starting on weeks 2 and 4 of a month. This avoids entries during the MCCC initial post week ( the week 4 shouldn't be too much of an issue as most entries come at the beginning of a week.) This is only a rough idea mind you but maybe alternating like this:

Week1: MCCC initial post, Judging for WCS #2 Week2: WCS #1 Week3: Judging for WCS#1 Week4: WCS #2

From what I understand/seen the MCCC also usually picks up during the third week so I think this works out well. That and it also gives me and whoever wants to help me out a bit more time to pick a winner.

FuzzyPhatPanda1 votes

I think this would be a great thing to start implementing for newer entrants or those wanting to start trying out champion concepts. I will also gladly help in any way from helping set up to judging the entries (:

The Red Goat3 votes

And I thought I would never have a reason to come back.

Okay, skipping over the talk Elphiram and Vbunnie are having with each other, I personally want to point out what I see that may be mistaken about this thread.

The potential mistake in question is that a challenge focused competition is different from a showcase one.

Speaking from my experiences on the original forums, the showcasing of a champion concept is a one way street. It is a challenge for the person to make the creation, but it is not a challenge per say for someone to read about that concept and leave their judgments on it. It can be challenging to word things in a way that do not seem rude or ignorant, but that is not the same type of challenge the concept creator faces.

However a contest for making concept champions focused on specific challenges is a 2 way street as the ones leaving judgments do need to take time and observe whether or not a concept matches the proper boundaries set by the competition. And having to make that call when it comes to lore can be incredibly difficult for someone who isn't used to doing it or simply cannot say whether a given lore fits for the challenge it is tied to.

Personally, disregarding anything about time given to come up with a concept, the best example of a good concept champion creation contest (according to myself as I say this) is the Tarot card MCCC done way back in I think June or July of last year.

The reason being is that while it gave "specific" challenges to work with, it was still very large and flexible in what challenges were available to choose from. In a way it was like having the extreme of several concept creation contests going at once that were simply all under the same banner.

And I guess that is what I would like to see happen with the MCCC/CCC (I've never tried the latter so I don't know exactly what they are focused on doing) is that the contest or contests that are available to new creators allow them the freedom to create pretty much anything. Maybe given a few parameters as without them you might as well make the champion, post them on the boards and hope it gets attention.

In a way that is contradictory to my beginning statement the real difference I see between a showcase and challenge is that a showcase would just be putting the concept up to be seen and the challenge is putting the concept up to be compared to other peoples concepts.

Whatever is decided for the ones developing the December contests I wish you the best of luck in having a good set up for people to join in on, and hope those who enter have fun joining the concept creation community.

Here's hoping next month is worth taking part in.

P.S. - I would point out that if the CCC can have concept champs that have already been made I would be against having the contests alternate as then whatever you make for say the MCCC could then immediately be used in the next CCC (unless a rule in it states otherwise) and that would be a little too unfair to me to new people joining the CCC.

P.P.S. - Yes, I'm really back.

Vbunnie1 votes

might i say i missed you mr or misses red goat. It is a long time no see for me i am afraid

BigBenClockTower2 votes

SirArmaMalum. You have a good idea I think, but I'm going to say it wouldn't work, for a number of reasons, but I'm going to tackle the ones that apply to me the most first, since they directly determine if I'm going to participate in these things regularly (and you guys seemed like my concepts so far, rushed as they are).

To start this off, my first problem with it. The CCC becoming a "Weekly" thing, and the MCCC being the "Main Show".

I'll set up my reasoning with some facts here. My best Champion Concepts (those that I deem Contest Worthy) take me around 3 months to make (start to finish). For the contests I've been in so far, I've cropped it down to 1 month's worth of work, which ultimately left rushed results (evident in the concepts I've presented so far; Scarlet, the Infernal Blade is the best example of this). However, if I hustle my weekends and free time away, I can provide a passable result, I can barely make the 1 month deadline and have it be a 100% complete concept.

So, to make the CCC into a "Weekly" contest would hurt designers who are like me, designers who need a lot of time to create things and ensure the results are at their best. But that is for the CCC, I could just enter the MCCC, right? Well, the MCCC is my second biggest problem, coming primarily from the format itself, and more specifically, the "Challenges" part of it.

