[REWORK IDEA] Kindred, the Eternal Hunters

Glory to God··64 votes·4,435 views

While Kindred is definitely not in an urgent need of a Gameplay Update, I feel like it wouldn't hurt if we were talking already about what Kindred should be.

I think most of us agree that Kindred could be so much more, and even I, despite how much I adore them, can admit that this is wasted potential, as it doesn't really feel like I'm playing two different entities, but Lamb and her pet Wolf.

So what this post is about is how an ideal Kindred kit would look like, at least in my mind, especially in thematic resonance.

First off, the passive: NEW: Two Ways to Die The player will start as Lamb, with Wolf assisting her, however the player can decide when the roles will change and Wolf will be in charge. The transformation has a static cooldown which decreases each time a Mark of the Kindred is proc'd. Lamb and Wolf have different abilities and different ways to mark their targets. The player knows when he can switch forms when the other part of the mask is glowing, then they can click on it to play as Wolf (the white part of the mask), respectively Lamb (the black part of the mask).

Form switch cooldown: 120 seconds (-10 per Mark of the Kindred stack, permanently, so at 12 stacks this passive will have no CD).

Mark of the Kindred Lamb and Wolf have different ways of marking their targets. Lamb can mark enemy champions (live), while Wolf can mark SPECIFIC jungle camps from the enemies' side of the map (in this case, the champions-to-be-marked bar is replaced with one with the jungle monsters). Dragons, the Rift Herald and Barons will be always marked, regardless of Kindred's current form, and it will not affect this passive's cooldown. Scuttle crab cannot be marked.

Lamb passive cooldown: 75 seconds after marking a target > 45 seconds after marking a target Cooldown per marked target: some minutes (?) > a minute Wolf passive cooldown 25 seconds after the marked target's death > 45 seconds after marking a target No cooldown per marked target.

Kindred's (both Lamb's and Wolf's) attack ranges are increased by 10 per stack.

NOTES: - Not only will this homogenize Mark of the Kindred as a passive, but it will also ditch out the RNG part of Kindred's kit.

  • The Two Ways to Die passive will use the same mechanic as Kayn's, but it can be used multiple times.

Lamb's kit:

Q: Dance of Arrows: stays the same

W: Wolf's Frenzy: Wolf's basic attacks scale with 50% of Kindred's bonus attack speed > Wolf gains 40%~100% bonus attack speed whenever he attacks a target three times in a row, stackable Wolf’s attacks reduce enemy monsters’ movement and attack speed > Wolf’s attacks reduce enemy monsters’ movement speed

UPDATED E: Embracing Death Passive: Lamb's basic attacks deal bonus physical damage against targets which face her.

Damage: 30(+10 per Mark of the Kindred stacks) + 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% of target’s current health

Active: Lamb cripples the enemy, slowing them by 50% for 1 second.

If Lamb manages to attack the target 3 times in 4 seconds, the target will receive bonus physical damage and be taunted for 1.25 seconds.

Damage: 80/100/120/140/160 (+150% Crit Chance) (+15%(+1% per 60 AD) of target’s missing health)

R: Lamb’s Respite: stays the same

Now, moving onto Wolf’s kit: Wolf's basic attack range is 100.

Q: Dance of Beast Wolf pounces on the enemy target, dealing physical damage. Wolf is then able to cast this ability two more times, but on different targets, in 3 seconds.

Damage: 80/110/140/170/200(+10 per Mark of the Kindred stack) (+40% AD) Target range: 400 CD: 9 after the first pounce

W: Lamb's Splendor Lamb jumps into the center of the target area, shooting an arrow at the closest enemy, dealing physical damage and marking them. Against the marked enemy, Wolf can cast Dance of Beast three times on that target. Lamb then continues attacking the target which Wolf is attacking, dealing magic damage, and reducing the monsters' attack speed on hit. Lamb gains 15%~30% (based on level) bonus attack speed each time Wolf casts an ability.

