I'd like to reopen the discussion on Old Lady Champions

About 3 years ago, there was a thread about Old Lady Champions, and the point that there isn't one in the game yet. It got a lot of attention, notably because Meddler was posting in it. He made multiple statements, so I'll start with two of his biggest below.

He opened with this:

"**I think there are cool characters, who as part of their identity are also old ladies, that could be a good fit in League of Legends. I don't think 'League doesn't have one' is a sufficient argument by itself though, for any concept. League doesn't have a harpy for example, a classic monster from myth and other fantasy settings. That doesn't mean we should necessarily make one though. Whether or not a harpy allows us to tell new stories, offer new gameplay, create a different personality, show a distinct visual silhouette etc better than other concepts is what we're interested in. We'll always have more concepts than we'll be able to make, so comparing what an idea lets us do is really important. **

As far as old lady goes I think there's a lot that piece of background goes well with. If a character's physically old, but still able to compete with other champions, there's got to be something else impressive about them. That could be a wealth of knowledge and training, or massive willpower and resilience built up over a lifetime. They might move differently to many other champions, much more controlled, precise motions for example, rather than the more flashy speed/strength based combat of others. They'll almost certainly have a pretty different outlook on things from characters who are still pretty early on in their lives, who are still mastering their powers or figuring out their place in the world.

Age by itself though isn't a justification for making a character. It's a means to an end, not the end in and of itself, just like any other character trait.

Meddler also followed up with this:

"Not sure where you're getting the impression I'm arguing for swimsuit models as the way to make female champions. Over the last couple of years we've deliberately targeted a wider range of champions in many regards, which has included, but isn't limited to, body type and gender. Our female champions don't have as much variety as our male champions, and I personally feel that's been a missed opportunity in the past because it means we missed out on cool types of character, story, theme and gameplay opportunities.

'Old lady' though's not a fleshed out character, but a small part of an individual, in the same way that Swain isn't just 'old man'. Start talking about old female characters that are actual characters and we get somewhere really interesting. Examples of that I think are well done are M as portrayed by Judi Dench in various Bond films say, or the Dowager Countess in Downton Abbey as played by Maggie Smith. Flemeth from Dragon age as someone mentioned below's a great example to me from another fantasy setting, as are Granny Weatherwax/Nanny Ogg (Discworld).

He made some excellent points, first and foremost is that age isn't a justification for making a character by itself, and that they want to make a fleshed out character if they make one. My next point is a few notable champions made since this original post was made: A pair of "Harpies" - An "Old Lady" - Swain -

So let's discuss.

First and foremost, Meddler made some points that "harpy" was a good bounding point for a character, but questioned if we needed them in the game since they were an unused mythological beast design. Then Xayah and Rakan come along, bringing a pair of harpies to the game ... before any proper old woman.

Speaking of, there's then our "old lady," Camille. She kicked away quite a few of the tropes Meddler was worried about making - age isn't her defining feature (mainly because her age became irrelevant), and she's breaks the mold by being an assassin. However, she falls into Riot's old tropes of "we can make old ladies, take this beautiful, buxom woman here, except she's secretly 80-400-1000 years old - see! we made an old woman!" Camille is that trope. She's aristocratic, and proper, yes, but her delivery as a character who is old is about as lost to us as the elderliness of Lissandra or LeBlanc.

The thing is, Riot delivered to us proper harpies with personality, albeit somewhat one tone, before they delivered to us a proper elderly woman. They've shown to us that they are perfectly capable of developing characters with traits such as being a bird person that don't wholesale consume the personality and being of the character. Yet when it comes to elderly people, or even mildly disfigured people like Swain, Riot is unwilling to deliver us the old and the broken. I want to play some ancient, old beyond belief woman or some gnarled old man. Sure, I don't aspire to be that, but that type of character appeals to me. They remind me of things like my grandparents, characters like Doga and Unei in Final Fantasy, Granny Weatherwax in Discworld, Yubaba in Sprirted Away, Kreia in Knights of the Old Republic, Merlin of Arthurian legend, Gandalf from Lord of the Rings, and so forth - there is an extremely rich, vibrant selection of elderly characters in the media.

So I'd like to know why Riot, when presented with an opportunity to make an elderly character, resorts to "de-aging" and making them young, while claiming their elderliness. Camille is apparently 80, but her Hextech heart and body modifications have significantly slowed her aging process, according to the tooltips and her lore. It's a part of her lore that she no longer ages. So how are we to accept her as an elderly woman, when Riot has built in the caveat that she's not elderly? And then there's Riot's portrayal of the disfigured - Swain went from being crippled to losing an arm, which isn't really gone since he replaced it with a demon bird, much in the way that Gangplank simply replaced his arm with wood. So Riot, what gives here? Why are older people and disfigured people (aside from losing easily replaceable arms) so difficult for you to deliver? What is holding you back on giving us these characters that we've honestly never seen before in the game?

I mean, I get not wanting to fall into tropes, and I get Meddler's argument about not wanting to have that be all the character is - but at this point, a trope of an elderly woman who's only gag is how infinitely old they are would be entertaining, simply because we don't have it. It's been 3 years since the initial discussion about old lady characters in the game, and Riot has only delivered in giving us the harpies, which Meddler used to drive a point home about not having all the tropes and character designs in League, and a so-called "elderly" woman in Camille, who isn't elderly at all.

Give us old ladies and disfigured characters Riot. It doesn't have to be the core of their being, obviously, but at least deliver to us a character that has these qualities. I don't care if you make her Baba Yaga flying around the Rift in a mortar, whacking people with the pestle and cackling madly as she flies back to base. I don't care if it's Braum's mother limping about with a staff and throwing poros at her enemies, just give us someone who fits and can make us smile or cackle along with them.

If Urgot, as ugly and disgusting as he looks sometimes, can make it to glory in Worlds, then you can make a proper old lady character who can deliver that archetype in some for to us.