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Lamb, and Wolf... The Kindred. [rework concept]

Terozu··1 votes·546 views

Passive: Mark of the Kindred -Scaling Removed. -Periodic sight of marks.

The Kindred are now given True Sight of their mark for 3 seconds every 20/15/10 seconds. This cooldown is tripled for marks on enemy Champions, and only lasts half as long.

Q: Lamb Form - Dance of Arrows -Greatly changed.

Lamb becomes intargetable for half a second and dashes towards the cursor, during this time she marks the 5 nearest targets prioritizing champions, at the end of her dance all marked targets suffer damage equal to 35% of her auto attack damage. This ability can be used 4 times before going on cool down.

Q: Wolf Form - Savage Dance -new

Wolf dashes forwards displacing all targets and marking them for an extended period. Attacking a target who is marked causes Wolf to dash through the target, dealing bonus damage based on missing health. Wolf's range againsts marked targets is increased by 200%. Wolf cannot dash through walls.

W: Pas De Deux -replaced.

The Kindred swap places. Which ever part is active gains extra passive effects. Lamb Form Passives: Lamb gains ranged attacks, on the first 4 marks the kindred collect she gains 75 range, subsequent sets of 3 marks gain an extra 25 range. Lamb deals 25% bonus damage to targets above 50% health. Wolf Form Passives: Wolf gains melee attacks, for every mark the Kindred collect Wolf does 1.25% of the targets current health on hit. This bonus is halved against targets below 25% health, and changed to percent of missing health. Wolf gains 25% damage to targets below 50% health.

E: Lamb Form - Accepting Death -Greatly Changed

Every 10th auto attack, Lamb's next auto will charm the target for 1 second. This charm is doubled against monsters, and can affect Dragon.

E: Wolf Form - Mounting Dread

Every 5th auto attack Wolf sinks his teeth into an enemy, latching on to them and becoming immune to cc for 2 seconds. This auto deals an additional 5% of the targets missing health, as well as 5% of their current health. Wolf continues to auto the target while latched.

R: Lamb Form - Lambs Declaration -GREATLY changed. -The Kindred's mark can still be damaged.

Lamb lays down a wide area of effect. Within this zone no targets can fall below 10% health, with the exception of The Kindred's marked enemies. Targets who fall to the 10% threshold are unable to be healed for the duration of the ult

R: Wolf Form - Wolf's Declaration -New.

Wolf lays down a wide area of effect. Wolf strikes all enemy units for 1% of their maximum health as true damage each second for 5 seconds. Then dealing 20% of their missing health. This damage is doubled to The Kindred's mark. All healing and regeneration is stopped within this feild.

What do youys think?

11 Comments

Lightwellian2 votes

Periodic sight sounds fairly decent on paper, but it'd quickly just turn into an overpowered way to track the enemy Jungler. Just imagine how people would respond if all of their ganks were forecast by a passive. Too oppressive.

Lamb's Q sounds fairly decent, but becoming untargetable is too much. Same with getting four successive uses.

Wolf's Q sounds decent, but it's a bit too strong in a straight fight. Try trading the initial displacement for the ability to chase through walls.

Regarding W, Kindred is not meant to be a two-form champion. Kindred is supposed to be a Marksman Jungler who uses marks to scale, the parts, Lamb and Wolf, are supposed to hunt together. These things are at the center of its identity. Two-form design goes against what this champion stands for.

Both E passives are lackluster. An all-but-random charm on every tenth strike is difficult to use and requires little skill in regards to timing, since you can't time it without refraining from doing your job. Having Wolf latch onto a target means he'll easily be displaced. He has to be able to control where they go, or he's just putting himself in danger by allowing himself to AA.

Lamb's R is Broken and Wolf's R doesn't synergize with his kit.

With Lamb's only other ability being a spammable way to apply marks, this is effectively just team invincibility. With Wolf's other moves being based around pursuit and hunting, having him produce a slow-to-activate death zone kind of ditches the point.

Just my opinion of it.

Terozu1 votes

You say a spammable way to apply marks? What do you mean?

I think they should switch because Lamb is acceptance, so she wins out in a straight fight due to her Q and Ult, (which btw, how is that broken? The only change is it being able to damage their chosen mark, sort of like a Poppy old ult but more limited.)