Physical damage (on ability cast): 8/8.5/9/9.5/10% (+1% per stack of Mark of the Kindred) of the target's current health Magic damage (on hit): 30/35/40/45/50 (+70% bonus AD) (+100% Crit Chance) Target range: 500 Area radius: 700 CD: 18/17/16/15/14

E: Mounting Dread Passive: Wolf's movement speed is increased against fleeing enemies. Movement speed increase: 20/22.5/25/27.5/30% (+5% per stack of Mark of the Kindred)

Active: Lamb cripples the enemy target, slowing them by 50% for 1 second. Wolf's third strike against the enemy will deal bonus physical damage and will make Wolf untargetable for 1.25 seconds.

Damage: 80/120/140/160/180 (+40% AD) (+15% of target's missing health)

R: Wolf's Damnation Wolf curses the ground under himself for 4 seconds. While inside the area, all units (including champions, minions and monsters; both allied and enemy) cannot be healed or shielded by any source. All units within the zone have their Health bars reduced down to 30/20/10% immediately after the curse ends.

Effect Radius: 500 Cooldown: 160/130/100

Now, discussion time.

Starting off, the passive is obviously inspired by Kayn's. It doesn't need a special key slot like other champions' transformations. Lamb and Wolf's abilities DO share the same Cooldowns. Lamb does have some consistency tweaks (W making wolf be scarier over time, E making enemies face their death), while there is a whole new kit for our baddest Wolf.

I think the major aspect this kit has and Kindred's current kit doesn't have is the SYMMETRIC OPPOSITES vibe. The lamb and the wolf. The gentle and the cruel.

Anyways, that's about what I've had in my head. I added in a pool to see what you guys think about it.

46 Comments

Legacy Hydralpha21 votes

I really like the idea of this, truly making Kindred the duo champion they were supposed to be. It could use tweaking on some parts, such as numbers and scalings. Wolf's ultimate seems very strong, being able to reduce the health bars of all targets in the zone is too powerful, and toxic (imagine if your teammate gets stuck in there). I'd change Wolf's ultimate, but the rest looks great.

Glory to God4 votes

To be honest Lamb's (and Bard ) ultimate can be just as game-screwing. Also, generally, Wolf will likely end up in the middle of the enemy team with his Q, so it's quite unlikely he would end up trolling his team. Either way I wanted it to feel like the complete opposite of Lamb's Respite. "Everyone lives" vs "Everyone dies" But I'm glad you like the idea

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I really really like your rework design! It's thematically on-point and seems balanced overall!

I do have a few concerns about it, and I've got some recommended tweaks that would address these concerns if you like them enough. It pertains to the ultimate, which is why I've put it into a response here instead of under the main post.

Wolf's Ultimate might be really strong if it manages to go off on enemies, guaranteeing making them go down to 10% HP is really powerful and I think a few tweaks might help preserve this idea while also making it more rewarding and fair.

Here is my complete recommended change:

#Wolf's Damnation: Casting Wolf's Damnation causes wolf to exude a curse for a period of time. On casting and periodically over the duration, Wolf adds enemies within range with a stack of damnation. Marked enemies cannot be healed and can only be shielded for up to X amount.

Each time wolf hits/damages an enemy they receive a stack of damnation, to a maximum of X stacks. At the end of Wolf's Damnation (when Wolf stops exuding the curse) Enemies with stacks of damnation take damage equal to X% (+ 1% for each stack of Mark of the Kindred) of their current HP for each stack of damnation.

And here is my reasoning:

Blocking shields might be good due to shield creep, but aside from that I'm kind of against having it prevent shields. Shielding is going to be the only counterplay that supports can use against this effect, and since shields are only temporary I think they shouldn't be completely prevented. Maybe it would work to impose a cap on how much shielding anybody marked by it can receive during the effect? Let me know what you think of this.

You would be able to use the ultimate to zone enemies away from an area, that's for sure, but maybe this could be altered to make it more interactive and also more fitting for Wolf's hunt thematic.

