Boards›Concepts & Creations

[REWORK IDEA] Kindred, the Eternal Hunters

Glory to God·8/19/2017, 2:33:44 PM·64 votes·4,435 views

While Kindred is definitely not in an urgent need of a Gameplay Update, I feel like it wouldn't hurt if we were talking already about what Kindred should be.

I think most of us agree that Kindred could be so much more, and even I, despite how much I adore them, can admit that this is wasted potential, as it doesn't really feel like I'm playing two different entities, but Lamb and her pet Wolf.

So what this post is about is how an ideal Kindred kit would look like, at least in my mind, especially in thematic resonance.

First off, the passive: NEW: Two Ways to Die The player will start as Lamb, with Wolf assisting her, however the player can decide when the roles will change and Wolf will be in charge. The transformation has a static cooldown which decreases each time a Mark of the Kindred is proc'd. Lamb and Wolf have different abilities and different ways to mark their targets. The player knows when he can switch forms when the other part of the mask is glowing, then they can click on it to play as Wolf (the white part of the mask), respectively Lamb (the black part of the mask).

Form switch cooldown: 120 seconds (-10 per Mark of the Kindred stack, permanently, so at 12 stacks this passive will have no CD).

Mark of the Kindred Lamb and Wolf have different ways of marking their targets. Lamb can mark enemy champions (live), while Wolf can mark SPECIFIC jungle camps from the enemies' side of the map (in this case, the champions-to-be-marked bar is replaced with one with the jungle monsters). Dragons, the Rift Herald and Barons will be always marked, regardless of Kindred's current form, and it will not affect this passive's cooldown. Scuttle crab cannot be marked.

Lamb passive cooldown: 75 seconds after marking a target > 45 seconds after marking a target Cooldown per marked target: some minutes (?) > a minute Wolf passive cooldown 25 seconds after the marked target's death > 45 seconds after marking a target No cooldown per marked target.

Kindred's (both Lamb's and Wolf's) attack ranges are increased by 10 per stack.

NOTES: - Not only will this homogenize Mark of the Kindred as a passive, but it will also ditch out the RNG part of Kindred's kit.

  • The Two Ways to Die passive will use the same mechanic as Kayn's, but it can be used multiple times.

Lamb's kit:

Q: Dance of Arrows: stays the same

W: Wolf's Frenzy: Wolf's basic attacks scale with 50% of Kindred's bonus attack speed > Wolf gains 40%~100% bonus attack speed whenever he attacks a target three times in a row, stackable Wolf’s attacks reduce enemy monsters’ movement and attack speed > Wolf’s attacks reduce enemy monsters’ movement speed

UPDATED E: Embracing Death Passive: Lamb's basic attacks deal bonus physical damage against targets which face her.

Damage: 30(+10 per Mark of the Kindred stacks) + 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% of target’s current health

Active: Lamb cripples the enemy, slowing them by 50% for 1 second.

If Lamb manages to attack the target 3 times in 4 seconds, the target will receive bonus physical damage and be taunted for 1.25 seconds.

Damage: 80/100/120/140/160 (+150% Crit Chance) (+15%(+1% per 60 AD) of target’s missing health)

R: Lamb’s Respite: stays the same

Now, moving onto Wolf’s kit: Wolf's basic attack range is 100.

Q: Dance of Beast Wolf pounces on the enemy target, dealing physical damage. Wolf is then able to cast this ability two more times, but on different targets, in 3 seconds.

Damage: 80/110/140/170/200(+10 per Mark of the Kindred stack) (+40% AD) Target range: 400 CD: 9 after the first pounce

W: Lamb's Splendor Lamb jumps into the center of the target area, shooting an arrow at the closest enemy, dealing physical damage and marking them. Against the marked enemy, Wolf can cast Dance of Beast three times on that target. Lamb then continues attacking the target which Wolf is attacking, dealing magic damage, and reducing the monsters' attack speed on hit. Lamb gains 15%~30% (based on level) bonus attack speed each time Wolf casts an ability.

Physical damage (on ability cast): 8/8.5/9/9.5/10% (+1% per stack of Mark of the Kindred) of the target's current health Magic damage (on hit): 30/35/40/45/50 (+70% bonus AD) (+100% Crit Chance) Target range: 500 Area radius: 700 CD: 18/17/16/15/14

E: Mounting Dread Passive: Wolf's movement speed is increased against fleeing enemies. Movement speed increase: 20/22.5/25/27.5/30% (+5% per stack of Mark of the Kindred)

Active: Lamb cripples the enemy target, slowing them by 50% for 1 second. Wolf's third strike against the enemy will deal bonus physical damage and will make Wolf untargetable for 1.25 seconds.