First off, half of the challenge isn't even revealed for one or two weeks of the month, so that's already a big issue for my pacing in good design (creating a rushed result, which as stated before, leads to bad showings or unfinished work at deadline). The second issue is the challenges themselves.

I liked the CCC's idea of "no boundaries" on creation. It was loose, and let me put my ideas I spend 3 months on to perfect work where proper. I could keep the design of the Champion consistent from inception to release on the boards, thus creating a fully centralized and complete character. The "Challenges" punch holes in that philosophy behind my designs, and do so by shoehorning me into a specific thing, mechanic, or theme. If I had a concept all set to enter into the MCCC, but it turns out it meets none of the challenges, I'm now hard-pressed to come up with something completely new in only 2 weeks, or completely abandon entering the contest (which sucks hardcore).

Of the 3 months I spend on Champions on average, 1 of those is devoted to character design, which directly leads to the abilities that occupy month 2, so if the character itself doesn't meet the challenge, or the abilities from that design don't, I have to scrap all of it and shelve it for later, no matter how much was done. This means I start at square one, and have to cram 3 months of work into 1 month tops, with 2 of those months being squeezed into 2 weeks. The MCCC (especially this last one) just feels WAY too restrictive to be a good monthly format for designers like me, who give 110% if allowed.

If MCCC is the new "judged competition" format, it will be hurting a LOT of potential designers. I know I'm not the only one who has a lot of designs that have tons of love and effort poured in as time (and life) permits. Which is the third thing, minor as it is. Weekly challenges to create a full concept will be impossible to pull off if you do factor people having work and school into play, since there isn't a way to make a complete design in a week without it being a rushed, janky, imbalanced and/or bland mess.

Also, for similar reasons regarding timing and work amount, having both contests side by side would be a nightmarish mess for everyone involved. As far as the whole "showcase" thing, I dislike that focus entirely, since I think it destroys what a perfect and ideal contest could be in every way, shape, and form. Method B is arguably worse than Method A by work amount of philosophy alone in my opinion.

Just my cents on the matter, and why I had to vote "None of these work." Thanks for asking the community for ideas though, and sorry for the text wall, but I've had a lot of feelings on this matter since trying to participate in this past MCCC. Any replies are appreciated and read.

Vbunnie1 votes

here is a simple idea why not have them switch each month one mccc one ccc simple.....also keep the grading system for both with one major change to the mccc that being a better system of grading the current one does not work and certain champions dont get the light they disserve

Elphrihaim1 votes

here is a simple idea why not have them switch each month one mccc one ccc simple.....

This is a very bad idea and let me tell you why.

You can't make an MCCC concept before the challenges are released. You can with the CCC.

Since the CCC gets more entries due to the way it is set up (lower restrictions), it has to cut off entries early into the month (a week?). Since the MCCC requires you work on the concept over the course of the month, and actually fulfill the challenges, this would actually burden users.

On the MCCC month, you'd have to make your concept over 3 weeks.

On the CCC month, you'd have to have finished your concept a week in.

This means there are only 2 weeks to work on the CCC concept...

And then 3 weeks of break.

Alternatively, you could make your next CCC concept after you post that month's. But honestly, I feel alternating them alienates the people that want the challenges offered by the MCCC-- and also the people that like the showcase aspect of the CCC-- what if it's not that month when they want to post their concept because they're done?!

also keep the grading system for both with one major change to the mccc that being a better system of grading the current one does not work and certain champions dont get the light they disserve

The current system of grading for the MCCC comes from the fact that the MCCC is challenge-based and being creative with restrictions.

It works damn well, and has for two years or so, with minimal adjustment.

[I would normally write something else here but I am strapped for time since I gotta finish Eilia. >_<]

Vbunnie1 votes

ok so why cant you have an mccc one month and the next month have a ccc? it gives people more time to do both mccc and ccc by releasing the next months challenges one month ahead of time the mccc challenges would be released at the end of the ccc and the ccc requirements would be released at the end of the mccc. pretty simple solves all problems and does nothing to the whole timing thing

Elphrihaim1 votes

ok so why cant you have an mccc one month and the next month have a ccc? it gives people more time to do both mccc and ccc by releasing the next months challenges one month ahead of time the mccc challenges would be released at the end of the ccc and the ccc requirements would be released at the end of the mccc.

