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Pantheon is... boring?

Potatolancer·12/22/2014, 11:57:19 AM·4 votes·1,514 views
Pantheon

Pantheon and the Quest for Glory Better Mechanics

When I see Pantheon I see a fearless warrior honed to be a killing machine. One who drives back as a vanguard the enemies forces. Who stares death in the eye and says, "not without they're head on my spear and their allies morality vanquished!".

Pantheon is the epitome of masculinity and badassery- yet... Why do I feel like I'm playing a stale champion whose only outstanding quality is his potential?

The Problem? It's Not Like Riot Forgot About Him

I noticed in the patch that Riot has not given up on Pantheon, so much so that they nerfed his attack speed to have a difference of -0.004 and even going so far as to change his attack frame animations. However, I don't think the problem lies in balance.

When I see the new champions coming out I see flashy, fun, and unique powers suited to those champions. Pantheon? He has one flashy, not so fun, unique power, that being the man drop.

The Potential/The Reality

I suggest heading straight to the comments from here

  • Aegis Protection ( passive):** "After attacking or casting spells 4 times, Pantheon will block the next incoming basic attack or turret attack."

Am I the only person who feels like I should see Pantheon raise his shield after this is activated (not only while running)? I mean it's not like Braum gets a little aura with 4 little magical doors flying around his body. Nonono- he raises his shield and blocks things in front of it only. This makes Pantheons shield feel like a prop.

  • Spear Shot ( Q):** "Pantheon hurls his spear at an opponent, dealing damage."

I want to feel like I'm actually throwing the spear, I want to slingshot it with my mouse, the further back I draw it the further it'll go (at the cost of damage of course). I want to see the spear arc into the ground and grab it to try again for the killing blow. My enemy should be hiding behind enemy lines until I see an opening and take the chance to strike. And when I do hit them I want to serrate them as I take it out face-to-face (Kalista anyone?). But even the name suggests one thing:

pewpew..

  • Aegis of Zeonia ( W):** "Pantheon leaps at an enemy and bashes the enemy with his shield, stunning them. After finishing the attack, Pantheon readies himself to block the next attack."

Why do I feel like I'm casting a Nidalee pounce? I want Mantheon to throw his weight at the enemy, shield drawn back in midair, and watch Pantheon smash his shield into the ground. Key word watch. Because it's hard to see all of this when he does it in the split of a second. Plus I want to direct it. I don't want to just select a champion because what fun is that? It has the same intrinsic value as Spear Shot. I should feel rewarded for my action.

Hell it doesn't even have to be a jump-to-bash, it could be a shotgun power. Where Pantheon drives forward his shield using his body weight (moving him forward) slightly knocking back his enemy or stunning them.

  • Heartseeker Strike ( E):** "Pantheon focuses and unleashes 3 swift strikes to the area in front of him, dealing double damage to champions. Pantheon also becomes more aware of his enemy's vital spots, allowing him to always crit enemies below 15% Health."

Wow! So you mean I get to quickly direct three shots in front of Pantheon? Like three of Yasuo's Q's but in a short window of time? Gosh that soun- I'm sorry what was that? You mean I just cast a basic cone attack and watch Pantheon do a flurry of what appears to be 50 strikes in 3 seconds?

pewpew right? siiiigh

  • Grand Skyfall ( R):** "Pantheon composes himself then leaps into the air to a target, striking all enemy units in an area. Enemies closer to the impact point take more damage."

Sweet! Glorious! I can fling myself to battle and help my- oh, hold on.... wait for it... still casting... we must be charging the AP I guess... Allies! Pantheon should quickly crouch and then be off. But it would be cool if, you know, I could see him in air, rather than see him disappear into space. Unless his descrip mentions landing on the moon then jumping back and I just don't know it? This is a good reason for his W to be a shotgun bash rather than a jump. That way they don't look the same.