Damage: 80/120/140/160/180 (+40% AD) (+15% of target's missing health)

R: Wolf's Damnation Wolf curses the ground under himself for 4 seconds. While inside the area, all units (including champions, minions and monsters; both allied and enemy) cannot be healed or shielded by any source. All units within the zone have their Health bars reduced down to 30/20/10% immediately after the curse ends.

Effect Radius: 500 Cooldown: 160/130/100

Now, discussion time.

Starting off, the passive is obviously inspired by Kayn's. It doesn't need a special key slot like other champions' transformations. Lamb and Wolf's abilities DO share the same Cooldowns. Lamb does have some consistency tweaks (W making wolf be scarier over time, E making enemies face their death), while there is a whole new kit for our baddest Wolf.

I think the major aspect this kit has and Kindred's current kit doesn't have is the SYMMETRIC OPPOSITES vibe. The lamb and the wolf. The gentle and the cruel.

Anyways, that's about what I've had in my head. I added in a pool to see what you guys think about it.

46 Comments

Legacy Hydralpha8/19/2017, 3:40:13 PM21 votes

I really like the idea of this, truly making Kindred the duo champion they were supposed to be. It could use tweaking on some parts, such as numbers and scalings. Wolf's ultimate seems very strong, being able to reduce the health bars of all targets in the zone is too powerful, and toxic (imagine if your teammate gets stuck in there). I'd change Wolf's ultimate, but the rest looks great.

TheGoomyGamer8/19/2017, 7:29:34 PM4 votes

I think wolf's Ult should be replaced by a pure damage attack - 'true death' for those that run (Pure damage is used by the fountain and ignores all effects). Also, the current Ult doesn't fit - I like the idea of symmetrical opposites, but an 'everybody dies' zone wouldnt be very good IMO.

Derpifier8/19/2017, 4:20:12 PM4 votes

I like the idea, but I feel that the passive could be EXTREMELY abused in fights. Can you use it in combat? Like, if one is at 10% HP, you can switch to have 100%? Does HP regen for the other when not in control? This kind of stuff should be stated, but other than that I think it's pretty good.Kindred

morris18/19/2017, 4:17:25 PM3 votes

I like the shield and healing block part of Wolf's ult, seems to be the counter to shield spamming we all desperately want. The damage however should be changed to a normal health percentage (imagine getting CC'd in his ult and losing 90% of your HP) and apply to enemies only (the shield and healing part working on allies seems like enough of a counterbalance, see what I mentioned earlier but for allies).

Zendrô8/19/2017, 6:55:17 PM3 votes

I really really like this. Of course there would need to be some tweaking for balance and whatnot, but overall I feel like you really captured and translated each of their individual themes very nicely.

*Edit: How about instead of making wolf untargetable after proc'ing the mark, the target is feared instead?

xScarfy8/20/2017, 10:13:26 AM3 votes

Pretty interesting concept! I would really love to see Kindred becoming an actual duo champion. How would you imagine them from a visual side? I think it would look kinda goofy to play as wolf with lamb running around you...I think wolf would need a real body, but he should stay as this floating spectral head when you play as lamb and only manifest with his complete body when you switch to wolf (and lamb switches to a floating spectral head than)

Scopé8/19/2017, 11:34:26 PM3 votes

I like the overall idea of making Wolf an actual part of Kindred's kit. I feel like Riot just unnecessarily wants to stick to their jungle marksman fantasy that appears not to be working since they had to cut Kindred's legs and give them a wheelchair to finally make this champion balanced (and actually decent for OTP's).

Mechanics of that "new" Kindred seem pretty difficult though, managing 2 forms in a different way than Kayn, Nidalee or Elise do doesn't seem like an easy thing to learn.

Overall I wish Kindred's potential for being and actual duo champion that people wouldn't be reluctant to pronounce "they" will be used at some point. The entire concept of two-faced-death is just too great to be wasted on something that is so difficult to put in a good spot for all the players.

DuskDaUmbreon8/20/2017, 12:31:17 AM3 votes

I love it! I do have a problem with two parts of it, however:

Wolf gaining AR - Wolf seems very much like a melee champion. Why should he gain range on his autos from their passive? I'd suggest something more along the lines of gaining damage per stack, and leave the range to Lamb. This not only makes logical sense, but it also enforces their thematic (as a melee, people want to run from Wolf (be it to escape or to kite, you're moving away), and he hunts down those who flee death. Lamb's range means that you want to close the gap, and Lamb executes those who embrace death).