I think it would be better to make the effect follow Wolf as he moves, this way enemies have further incentive to run away from Wolf. Additionally, I think that the damage should stack up each time he hits/damages them (like grey health for Tahm Kench's E) and then be dealt at the end.

This way if they successfully peel him away and/or escape him then they can reduce or avoid the damage. But Wolf is rewarded for 'hunting down' his targets by chasing them.

Derpifier4 votes

I like the idea, but I feel that the passive could be EXTREMELY abused in fights. Can you use it in combat? Like, if one is at 10% HP, you can switch to have 100%? Does HP regen for the other when not in control? This kind of stuff should be stated, but other than that I think it's pretty good.Kindred

Glory to God7 votes

They share the same stats except range, so when you switch forms you don't have full HP or something similar. I was thinking of making it out of combat, and I actually can't think of many scenarios where transforming would benefit you too much.

TheGoomyGamer4 votes

I think wolf's Ult should be replaced by a pure damage attack - 'true death' for those that run (Pure damage is used by the fountain and ignores all effects). Also, the current Ult doesn't fit - I like the idea of symmetrical opposites, but an 'everybody dies' zone wouldnt be very good IMO.

morris13 votes

I like the shield and healing block part of Wolf's ult, seems to be the counter to shield spamming we all desperately want. The damage however should be changed to a normal health percentage (imagine getting CC'd in his ult and losing 90% of your HP) and apply to enemies only (the shield and healing part working on allies seems like enough of a counterbalance, see what I mentioned earlier but for allies).

Glory to God2 votes

I think it would be a bit unfair for enemies to have their HPs dropped down while Wolf's allies stay untouched, and the way it would work by my idea is more thematically resonant. If you think it's too weak, keep in mind that Wolf has a way to prevent enemies from killing him by using his E untargetability. If you think it's too strong, remember that he is putting himself, and maybe his allies in the same danger. I wanted to make it a high momentum ultimate, a risky game decider.

Zendrô3 votes

I really really like this. Of course there would need to be some tweaking for balance and whatnot, but overall I feel like you really captured and translated each of their individual themes very nicely.

*Edit: How about instead of making wolf untargetable after proc'ing the mark, the target is feared instead?

Glory to God2 votes

The fear would work excellently as well, I was thinking abut the untargetability so he could "combo" it with his ult (he's still damaged, but he can escape enemy attacks from executing him).

Zendrô1 votes

Also what if Wolf could only target his ult onto enemy champions so as to the chance of trolling your team. Similarly what would you say to giving back Lamb the ability to cast her ult on allies as well as herself? (I can't tell you how many times I could've saved someone if i could've ultied them from range)

*Edit: How about instead the ult still prevents shields and healing period, but instead of chunking everyone's health, what about if it just limited everyone's vision within the area to be within the circle like a huge Grave's smokescreen?

Scopé3 votes

I like the overall idea of making Wolf an actual part of Kindred's kit. I feel like Riot just unnecessarily wants to stick to their jungle marksman fantasy that appears not to be working since they had to cut Kindred's legs and give them a wheelchair to finally make this champion balanced (and actually decent for OTP's).

Mechanics of that "new" Kindred seem pretty difficult though, managing 2 forms in a different way than Kayn, Nidalee or Elise do doesn't seem like an easy thing to learn.

Overall I wish Kindred's potential for being and actual duo champion that people wouldn't be reluctant to pronounce "they" will be used at some point. The entire concept of two-faced-death is just too great to be wasted on something that is so difficult to put in a good spot for all the players.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

I love it! I do have a problem with two parts of it, however:

Wolf gaining AR - Wolf seems very much like a melee champion. Why should he gain range on his autos from their passive? I'd suggest something more along the lines of gaining damage per stack, and leave the range to Lamb. This not only makes logical sense, but it also enforces their thematic (as a melee, people want to run from Wolf (be it to escape or to kite, you're moving away), and he hunts down those who flee death. Lamb's range means that you want to close the gap, and Lamb executes those who embrace death).

