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[Champion Concept] Elias, the Renegade Gunslinger

Blaquenwhyte··33 votes·6,942 views

#Background of the Concept

Yo, Boards viewers!

I'm in the middle of working on another, larger champion concept, but I put it aside (writer's block and all) for a bit and focused my imagination on something a bit different. With every champion I come up with, I make it a goal to at least attempt to fill a gap or niche that hasn't been filled in League yet, whether it be a lore gap, a mechanics gap, an aesthetic gap, you name it.

So what was my dastardly concept this time? Simple:

A champion that uses reloading and limited "bullets" as a mechanic.

#Elias, the Renegade Gunslinger

http://pre09.deviantart.net/6139/th/pre/i/2011/287/c/6/steampunk_gunslinger_by_loztvampir3-d4cucrv.png

(As ever, not my art--the artist's page is here--and not entirely what I imagined him to look like. He doesn't have a second pistol, and in my head, he looks a bit more grizzly--you know, rockin' the untamed scruffy beard and whatnot. Think steampunk cowboy.)

For those wondering, the intended pronunciation of his name is eh-LIE-us.

##Lore Summary

"The City of Progress lives up to its name; it doesn't slow down for anyone... well, except for Elias.

My police and and its enforcers have long been well-acquainted with the Renegade... and we've long since decided he wasn't worth the trouble to bring in. It's not for lack of trying, or for his lack of wayward destruction--oh, there's been more than enough of both. To put it simply, during multiple confrontations with members of our force, Elias described himself as a "free spirit." Well, "freedom" to him means "doing whatever he pleases." If that happens to mean blowing a bar and its patrons to hell and back over a lost bet... well, that's what he'll do. Rumors have it he used to live among uncivilized country folk and chased some poor bum who owed him money into the city and never went back... much to actual civilization's misfortune. And now, here we are.

So why, you ask, don't we bring him in? He's surely got his fair share of crimes to answer for. Well, truth be told, I don't think we could. For all of his disdain of government and authority, he knows how we operate far too well and has escape routes down to a science. We've only caught him red-handed a few times, and every time he sent more bullets flying toward my men on the field than seemed could possibly come from his six-shooter. There's no such thing as catching Elias by surprise; I'd wager there's no one in Valoran faster on the draw than he is. Any mission to bring him in would either end in his escape or see the blood of innocents and my police force spilled.

As is, his rampages and violence are largely kept to the underground, amidst the shady dealings we ourselves want to shut down, which means that, at least for now, Elias is unintentionally helping us. With that in mind, we're willing to turn the other cheek, because doing anything else would escalate the situation more than we're prepared for.

If he ever moves up in the world and starts threatening Piltover itself, we might have a real problem."

------------ Caitlyn , the Sheriff of Piltover

#Kit and Abilities

##As ever, I avoid numbers in my concepts because they can always be changed and don't define the kit. The ability icons are from Guild Wars 2; their icons are fantastic!

http://i.imgur.com/r8fysXh.png Passive | Full o' Lead Elias's resource is Bullets. He can have a maximum of six Bullets at a time; one Bullet is used for each auto attack and in his various abilities. When Elias runs out of Bullets, he must reload. While reloading, he gains a burst of movement speed but cannot auto attack and can only use Any Means Necessary (E).

When Elias has only one Bullet, he gains One in the Chamber, giving his abilities additional effects.

  • The reload/resource mechanic. He's essentially got six shots between auto attacks and certain ability usage, but then he's got to reload, which locks him out of everything save for his E. I avoid concrete numbers in my concepts because they're always malleable, but in my mind's eye, I see his reload lasting anywhere from ~2 to 3 seconds.

  • His One in the Chamber mechanism is to promote playing a bit fast-and-loose with his reloads. He and his enemies have to stay on their toes, because while he is vulnerable to being forced to auto attack or use an ability to reload at one Bullet, he also gains a significant boost with regards to how his abilities work.

