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Ao Shin Kit! (Concept) Crits and suggestions encouraged!

Aerith Lilly·1/21/2016, 10:42:45 PM·6 votes·1,915 views

Ao Shin version 2:

I think this caters to the duality a bit more, implements some feedback from @FlameHalbrdOkido as well as makes for an interesting kit.

Again crits and balance and concepts and love needed. <3

Passive: Dragon's Duality

Each of Ao Shins Skills have a quick decision second cast. You must immediately cast the ability again to activate the duality ability. (TODO: come up with an interesting mechanic for how he builds up stacks of duality up to 5 stacks. Duality moves have no cooldown except for R.) Clouds now formulate at 1 cloud per x seconds for charges. Ao can hold up to 6 at a time but can have 12 on the map at one time.

The purpose of this is to create more controlled, high skillcap interactions.

Moves might be

QQ, W , Q , EE , WW , Q(2nd cast) , Q(third cast)

or

WW, Q, W, W , WW, R , E, Q

Q: Dragons Might Ao Shin charges a Piercing red flame and then lets out a roar that pushes enemies backwards a small distance. (This ability can be cast up to 2 more times knocking the enemies back even further on each cast. Enemies can push through the cone shaped pressure front with 35% movement reduction. While in the pressure front enemies are marked and Ao Shin can dash to them with an auto attack)

Q:(Duality) Dragons Benevolence Ao shin charges a comforting green flame and then lets out a roar that heals all allies for X, and then gives them movement speed increase until they leave the pressure front. All allies in the cone are marked for a few seconds and they can be dashed to by clicking them.)

W: Dragons throne

 ACTIVE: Ao Shin Manifests a (NEW: White) Storm cloud at target location. This cloud can be destroyed by being auto attacked for 1(+2 /+4 / +6) based on R level.   He can interact with the cloud by entering it at a range of ~~325~~ 400. (NEW : If he is within this range, he morphs into a lightning bolt and zaps into the cloud. think of lightning coming out of a cloud and then reverse that. It's essentially a blink. He can do this over walls. Ao Shin always has vision of the clouds but not the surrounding area. Think of this as RekSai tunnels but broken apart. This is a ground click cast with a small buildup time after cast. Cast is instant but cloud takes (0.5 - 1  seconds ... somewhere in that range i think is slow enough that its not instant free escape)  While Inside a storm cloud, Ao Shin  (NEW!!!) takes 50% reduced damage of any type He cannot be displaced nor pulled out of the cloud. (Those abilities will instead stun him for 1 second)  I wanted to give this the feeling of a dragon hiding in the clouds and then striking suddenly like lightning which is hard to predict. Clouds cannot be destroyed While Ao Shin occupies them.)

If Ao Shin attacks or leaves the storm cloud, the storm cloud dissipates and he is un stealthed.

IF an ally is in the cloud with ao shin, they are healed for a bit / given a shiled.

W:(Duality) Dragons battlefront.

Aoi Shin’s next storm cloud is untargetable(by attacks), lasts twice as long and will attack enemies within 400 range at 30% of his Attack damage + (+ x ability power) (Think of this as a mini single target tower attack). (NEW: This ability is a ranged attack like small bolts of lightning.)

    Ao Shin&#039;s  storm clouds  last for up to 10 minutes and can have up to 16  clouds active on the map at the same time. Enemy champions can destroy a cloud ~~by entering it for 1.5 seconds~~ by auto attacking it for 3, 5 or 7 times. They are slowed for 30-50% for 1.2/1.5/1.9/2.2/3 seconds depending on level.

E: Dragon’s Dogma: Ao Shin removes all Debuffs on himself, increases his speed by 15% and has 10% damage reduction from physical attacks. Magic damage does 15% reduced damage to Ao Shin. This effect lasts 3 seconds across all ranks.

E:(Duality) Dragons Doubt Ao Shin removes all Debuffs on an enemy, then decreases their speed by 15% and has 10% damage increase from physical attacks. Magic damage does 15% more damage to target. This effect lasts 3 seconds across all ranks.

R: Dragons Downpour: For 5/7.25/8 seconds summons rain across the entire map making his Storm Clouds highly conductive. The Entering Range on his Storm Clouds become 880 and they do not dissipate on exiting or attacking. If Ao Shin travels between 2 Storm Clouds, all nearby enemies are struck with chain lighting. Ao Shin is unable to attack Structures while Dragons Downpour is active, and for 5/7.25/8 seconds after it ends.

R: (Duality) Dragons Fountain:

For 5/7.25/8 seconds summons rain across the entire map making his Storm Clouds highly conductive. The Entering Range on his Storm Clouds become 880 and they dissipate on exiting or attacking. If Ao Shin travels between 2 Storm Clouds, all nearby enemies allies struck with chain healing. Ao Shin is unable to attack Structures while Dragons Fountain is active, and for 5/7.25/8 seconds after it ends.