Wolf's ultimate - Cutting down everyone's health in the area to 30/20/10% seems way too strong...and way too hard to use. I like the idea, but Kindred's ultimate is already hard enough with accidentally saving enemies - now imagine accidentally killing allies. However, I like the idea of it preventing healing and shielding - it forms a perfect counter to Lamb's ultimate. It gives them a very high skill cap (as you can still utterly screw over your team with it), but makes it a bit less punishing if you hit your team with it.

PokladnicaZla8/20/2017, 10:42:24 AM2 votes

I'm curious why Lamb (as an ADC) would have a taunt on her E? Wouldn't 1sec fear/flee be a better option?

Arakadia8/19/2017, 5:07:44 PM2 votes

Wolf's ult seems a little too strong. For both trolling and in fights.

Even lambs isn't that strong.

xJekken8/20/2017, 8:10:22 AM2 votes

I love this idea! Good job mate*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

Neamean8/19/2017, 9:33:10 PM2 votes

So basically Wolf is becoming a Skirmisher but I think he lack what other Skirmisher have and that is a way to avoid just being blown up.

Fiora-Riposte Jax-Counter Strike Master Yi- Alpha Strike, Meditate Riven- Valor Tryndamere- Undying Rage Yasuo- Wind wall, way of the wanderer

heck even Vayne has Final Hour and Akali have Twilight Shroud who are pseudo skirmisher.

However though you can argue that he doesn't need away to avoid damage but it would be nice to have a way to survive.

CasualPeachSax8/19/2017, 5:32:00 PM2 votes

I like the idea although I think a duo champion like that would be better made alike Elise/Jayce/Nidalee switch form style. It's faster paced and more fun imo. Also some numbers might need tweaking here and there.

V The Support V8/19/2017, 6:17:26 PM2 votes

A lot of these seem overloaded or just straight busted.

Wolf can mark SPECIFIC jungle camps from the enemies' side of the map (in this case, the champions-to-be-marked bar is replaced with one with the jungle monsters). Dragons, the Rift Herald and Barons will be always marked, regardless of Kindred's current form, and it will not affect this passive's cooldown.

Potential 3 marks on the map at once?

Kindred's (both Lamb's and Wolf's) attack ranges are increased by 10 per stack.

A melee form with infinite scaling attack range? How does this affect Lambs W?

W: Wolf's Frenzy: Wolf gains 40%~100% bonus attack speed whenever he attacks a target three times in a row, stackable Wolf’s attacks reduce enemy monsters’ movement speed

I like the idea, but the interaction of this with Lamb's proposed new E is cancer. Wolf attacks target in giant aoe gaining stacking attack speed steroids for attacking, which allow him to get more steroids, which make him attack faster ect. ect. So, the counter to this is to simply stay out of the giant AOE......

E: Embracing Death (4.)Passive: Lamb's basic attacks deal bonus physical damage against targets which face her. (4A.)Damage: 30(+10 per Mark of the Kindred stacks) + (4B.) 2/2.5/3/3.5/4% of target’s current health (1.)Active: Lamb cripples the enemy, slowing them by 50% for 1 second. (2.)If Lamb manages to attack the target 3 times in 4 seconds, the target will receive bonus physical damage and be (3.) taunted for 1.25 seconds. (2A.)Damage: 80/100/120/140/160 (+150% Crit Chance) (2B.)(+15%(+1% per 60 AD) of target’s missing health)

Let me get this right. (1.) A point click 50% slow that basically guarantees (2.) A bonus physical damage proc based off of BOTH, (2.A) a whopping 150% crit chance AS WELL AS (2.B) 15% (baseline) targets missing HP that scales with AD and WHICH ALSO PROCS
(3.) A 1.25 taunt that ALSO GUARANTEES (4.) At least 2 procs of bonus physical dmg which not only (4A.) scale infinitely with marks, BUT ALSO (4B.) Do a % of a target's current HP as well!!
(5.) A combo of which guarantees that the new W reaches full attack speed stacks.... if you're not already dead by then.

Honestly do you not see anything wrong with this??

I don't even need to get into Wolf's kit. (DAT R) I think the best way to fix these is just to choose one or the other as far as damage and/or perks in a single ability. It's a really good start.

Sageace8/20/2017, 3:38:18 PM2 votes

Wolf's Damnation: Instead of completely removing the ability to heal and shield, have it apply Grievous Wounding and... a new debuff for reducing shields by 50% (Call it Dissipaiton?).

The Other Keller8/20/2017, 2:18:06 PM2 votes

I actually really like this.