  • RED ALERT: A marksman without mana?! Riot's historically had a major problem with Marksmen (read: ADCs) that aren't gated by an exhaustible resource. Energy, for example, regenerates too fast for it to be meaningfully low for extended periods of time, unlike, say, with Mana, which is distinctly low for long periods of time save for the odd skills, items, and buffs that help regenerate it at a faster rate. Mana champions are inherently easy to balance, and a champion that uses an inexhaustible resource runs the risk of being very oppressive in the resource-driven lane that is the bottom lane. Here's where Elias is different, though:

    • His resource is distinctly exhaustible. Save for clear power spikes while he has Fan the Hammer (W) up (which are noticeable and can be played around), he has very clear hills and valleys just based on how he works. Extended fights aren't his forte, especially with Fan the Hammer down. Also consider that, unlike Energy champions, he's forced to use his resource. Just auto attacking for minions uses Bullets, so whether he likes it or not, there will be times when he's forced into an awkward reload or beating a hasty retreat because he can't help running out of Bullets.

  • He differs from other Marksmen in having a very clear period of time in which his damage isn't sustained (unlike almost every Marksman). And unlike, say, being out of Mana or Energy, he can't even auto attack while he's reloading. He's pretty much dead in the water. And given his six-bullet cycle is short and therefore common enough to be abusable, I think it strikes a nice medium with being a resource that is meaningfully exhaustible if his enemies can abuse it properly.

  • Now, granted, he has tools to get away while he's reloading (if he didn't, he'd be too vulnerable so as to be rendered entirely useless). Reloading grants him movement speed to get in and out based on what his strategy is, and as we'll see when we get to his E, he's not totally helpless if he's stuck reloading in the middle of a fight. That said, if his opponents can abuse his downtimes and cooldowns properly, his reload mechanism definitely gives him some clear resource-based counterplay despite it not following quite the same pattern as the Mana-based trades we're familiar with in the bottom lane.

  • Small side note: henceforth, I may randomly refer to One in the Chamber as OitC just because it's a pain to type out every time.

http://i.imgur.com/J9RaICC.png Q | Haymaker Elias fires a quick shot in a line, consuming a Bullet, dealing physical damage to the first target hit, and shredding a percentage of their armor.

One in the Chamber: Haymaker now passes through enemies and slows all enemies hit.

  • Pretty simple line skillshot Q. It passively shreds armor because, I figured, he should be rewarded for hitting a shot and then have a period where his autos, limited though they are, enjoy a bit of a leg-up in damage.

  • The One in the Chamber bonus is simple as well. If he uses his last Bullet for a Q, it suddenly penetrates (instead of dealing damage to only the first target) and slows as well, whether that be to set up an escape or a chase (since it would proc a reload, he also gets to enjoy a reload's movement speed boost). This also becomes important for his ult, as we'll see later.

http://i.imgur.com/bcVCGAM.png W | Fan the Hammer Elias gains additional Attack Speed for a short while. If Elias runs out of Bullets during this time, he immediately reloads to six Bullets with no delay.

One in the Chamber: Auto attacks during this time also reduce the cooldown of Haymaker by a small amount.

  • As the trend seems to be lately with champions' W abilities, this one is a big one. It's a massive spike in power and consistency for a time, because it means he not only gains Attack Speed (for overall DPS) but also won't have to worry about reloading. Note that without reloading he doesn't get the movement speed, which means this is far more of a dueling/all-in based skill than anything.

  • Its One in the Chamber bonus facilitates this philosophy as well. With all the bullets he'll be firing off, it only makes sense that strategic use of the skill would also benefit him in other ways. If he's patient with his W usage, he also benefits from firing off more Qs for armor shreds and damage, as well as possible slows if used with One in the Chamber.

  • While Fan the Hammer is undoubtedly a very powerful skill because it essentially circumvents his main weakness, it only does so for a time. I would theorize Fan the Hammer to have quite a long cooldown (20+ seconds) just because it's central to his kit and playstyle, but also needs to have a clear cooldown period where you can go "alright, Elias's W is down, it's time to go hard." It's not too different from abusing Yasuo right after he uses a tornado, Azir in lane after he Qs, etc.

http://i.imgur.com/7VS75Fe.png E | Any Means Necessary Elias sweeps his leg around him, dealing physical damage and stunning nearby enemies. If he hits an enemy champion, Elias can reactivate Any Means Necessary to dash a small distance toward the cursor.