Wolf's ultimate - Cutting down everyone's health in the area to 30/20/10% seems way too strong...and way too hard to use. I like the idea, but Kindred's ultimate is already hard enough with accidentally saving enemies - now imagine accidentally killing allies. However, I like the idea of it preventing healing and shielding - it forms a perfect counter to Lamb's ultimate. It gives them a very high skill cap (as you can still utterly screw over your team with it), but makes it a bit less punishing if you hit your team with it.

xScarfy3 votes

Pretty interesting concept! I would really love to see Kindred becoming an actual duo champion. How would you imagine them from a visual side? I think it would look kinda goofy to play as wolf with lamb running around you...I think wolf would need a real body, but he should stay as this floating spectral head when you play as lamb and only manifest with his complete body when you switch to wolf (and lamb switches to a floating spectral head than)

Glory to God1 votes

On the visual part I was thinking about Lamb looking around and preparing her bow or something like that; as for Wolf we could see more of his spectral body (he would still be floating, but we could at least see the upper part, especially the claws that he's mentioning in his quotes). Regarding his VFX, his E and his R would be black, in contrast of Lamb's white particles.

Arakadia2 votes

Wolf's ult seems a little too strong. For both trolling and in fights.

Even lambs isn't that strong.

Glory to God1 votes

What do you think that is too strong about his ultimate? Keep in mind that it's a double-edged sword that can ruin either team, depending on how they play around it. For example you can imagine if an enemy zac just 4-ulted your own team into your own ultimate.

CasualPeachSax2 votes

I like the idea although I think a duo champion like that would be better made alike Elise/Jayce/Nidalee switch form style. It's faster paced and more fun imo. Also some numbers might need tweaking here and there.

Zendrô1 votes

The only problem with this would be gibbing them of their ult.

V The Support V2 votes

A lot of these seem overloaded or just straight busted.

Wolf can mark SPECIFIC jungle camps from the enemies' side of the map (in this case, the champions-to-be-marked bar is replaced with one with the jungle monsters). Dragons, the Rift Herald and Barons will be always marked, regardless of Kindred's current form, and it will not affect this passive's cooldown.

Potential 3 marks on the map at once?

Kindred's (both Lamb's and Wolf's) attack ranges are increased by 10 per stack.

A melee form with infinite scaling attack range? How does this affect Lambs W?

W: Wolf's Frenzy: Wolf gains 40%~100% bonus attack speed whenever he attacks a target three times in a row, stackable Wolf’s attacks reduce enemy monsters’ movement speed

I like the idea, but the interaction of this with Lamb's proposed new E is cancer. Wolf attacks target in giant aoe gaining stacking attack speed steroids for attacking, which allow him to get more steroids, which make him attack faster ect. ect. So, the counter to this is to simply stay out of the giant AOE......

E: Embracing Death (4.)Passive: Lamb's basic attacks deal bonus physical damage against targets which face her. (4A.)Damage: 30(+10 per Mark of the Kindred stacks) + (4B.) 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% of target’s current health (1.)Active: Lamb cripples the enemy, slowing them by 50% for 1 second. (2.)If Lamb manages to attack the target 3 times in 4 seconds, the target will receive bonus physical damage and be (3.) taunted for 1.25 seconds. (2A.)Damage: 80/100/120/140/160 (+150% Crit Chance) (2B.)(+15%(+1% per 60 AD) of target’s missing health)

Let me get this right. (1.) A point click 50% slow that basically guarantees (2.) A bonus physical damage proc based off of BOTH, (2.A) a whopping 150% crit chance AS WELL AS (2.B) 15% (baseline) targets missing HP that scales with AD and WHICH ALSO PROCS
(3.) A 1.25 taunt that ALSO GUARANTEES (4.) At least 2 procs of bonus physical dmg which not only (4A.) scale infinitely with marks, BUT ALSO (4B.) Do a % of a target's current HP as well!!
(5.) A combo of which guarantees that the new W reaches full attack speed stacks.... if you're not already dead by then.