I think the wolf ult like others have said is a tad overpowered. Thoughts on instead dropping people by a percentage rather than to a certain health percent. making it so your health is dropped by like 15%/23.5%/30% (as an example)

Also I like the idea of getting cc rather than wolf going untargetable, so a charm would be cool but I think thematically it would make more sense for Lamb to charm and wolf to fear if you decided that was a better avenue than what you imagined.

Either way you have some amazing ideas that would make kindred so much fun to play.

GodlyBane8/24/2017, 8:42:41 AM1 votes

but it wont be a nidalee-type thing will it? if that is the case, its not much of a duo champion, more of a nidalee add on

Blakiepug8/19/2017, 6:47:39 PM1 votes

I honestly don't want to see Riot reworking any of my favorite champions until they prove that they can revisit them and make follow-up changes when they don't go over well like with Rengar's and Zac's (and this doesn't mean nerf them into the ground).

DeadUnborn8/19/2017, 7:18:58 PM1 votes

I'm not voting because there is no option to say "The proposed kit isn't viable". A kit like this would be bound to have one of the transformations be way stronger than the other. You also run into the problem that you either have to build for lamb or wolf. If you need examples for why this wouldn't work, just look at jayce: 90% of the match he spends as a ranged champ

Emelie Cauchemar8/19/2017, 8:41:23 PM1 votes

No.

dual champs all have one thing in common. They're always broken or underpowered.

Additionally, that kit is so memey that nobody below diamond skill level would be able to reasonably play her.

Fütanari8/19/2017, 9:37:56 PM1 votes

in need of a gameplay update? She wasn't released that long ago.

DeathBot6668/19/2017, 9:48:13 PM1 votes

Honestly, I like your idea, my tweaks are as follows:

  1. I would like Kindred's passive to work more like a Quinn ult than a kayn passive. It would be cool, and really thematic for lamb to go into a teamfight, use her abilities to kite the enemy and help her team survive, and then once the enemy starts falling back being able to switch into wolf and chase down enemies, then sqitch back into kindred for the next fight, rather than form switching ahead of time and hoping your in the right form for which situation you're in.

  2. I don't get Wolf's ult. I get that it's the opposite to Lamb', and that's a really cool idea, but it seems really hard to pull off usefully. No one is going to stay in it to have their health insta-chunked after it's duration. The second it's been popped any non CC'd enemy is going to just leave it, rather than stay and fight on it. I would suggest having it mark the units it hits immediately, taking away their shielding and healing until the mark explodes, bringing them to 60%/50%/40% health.

Besides that it's a really good idea. You clearly put a lot of work into this, and it revitalizes one of my favorite thematic champions.

6FlagsFunnelCake8/19/2017, 11:55:39 PM1 votes

I absolutely love this. The thematic cohesion is phenomonal with this kit, and it really give the vibes of having a swift ranged hunter and a rabid chasing beast. Though I feel some parts should be slightly tweaked, since this kit, though cool, seems a bit difficult and complicated. Other than that though, I really hope Riot goes through with a big gameplay rework on Kindred, and that they go along the same road as this!

Ariel the Cruel8/20/2017, 3:08:24 AM1 votes

Honestly, I question the decision to make Kindred a stance champion.

  1. Because the fantasy is for them to act in tandem; not trading master/slave status.
  2. Stance champions have historically been problematic, because they end up with more tools than everyone else. And one stance always ends up being stronger; which relegates the other to obscurity. Gnar being the exception thanks in large to his lack of choice.

Otherwise, your ideas don't look terrible.

TrueFace018/20/2017, 4:57:00 PM1 votes

The concept is really nice and it really gives wolf some credit, rather than just being lamb's companion.

What i'd change is i'd bring back lamb's %damage on autoattacks so it would be more like Kayn and give 2 different playstyles to Wolf and Lamb. We'd have the tank shredder, Lamb, and the squishy killer, Wolf. Just like Darkin Kayn and Shadow Assassin Kayn. Tho i do not know how will it work since you will want to have 1 build from the start meaning one of them will be useless later in the game(correct me if i'm wrong). I'd want an opinion on this.

What i'd change is the new passive. I'd make it so you can't change your form in middle of team fights so i'd give it like 12-8-6 seconds out of combat based on level(lvl 1-lvl 9-lvl 18).

Shahamut8/20/2017, 5:29:43 PM1 votes

Need clarification: Wolf is getting extra attack range for stacks?

ThePikol8/21/2017, 7:14:47 AM1 votes

I like it, t's quite similar to my idea I posted few months ago https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/vocXUAEo-my-kindred-rework-concept