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Demir the cosmic reaver [cwc champion concept]

nasu010·6/14/2018, 1:47:19 PM·4 votes·2,874 views
Dormammu

Stats: Base Health: 1200 600 Ability power: high Utility: medium Mobility: generally slow medium (out of combat) Difficulty: medium -- high Damage type:Ability power Vulnerability: physical Damage Role: mage, anti-tank, support, jungle Lane: mid, bot

>Passive: astral body - absorbing aether while out of combat increases movement speed and health regeneration by 4%~~ scales with leveling~~.

>Basic attacks fire waves of cosmic dust, leaving the target covered in aether max 10 stacks, can be consumed when hit by abilities to deal 2% ap per stack.

Q, > Rift open, opens a Rift in a target line dealing 70/90/110/150/180 *30 / 50 / 65/ 85 / 110+ 20% magic damage and stunning enemies that pass through, the Rift remains for 12 6 second absorbing all 1 projectiles causing it to chose Instantly refunding 2 seconds on the cool down and leaves 4 2 stacks of aether on enemies that pass through.5 *6 sec cooldown, rift opens as the other closes otherwise ability goes into full CD 15 secs.

Passing through a rift triggers phase walk for 6 secs allowing Demir to move through walls, becoming untargetable while phase walking.( can still be hit with magic projectiles and AP aoe, re-entering a rift while phased will brake phase).* Open rifts can only be entered and exited once after opening with 3 sec CD gap between entering and exiting rifts.

W >,Rift burst; projects a beam from an open Rift Dealing 120 / 140 / 160 / 180/ 200+(40%ap damage), If no rifts are open it empowers the next 5 basic attacks ignoring armor and magic resistance and increasing damage value by +15 after each hit (eg: base attack 130 AP +15+15+15+15+15) and slowing target by 30%, *10/9/8/7/6 CD, Applies on hit effects and aether.

E, >Rift horror; summons a tentacle from the rift stretching towards target direction first pulling the target into the rift dealing *(only the damage from the openrift) 70/90/110/150/180, then fears target for 4 *.4/.8/1.2/1.6/2.0secs, if no rifts are open dimir summons a rift fiend for 10 secs which attacks nearby enemy units prioritizing aether marked champions 5 15/14/13/12/ 11 sec CD.

Passive, if activated while phase walking, brakes phase and fears targets with-in 300 unit.

>Rift fiends: An octopod/humanoid creature; octopod heads with tentacles surrounding mouth, humanoid torso, single tentacle each arm and 3 each leg: deal 22% current ap as their bases damage by slashing at enime units in a 60°arc and spinning 360 ° towards nearest aether marked champions; hit by spinning fiends *take no damage from it but are held in place by the fiend for * .4 /.8 /1.2/1.6/1.8 /2.0 secs ~~ the rest of its duration~~ (if additional fiends are present / out number currently parked champions multiple fiends may target the same champion dealing damage as norma,l enemies rooted by the Fiends cannot be rooted again by fiends for 5 seconds after the root breaks). these fiends are targetable and are defeated with 2 hits or 200+ damage.

R, > Dominion; Demir absorbs aether from space doubling his size, increases his current max hp by 50% and increasing his ability power by 20%. Becoming empowered, his new surge of energy causes rifts to remain open for longer periods (20 12 sec) and spawns 5 fiends from any rift he exits phase walk passes through.

12 Comments

TheShAyne6/14/2018, 2:23:33 PM1 votes

Pretty op

Psychoaryama6/14/2018, 8:48:27 PM1 votes

That being said, 1200 Health seems a little high, unless that's base health at lv 18, in which case that's actually pretty low. At Level 1, most champions have around 400-600 Health. In fact, the highest base health at Level 1 is Tryndamere at 625 base health at level 1, so 1200 health would be double the highest Level 1 base health in the game. So hopefully 1200 isn't his Level 1 Health.

