Quick Swain rework idea

Barcid··1 votes·465 views

So this link here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/eQ0iY5jv-the-big-hypocrisy-of-the-military-general-fantasy

got me to thinking about a possible idea for Swain's rework. While there was also a suggestion to make Swain a straight were-raven, we already have a were-wolf, so... just seems like it'd drain some originality from both champs.

So can a military general champ work in this game, somebody who can both support but carry their own weight? A champ we'd actually call a carry-support. Well, Lux and Brand have been kind of bastardizing this concept for a while, with Xerath and Vel'koz having taken their own turns every now and again, so it's not impossible: what we'd need to do is balance out a rather difficult early game with a high-scaling late game, giving them some solid CC but not so much that it'll pale some other more traditional supports.

So mulling over some quick ideas in my head, I considered some possible abilities for him to interact with each other.

His passive would be his raven, Beatrice. Similar to Kindred, Swain gets a pop-up selection of enemy champs. Swain can select one of the enemy champs that is within a certain range and that Swain has sight of and instruct Beatrice to fly to them. Beatrice then flies about them for a limited duration (and for a limited amount of attacks) and giving off an aura on them that increases the damage that Swain and his allies do to the champion, as well as interacting with Swain's other abilities. This ability should have a moderate cooldown. This will require Swain's team to follow up on his marks to get anything out of them, but also give enemies a clear window where they should attack.

Swain's Q is a toggle-able ability that modifies his auto-attacks. Rather than a normal auto cast, Swain's autos become a steady stream of energy that deals magic damage and slows a bit as he maintains it but costs mana to fire, so it'd be similar to how Beatrice behaves right now but, well, Swain would do it instead. This ability would have a range shorter than his normal autos, but if attacking while Beatrice has marked an enemy, Beatrice will also fire a beam as well, dealing half the normal damage again and slowing by an increased amount (this damage would not be amplified by her aura). Swain should be made immobile while maintaining his fire to force the player to have to plan out a proper attacking position if they want to get their full damage out or, alternatively, if they don't want to get dog-piled.

Swain's W should be kept similar to how it is now - some kind of snare. It is actually probably the ability that takes the most consideration on where to put it right now in his kit, and besides would still fit nicely in this theoretical kit. Doesn't have to be a circle and doesn't necessarily have to be in an area.

Swain's E has been moved to his passive, so we'd need something new here. My idea would be a passive interaction with a slight buff - basically, Beatrice bewitches an ally (himself possibly as well) with a buff that heals them for an amount of their damage done for a limited time. During this time-frame, damage ticks done by the bewitched ally will recharge Beatrice faster. This allows Swain to basically sit back and have his ally do some work for him until he's able to go in for an assault himself.

Swain's current ultimate is nixed - I don't know why he's a were-raven, I'm pretty sure it was never covered, it always seemed kind of weird even for this world. What I was thinking instead was area control, and this is where the entire flock of ravens comes in. For Swain's ult, he commands his flock to take roost in a targeted area nearby for some amount of time, granting vision of this large area for him (these would both scale with level, and there is a small delay between ult activation and the roost effect). The enemy can see that an area is marked by the visual presence of Swain's ravens. If an enemy tarries too long in this area, they will be periodically swiped by Swain's ravens for some amount of damage. If multiple enemy champs are in the area, the frequency is increased by some amount but the target will be random each time. Enemy teams should be wary of this, as they will either have to make fights in this area quick or find a way around. Timing out this ability causes its cooldown to be drastically reduced. However, if Swain has Beatrice mark an enemy within the ravens' zone of control, the raven flock will swarm the targeted unit, drastically slowing them, grounding them, and doing quite a bit of damage. Units marked before entering the zone of control will be damaged for the full duration but the mark will time out as normal. Swain still maintains vision of the area during this time frame. The ult being used in this way will put it on full cooldown. This ability is Swain's strength as a tactician. If a good Swain is planning correctly, he can use this ability to ambush, control objectives, cut off escapes, force fights in his favor, any number of things a tactical minded person could plan out. But misusing it will cost him a very large chunk of his usefulness and force him to have to get in close if he wants to be of any more significant use to his team.