One in the Chamber: After dashing, Elias immediately reloads to six Bullets.

  • Recurring theme: his abilities are simple on the whole, and the complexity all comes in how, and when, you use them. This one? A simple AoE stun around himself for when he gets dived. It can be used while he's reloading as a protective measure, or if you're going mano a mano (relevant when we get to the ult), it can be used offensively as well.

  • His One in the Chamber bonus is interesting, in the sense that you might argue it gives him too many ways to reload which nullifies his whole "hill/valley/force reload so he's weak" counterplay. Well, keep in mind that in order to access the instant reload, he needs to be close. Like, melee range close. He needs to hit the stun to access the dash, which means he was either dived (in which case his E is meant to excel) or he went pretty damn hard for a marksman to find himself in melee range. It also opens up an array of cool combos that I think compliment his intended cowboy duelist style and kit as a whole. We'll go over some of those in a bit.

  • Relevant: In theory, you only get your One in the Chamber reload if you originally used Any Means Necessary with one Bullet, not when you dash. While I would love to make the reload tied to the dash instead of the initial activation (that is to say, you can cast your E at more than 1 Bullet, and so long as you activate the dash at 1 Bullet, you get the reload), it would take away a decent amount of the finesse of using the skill properly, as well as negate some cool things you can do with it.

http://i.imgur.com/MXEQOGe.png R | Ten Paces Elias targets an enemy champion with a health percentage similar to or greater than his own, creating a Standoff field in between him and his target.

As long as they remain in the zone, both Elias and the targeted champion can only be damaged by one another, can only be affected by each other's crowd control, and cannot be healed except by their own effects. While in the zone, Elias’s auto attacks deal bonus damage to his target based on their current health. If Elias kills his target or his target kills him, the victor gains a large burst of Movement Speed, temporary bonus Attack Damage, and regenerates a percentage of the health they lost during the Standoff. If either Elias or his target leaves the zone, it disappears and gives the one left the bonuses from winning. If the zone times out before either Elias or his target leave or kill one another, no bonuses are awarded to either side.

One in the Chamber: The cooldown of Fan the Hammer is immediately refreshed.

  • There's a lot to say about this one. Intended as a psuedo-replication of the old wild west pistol duels, this is a big ability. Elias essentially creates a Poppy ult zone where he and his target can only target and CC one another. That's right, no meddling from anyone else; it's you and them. This is significantly more balanced than a Poppy ult, though, because it's tied to a specific area (that Elias can't leave unless he wants to lose the bonuses), and it's a blanket application to both him and his target (i.e. his friends can't use it as a tool to engage on whoever he targets). Similarly, the benefits to winning are indiscriminate; Elias can easily lose his team a fight by losing a Standoff against the other ADC. There's also quite a bit of strategy to it: if you use this on a Vayne, she can Condemn you out for an easy win. Better play it careful.

  • In the same vein, do realize that there is such a thing as "strategically losing" the Standoff. If Elias runs into the enemy team to use his ultimate on the other ADC in the backline so he can isolate them from the fight, the ADC can quite easily walk out on purpose; sure, Elias gets the bonuses, but he's stranded in the middle of his opponents, ripe for CC. It, of course, works both ways: an enemy that attempts to dive him might find themselves at a very quick disadvantage when he turns Ten Paces on and unloads.

  • All that said, it's clearly meant to give Elias the advantage. His auto attacks deal more damage which gives him a clear leg-up, and dealing current health damage is what makes his ult strong even if he uses it on someone with more health than him. Also, remember when I said his Q's One in the Chamber bonus was relevant? Well, assuming this Standoff is happening in the middle of a teamfight, there will no doubt be people in the way of skillshots that he or his opponent could fire (they won't be damaged, but they can still get in the way). Well, assuming he's got Fan the Hammer (OitC bonus relevant), Elias is at no shortage of OitC-empowered Qs that pass through everything.