For the Q, 12 seconds does seem way too long. 5 seconds would be the longest I'd recommend, probably closer to 3 at least to start, then maybe scaling up to 4. Of course, if there's a good reason that it lasts that long, like it's what happens with Dormammu's version of that ability, then maybe it could be allowable, but given the damage, the fact that it has a stun, it absorbs projectiles (making most ranged abilities effectively useless), and it puts stacks on anything that passes through it, making them take increased damage, I'd say no more than 3 seconds. I'd also suggest at the very least reducing the stun to either a slow or a silence, one of the two, or make the stun 0.5 seconds so it's not terribly dangerous to them. Also, being untargetable for a full 6 seconds just by walking through a rift he created seems a bit long. Again, 3 seconds at most, and clarify that he can't enter rift to phase walk, re-enter to break it (speaking of which, it's spelled "break", not "brake"), and re-enter again to phase walk again. Make it so once he phase walks he can't phase walk again for a certain amount of time. Also, unless the passive means that Demir can pass through an enemy Demir's rift to trigger or break Phase Walk, that's more just an effect of the rift itself, not a passive effect of the ability. Passive effects are more just effects that are active whether the ability is in use or not, and actually are usually inactive when the ability itself is on cooldown.

For the W, if the empowerment lasts 5 attacks and ignores armor and magic resist, I feel like either the damage boosting effect should go away or the slowing effect should go away. Like with the Q, it just seems like a bit too much happening for one spell activation.

For the E, a 4-second fear seems a bit too much, especially given all the damage the tentacle will do with the added effects of the Aether stacks being put on them by the rift itself. A 5-second cooldown for this ability when the rift lasts 12 seconds. Also, breaking phase walk if activated is less of a "passive" and more of a side-effect. And, if I'm reading that Rift Fiend effect correctly, getting hit by a spinning Rift Fiend roots the target (holds them in place, but doesn't stop them from using abilities) for as long as the rift fiend is present, and the Rift Fiends last for 10 seconds. That's a really long root. Morgana's roots last 2-3 seconds at a time and people constantly complain about how long her roots last. A 10 second root and the person may as well give up the moment they're hit. I'd suggest putting a set time limit on how long the roots last, and make it 1-2 seconds at most, and then make it so the target can't be rooted by the Rift Fiends again for a certain amount of time, maybe 5-6 seconds.

Finally, the R pretty much was covered by the comments I made on the other abilities. The empowered health is fine if the 1200 Health being displayed is his Level 18 base Health, but if 1200 health is his health at Level 1, that's way too much, and there's likely no need for the extra health boost. The AP boost is fine. As I said earlier, the rifts last too long as it is, a 20 second rift is way too much. If it's reduced to 3-5 seconds, maybe the empowered duration is 6-10 seconds, effectively doubling the rift time. Spawning 5 Rift Fiends from any open rifts that he passes through and simultaneously getting the Phase Walking boost from the rift is also way too much, especially with the roots and the possibility for him to pass through multiple times to spawn 5 fiends at a time. Maybe clarify that the rift fiends only spawn the first time he passes through any given rift.

But, as I said before, all of this is under the assumption that this character can be made fair. If there are good reasons why he has all of these effects on each of his abilities and why he's so OP, please at least explain it so everyone reading it can understand. However, make sure to do it in the context of the game. Tons of current champions could easily be gods if allowed to live up to their full potential, but the game weakens them into things that can be played against one another. So you're comparing your character to what are basically gods/super-strong warriors, so if your champion is particularly god-like compared to them, there needs to be a pretty good reason why.

Psychoaryama6/15/2018, 5:38:03 AM1 votes

Yeah, for base stats, you might want to go to this link, it has a list of every currently existing champion and their base stats and stat scaling with level, and you can order them alphabetically or in order of highest-to-lowest or lowest-to-highest of whatever stat you want to look at. It's generally a good strategy to find a champion very similar to the one that you're trying to make, so that you can see what their stats are scaled to. The same goes for scaling of things like damage and durations of various effects, try to find a champion whose abilities have similar effects to what you're trying to do, and decide whether you want to use the same numbers, slightly higher, or slightly lower.