Wolf is rejection, you try to run and he will hunt you down being able to stck to you and follow dashes and such. Their characters in lore dont translate into the same play style.

Wolf's ult doesnt make sense thematically or synerhize well ill give you that.

Wolf is designed to stick to a target, with the only way to stop him being to kill him, or die trying in a violent dance with death.

Lamb is designed to dance around the battle field being hard to kill and dealing damage over time.

As for the vision, its a small bit of vision after a long period of time and ONLY reveals the target not their surroundings.

Lightwellian1 votes

{quoted}

You say a spammable way to apply marks? What do you mean?

I think they should switch because Lamb is acceptance, so she wins out in a straight fight due to her Q and Ult, (which btw, how is that broken? The only change is it being able to damage their chosen mark, sort of like a Poppy old ult but more limited.)

Wolf is rejection, you try to run and he will hunt you down being able to stck to you and follow dashes and such. Their characters in lore dont translate into the same play style.

Wolf's ult doesnt make sense thematically or synerhize well ill give you that.

Wolf is designed to stick to a target, with the only way to stop him being to kill him, or die trying in a violent dance with death.

Lamb is designed to dance around the battle field being hard to kill and dealing damage over time.

As for the vision, its a small bit of vision after a long period of time and ONLY reveals the target not their surroundings.

"You say a spammable way to apply marks? What do you mean?"

"Lamb becomes intargetable for half a second and dashes towards the cursor, during this time she marks the 5 nearest targets prioritizing champions, at the end of her dance all marked targets suffer damage equal to 35% of her auto attack damage. This ability can be used 4 times before going on cool down."

"I think they should switch because Lamb is acceptance, so she wins out in a straight fight due to her Q and Ult, (which btw, how is that broken? The only change is it being able to damage their chosen mark, sort of like a Poppy old ult but more limited.)"

"Lamb lays down a wide area of effect. Within this zone no targets can fall below 10% health, with the exception of The Kindred's marked enemies. Targets who fall to the 10% threshold are unable to be healed for the duration of the ult"

"Lamb becomes intargetable for half a second and dashes towards the cursor, during this time she marks the 5 nearest targets prioritizing champions"

5 enemy Champions being exempt from your ult's benefits during a teamfight? Just say mass Kayle ult on your team.

"Wolf is rejection, you try to run and he will hunt you down being able to stck to you and follow dashes and such. Their characters in lore dont translate into the same play style."

They can if the playstyle includes both characters expressing their limited concept at the same time.

"Wolf is designed to stick to a target, with the only way to stop him being to kill him, or die trying in a violent dance with death."

"Lamb is designed to dance around the battle field being hard to kill and dealing damage over time."

You made half of their abilities passive. You can actually just boil that down into a simpler design that doesn't conflict with the Lamb-Wolf relationship and lore.

"As for the vision, its a small bit of vision after a long period of time and ONLY reveals the target not their surroundings."

The surroundings aren't the problem. The problem is that every 20 seconds, you can see where the enemy Jungler is and where he's heading.He won't be able to get a gank off because you constantly reveal his position. Just drop that function and let finding your target be a matter of skill.

Terozu1 votes

Its not the same type of mark ... Its a whole separate mark, like how Sona marks ppl she qs then the dmg targets them. Its not a mark of the kindred.

The vision is once a minute to once every 30 seconds late game. The 20-15-10 is for jungle marks, its tripled for champs and champs are revealed half as long. If anything the vision change should be made to not show Drag and Baron as often.

Lightwellian1 votes

{quoted}

Its not the same type of mark ... Its a whole separate mark, like how Sona marks ppl she qs then the dmg targets them. Its not a mark of the kindred.

The vision is once a minute to once every 30 seconds late game. The 20-15-10 is for jungle marks, its tripled for champs and champs are revealed half as long. If anything the vision change should be made to not show Drag and Baron as often.

In that case, the ultimate is kind of just unfair. Someone on the enemy team just won't benefit from invincibility during the teamfight through no fault of their own.

With regards to vision, that's slightly better, but it still has little purpose and it just negatively impacts the selected enemy with little reason for it. Imagine suddenly getting "Lucky" gank-preventions because you kept the enemy Jungler marked while you farmed your jungle? You didn't earn it. You just indicated that you wanted to see the enemy Jungler's position.