Because part of the point of the MCCC is to have the challenges also be burdened with a time limit. So that it's a challenge. Giving the challenges early wouldn't make sense, because you are then no longer hosting for a given month. You'd be hosting from 'whenever the previous contest ends' to 'whenever this contest ends'.

Additionally, this isn't possible logistically. The two parties are completely separate and aren't going to be merging on that level, if at all-- and outside of that, how does one actually put the challenges up? Posting it?

The old thread has become buried on all but Recent views. So you'd probably post it in a new thread, then--

Wait, why is the thread for December up when it's still November? That doesn't make any sense. Both contests have a 'monthly' component at the moment, which is why I bring that up.

pretty simple solves all problems and does nothing to the whole timing thing

Alternating the two contests on a monthly basis is simple, I cannot deny that.

It does, too, not affect the timing of each contest while it is running.

But your proposal actually greatly alters the MCCC, so I disagree. This adjustment completely removes one of the aspects of the MCCC--a time-crunch. Your proposal, if I may rephrase it and add in some specificity to make it easier to understand:

  • Odd months are CCC months, even months are MCCC months.
  • At the end of CCC (judging? Or submission period?) the challenges for the MCCC are released.
  • At the end of the MCCC (judging? Or submission period?) the CCC's challenges become known.

The MCCC's current schedule is to allow 3 weeks to work on a concept that fits within some rules. The judging lasts a week. The CCC allows only a week, but it also allows you to submit something that you have thought up before. Because of this the challenges tend to be much less demanding than the MCCC challenges, so it is not difficult and does not really require bending of one's arm to fulfill them, relative to the MCCC's requirements.

So your proposal still has the 'dead time' between the posting of challenges and the completion of judgment, which isn't a new problem; but also creates exclusion. There are some people that want monthly CCCs and some that want to keep monthly MCCCs. Alternating the two causes one crowd-- whichever one does not enjoy that contest-- to be excluded. I have already seen people withdraw from an MCCC because they don't enjoy that month's challenges and can't make a concept for it, but deeply desire such a requirement-heavy contest because they have difficulty making a concept up to snuff otherwise.

I maintain: We cannot simply alternate. It just doesn't work. People will get alienated and feel left out, people will also not want to participate because they got attached to a different format. Additionally, changing it in this way actually changes how one of the contests works fundamentally-- and not in the positive direction.

Vbunnie1 votes

a wise man once said you cannot please all of the people all of the time but you can please some of the people some of the time. My proposal adds a lot. It does not take away from the requirements of the mccc. They can still be very much strict. There already was a group up of the mccc and ccc which occured this month. My proposal does not allianate anyone it gives people more time to review the mccc or ccc requirements which allows for more time to consider joining and how they will tackle the problems/and/or proposals. It is quite simple. You also forget the MACFA competition which was really cool and appeals to yet another group of people. There will always be people who will not enter each month for whatever reason. Also in reguard to the time crunch removal, the timing is still pretty much the same all you do is get an extra week or two to look over the challenges and decide on a strategy. In the overall scheme of things it will not be that much of a difference. You cannot force people to enter and each month so there will always be at least one person who does not enter each month. In reguards to those who do choose to not enter an mccc or ccc I would have my own challenge which will feature a happy medium between both challenges that will heir each month. My challenge will provide for a great deal of variety and creativity while providing some minor guidelines. I was thinking about releasing this idea soon. The only thing I had issues with was coming up with a name for the challenge. The first one is already written up and features two choices one that is an element and one that is a weapon. The idea is that the element choice makes abilities have to follow a certain criteria and the weapon choice makes the champion have to follow a certain amount of criteria. For example let us say the element is wind, the champion must have at least one health or spell shield ability and must have a knockup or knockback ability the champion must also have a fairly high attackspeed. the weapon might be something like say a hammer in which the champion must be melee and must be either a fighter or a tank. this challenge would allow you to use a previously made champion but they must fulfill the criteria and must have a lore that supports this choice. The best made champion who follows these criteria and who is the most believable(ties into lore and makes since both numbers and idea wise) wins 10 dollars in free rp and gets a shoutout the next month. The scoring system would be similar to that established by the mccc. There will also be an option that will allow you to pick either two elements two weapons or an extra challenging weapon or element, a maximum of two bonus points will be given to champions who successfully fulfill this extra option. There will not be any bonus points given for fulfillying two or more optional challenges. Also each player will have two weeks to enter. Upon conclusion of the second week all entrents will be finalized the third week would be utilized to allow players to review eachother and finalize their choices and build upon their champion. Entrants would also be invited to review other players .5 points will be awarded per review for a maximum of 2 bonus points. Upon conclusion of the third week Judges will judge fairly and accurately the submissions. Each Judge will judge all of the entrants and arrive upon a score the entrant with the highest score overall will win. So yeah about that? any ideas on a name? Also everyone is happy that way. Those people who feel the mccc is too challenging or the ccc is too open would have the option to enter my challenge that month. I was thinking about calling it bunnie's monthly challenge but I am not sure. Ideas are greatly appreciated.