I'll come back sometime tomorrow for more detailed suggestions, I'm too tired right now to keep everything straight in my head so I'd probably wind up making no sense, but for right now you could probably just look for champions with similar battle styles or abilities with similar effects to the kinds that you're working with. For stuns, I'd look at Veigar's E; for roots, I'd look at Morgana's Q; and for fears, I'd look at Fiddlesticks's Q; and for stats, I'd pretty much look for any squishy mage-type champion, because ideally something with as much damage potential as this champion would want to be squishy to balance things out. Every step along the way, imagine having to play against this guy. If you feel like you'd be constantly dying and hardly getting any hits in, you may want to decrease some numbers somewhere, or maybe take something out altogether.

Psychoaryama6/15/2018, 9:33:34 PM1 votes

Alright, I'm back.

So, let's start with the current possible combos for the abilities, so we know what we're really working with. It's sometimes hard to understand what a kit can really do until you put it all together.

No matter what, he'd start by activating R for the full combo, not so much for the health bonus, but for the AP boost. Then, if the target is far away/ranged, he'd start with his Q to open a rift, then use E to send a tentacle to grab the target, deal damage (boosted by R) and drag them back into the rift; the rift will then deal damage (boosted by R), stun the target, and add aether stacks to the target; then, while the target still has aether stacks and the target can't run away due to the stun, Dormammu walks over the rift, both becoming untargetable and summoning 5 fiends practically right on top of the target; the fiends will attack the target, one of them rooting the target for a full 10 seconds and the rest attacking them while they're immobilized, dealing damage (boosted by R's AP boost); meanwhile, Dormammu activates W on the target who can't get off of the rift, dealing damage (boosted by both R and the aether stacks); then, Dormammu either starts basic attacking the target who can't run away or backs off while the fiends do what they need to do. Then, since there's currently no limit to how many times Dormammu can summon these fiends, he'll just keep passing over the rift to summon more and more of them until the R times out, possibly being untargetable by the time it actually does time out. Then, depending on how long the abilities' cooldowns are, Dormammu may open another rift, stunning the target again and applying more aether, use a tentacle to grab the target and deal damage (boosted by aether) while making sure that the target stays on the rift, then uses W to deal even more damage. Meanwhile, if the target is a ranged champion, they likely can do nothing because all of their projectile attacks will be absorbed by the rift that they're currently standing on.

Basically, in this champion's current state, it would be ridiculous to have to fight this guy, and that's if you're a ranged champion fighting him. Melee champions would have absolutely no chance. But, that's not to say that this champion can't be worked with. Like I was saying in my first comment, we could make this workable by adjusting some numbers and adding some clarifications to the abilities.

Let's start with clarifications:

After Phase Walk breaks or times out, Dormammu should not be allowed to phase walk again for 10 seconds at the very least. This will make passing back and forth over his rift a bit more of a difficult choice: does he want to risk losing his phase walk now, or should he run while he still can? He can't just keep passing over it to Phase Walk, break, Phase, break, Phase, etc. while spamming Fiends while his R is up, and he can't just start Phase Walking and make it impossible for his enemy to hit him, then when 6 seconds are up he just walks over a rift again to Phase again.

Enemies that get stunned by the rift cannot be stunned by Dormammu's rifts for 5 seconds and cannot be stunned at all by the same rift twice. This one's especially important if Dormammu builds cooldown reduction to be able to spam rifts all over the place. With this clarification, spamming rifts won't stun the target multiple times, allowing a chance to get away. It also prevents them from having to worry about second stuns if they get stunned once, get off the rift, and then accidentally step on the same one again. It will still deal damage and will still place aether stacks, but they won't get stunned again.

Similarly, enemies rooted by the Fiends cannot be rooted again by fiends for 5 seconds after the root breaks. This avoids the main issue with the fiend spamming: one wave of fiends timing out and disappearing and the next wave immediately rooting the target again.

Enemies stunned by the rift are stunned for 0.7/0.9/1.1/1.3/1.5 seconds. Given everything else that happens with the rift, I'd say a somewhat shorter stun is fine. It also still leaves just enough time to get the previously-mentioned combo off if Dormammu works fast, but he does have to work fast, so the target still has a chance to get away.