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Passive: Dragon’s Thunder: Ao Shin gains 2 stacks of Dragons thunder per Auto Attack. Upon reaching 100 stacks Ao Shins Abilities are Empowered, and his attacks have 100% crit chance and 300% crit Damage for 3 seconds. Ao shin gains no bonus from Crit items.
NEW: Ao Shin gains 10 stacks of dragons thunder when he enters a storm cloud, up to 100 stacks.

Q: Dragon’s Might. Ao Shin Lets out a piercing roar. This knocks all targets in a cone backwards This slows their movement by 30%/15%/10% depending on the location in the cone. Full reduction in the center and weaker towards the edges. It also reduces their armor by 10 / 5 / 2.5%. Empowered: (NEW: COSTS 10 STACKS OF DRAGONS THUNDER FOR INITIAL CAST/DASH, AND 5 FOR EACH ADDITIONAL DASH) For 3 4.25 seconds any target marked with Dragon’s Might can be dashed to with a range of 670. 575 After Dashing, Ao Shin does x/x/x/x physical damage plus X% target missing health as true damage. Crit bonus from passive is not applied. A double attack that ignores an additional 15% of that targets Armor. If Ao shin kills a champion, the dash can be recast on another marked target.

W: Dragon's Throne

COOLDOWN: 10 / 9.25 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 ON-ENTER DURATION: 4/ 5/ 6/ 7 / 8

  ACTIVE: Ao Shin Manifests a (NEW: White) Storm cloud at target location. This cloud can be destroyed by being auto attacked for 1(+2 /+4 / +6) based on R level.   He can interact with the cloud by entering it at a range of ~~325~~ 400. (NEW : If he is within this range, he morphs into a lightning bolt and zaps into the cloud. think of lightning coming out of a cloud and then reverse that. It's essentially a blink. He can do this over walls. Ao Shin always has vision of the clouds but not the surrounding area. Think of this as RekSai tunnels but broken apart. This is a ground click cast with a small buildup time after cast. Cast is instant but cloud takes (0.5 - 1  seconds ... somewhere in that range i think is slow enough that its not instant free escape)  While Inside a storm cloud, Ao Shin  (NEW!!!) takes 50% reduced damage of any type He cannot be displaced nor pulled out of the cloud. (Those abilities will instead stun him for 1 second)  I wanted to give this the feeling of a dragon hiding in the clouds and then striking suddenly like lightning which is hard to predict. Clouds cannot be destroyed While Ao Shin occupies them.)

. While inside the cloud Ao Shin passively gains 2 10 stacks of Dragons thunder instantly. If Ao Shin attacks or leaves the storm cloud, the storm cloud dissipates and he is un stealthed. Empowered: Aoi Shin’s next storm cloud is untargetable, lasts twice as long and will attack enemies within 400 range at 30% of his Attack damage + (+ x ability power) . (NEW: This ability is a ranged attack like small bolts of lightning.)

(NEW : TODO: GIVE this duality abiltiy(something along the lines of heal / damage or speed buff/slow debuff)

    Ao Shin&#039;s  storm clouds  last for up to 10 minutes and can have up to 16  clouds active on the map at the same time. Enemy champions can destroy a cloud ~~by entering it for 1.5 seconds~~ by auto attacking it for 3, 5 or 7 times. They are slowed for 30-50% for 1.2/1.5/1.9/2.2/3 seconds depending on level.

E: Dragon’s Dogma: Ao Shin removes all Debuffs on himself, increases his speed by 15% and has 10% damage reduction from physical attacks. Magic damage does 15% reduced damage to Ao Shin. This effect lasts 3 seconds across all ranks.

R: Dragons Downpour: For 5/7.25/8 seconds summons rain across the entire map making his Storm Clouds highly conductive. Ao shin regenerates 10 Stacks of Dragons thunder per Auto Attack. The Entering Range on his Storm Clouds become 880 and they do not dissapate on exiting or attacking. If Ao Shin travels between 2 Storm Clouds, all nearby enemies are struck with chain lighting. Ao Shin is unable to attack Structures while Dragons Downpour is active, and for 5/7.25/8 seconds after it ends.

64 Comments

FlameHalbrdOkido2/1/2016, 1:27:58 AM1 votes

wasnt sure if you were done making changes but it appears that you are. Im going to start critiquing in terms of Ao's theme as well as mechanics at the same time and how a player would respond. Ao is kind of the Origin of the Storm(in my head)

P - Questions

Do stacks decay after a certain amount of time? (to stop him from always having empowered abilities). Do they decay 1 at a time, or 10 at once?

  • Suggestions/ Analysis You could call the passive: Rising Storm. You should state that stacks enable empowered abilities.

After a bit of thought, I realized that the passive may have a fallacy. If one of the goals with W is to build up a cloud network why would the passive encourage using up the clouds to gain the stacks? The stacks allow the next ability used to become empowered when you have enough and I assume you could build up 100 and the next 10 basic abilities would each use 10 stacks and become empowered.