Yes, this is far from perfect, quite far from perfect. But what I do want to see in this game is a champion that a team would actually see as the shot-caller not just through the player but through the champion itself - I do want to see that military general that everyone sits waiting on his command for when the time is right. Swain might never make it to this role, but I would at least like some body to be it.

11 Comments

FlyingRoboticCow1 votes

Stay away from my waifu

Barcid1 votes

I'll get with Beatrice all I want, ya ho.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

as much as he needs a rework this probably won't be what it is taking him from a moderately skilled champion with 2 skill(?)shots back to a point and click drain tank is just no nononononononono no no

Barcid1 votes

Tactics is cunning, not skill.

For example, the most skilled swordsmen would be captains on the frontlines. A tactician shouldn't need to even lift a sword, nor be a good shot with an arrow or even a monk.

Skillshots don't mean you're good at planning. It means you're good with your reflexes, otherwise Ezreal is the best tactician in the game.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

so give him abilities he can play around. making him a point and click drain tank as stated before is not the way to make him more "tactical"

Barcid1 votes

His Q isn't his tactics. Timing his passive, knowing who should die first, where the enemy should be headed, what he needs control of and when, what he can gamble himself on - that's tactics. You're literally focusing on a single part of his kit that doesn't even mean he will drain, nor does it mean he will be straight up tanking - it's something he can do, sure. When a champion is established, some part of their identity is likely to stay intact during a rework, so yes he can make himself frontline to some degree.

But why would he? Placing the extra lifesteal on an ADC or other AP carry would let him keep dishing out his passive debuffs without risking dying. Using his crows as a safe-zone while he harasses from the side can let him be an assassin. Having his flock shred an enemy before they ever reach a fight can force an enemy to have to back or they'll be at an extreme disadvantage should the fight commence. His snare allows him to guarantee important catches if he hits it right or combos correctly. His entire kit is around making sure he is always several steps ahead. You clearly didn't take any time to actually read how the abilities would interact with one another or you'd have figured out being a drain tank is nothing but a drop in the water of what he can do.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

dude I wasn't talking about the passive, that was a bit strange but not my point making his q a toggled auto empower (point and click) and his e scaling from damage to healing basically means his laning phase goes like this (remember there are no allies in the laning phase unless you want to make him a support oddly enough) "I clik on u an now you are slow and drained forever good luck getting out bro" and that is drain tank sure he can buff his allies and choose someone to do more damage against, but that's not "tactics" that's just basic decision making everyone in the game has to go through being "oh who do I kill here" and making it a target like kindred is just a bit clunky, I'd have made it more like quinn where abilities will cause the bird to focus but again

quin did that first, riot's not gonna duplicate quinn's passive so it does work as it is now as a skill the q and w are the last things that need to be changed while his current ult exists but he kind of needs the sustain to output his lack of burst in his skills without just dying. he'd need his concept changed around and this kit you've given him is even more braindead than his old one.

think of it this way kayle can save her allies with her ult, but that doesn't mean she's complex or difficult to play or at all and remotely tactical, same goes for this swayne, if he can choose to buff allies but the rest of his kit is now just braindead he's not a tactical champion just because he can make a few more choices he was unable to before at the loss of choices he currently possesses.

Barcid1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toxic Control,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=Ukkf02jj,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-13T03:26:50.774+0000) So can a military general champ work in this game, somebody who can both support but carry their own weight? A champ we'd actually call a carry-support. Well, Lux and Brand have been kind of bastardizing this concept for a while, with Xerath and Vel'koz having taken their own turns every now and again, so it's not impossible: what we'd need to do is balance out a rather difficult early game with a high-scaling late game, giving them some solid CC but not so much that it'll pale some other more traditional supports.

So you're saying you didn't read the post then.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

I'm saying this is a rudimentary and unfinished as hell version of swayne. you can pretty it up with words but at the end of the day it's still a mostly point and click drain tank.

M00ndanc31 votes

not anything to do with his kit but lore wise swain is part vastayan which allows him to commune with birds and by using black magic that he has learned to pull out the full force of his vastayan powers.

Barcid1 votes

Oh. Didn't know that. That actually clears that confusion up.

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