Aether stacks should probably decay over time. Maybe every 5 seconds 1 aether stack disappears from a target (timer re-setting each time a new aether stack is placed on the target). This avoids a player getting stacked with aether all game just waiting for Dormammu to come by late game and blow their brains out with one ability, and forces Dormammu to move fast to take advantage of the damage boost.

The slowing effect of the "no rift" W only applies to the first basic attack. Even if others land on different champions, the slow only applies to the first basic attack. Further basic attacks do not refresh the duration of the slow.

Basic attacks used while the "no rift" W is active do not consume aether stacks or deal additional damage based on aether stacks.

The effect of the "no rift" W last for 10 seconds, before putting the ability on a cooldown. This effect can be longer since it entirely relies on Dormammu actually managing to basic attack his targets, which can take a while to get all 5 attacks off. However, it is important not to start the cooldown until after the effect ends. You don't want the player to get the ability back 5 seconds after it was used.

R's duration should probably be about 7 seconds. That gives plenty of time to do damage while not being TOO long.

Cooldowns: Q: 17 seconds W: 10/9/8/7/6 seconds E: 15/13.5/12/10.5/9 seconds R: 210 seconds Q needs a longer cooldown both because of all the effects that it has and because of the combos that it sets up. However, 20 seconds seems a bit too long for this. Somewhere around 17-18 seconds would be good. W doesn't need that long of a cooldown, and there would be no real point in having a "no rift open" effect if its cooldown was as long as or longer than that of the Q. E: Again, if its cooldown was as long as or longer than that of the Q, there would be no point in the "no rift open" effect. However, given the effects that it has, both with the rift open and without, you don't want to have it ready every 5-7 seconds. R: This is the ultimate, so it will naturally have a longer cooldown. I would have been willing to let the cooldown be shorter except for that fiend-summoning effect. That tipped it over from a 180-second ability to a 210, maybe even a 220.

Mana Costs: Q: 100 Mana W: 60 Mana E: 80 Mana R: 120 Mana As I said before, the Q is a very powerful ability, so naturally it would have a higher Mana cost. The E is a similarly powerful one since its main job is to make sure that the Q does its job, so it will also have a high Mana cost, though not as high as Q. W is fine having a lower cost, but it's still a strong ability, so it still needs a bit higher than 50 Mana. R, again, is the ultimate, and again, without the fiend-summoning effect I would have made it more like 100 mana, but with the fiends, it needs to be a bit more costly. I'd even say it could go up to 130 or 140 Mana, both for the fiends and the phase walking.

Now let's move on to effect adjustments/removals:

Dormammu can only summon one wave of 5 fiends from the first rift that he passes over while R is active. This avoids that issue with fiend spamming and continuous rooting. Most "pet"-summoning abilities don't summon that many pets at once anyways, so 5 fiends at once will definitely get that "summoning an army" idea across.

Fiends can only root their targets for a set amount of time (1-2 seconds). This avoids that 10-second root issue while still allowing some combos to be made.

Remove the "Fear" effect from the tentacle. It's already dragging the target onto a rift that stuns them, deals damage to them, and adds aether to them, and it's likely setting up for a fiend-spam trap. I think the fear is a little overkill.

If you do keep the "Fear" effect, reduce it to 1-2 seconds. That should be long enough to both get your point across and allow Dormammu to do what he needs to do. However, given all of the crowd-control he already has, I still say remove it entirely.

Rifts deal 50/65/80/95/110 (+30% AP) magic damage to enemies that step on it. Clarification: Stepping off of a rift and back onto it deals 45/55/65/75/85 (+30% AP) magic damage, rather than the previously mentioned 50/65/80/95/110 (+30% AP). Like you said, the rift is more just intended to allow the other abilities to work to their full potentials. The damage it deals is a bit less important, so it can be lower-damage.

Rifts should last only 4 seconds at most. Boosted by the R, they can last 8 seconds. Clarification: the boosted time limit remains even if R times out. I would have allowed 5 seconds if not for the effect that absorbs projectiles. Melee champions would already have a hard time with this champion, but with that protection from projectiles now ranged champions wouldn't be able to do anything either.