Elphrihaim1 votes

Almost anybody will tell you that a wall of text with no formatting like this is incredibly difficult to read and digest. But OK, let's just go through this.

a wise man once said you cannot please all of the people all of the time but you can please some of the people some of the time.

Yes, and the best way to please them is to attempt more often. By alternating, you give yourself fewer chances to please.

My proposal adds a lot. It does not take away from the requirements of the mccc.

It does. You said-- "mccc and ccc by releasing the next months challenges one month ahead of time the mccc challenges would be released at the end of the ccc"-- which says that the MCCC would be posted before the first of the month, since "the next months challenges [would be released] one month ahead of time".

Which means that people have more time to work on their MCCC entry. Which changes how the MCCC works. It makes it easier to fulfill the requirements even if they haven't been changed.

They can still be very much strict. There already was a group up of the mccc and ccc which occured this month. My proposal does not allienate anyone it gives people more time to review the mccc or ccc requirements which allows for more time to consider joining and how they will tackle the problems/and/or proposals.

Except adding time to consider your concept for the MCCC actually changes the dynamics of the contest.

It is quite simple. You also forget the MACFA competition which was really cool and appeals to yet another group of people. Also there will always be people who will not enter each month for whatever reason. You cannot force people to enter and each month

Of course there's no way to get every group with only two contests. But logistically, the fewer contests there are the better. And no, you can't force people to enter each month, and that's going to eventually become an argument in favor of doing more contests. If you host an MCCC every other month, but the person in question can't think up something with the CCC (say, it doesn't offer enough things for them to launch off of), they're now waiting two months to see if they can try instead of just one.

I would have my own challenge which will feature a happy medium between both challenges, I also have been considering creating another competition myself that would settle somewhere in between a mccc style and a ccc style requirments. It will provide for a great deal of variety and creativity while providing some minor guidelines. I was thinking about releasing this idea soon. The only thing I had issues with was coming up with a name for the challenge.

So yeah about that? any ideas on a name? Also everyone is happy that way.

Sounds like an interesting MCCC contest.

Those people who feel the mccc is too challenging or the ccc is too open would have the option to enter my challenge that month. I was thinking about calling it bunnie's monthly challenge but I am not sure. Ideas are greatly appreciated.

I think that the scope of the challenge is all-too-close to the MCCC's idea that it should go in as a month. It'd be an interesting month, but most MCCCs also have a lore attribute (this is why we end up getting the novels by courtesy of Core and Othello).

Will respond to Sir Arma later, wanted to post this since I already got delayed in posting it three or four times.

Vbunnie1 votes

ok here is the thing. you obviously wanted to change at least one aspect of the contests or you would not have brought this up as a thread. Who says changing one dynamic of the contest is a bad thing if it would allow for more people to join in. It would also give judges more time to look over things which isnt always a bad thing. Yes one dynamic the time crunch would change but who said that is bad? one week will not change that much.