Drop the free mark benefits, and bring the main moves together into one moveset. Passive abilities that proc effects should be restricted to the actual passive ability each champion gets.

Terozu1 votes

Well to be fair Kindred created the invincibility.

Their marks are extremely lack luster, and while vision on champs might be overkill vision on their marks i think would still be good. As for the passive thing, they have one passive effect, which is in a few kits such as vayne's silver bolts spell. This kit is more like Nidalee except instead of giving up the ultimate they give up a basic spell. And instead of getting whole new spells on switch, they gain an altered form of the same spell like when Kayn switches forms.

Of course thus is all matter of opinion.

Also btw, Wolfs ult is sort of like an empowered centered Kindred W.

Lightwellian2 votes

{quoted}

Well to be fair Kindred created the invincibility.

Their marks are extremely lack luster, and while vision on champs might be overkill vision on their marks i think would still be good. As for the passive thing, they have one passive effect, which is in a few kits such as vayne's silver bolts spell. This kit is more like Nidalee except instead of giving up the ultimate they give up a basic spell. And instead of getting whole new spells on switch, they gain an altered form of the same spell like when Kayn switches forms.

Of course thus is all matter of opinion.

Also btw, Wolfs ult is sort of like an empowered centered Kindred W.

The core problem is with Two-form. Everything else is secondary.

Transformation goes against the lore, and they don't have enough to them as individual entities to make it work.

Terozu1 votes

I was thinking less transformation and more tag teaming, Lamb kills the ones that fight with spirit wolf her cracking jokes and tempting her with his chaotic nature. Then they switch Wolf is now a terrifying full bodied beast chasing the ones who are fleeing and Lamb is floating around behind him trying to keep him focused. Not actual transformation.

Lightwellian2 votes

{quoted}

I was thinking less transformation and more tag teaming, Lamb kills the ones that fight with spirit wolf her cracking jokes and tempting her with his chaotic nature. Then they switch Wolf is now a terrifying full bodied beast chasing the ones who are fleeing and Lamb is floating around behind him trying to keep him focused. Not actual transformation.

It is functionally the same. The problem there is that Lamb's only special abilities involve jumping and firing her bow. Wolf is good at chasing and hunting, but that's really just running and biting. They don't have enough to them as individual characters to warrant the usage of a two-form mechanic.

Terozu1 votes

Ok im srry maybe you worded that wrong but by your written logic; all ashe does is shoot arrows. As does Vayne. As does varus. Its not about each ones forms alone, its about each ones forms together. Nidalee with no cougar is pretty useless, and vice versa. Your logic applies to almost all champs...

Lightwellian1 votes

{quoted}

Ok im srry maybe you worded that wrong but by your written logic; all ashe does is shoot arrows. As does Vayne. As does varus. Its not about each ones forms alone, its about each ones forms together. Nidalee with no cougar is pretty useless, and vice versa. Your logic applies to almost all champs...

Vayne has wrist-mounted crossbows, tracking goggles, and plenty of training as a hunter to rely on. She uses special ammunition (as would be expected of a hunter), the same short-ranged maneuver Lamb does, and has an extra weapon to knock an enemy away. Her goggles get use for her passive, and she pulls something else (not sure what) out for her ult.

Varus has a nebulous Darkin being attached to him. Its functions may vary.

Ashe is an archer with an enchanted bow and a "Power that had always lived inside her".

The Kindred are different. They are the literal manifestation of a legend. Their abilities are largely limited to the legend and its implications.

I am willing to admit that they may have enough to them to just barely meet a certain threshold of abilities necessary for a two-form champion. However, this will not benefit their design. They won't be able to fulfill the criterion of them "Hunting together" without running into the same problem we'd have with Nidalee summoning her Cougar form as a separate entity.

Even if we try to count tagging in a means of satisfying the condition, that'll ultimately lead into a case of both forms ultimately being too strong or Wolf basically ripping off Warwick and feeding hard at the same time.

This conversation is becoming far-removed from the original point. Two-form doesn't work with Kindred. It's an unnecessary extreme to go to, and the characters would ultimately be too strong (and rip off Nidalee).

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