  • Mana ( Source):** Pantheon uses magic to cast his spear, to cast his Nidalee pounce jump-to-shield-bash, to cast his spear thrusting, to cast his Artillery jump.

Question here, why does the warrior with physical prowess, a spear, a shield, and absolutely zero magic require mana? Does he really need magic to aid him in combat? That wouldn't, you know, hurt his pride at all? Why do his powers even have AP? Just to make Trinity that much more viable?

So What Now?

Pantheon is still one of my favorite champions, but at this moment, it's because of his aesthetics rather than his play style. I'm asking for quite a bit, in fact I'm asking for his whole kit to be reworked, but this champion is outdated and he's starting to show it, especially in light of the new champions coming out.

Pantheon shouldn't feel like he wanted to be a warrior but then gave up and asked the gods to aid his arm when he throws his spear. Pantheon should be a champion whose glory is of his own right.

P.S. The suggested changes are of my own opinion and are just that: suggestions. Feel free to leave your own opinions or suggestions in the comments below.

I deleted the old board as I posted it in the wrong thread.

19 Comments

disregardable12/22/2014, 12:04:08 PM2 votes

Panth is fine as he is.

BeatzBoyFTW12/22/2014, 2:00:52 PM1 votes

Because having a 3 second cast-time on each of his moves just to make it look beautiful, Is considered to be one big nerf.

Gholem12/22/2014, 3:51:37 PM1 votes

Pantheon is very well-rounded jungler/top laner...I saw Pantheon carrying his team quite easily as a jungler

and often turning around fights and even the entire game as jungler.

ModThe Djinn12/22/2014, 6:09:13 PM1 votes

Am I the only person who feels like I should see Pantheon raise his shield after this is activated (not only while running)? I mean it's not like Braum gets a little aura with 4 little magical doors flying around his body. Nonono- he raises his shield and blocks things in front of it only. This makes Pantheons shield feel like a prop.

The issue is that Braum blocks projectiles along a single line he's facing, making such a graphic easy. Pantheon blocks an attack from any direction, and it would look really weird to see him block a tower shot hitting his back by raising his shield. It would also be less visually clear if seen from the back: Braum's shield is enormous and glowing, while Pantheon's is not. The floating icons let people viewing Pantheon from any angle see his passive is up. It's a little sacrifice of logic for a large gain in in-game readability.

I want to feel like I'm actually throwing the spear, I want to slingshot it with my mouse, the further back I draw it the further it'll go (at the cost of damage of course). I want to see the spear arc into the ground and grab it to try again for the killing blow. My enemy should be hiding behind enemy lines until I see an opening and take the chance to strike. And when I do hit them I want to serrate them as I take it out face-to-face (Kalista anyone?). But even the name suggests one thing:

League doesn't really support a mouse-slingshot sort of mechanic, and that would make Pantheon's gameplay incredibly difficult. But it sounds like you want a Nidalee+Olaf+Kallista mechanic on Pantheon...fair enough. He's already pretty decently strong though...what would you be willing to sacrifice, and how would you want the ability to work, mechanically?

Why do I feel like I'm casting a Nidalee pounce? I want Mantheon to throw his weight at the enemy, shield drawn back in midair, and watch Pantheon smash his shield into the ground. Key word watch. Because it's hard to see all of this when he does it in the split of a second. Plus I want to direct it. I don't want to just select a champion because what fun is that? It has the same intrinsic value as Spear Shot. I should feel rewarded for my action.

Hell it doesn't even have to be a jump-to-bash, it could be a shotgun power. Where Pantheon drives forward his shield using his body weight (moving him forward) slightly knocking back his enemy or stunning them.

So simply an animation change. Or a potential change to an AoE ability. The first is easy, the second slightly harder. If such a change WOULD go through, however, it's a net buff to Pantheon, because he now has an escape ability. Again...what are you prepared to sacrifice for the ability to now escape over walls if necessary? The change itself is pretty simple: Aegis of Zeonia now becomes a targeted AoE ability that launches Pantheon to a location within range, dealing minor physical damage in a moderate AoE, and dealing the current damage and applying a stun within a very small AoE in the center of the effect.