I then realized it must be a trade off thing, in exchange for more powerful abilities, Ao must absorb and sacrifice one of his precious clouds which subsequently reduces the range and effectiveness of his ult. I'm not sure if this is genius or what, but its like the player has to make serious decisions regarding clouds for R and empowered abilities. So I think it is good, make sure you emphasize the empowered abilities or people will question why its not just W's passive.

Q

I like it, because it fits his thundery theme well, also the duality of the slow and armor reduction is nice.

Maybe no double AA in Q because Shyvana also has a double hit Q. In most cases it is ok for champs to share abilities, but because Shy is so close in theme as a half dragon, its not a good idea. Same for Q allowing him to dash multiple times, Yasuo's E allows him to do that as well and he also uses wind. In actuality, you don't need to give him a dash on Q at all. W lets him dash to clouds, E gives him a MS buff, and R lets him dash from cloud to cloud, he doesn't need mobility on every ability. I would say that either the slow or armor reduction could be moved to the empowered version. Also maybe it can move clouds if it hits one.

If you are looking for other ways to soup up buffed Q, I have suggestions Allied units in Q's AoE could become emboldened and deal additional AD. Allies in Q's AoE could gain armor pen, or be granted bonus mana

W - questions

Cloud radius? Ao doesn't deal damage to enemies in the way when he dashes to a cloud does he? The lighting is purely thematic right? Can he enter empowered clouds? Untargetable means just for enemies right? Why does he stealth in clouds? When you say "they are slowed," you mean enemy champs if they walk through a cloud, right?

  • Analysis

50% damage reduction I think is a bit much (due to duration), if at all it should be 10/20/30/40/50, but it really shouldn't go above 40%.

I like that you can't knock him out of the cloud, really sells throne part, and that he's powerful.

Since its ground cast, to dash to a cloud Ao should be able to cast W a second time while the cursor is over a cloud. Dash W and cloud W would have separate CDs

What if Ao could AA an empowered cloud to make it attack (this would assume that he is ranged) instead of it attacking on its own. I still like the idea of Ao being able to attack with extended range and damage from the cloud tho, like Zeus in those old cartoons. If the cloud is going to attack on its own it makes him like Heimerdinger. Is the empowered cloud attack in a DoT, or is it a single charged strike in an AoE, or is it a single target strike? Honestly allowing the empowered cloud to attack on its own overloads Aos kit. To help reduce this, empowered clouds would need to be targetable just like Heimers turrets.

Find a dual aspect to W yet? What about the mana/health ramping regen rain idea?

W / Passive / R relationship

Since pre lvl 6 Ao is so dependent on W for stacks, he either won't be empowering abilities alot because he is saving them or he will be building up stacks. But I assume that you cannot determine when you use stacks, that once you have some the next ability always use the next 10 stacks if available.

Finally are sure that you want to allow his stacks to max at 100, and his basic AA during R to build stacks as well? I know that nothing happens at 100 attacks but Shyvana builds fury with AA as well, and her fury is also maxed at 100. It's up to you whether you still want to keep the mechanics of the passive the same.

Empowered abilities is not such a bad idea, but its how he gets them that matters. Entering clouds is still a viable idea, as even though it may seem counter intuitive at first, its really a mechanic that is forcing the player to make decisions, and it fits his theme. So in this case the rule can be bent.

It's the maxing at 100 and the R allowing Ao to AA for stacks that has me worried because that really sounds a lot like Shyvana. On that note, Ao should not scale as well with AS as Shy does. He should probably revolve more around CDR. Maybe he shouldn't generate any stacks except when entering clouds, when he is using R he can jump to clouds so easily and they don't disappear. If you want Ao to be able to build stacks faster while ulting just make W go on a lower CD while R is active.

W Thematics mechanics

The fact that entering a cloud grants him those stacks makes W very cool thematically. Because once you descend from the cloud you are just that much more powerful. But it also means that W's CD has to be very carefully balanced. Too low and there are too many clouds in too little time, and that means either a super strong R, or Ao building stacks too quickly and being able to maintain them too well. In this case I would suggest making it that once he gains 10 stacks he can't generate anymore until he uses all of them. If Ws CD is too long he won't have enough clouds for R when the time comes and that also means that he won't building stacks as much he would have W too slow to have enough stacks to use his empowered abilities. And he won't be able use his empowered abilities too much, which is bad.

E: Dragons Dogma

I feel that it fits his "above concerns and rules of men" theme very well. Is there a reason that E doesn't have an empowered form? If not I have a suggestion. Empowered E - Jet Stream: Ao Shin blasts out a wide tunnel of wind. Within this linear AoE allied units cannot be affected by soft CC.