Honestly do you not see anything wrong with this??

I don't even need to get into Wolf's kit. (DAT R) I think the best way to fix these is just to choose one or the other as far as damage and/or perks in a single ability. It's a really good start.

Glory to God1 votes

Potential 3 marks on the map at once?

If you're talking about a scenario where Baron, Dragon and a champion or an enemy jungle camp are marked. sure, because a marked champion will be free once Lamb switches to Wolf and the other way around.

A melee form with infinite scaling attack range? How does this affect Lambs W?

Not...really infinite. It's more finite than Kindred's current version, it offers less attack range. And I'm not sure what you mean by Lamb's W, but it has a separate range.

I like the idea, but the interaction of this with Lamb's proposed new E is cancer. Wolf attacks target in giant aoe gaining stacking attack speed steroids for attacking, which allow him to get more steroids, which make him attack faster ect. ect. So, the counter to this is to simply stay out of the giant AOE......

It's more than stay in range. Wolf will always prioritize champions that Lamb is attacking, so if you keep switching targets it will basically be useless. And I'm not sure how this and Lamb's E interact with each other, they're pretty much two different things.

Let me get this right. (1.) A point click 50% slow that basically guarantees (2.) A bonus physical damage proc based off of BOTH, (2.A) a whopping 150% crit chance AS WELL AS (2.B) 15% (baseline) targets missing HP that scales with AD and WHICH ALSO PROCS (3.) A 1.25 taunt that ALSO GUARANTEES (4.) At least 2 procs of bonus physical dmg which not only (4A.) scale infinitely with marks, BUT ALSO (4B.) Do a % of a target's current HP as well!! (5.) A combo of which guarantees that the new W reaches full attack speed stacks.... if you're not already dead by then.

(1.) Yeah, it's the live version. You can see the whole world disrupting because of how broken it is. (2.) Again, I used pretty much the same scalings as the live version except for the E dealing 50% more damage to targets below a certain threshold. A bit fo a nerf in gact. (3.) Guarantees...on the third hit. And it's a taunt on a squishy champion, making it quite risky to use. I can lower the duration to 1 second if you want to. (4.) They're not two procs, it's one damage source. The damage is relatively small, basically a weaker version of her old passive that mostly helps her fight tanks. Again, the infinite stacking argument is invalid, you could say Veigar and Nasus are the most broken champions in the game since they have a similar mechanic?. (5.) 5 not found

I think you misunderstood some parts, hope I managed to light things up.

Neamean2 votes

So basically Wolf is becoming a Skirmisher but I think he lack what other Skirmisher have and that is a way to avoid just being blown up.

Fiora-Riposte Jax-Counter Strike Master Yi- Alpha Strike, Meditate Riven- Valor Tryndamere- Undying Rage Yasuo- Wind wall, way of the wanderer

heck even Vayne has Final Hour and Akali have Twilight Shroud who are pseudo skirmisher.

However though you can argue that he doesn't need away to avoid damage but it would be nice to have a way to survive.

xJekken2 votes

I love this idea! Good job mate*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

PokladnicaZla2 votes

I'm curious why Lamb (as an ADC) would have a taunt on her E? Wouldn't 1sec fear/flee be a better option?

Glory to God3 votes

Giving a hard CC to an adc could be a bit risky, but taunt is a special case. The only taunts in this game are owned by tanks (Galio Rammus Shen ), and I'm curious how would it work on a ranged, yet squishy champion. Also, I wanted it to be something that forces the enemy to face you (like, they are facing their own death), but also a way of helping you apply your E passive. Charm would work as well.

The Other Keller2 votes

I actually really like this.

I think the wolf ult like others have said is a tad overpowered. Thoughts on instead dropping people by a percentage rather than to a certain health percent. making it so your health is dropped by like 15%/23.5%/30% (as an example)

Also I like the idea of getting cc rather than wolf going untargetable, so a charm would be cool but I think thematically it would make more sense for Lamb to charm and wolf to fear if you decided that was a better avenue than what you imagined.