In reguards to core. Core has amazing concepts and amazing lores I have yet to see something by othello. I am not saying the lores are bad but they are very time consuming for a judge. I should know I judged one and it was very confusing probably because he left out a lot of the good stuff due to space requirements and not enough space to post. point is judges also have a time restraint and an extreme one at that. I did it once or twice before. Not everyone agreed with me because I saw things differently from others and say things straightforward. I also have made mistakes before but only due to misreading or misunderstanding of concepts which can happen if everyone had little time to prepare. Point is extra time is good for everyone even the ones who choose to judge.

Elphrihaim1 votes

ok here is the thing. you obviously wanted to change at least one aspect of the contests or you would not have brought this up as a thread.

Actually I personally don't want either contest to change how the actual contest entry and creation works. The CCC has a very nice niche as does the MCCC, and I think that both can coexist very nicely-- they just need to not be competing as much for visibility (currently they would have to compete for the same space-- as well as the MCCC/CCC entries making it harder to find the actual contest), and there are tons of ways to do that without changing the dynamics of the contest for the entrants.

So "yes", I want to change some parts of the contests. No, I don't want to want to change anything besides the start time of the contests. And no-- I didn't make this a thread. I was responding to you.

Who says changing one dynamic of the contest is a bad thing

In the context, I say that it is, because that restricted time is part of what really makes the MCCC an actual challenge. 3 weeks is not a lot of time to get out a full champion concept, and you propose increasing the time by 33%. A 1/3rd increase in the amount of time one can use makes anything easier and reduces the challenge.

I think that the challenge is a good thing. It forces people to go more quickly, and that pace makes it easier for one to learn.

if it would allow for more people to join in.

I think that more people joining the contest is a good thing.

It would also give judges more time to look over things which isnt always a bad thing. Yes one dynamic the time crunch would change but who said that is bad? one week will not change that much.

1 week is not a big deal, but it is a big deal when the initial time is 3 weeks. A 33% increase in time is a large difference.

And it doesn't give the judges any extra time to judge, if the due date is the same.

And if the due date also shifts forward a week, see "Why is December up when it's still November?"

In reguards to core. Core has amazing concepts and amazing lores I have yet to see something by othello. I am not saying the lores are bad but they are very time consuming for a judge. I should know I judged one and it was very confusing probably because he left out a lot of the good stuff due to space requirements and not enough space to post.

That depends on who it was you actually judged. If it was Hastur, for example, then no, you should have been confused.

Lore is time consuming to judge-- just as much as a kit should be. In fact, I'd actually argue that it takes a lot less time to judge a lore than a kit-- REGARDLESS of the brevity of the kit and length of the lore.

What takes more time is _reading_ that lore.

point is judges also have a time restraint and an extreme one at that. I did it once or twice before.

I have too-- I never had trouble with the time restraints because I assumed that this would be incredibly time-consuming so I budgeted myself a lot of time to do it during... but then new things sprawled up on my calendar that I couldn't deal with fast enough. Things happen.

Not everyone agreed with me because I saw things differently from others and say things straightforward.

imo I don't think that's why, I think it's because of that time pressure that you weren't prepared for (and let's be honest-- who IS prepared for it?) that you had to rush through things and didn't get to fully understand them.

I also have made mistakes before but only due to misreading or misunderstanding of concepts which can happen if everyone had little time to prepare. Point is extra time is good for everyone even the ones who choose to judge.

As somebody that judged as well; and as somebody that gave unfair docking due to how I felt on a given day (that was caught by the contestants because I didn't check over my work later); believe me when I say that I understand.

But your proposal doesn't actually change the judgment timing-- if that is part of your proposal then you should make that explicit.

Vbunnie1 votes

hey elph can you please help me out I want you to read over something for me. and if you would be willing to help me out with this maybe helping judge when i release it. But i need it read over first. I dont want everyone to know, but you seem to know what you are talking about. I would like to send it via email just add me on client so I can get your email adress. I dont want this going out.

Elphrihaim1 votes

hey elph can you please help me out I want you to read over something for me. and if you would be willing to help me out with this maybe helping judge when i release it. But i need it read over first. I dont want everyone to know, but you seem to know what you are talking about. I would like to send it via email just add me on client so I can get your email adress. I dont want this going out.

Sure

My emails are [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected]. I'm much more likely to respond if you send it to the first three though-- e.g. I haven't checked the last two in a few months.

Vbunnie1 votes

Sent to the first email.