Make all clouds invuberable while using R

Things to keep in mind Water & weather Powerful Storm Dragon KING Power & elegance Prosperity & rising thundering storm of ruin Duality Rain good fortune on patrons In next breath bring stormy thunderous ruin to enemies of patrons Above concerns and rules of men Connect to nature of this world (more so than Bard) Capture UNIQUE anatomy and movement bring new dimension Ways Ao will move across the map

Should more weather/ cloud based than wind

FlameHalbrdOkido2/3/2016, 2:08:08 AM1 votes

just now realizing that E is a bit overloaded for a basic ability

1.) Ao Shin removes all Debuffs on himself 2.) Increases his speed by 15% 3.) 10% damage reduction from physical attacks 4.) Magic damage does 15% reduced damage This effect lasts 3 seconds across all ranks.

it is actually pretty much a mini Olaf Ragnarak, its ok if champions share abilities and unlike Shy and Yasuo, or Janna, Olaf shares few similarities with Ao Shin, but in this case its not that they share similar abilities, but the amount of work that E does. Even though the effects last only 3 seconds, it is too powerful.

Most abilities that I know of in the game that completely remove or stop debuffs even from happening continually are ultimates (even if only 3 sec, Olaf’s lasts 6).

most of the basic abilities that remove debuffs, or can stop debuffs from happening last only a few seconds, (with Morgana being an outlier at 5 sec (still less than Olaf)). These would be Spell Shields (Morg, Noct, and Fiora to a lesser extent), and Gangplanks Oranges. The thing with the basic abilities version is that most last 1.5 sec or less (if they aren’t used once like Gangplank) and once they block CC, they are immediately consumed. But the biggest thing about these is that if these abilities do anything besides block CC they only grant one extra thing, but not 3 extra things. (Plus Ao’s W already reduces damage)

im not saying that you need to completely scrap the ability, but there are other ways for Ao to block CC and gain these buffs without it being OP. One way is flat out reducing the buffs to 1 (just the CC removal) or 2 (CC removal and a second buff). Another is reducing the time that its active (instant one time CC removal, to 1.5 sec of the buffs being active) The second way is to give him some of (or all) the buffs but leave a window of weakness - instead of it basically being an aura shield that completely surrounds him, maybe he projects a cloud bank in a curved line in front of him that cleanses CC of abilities that pass through it. Another idea would be to just try finding another way to obtain the same goal as the original E, this could be staying similar, or going in a completely opposite direction. Maybe Ao shoots a charged single instant lightning bolt in a direction (or maybe on in the direction that he is facing to make it more difficult) (linear AoE like Xerath’s Q) that nullifies any CC of an ability that it touches. Maybe Ao Shin blasts out a wide tunnel of wind. Within this linear AoE allied units cannot be affected by soft CC. These are just a few ideas that can give Ao the same or similar CC removal, buff or buffs without it being OP, AND without giving it a huge glaring weakness, that would make players question weather or not they should use it. Its possible to keep the ability if you dont want to change it.

FlameHalbrdOkido2/3/2016, 5:18:23 AM1 votes

From Gypsy Lord to you

"It's okay for not every skill on a kit to be 10/10, especially the ones that tie the kit together in very important ways. Twisted Fate E is my favorite example of this. TF is all about throwing Q's, picking cards, and global ganks. He really doesn't need anything else to think about on his kit and so the E just give a simple steroid to encourage basic attacking and gives some AS to improve his attack frame (both of which make W feel really good)"

FlameHalbrdOkido2/4/2016, 2:23:24 AM1 votes

Another way that it could be possible for E to possibly retain a few or all the buffs would be to attach the number of buffs he gets on E's cast to the number of passive stacks he has. So when Ao has 1-5 stacks if E is cast it gives him MS buff, at 6-9 stacks if E is cast it will block Soft CC, and at 10 stacks it blocks all CC. If E is cast at 6 stacks or higher it should consume a stack. This way you can give him those strong buffs but make the player have to work to get them. Another idea is to make the ability have to charge: When E is available, it will start passively charging, at 10-49% if E cast he gets MS, at 50-99% he gets soft CC reduction, and at 100%, he gets all CC reduction, or all CC negation. The last idea is a toggle where when toggled on he start actively charging the ability up, and it can be toggled off to pause the charge and save the amount for the next time its toggled back on. When toggled on the ability IS active (meaning that it grants MS and CC reduction/negation, at the same time that it is charging to grant better buffs over time) and it drains mana (or it could drain stacks, 1 at a time instead of 10). But the second that he is hit by a champion ability, or AA (with or without CC, your choice) the buff is consumed and the ability goes on CC. Maybe there could be a time limit on how long the ability is active for, but if it uses up enough mana or stacks fast enough maybe that would be enough.

These ideas are all just constraints on the activation time, and how many buffs Ao gets at once, the idea is that Ao Shin is gathering his power like a storm brewing. If you let him build up his strength then it will be hard to take him down. Any of these can be used on some of the E ability suggestions I made before.

Like compare Ao's E to Twitch's Q. When you press Q on Twitch, he doesn't instantly go invisible. The ability takes a bit to charge up, then he turns invisible: Balanced.

FlameHalbrdOkido2/8/2016, 9:23:12 AM1 votes

sorry i can tend to get carried away in stuff i find interesting

FlameHalbrdOkido2/13/2016, 5:48:04 AM1 votes

Aw man scared him off I guess, shame too this concept has such potential.