Either way you have some amazing ideas that would make kindred so much fun to play.

Sageace2 votes

Wolf's Damnation: Instead of completely removing the ability to heal and shield, have it apply Grievous Wounding and... a new debuff for reducing shields by 50% (Call it Dissipaiton?).

Blakiepug1 votes

I honestly don't want to see Riot reworking any of my favorite champions until they prove that they can revisit them and make follow-up changes when they don't go over well like with Rengar's and Zac's (and this doesn't mean nerf them into the ground).

DeadUnborn1 votes

I'm not voting because there is no option to say "The proposed kit isn't viable". A kit like this would be bound to have one of the transformations be way stronger than the other. You also run into the problem that you either have to build for lamb or wolf. If you need examples for why this wouldn't work, just look at jayce: 90% of the match he spends as a ranged champ

Emelie Cauchemar1 votes

No.

dual champs all have one thing in common. They're always broken or underpowered.

Additionally, that kit is so memey that nobody below diamond skill level would be able to reasonably play her.

TrueFace011 votes

On paper everything looks very confusing. Just the new marking system got me confused so you can't disagree with this concept. After all, it's just a concept so it's likely this won't be happening.

While i understand that dual champs might be broken or underpowered, at this state, kindred feels weak. Not only they brought back the Tank meta, but they removed the ability of kindred countering them. Not to mention that the new gameplay that kindred has does not fit their lore/theme. Having Lamb one shoting carries with just auto-attacks makes the wolf useless(not that he wasn't before). Even their E it's mostly lamb who does the job so you can't really call it an execute that is done by Wolf.

I play this kindred in diamond at a 66% winrate and it isn't a challenge for a 6300 ip champion. These 6300 ip champions should feel strong and hard to master. Right now, you can pick cho gath as a jungler and he does everything better than kindred except getting to targets or escaping and he is 1350 ip. The concept's kit just needs numbers changed a little bit.

Emelie Cauchemar1 votes

{quoted}

On paper everything looks very confusing. Just the new marking system got me confused so you can't disagree with this concept. After all, it's just a concept so it's likely this won't be happening.

While i understand that dual champs might be broken or underpowered, at this state, kindred feels weak. Not only they brought back the Tank meta, but they removed the ability of kindred countering them. Not to mention that the new gameplay that kindred has does not fit their lore/theme. Having Lamb one shoting carries with just auto-attacks makes the wolf useless(not that he wasn't before). Even their E it's mostly lamb who does the job so you can't really call it an execute that is done by Wolf.

I play this kindred in diamond at a 66% winrate and it isn't a challenge for a 6300 ip champion. These 6300 ip champions should feel strong and hard to master. Right now, you can pick cho gath as a jungler and he does everything better than kindred except getting to targets or escaping and he is 1350 ip. The concept's kit just needs numbers changed a little bit.

Are you sure it's not just because you're playing on EUNE? I already know a large chunk of your winrate came from climbing from low silver. I've also learned there's a big difference between servers such as EUNE, EUW, NA and LAN. I hit Diamond 3 mmr in LAN in 50 games. I would have hit it in 20 if I wasn't screwing around and dodging my promos intentionally.

Kindred also thrives in tank meta. So, I don't really know what you're trying to get at. Sejuani/Chogath/Maokai are honestly her easiest match ups because they're all very slow junglers.

I personally feel the reason her winrate isn't 54% + wr is because people that think they have the idea of what to do with her really don't and she brings about a stigma with your team since you're not playing shit like Lee Sin/ -insert random meta jungler-.

Additionally there's like 3 different current life/missing life/ invulnerability on a basic cool down/ + taunt in said kit. But nobody has asked the big question how you can expect your basic silver player to even be able to play that champ at a reasonable level. Even then once this kit is played at a remotely decent skill level it would be permabanned because of Nidalee syndrome in that she does way too much.