FuzzyPhatPanda1 votes

I think Method A would actually work out the best imo. This is because for the WCS you can post already created champion concepts, or post them as you finish them. And it also means that if you're currently working on an MCCC post and don't have any CCC champs ready to post, you can miss out that week and finish up to post in the next week's WCS. The weekly WCS along with the monthly MCCC would allow people to focus their attention to concepts completing challenges as well as posting original concepts they've thought of along the way. But again, that's just my opinion. The constant advertisement of the MCCC though would be a great thing and should definitely get more attention, but the MCCC could still offer advertisement for the WCS by just saying something along the lines of "If you have any concepts sitting around, go and post them in the WCS and who knows? Maybe you'll be one of the showcase winners!" I don't know, but overall Method A implementing the WCS along with the MCCC seems like the best overall way to begin taking these challenges. I think we'd see a lot more applicants overall, with new people getting to put up a new concept each week with the WCS as well as getting to focus on creating a specific champion for the MCCC. But once again, that's just me.

Fury and Emperor1 votes

Imo, the more important consideration is which option degrades gracefully when judges and organisers inevitably quit.

Option A could degrade when necessary by shuttering the WCS and putting all remaining resources into the MCCC; option B would skip every other month, which is much worse.

So I'd go with A with a slight modification: exclude MCCC submissions from the WCS. Otherwise the first WCS of a month would be a mirror of the MCCC, which isn't all that useful.

Zanryu1 votes

Glad to see that CCC will return. I get the feeling that the MCCC is more distant to the people than the soon WCS. Although I would probably set an interval of two weeks rather than one to give judges and creators more time. But this is mostly dependent on everyones time.

Elphrihaim1 votes

This is definitely critical-- entries for one contest can't be used for the other. I think the only time this happened was Ozu, the Spectral Knight. Who was awesome on all accounts.

(However, and I do feel it necessary to write, the MCCC entrants usually don't have completed concepts in the first week, so it would be the third week of a month that has the mirroring.)

Personally, I think you should go for the following:

Week 1: MCCC1 posted. WCS1-1 judges assigned. Week 2: WCS1-1 posted. WCS1-2 judges assigned. Week 3: WCS1-1 finished, WCS1-2 posted. WCS1-3 judges assigned. Week 4: WCS1-2 finished, WCS1-3 posted. Week 1, Month 2: WCS1-3 finished, MCCC2 posted. WCS2-1 judges assigned.

This makes the MCCC have fewer threads to compete with for visibility while also allowing the WCS to go through a good number of entries (You could cap it at a lower number since it's 3 times a month instead of only once, say 30).

While I'm not anywhere near the investment that I should have for the contests (school, which I'm already almost late for so bye)...

Elphrihaim1 votes

While I'm not anywhere near the investment that I should have for the contests (school, which I'm already almost late for so bye)...

... the critical thing that has to be noticed with the MCCC is that it serves to be challenges for the competitors-- so there should be something to contrast with that facet. The CCC isn't something I can be certain of, but I believe that, like Sir Arma said, it is more about showing than accomplishing? That's not quite the way I want to say that but it's 7:30 AM so I'm not fully here yet.

I believe that, instead of going for "all full (lore+kit) concepts submitted over that week" a better idea would be to go for some requirement (e.g. "Must have lore, kit, and X"-- the X could change between different things, like "gameplay notes" and "designer's notes", for example) to allow pruning of entries. This would reduce the strain on the judges, in place of having a submission limit (which does somewhat feel arbitrary). Though, to be honest, these all need to have one key note-- accessibility. That's the point of the WCS/CCC, right? To be something that's done lightly, it is not something very serious...

Though again, that is merely my impression. It's a celebratory event, it isn't as much about honing one's skills.

*sigh* It's no good to just say "XYZ" won in my opinion, but why that person won. This would be something that the WCS would likely lose in being converted to a rubric-less contest; and in my opinion it would reduce the amount of learning offered from the competition, which is something I feel very critical to a competition of this nature.

...I really need to find Moby so I can beat the logic behind his scoring out of him.

edit: I just realized. This has 7 upvotes and I'm pretty sure 5 of those are me (hurray for having an account on multiple servers because NA always crashes?).... the visibility is too low :(

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