Aerith Lilly2/22/2016, 6:46:43 PM1 votes

ALSO: NOTE!

I happen to be a developer... so if Anyone happens to want to model this guy out and work on the visuals, I can code up a working Iteration of the champion and make him playable in a bit of a demo :)

FlameHalbrdOkido2/24/2016, 6:17:19 AM1 votes

Would you agree that Q's empowered version might be a bit overloaded?

1.) he can dash to marked targets 2.) Added to the fact that Shyvana also already had a double hit Q, (too close due to thematic similarities, so thats a danger zone) 3.) if he kills a champ he can dash again 4.) which probably causes another double attack It reminds me of a Irelia too, but never mind that, because its ok for champs to share abilities the problem is that not only does the empowered Q do a lot on its own, but it relies on the normal Q to do anything, and the normal Q is already doing something entirely different, and is a source of damage.

Finally on top of that W is a dash, E is a MS buff, and R is a dash. I dont think that Q needs to grant more mobility... Unless of course you would be changing another ability. But you do see my point that Empowered Q is OP right? I think that regular Q is very fitting a great ability thematically and mechanically even if it isn't a 10/10 OMG best ability ever, it fits and it does it job. However, I do not think that empowered Q is a good empowered version of normal Q, because it completely changes the ability, its more of an entirely different ability rather than an empowered Q, I don't think that it is necessary or flows with the Kit very well.

In terms of empowered abilities, or double cast abilities: these are usually just a stronger version of their normal selves, sometimes with one added effect. Riven's Q, Renethekton's E and Passive, Rengar's Passive, Kha'Zix's Evolutions, Rumble's E (even Rumble's Danger zone empowers mainly his abilities with just stat buffs (his E can be cast 2x)). You get the idea.

Now champs with larger changes to empowered or multi-cast abilities would be Yasuo, and Shyvana Shvana changes completely in her dragon form, but each ability still seems like a stronge version of its weaker self, and the change empowerments make thematic sense. Yasuo on the other hand as a Q that changes almost completely on the 3rd cast. But not without reason, he has to maintain stacks to get the big change, and it makes sense for his kit and thematics, basically it's a large long range version of its weaker casts with a knock up. But he needs this because his ult requires a knock up, so it fits very nicely into his kit.

If you do agree, I have a suggestion for the empowered Q. First I have to admit, that when I think of Ao Shin, I always related him more deeply to his storm theme than his dragon theme. I tend to think of the normal Q like a pressure front, so I would nick name the empowered Q High Pressure Front

Empowered Q: When stacks are available Q can be cast a second time within 3 sec of the 1st cast. Each cast has 50% increased range and cone width. Each cast creates a wind barrier at as they progress, pushing back enemies and W clouds to the end of thier range and inhibiting enemy movement, this barrier persist at the end of the range for 3 seconds.

Basically Ao Shin projects a wall of wind that is pushing enemies away, and keeps them at bay, (nice way for getting enemies off your squishes). Because this "wall" (it stops enemies from moving past, but its not terrain) persists for a few sec afterwards enemies will have to adjust and will likely be paused for a sec (like a better version than a slow in a way). The Greatest thing, is that you actually get to keep your targtted dash from the old empowered Q. Because this version pushes clouds the end of the range and the enemies back the same length, you could dash to one of the cloud and still be right on top of them.

What do you think?

FlameHalbrdOkido2/25/2016, 11:04:51 PM1 votes

"character sheets" meaning champion unit top, bottom, right/ left, front and back views? or ability (meaning the character unit and VFX) views and frames?

Aerith Lilly2/25/2016, 11:35:35 PM1 votes

updated champion concept. As for how the moves would feel. Think of him as a high skill cap, quick decision split caster. You have to piano his moves together like combos to keep them going or the conductivity will add cooldown. You can build up your stacks and then piano the moves together like a beat machine quickly rewarding your ability to think dynamically and have great hand control. If you don't manage your taps or have a habit of spamming skills you will find Ao Shin to be hard to master. This playstyle strongly rewards players who can queue up moves on the fly and execute them under pressure.

FlameHalbrdOkido2/25/2016, 11:39:12 PM1 votes

Here are a couple of really good pre-made 3D models, i figure its best to use work thats already done and then I can fill in what you need (I work in pencil)

http://artquest7.deviantart.com/art/Ao-Shin-Posed-501332397 http://boards.las.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/charlas-generales/caknfL4a-aportemos-ideas-para-el-kit-de-ao-shin http://polycount.com/discussion/142366/riot-art-contest-ao-shin https://sketchfab.com/models/a1a2fe0821864fceb5712e4ab0ea2408 http://elohell.net/chill/344323/3d-ao-shin-model

FlameHalbrdOkido2/26/2016, 1:23:51 AM1 votes

Before you read my suggestions I have to say the kit was looking good until I realized something. It is a thing that seriously endangers the viability of this current kit. I started making suggestions, but they are pretty much moot. If you agree with the point I am about to make to will understand why I am saying all of this. I don't feel like deleting my suggestions, because they are still valid. The problem is how Duality casted abilities work...