Example: If the match isn't going in your favor you can just be like "Fuck you." switch to whichever and go immediately counter the build they designed to counter you with 0 punishment. Every time you're about to go into a team fight you'd just lock in wolf and go suicide ult with a Zhonyas and pop it just before the ability goes off. By doing this, you will always have full health to everyone else's 10% life. Pop invulnerability and then collect penta kills. Then you can turn around win baron and become a ranged taunt bot while laying siege.

This kit design has 0 ability to be countered. The fact nobody actually thought about any of this while praising how nice and balanced the kit is honestly just proves my point in that kits like this can't be made because people below Plat 2 will just feed on them and in plat 2+ they're frankly over powered and permabanned. Nidalee had no CC, just good farming + macro + harass and was a menace in challenger. This is Nidalee on steroids and people actually want this lol.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

TrueFace011 votes

So you say EUNE is like LAN or something? xd There not much difference between EUNE and EUW as everybody says. Besides that, wasn't EU>NA? And i'm not the one who says that, most of EU players say it. You know nothing about my other accounts so you saying that my "big chunk of winrate comes from climbing silver" isn't actually right. They are like 75 games in silver+gold and the rest are plat+. But anyway, i'm not here to argue about my region or my games.

And no, kindred does not thrive in tank meta. Simply because tanks are broken in mid-late game. Yes, early game she can stomp every tank champ in the game, but saying she thrives in tank meta is ridiculous. To be honest, fighting Mao top, Cho Jg will just win the game for enemy team. Plus, who will stay in Wolf Frenzy long enough in order for wolf to deal damage? Oh yeah, even if they stay, he will not deal damage to tank, because they build MR too.

Tbh, i don't care about silver elo. Get good or stay in your damn elo, i don't want a boosted ape in my elo to give free lp to enemies.

You don't take into account your build, enemy team comp. You won't change, let's say, your build is % damage and they have 2-3 tanks. Why would you go crit items? You would have to sell your current items and you will get behind since you won't have enough items to compete with other team.

This concept is essentially Kayn, but you can change forms during a match. You will want to get red form Kayn if they have 2-3 tanks and blue form if they have lots of squishies. You can't determine if it's balanced or not if you didn't play it enough. It's just a concept, it will most likely never hit live servers or PBE.

Emelie Cauchemar1 votes

{quoted}

So you say EUNE is like LAN or something? xd There not much difference between EUNE and EUW as everybody says. Besides that, wasn't EU>NA? And i'm not the one who says that, most of EU players say it. You know nothing about my other accounts so you saying that my "big chunk of winrate comes from climbing silver" isn't actually right. They are like 75 games in silver+gold and the rest are plat+. But anyway, i'm not here to argue about my region or my games.

And no, kindred does not thrive in tank meta. Simply because tanks are broken in mid-late game. Yes, early game she can stomp every tank champ in the game, but saying she thrives in tank meta is ridiculous. To be honest, fighting Mao top, Cho Jg will just win the game for enemy team. Plus, who will stay in Wolf Frenzy long enough in order for wolf to deal damage? Oh yeah, even if they stay, he will not deal damage to tank, because they build MR too.

Tbh, i don't care about silver elo. Get good or stay in your damn elo, i don't want a boosted ape in my elo to give free lp to enemies.

You don't take into account your build, enemy team comp. You won't change, let's say, your build is % damage and they have 2-3 tanks. Why would you go crit items? You would have to sell your current items and you will get behind since you won't have enough items to compete with other team.

This concept is essentially Kayn, but you can change forms during a match. You will want to get red form Kayn if they have 2-3 tanks and blue form if they have lots of squishies. You can't determine if it's balanced or not if you didn't play it enough. It's just a concept, it will most likely never hit live servers or PBE.

I've seen EU first hand and wasn't entirely impressed :/. And everything I've read about EUNE pretty much confirms it's just LAN only in Europe.

I can though.

https://gyazo.com/c68a5adb1cfcc4d4eae916caeefb7a72

You played mostly Kindred from S5.