If the rifts didn't absorb projectiles, or if they could only absorb 1-2 projectiles before allowing others through, I'd be willing to reduce Q's cooldown to 15 seconds (and reduce cooldowns for W and E by 1 second each), and I'd allow the rifts to last 5 seconds (the boosted time would still be 8 seconds).

That's all I've got for now. Try to implement at least some of these changes, and we'll see where we need to go from there.

Psychoaryama6/20/2018, 5:07:28 AM1 votes

Sorry in advance if this sounds a little colder than you'd hoped it would. I'm a little tired right now, so I'm not exactly sure just how cruel I'm sounding in this comment. I don't mean anything against your concept or you, the entire point of this comment is that there are still things that can be improved. Any bluntness or coldness is not intended to be aggressive, offensive, or insulting, and I apologize if it ends up sounding that way.

{quoted}

Base Health: 1200 600

Good to see you adjusted the health. That's definitely a good starting point.

Passive: astral body - absorbing aether while out of combat increases movement speed and health regeneration by 4% scales with leveling.

Basic attacks fire waves of cosmic dust, leaving the target covered in aether max 10 stacks, can be consumed when hit by abilities to deal 2% ap per stack.

I'm honestly fine with this part, though I feel like the passive health regen shouldn't scale with level, or at least not by very much, just to keep it from being like Warmog's.

Q, Rift open, opens a Rift in a target line dealing 70/90/110/150/180+ *20% magic damage and stunning enemies that pass through, the Rift remains for 12 6 second absorbing all projectiles and leaves 4 stacks of aether on enemies that pass through.*5 sec cooldown, rift opens as the other closes otherwise ability goes into full CD 10 secs.

Passive, passing through a rift triggers phase walk for 6 secs allowing Demir to move through walls, becoming untargetable while phase walking.( can still be hit with magic projectiles and AP aoe, re-entering a rift while phased will brake phase).

As I've said before, that passive seems more like an effect of a rift, so it can probably just be stated as such. The only change to the wording for the "Passive" portion would be to take out the word "Passive", making it start with "Passing through a rift triggers..."

I appreciate the adjustment from a 12-second rift to 6 seconds. The damage would also be decent as a stand-alone effect of the rift.

However, please understand just how powerful this ability is and consider reducing the duration further, along with making other changes. The rift absorbs all projectiles AND stuns enemies that pass over it, and it fires in a line, making it very likely that there is little to no good way to get past it if it's placed perpendicular to the lane. Ranged champions can't fire over it, and both ranged and melee champions will have a difficult or near-impossible time getting past it since they'll be stunned if they try AND will take increased damage from the W that you'll likely spring on them once they're stunned because they'll have aether on them from the rift's effect. THEN Dormammu can walk over it to become both untargetable AND able to pass through walls, and while it breaks if he walks over it, you have still set no limit to how many times he can get Phase Walk from the same rift, so if he accidentally breaks Phase Walk, he can just walk over the rift again. And he is untargetable and able to pass through walls for a full 6 seconds; even Kayn only becomes ghosted (can still be targeted), and unless he has been out of combat for a while, it only lasts 1.5 seconds.

In general, this ability is just way too overloaded, and there's almost no possible counterplays. Once the rift is up, the enemy can't do anything so long as the rift remains in the way. Firing through it is useless, trying to walk through it stuns you, deals damage once for the rift, and will likely deal damage again because of the W, which will be enhanced by the aether stacks that were placed on the target. Meanwhile Dormammu and his allies can pass through it whenever they want and enjoy all the free protection. Even if the rift absorbs their projectiles as well, Dormammu's ranged allies can just walk through it when they have an attack ready, fire, and go back. And Dormammu gets even more free protection from the Phase Walk.

I do understand that this is a god-like character, so if that was what you wanted to stay true to, at least include an explanation about that somewhere in the concept. However, if you want this to be a fair, playable character in League, something has to go.