I am actually not very sure how this double cast thing is going to work. When an ability is cast WITHOUT quick cast on it brings up the range indicator and then they player clicks the mouse and the ability fires. In a set up like this where there is a delay before the ability is actually cast, your duality mechanic WOULD work: casting Q twice and then clicking in a direction to fire the duality version Q. BUT in ALL the levels of higher ELO play quick cast is what is mostly used. And I seriously doubt you will find a Pro who doesn't use quick cast. Quick Cast would completely break this kit. Because there is NO delay before and ability is cast. If a player using quick cast wanted a duality Q, they would waste a cast of Q before getting the duality version, that is because quick cast would not take into account Q being hit twice before it fired. And for a player, they don't have time to wait, LoL is about split second decisions A LOT, and there is no room for mistakes in some cases and even less room for the champion kit to work against you. This kit would be a no go in higher elo. The abilities are fine, but the kit is working against the player, and forcing them to work a lot harder than they should have. If you can explain why you think there is a way it could work, im all ears, but the double cast is not going to work as it stands.

My suggesting is, just to make the abilities do both things at the same time. Why cant Q push and slow enemies and speed up allies. Why can't W heal allies inside if he is inside, and then just zap enemies if he is not inside (we can work on the conditions here). Why can't E work just like Zilean's E? Why can't R work like the way I suggested with the rain (even if you don't like my suggestion there is a way for both sides of the duality to work at the same time). There is no reason to try to split his aspects. If Ao Shin represents duality, then he should handle both parts at the same time, otherwise his kit becomes unnecessarily complicated. If you are really dead set on this duality concept I would suggest changing E to work like Rek'Sai's W. By pressing E it changes the effects of Ao's abilities.

In my mind, that would be kind of pointless, because his abilities really wouldn't change much, but its a start (Plus my opinion doesnt matter as much as your's (pls dont see me as a debby downer, im just trying to be realistic, im sure there is a way it can work if your are super dead set on it)). At a minimum I wish that you would read all of my ability ideas/suggestions and tell me what you think, why you didn't like or pick them. I did my best to cater to your ideas and mix a bit of both sides of duality into each ability, it may not be explicit but I can explain if you want.

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FlameHalbrdOkido2/26/2016, 4:34:55 AM1 votes

Here are all me suggestions that I made before I realized that double casting might not be the best idea, I don't want to continue analyzing until you have read the top part of this post and confirm your thoughts.

P Duality Mechanic Suggestions "TODO: come up with an interesting mechanic for how he builds up stacks of duality up to 5 stacks." Suggestion for this: Balance Bar

"Under Ao Shin's Mana bar is a 3rd bar with 5 sections in it (Think Jhin Ammo bar) Ao Shin starts off the game with 1 stack in MIDDLE section of the bar (3rd bar). 1 Bar is the True Balance zone, no buffs are granted. Each time one of Ao Shin's abilities effects an allied champion with an ability first, it grants Ao Shin a stack to the right, increasing the strength of the buffs/ stats that his abilities grant to allies. Each time one of Ao Shin's abilities effects an enemy champion with an ability first, it grants Ao Shin a stack to the left, increasing the strength of the debuffs that his abilities place on enemies. Each stack last 10 sec.

so it looks like this at the beginning of the game Health------------------------ Mana-------------------------- Balance 00100

After some allies are effected first consistently Balance 00123

After some enemies are effected first consistently Balance 32100

This is just a suggestion, however I realize that a Balance bar made like this might be Too Much Burden of Knowledge. with having to manage your mana, and cloud count, on top of the duality double cast, having a Balance Bar like this might be just too much. In fact having stacks at all might be a bad idea unless the stacks are replacing his mana bar. Pls tell me what you had in mind for how his stacks might work

Tooltip Description I would omit this in the passive and move this to W, it shouldn't be in the passive "Clouds now formulate at 1 cloud per x seconds for charges. Ao can hold up to 6 at a time but can have 12 on the map at one time."

Is the Duality Version of the abilities only available if you immediately cast one again after hitting it once (meaning that the actual 2nd cast of an ability only primes the duality version and doesn't actually do anything)? Or is the Duality versions just become available after casting a normal Q. How duality works needs to be handled very well if it is going to work. I actually am unsure about it, I don't think I like it very much for my self, but I think it could be interesting, it needs to be worded better such as: If Q is cast within 0.75 sec within the first cast, it will prime the Dual version WITHOUT actually casting the ability

Q Tool Tip Description Instead of saying that Ao charges a "type of flame" an element or aspect of the weather or sky might be a better choice. Even just changing "red flame" to red wind would work. When doing these concept tool-tips theme/ element and character consistency are your best friend and should be top priority. The reason being is that readers can be easily confused and even turned off if they don't understand. If Ao Shin is supposed to be a storm dragon why would fire even be mentioned. Wind or just energy/ essence would fit much better here.