Kindred actually does thrive in tank meta though. Cho'gath and Mao are her easiest match ups. Additionally she's an ADC, and all attack speed heavy reliant ADCS thrive in a tank meta. That's why Kalista, Kogmaw, Tristana, Twitch are all also T1 ADCS right now.

You can not care about bronze/ silver all you want. Just know that those silver and bronze players are the only reason you even get to play this game because they're the ones that actually keep this game running, and if they can't have fun they'll stop playing.

Fütanari1 votes

in need of a gameplay update? She wasn't released that long ago.

DeathBot6661 votes

Honestly, I like your idea, my tweaks are as follows:

  1. I would like Kindred's passive to work more like a Quinn ult than a kayn passive. It would be cool, and really thematic for lamb to go into a teamfight, use her abilities to kite the enemy and help her team survive, and then once the enemy starts falling back being able to switch into wolf and chase down enemies, then sqitch back into kindred for the next fight, rather than form switching ahead of time and hoping your in the right form for which situation you're in.

  2. I don't get Wolf's ult. I get that it's the opposite to Lamb', and that's a really cool idea, but it seems really hard to pull off usefully. No one is going to stay in it to have their health insta-chunked after it's duration. The second it's been popped any non CC'd enemy is going to just leave it, rather than stay and fight on it. I would suggest having it mark the units it hits immediately, taking away their shielding and healing until the mark explodes, bringing them to 60%/50%/40% health.

Besides that it's a really good idea. You clearly put a lot of work into this, and it revitalizes one of my favorite thematic champions.

6FlagsFunnelCake1 votes

I absolutely love this. The thematic cohesion is phenomonal with this kit, and it really give the vibes of having a swift ranged hunter and a rabid chasing beast. Though I feel some parts should be slightly tweaked, since this kit, though cool, seems a bit difficult and complicated. Other than that though, I really hope Riot goes through with a big gameplay rework on Kindred, and that they go along the same road as this!

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Honestly, I question the decision to make Kindred a stance champion.

  1. Because the fantasy is for them to act in tandem; not trading master/slave status.
  2. Stance champions have historically been problematic, because they end up with more tools than everyone else. And one stance always ends up being stronger; which relegates the other to obscurity. Gnar being the exception thanks in large to his lack of choice.

Otherwise, your ideas don't look terrible.

TrueFace011 votes

The concept is really nice and it really gives wolf some credit, rather than just being lamb's companion.

What i'd change is i'd bring back lamb's %damage on autoattacks so it would be more like Kayn and give 2 different playstyles to Wolf and Lamb. We'd have the tank shredder, Lamb, and the squishy killer, Wolf. Just like Darkin Kayn and Shadow Assassin Kayn. Tho i do not know how will it work since you will want to have 1 build from the start meaning one of them will be useless later in the game(correct me if i'm wrong). I'd want an opinion on this.

What i'd change is the new passive. I'd make it so you can't change your form in middle of team fights so i'd give it like 12-8-6 seconds out of combat based on level(lvl 1-lvl 9-lvl 18).

Shahamut1 votes

Need clarification: Wolf is getting extra attack range for stacks?

Glory to God1 votes

Yup, Wolf will gain extra range on his basic attacks based on his stacks However, it probably won't be noticed until like 200+ range, (Rakan has 300 range) Edit: This means 20+ stacks which is pretty impossible to achieve in a matchmade game.

Shahamut1 votes

why not just give wolf the 125 attack range and then have something else scale with stacks on wolf?

Lamb- Ranged: Stacks range Wolf- Melee: Stacks AD?

Glory to God1 votes

Mostly because extra range will help wolf apply his E more easily, and because Passive AD stacking tends to be very snowbally and hard to balance (cough Rengar cough). I also wanted too keep some smoothness to the character

Shahamut1 votes

Rengars is dumb, cuz it's % increase which multiplies all his purchased AD. A flat AD gain would be easier to balance.

ThePikol1 votes
GodlyBane1 votes

but it wont be a nidalee-type thing will it? if that is the case, its not much of a duo champion, more of a nidalee add on

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