Here are the things I suggest:

  • Reducing the cooldown to 4 seconds at most, maybe 3
  • GREATLY reducing the damage, if not removing it; the damage should be almost negligible
  • Reducing Phase Walk to 3 seconds maximum
  • Making the stun INCREADIBLY short, I'd say 0.5 seconds at most given everything else that happens
  • I think we agreed that the aether stacks received from the rift should be kept down to 2 instead of the 4 that I'm still seeing
  • Breaking Phase Walk should make it impossible for Dormammu to Phase Walk again for a long duration (I'd say 10 seconds at least given all the protection the rift gives)
  • All of the negative effects received by a rift should not affect the same target more than once
  • A cooldown longer than 10 seconds, probably closer to 14-17 seconds. This is a VERY powerful ability, so he should not have it very often
  • Very high cost, probably around 100 mana. Again, very powerful, so there should be a high cost to it

Sorry for how much I feel this has to be nerfed, but it's just way too overloaded with effects for one ability. It's basically what an average champion would consider an Ult to be like, and even ults aren't typically this powerful. As I've said, if that's the point of this champion, that he's basically a god that cannot be messed with, then go ahead and leave it, but this is far too powerful for normal League, at least as it is right now.

W Rift burst; projects a beam from an open Rift Dealing 120 / 140 / 160 / 180/ 200+(40%ap damage), If no rifts are open it empowers the next 5 basic attacks ignoring armor and magic resistance and increasing damage value by +15 after each hit (eg: base attack 130 AP +15+15+15+15+15) and slowing target by 30%, *applies on hit effects.

This ability alone is okay, with the exception of that slow. The slow itself is fine, but as I believe I suggested before, make it so that only the FIRST attack applies the slow and the other attacks do NOT reset the duration of the slow.

E, Rift horror; summons a tentacle from the rift stretching towards target direction first pulling the target into the rift dealing *(only the damage from the openrift) 70/90/110/150/180, then fears target for 4 *.4/.8/1.2/1.6/2.0secs, if no rifts are open dimir summons a rift fiend for 10 secs which attacks nearby enemy units prioritizing aether marked champions 5sec CD.

Passive, if activated while phase walking brakes phase and fears targets with-in 300 unit.

Rift fiends: An octopod/humanoid creature; octopod heads with tentacles surrounding mouth, humanoid torso, single tentacle each arm and 3 each leg: deal 22% current ap as their bases damage by slashing at enime units in a 60°arc and spinning 360 ° towards nearest aether marked champions; hit by spinning fiends take no damage from it but are held in place by the fiend for the rest of its duration (if additional fiends are present / out number currently marked champions multiple fiends may target the same champion dealing damage as normal). these fiends are targetable and are defeated with 2 hits or 200+ damage.

  • As I said before, the Fiends should not be able to root a target for the full time that they exist. This is specifically because of the combo of using the Q to create a rift, E to drag a target into it and stun them, and then use R to create Fiends that spawn practically right on top of the target, rooting them for 10 seconds as you use your W to deal a much more powerful blow.
  • 10-second Fiends are fine, but the root itself should be explicitly limited to 2 seconds or less.
  • I also feel that the ability should have FAR longer than a 5-second cooldown. At the very least I'd suggest 10 seconds, and at most 15
  • I do appreciate you reducing the fear effect's duration as we had discussed, but as I said before, the stun from the Q makes it a little redundant unless the stun doesn't last very long (as I suggested).

R, Dominion; Demir absorbs aether from space doubling his size, increases his current max hp by 50% and increasing his ability power by 20%. Becoming empowered, his new surge of energy causes rifts to remain open for longer periods (20 sec) and spawns 5 fiends from any rift he exits phase walk passes through.

  • As I've said before, reduce the rift's duration by a LOT.
  • The health and ability power boosts are fine, though a bit dangerous given the other abilities.
  • As I've said before, he should only spawn 5 Rift Fiends from the first rift that he walks over, the first time that he walks over it.

Overall, that Q is the thing that needs the most work, just because of how overloaded it is. If the point is just how powerful he is, go ahead and say so in the original post so people at least understand that right off the bat. Everything else needs adjusting, but that's the biggest one.

Psychoaryama7/4/2018, 5:18:44 PM1 votes

Bumping because I bumped everyone else. Good luck :)