Mechanics Its important to put restrictions on how long an ability can be recast if it has multiple casts available. Sometimes this comes in the form of an ammo system, or with each available cast having a short static CD before the next one can be cast, or with there just being a set amount of time for recasts before it all goes on CD. In the case of the current Q here and keeping the current passive in mind (Each of Ao Shins Skills have a quick decision second cast. You must immediately cast the ability again to activate the duality ability), the best option might be to word it like this: "This ability can be cast twice more within 2 sec with the timer resetting after each cast."

Questions and Other Suggestions Is the "cone shaped pressure" and AoE that persists during the ability travel time, and after it had reached the end of its duration? Just so you know, Pressure Fronts in the real world are more like thick lines of wind, in the case of the game it would be a curved Linear AoE that travels to and persists at the end of the Cone's range. The Linear AoE is what causes the pushing and the 35% MS reduction. If you meant for it to actually be the entire cone, then just ignore what I just said about it being a line. I still really feel like you are overloading Q by letting Ao dash to ally or enemy champs.

Had a random Idea for R what if his W CD was lowered while R was active?

FlameHalbrdOkido3/6/2016, 3:22:04 AM1 votes

sorry if i was too harsh, but the double click just won't work in some cases :( still wasnt a bad idea

FlameHalbrdOkido3/6/2016, 3:22:51 AM1 votes

are you still gonna continue this though, even though Aurelion Sol has been teased?

FlameHalbrdOkido3/7/2016, 11:39:24 PM1 votes

Ok

FlameHalbrdOkido3/9/2016, 2:57:07 PM1 votes

Alright Sol's out, and he is fundamentally very different.

FlameHalbrdOkido3/10/2016, 4:05:11 AM1 votes

I have been working a kit that uses all of ur abilities I think that problem has always been the passive, while each one was very cool, I think that with the way the kit was made the passive was the one thing that cause it to fall apart. With this in mind I have created a new kit, and slightly changed abilities to fit with it. There will still be empowered abilities, and duality, but i think with a new passive it will all flow together much nicer. Would you like to see it?

FlameHalbrdOkido3/10/2016, 10:03:40 PM1 votes

Mana Ranged 500

P: Storm Front He constantly generates a steady AoE wind in a 600 radius that blows in the direction that he is facing and interacts with his abilities.

Q: Thunderburst 330-600 range/65 degrees/250-600 knock back He unleashes a powerful pressure blast in a cone in a target direction damaging and knocking back enemies that it passes. If he has been facing the same direction for 3 sec, Q will travel to the end of Storm Front's radius and push enemies along the way.

W: Cloud Haven 300 range/400 dash/200 cloud radius/100 drift MS Passive: Fully developed clouds within Storm Front's radius that he is not inside will slowly drift in Storm Front's direction. Clouds hit by Thunderburst will be pushed along. Active: He creates a small stationary white cloud that builds up over 1 second at a target location. Once fully manifested he can dash to a cloud by recasting while the mouse is over a cloud at no cost or CD. Once inside, the cloud will turn grey and start raining, healing allies over time by a small amount while in range. While inside Clouds will last 5 sec before dissipating. Clouds last 10 minutes if left alone and a max of 16 can be on the map at once. Clouds can be destroyed by 3/3/4/5/6 AA's. Clouds occupied by him cannot be destroyed. If he actively attacks or leaves the cloud it will instantly dissipate. He always has sight of active clouds.

E: Wind Tunnel - 800 range/250 wide Passive: If Storm Front's directional wind is lined up parallel with Wind Tunnel's linear AoE, Storm Front passively slows and deals a minor DoT (or decreases resistances by 15%) to enemies inside E Active: He creates a tunnel of wind lasting 5 sec granting 50% Tenacity and 15% MS in the direction that Storm Front is blowing, to allied champs inside.

R: Dark Skys - Global For 5/7.25/8 sec he increases Storm Front's radius by 200 and causes all active Cloud Havens on the map to become black and rain and triples cloud MS within Storm Front's radius. The entering range for Cloud Havens is increased to 880 units, they do not dissipate on exiting or attacking and the CD is decreased. If he dashes between 2 Cloud Havens, his dash becomes a linear lightning AoE, damaging enemies he passes.

Useful combos W, Empowered Q, Dash W R, W, W, Empowered Q, Dash W W, E, Dash W

FlameHalbrdOkido3/11/2016, 3:17:54 AM1 votes

What do you think about the passive? How intertwined it is to especially inherently be a living breathing part of the kit

There are a lot of things that we can play with in terms of weather such as humidity: wet air vs. dry air turbulence: weakening defenses or other abilities air density: what if his E increases the duration of CC Thunder: Weakening defenses

Weather is the state of the atmosphere, to the degree that it is hot or cold, wet or dry, calm or stormy, clear or cloudy. Most weather phenomena occur in the troposphere just below the stratosphere. Weather refers to day-to-day temperature and precipitation activity. Weather is driven by air pressure, temperature and moisture differences between one place and another.

The strong temperature contrast between polar and tropical air gives rise to the jet stream.