Wow! So you mean I get to quickly direct three shots in front of Pantheon? Like three of Yasuo's Q's but in a short window of time? Gosh that soun- I'm sorry what was that? You mean I just cast a basic cone attack and watch Pantheon do a flurry of what appears to be 50 strikes in 3 seconds?

...Pantheon is an assassin/bruiser. His abilities need to go off quickly, or he can't actually get all the hits off within the stun duration of Aegis of Zeonia. Working in intended.

Or is your goal to change him from an Assassin/Bruiser to something else entirely? That's fine then, but we'll probably need to completely change at least his E in that situation. Talk to us: what is your ideal version of Pantheon? This is the Champion Concept board: give us a concept, not just some complaints. What would your "ideal" Pantheon end up being?

Sweet! Glorious! I can fling myself to battle and help my- oh, hold on.... wait for it... still casting... we must be charging the AP I guess... Allies! Pantheon should quickly crouch and then be off. But it would be cool if, you know, I could see him in air, rather than see him disappear into space. Unless his descrip mentions landing on the moon then jumping back and I just don't know it? This is a good reason for his W to be a shotgun bash rather than a jump. That way they don't look the same.

Instant cast half-global jumps would be hugely OP. The cast time is to allow people to interrupt it, and to allow Pantheon to not simply disappear from anywhere instantly, making him one of the biggest split-push threats in the game.

As for why he vanishes off the map? It's because he's invulnerable between the jump and the landing, and because League doesn't have a Z-axis high enough to have him actually jump. The map has a visual upper limit.

Question here, why does the warrior with physical prowess, a spear, a shield, and absolutely zero magic require mana? Does he really need magic to aid him in combat? That wouldn't, you know, hurt his pride at all? Why do his powers even have AP? Just to make Trinity that much more viable?

Why do Darius/Xin/J4/any number of mana users use mana? As an ability gating mechanism. A Pantheon with free Spear Shots every time it's off cooldown would be horribly OP to face in lane. Thus, mana is used as a gating mechanism. Removing mana would require reworking his entire kit, probably.

As for why some of his abilities have AP ratios? Makes Trinity a little more useful, yes...which is fine. But he's also a slightly old design: a lot of power was baked into his base values, which is why he can build as a Bruiser so easily. A more assassin-like rework might replace that AP with AD scaling, but Panth would probably see his entire scaling reworked in favor of AD builds over Bruiser builds if that was the case.

aaronconlin12/23/2014, 7:25:36 AM1 votes

He is a little bit boring but at the same time he's a pretty fun champion to play and he's one of my favorites. A lot of your suggestions seem like they would be fixed with a Visual Update.

Q - It's a really simply ability, click and throw a spear. Making this into a skillshot with maybe a slightly longer range could add some "skill" but it would also make it essentially the same as Nidalee and Kalista.

W - He leaps and slams his shield, another pretty simply ability. A VU would make the animation smoother. Or it could be the "shotgun" ability like you said, where he rams the enemy instead of leaps, but personally I think leaping is cooler.

E - Again, a VU would fix this. I think making it a 3 cast ability would be a nerf, a lot of the time you wouldn't be able to cast it 3 times before it goes on cooldown. The ability is linked to critical hits, so maybe just make the animation do three distinct jabs with the spear in vital body parts instead of a flurry.

R - This is what makes Pantheon, Pantheon. His ult is effective when it's landed, but I feel like it's too easy for enemies to simply walk out of the AoE and take no damage, wasting the ability. I'm not really sure how to fix this, but that's a balancing problem not an aesthetics problem (kinda). Maybe a shorter casting time, Pantheon leaps into the air and then drops, slamming into the ground and the damage happens in a shockwave (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXtHRPAvvDc) - 10 seconds in.