The system is a chaotic system; so small changes to one part of the system can grow to have large effects on the system as a whole

in order to separate this guy from Janna or Kennen, as THE PREEMINENT STORM champion, whereas Kennen only has lightning and Janna only has wind, we gotta find what this guy brings to the table that others dont.

FlameHalbrdOkido3/19/2016, 4:24:08 AM1 votes

you don't think that I butchered the concept kit do you?

FlameHalbrdOkido3/22/2016, 7:54:49 PM1 votes

Found some cool concept art that you could use http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/WruB8EiN-my-aurelion-sol-concept

FlameHalbrdOkido3/27/2016, 10:17:26 PM1 votes

what do you think about him granting AS to allies that he passes while ulting?

FlameHalbrdOkido4/8/2016, 4:43:09 PM1 votes

so what do you think?

FlameHalbrdOkido4/27/2016, 4:39:45 AM1 votes

wow its been 3 months already this must be how it feels on a real champion design team, anyways I haven't given up on this idea yet, I've still got more ideas that I would like to share, and I think about this every now and then, its time for a though dump (unloading or wat eves)

FlameHalbrdOkido4/27/2016, 5:32:55 AM1 votes

so i got a few more suggestions for E

This one would replace E: Wind Tunnel in the kit that I wrote before. I think that this would work in that kit much better

E - Atmospheric River:

Type: Non Damage Skillshot Effect: Linear AoE Range: 3000/3500/4500/5500/6500 Width: 575

Passive: Allied units gain 5% bonus MS. Allied units under rain clouds inside the AoE gain a buff called Cleansed. Cleansed units cannot be affacted by enemy CC (that is not Stasis) for 2.5 sec. This effect can only be applied once. Active: After a short cast time he creates a long, wide blast of directional weather containing an AoE for 8 sec. Within this AoE the winds of his Passive remain active in the direction that that ability was cast: His Q will travel the full distance E's range if shot in the same direction. Clouds within the AoE instantly become developed and automatically become rain clouds, they also will drift in the direction that E was cast (but the direction of his MAIN passive radius is prioritized if the cloud is within it).

Another Idea that I had before E - Atmospheric River was

E - Deluge:

Type: Area cast Effect: AoE Buff Range: 600 - 800 (R)

He causes the area within his passive to rain increasing Tenacity by 40% per sec up to 100% over 5 sec.

I like Atmospheric River best though, because it would really demonstrate his wide a far reaching power a the wielder of weather. He could be on one side of the map and with the click of a button he can effect the other side and not even have to leave his location while still turning the tides. Also this ability is not just far reaching, it covers a wide area, and it last a long period of time as well. Finally most importantly this can serve as a herald for his arrive should her choose, because it can give him a direction ally to shoot through, with it pushing alone his clouds and all its great I love it, i hope that u do too ^_^

also an addition to R Passive: Enemies under rain clouds gain the debuff: drenched. Drenched enemies take 10% increased damage from lightning dashes.

FlameHalbrdOkido4/27/2016, 5:34:30 AM1 votes

there was actually a whole lot more I was gonna write about the old E versions and passives, and cohesiveness, but the window quit out on me

FlameHalbrdOkido4/29/2016, 2:10:39 AM1 votes

pls respond :(

FlameHalbrdOkido5/4/2016, 12:04:47 AM1 votes

so for Atmospheric River I was actually thinking that I could reach from the middle of top lane to the middle of bot lane. so the range might be more like 14000 units, and be around 550 (575-ish) to 600 (650 -ish ) units in width

I was thinking that the Idea with Ao Shin's kit is that like how actual real weather effects huge areas of the earth he should interact with the map the same way

FlameHalbrdOkido5/4/2016, 12:31:45 AM1 votes

i just realized that I may have misunderstood all the versions of E that you suggested: By debuffs you only mean persistent effects and statuses placed on Ao Shin by enemies but NOT CC right?

FlameHalbrdOkido5/14/2016, 2:54:53 AM1 votes

I think that I ideas within this thread are too good to let die off. I hope that I is not too much of a problem for you but I am going to repost these ideas. Of course I will make a link back to this thread and credit the origin of these great ideas with you, I had fun working with you.

Aerith Lilly5/14/2016, 4:09:45 AM1 votes

Hey! I've been swamped with work :( I'll be free in about a week (lame vacation stay at home and league <3)

Aerith Lilly5/29/2016, 7:33:21 PM1 votes

on vacation now :) alive?

FlameHalbrdOkido6/15/2016, 6:39:12 PM1 votes

aw, hey sorry i didn't see these last comments, really sorry for not checking back here, yes Im still alive, sorry for the wait

FlameHalbrdOkido6/15/2016, 6:50:21 PM1 votes

heres the separate, page that I tried to make to revive this

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/XKglkR88-community-champion-concept-true-storm-embodiment

when i first posted it the post wasn't as developed as it was now, i sounded kinda crazy, and not sophisticated the way it sounds now

FlameHalbrdOkido3/20/2017, 2:20:07 AM1 votes

... I am still here...