  • *Note: the reason I added the restriction of only being able to cast it on enemies as strong as him (or stronger) is because, if he could cast it on anyone, all you would ever see the ult used for is to target low health champions, burst them down, and get the bonuses for winning nearly instantly. That's not fun for the target (since Elias's ult makes it impossible for his target's team to help), and it really messed up the "duel" flavor I was going for with this skill. *

  • For those wondering what "similar" health percentage means, I would give it a ~5-10% gap compared to his own health (i.e. his target can have about 10% less health and still be a valid target) just for the sake of clarity, because if he was at 85% and couldn't cast it on an enemy that was at 84%, it would be absurdly difficult and tedious to use properly. Hell, ultimate ranks could even scale to widen the threshold.

  • I imagine the zone's center would be the point at the middle of the distance between Elias and his target. It's the same size no matter what, but the circle is drawn around wherever the center is between him and his target. If cast at max range, the zone would be big enough that Elias and his target would be near the edges. If cast at point-blank, there'd obviously be quite a bit of room.

##Playstyle

With this kit in mind, how is Elias intended to play?

Well, aside from the obvious AD Marksman tendencies, I think he's a lot more defined by the hills and valleys inherent to his playstyle and Bullet mechanics that a lot of other Marksmen. He sacrifices guaranteed sustained damage (because it relies on Fan the Hammer) because of his reloading, but he gains movement speed to get in and out on a dime.

Whenever Fan the Hammer is available, he becomes an immensely powerful duelist with crazy sustained damage. One in the Chamber ensures that, even when he's running low on ammo, he's never truly helpless (cooldowns notwithstanding). He's at his strongest at 1 and 6 Bullets, but every number other than that is a countdown to whether he's going to blow Fan the Hammer to negate his reload time or become vulnerable for a few seconds as he reloads.

He has two ways to ensure reloading won't cause problems, and how he uses them is integral to how he does in a fight. Fan the Hammer is a blanket buff to everything he does, but given it would be on a long cooldown in theory, he can't be blowing it on the smallest of fights lest his opponents casually disengage and then come back for more a few seconds later when their cooldowns are up.

His other means of resetting his ammo is using Any Means Necessary, but that's situational: he has to hit the stun to access the bonus reload on his dash, and that's assuming he even has One in the Chamber. If he uses Any Means Necessary to escape and Fan the Hammer's down, he's got six shots maximum, and he needs to make them count before he's totally dead in the water.

On that note, this leads me nicely into some pretty cool combos:

##Combos

All-In

  • Autos/Qs until one Bullet -> W -> R -> Q if available -> Auto + Q when available, E as convenient -> Re-cast W if it falls off -> Win Standoff, enjoy bonuses

  • This is the "go hard or go home" sequence of events. Arrive at one Bullet for One in the Chamber, use your W and then R immediately afterward (so it resets your W), and then enjoy your OitC-empowered W for more Qs, additional Attack Speed from your W, current health damage from your ult, and infinite reloads thanks to essentially two uses of Fan the Hammer. If/when you win the Standoff, either get out of dodge with the Movement Speed or go even harder with your newfound Attack Damage and heal.

Escape-from-Dive Combo

  • Auto/Q until one Bullet -> E -> Auto/Q, proccing a reload -> E again (dash) -> Escape/duel/all-in as necessary

  • This one is what I was talking about when I said it was important that the E's OitC reload was tied to the initial cast and not the dash. This way, you can use your E at one Bullet, use that Bullet, and then dash for an instant reload (and because you started reloading, you get the movement speed). If the One in the Chamber reload were tied to the dash, you wouldn't able to proc your reload and then dash (because obviously, if you were reloading, you have zero Bullets which means One in the Chamber is moot).

Trading There are a lot of ways to trade as Elias, just because of how many ways you can use your One in the Chamber. Here are a few:

  • Auto/Q until one Bullet -> W -> Q if available -> Auto + Q when available, E when convenient for the duration of the trade.

  • This is pretty much the simplest one. By utilizing your OitC-empowered W, you ensure quite a hefty amount of sustained damage as the trade goes on. Remember that using W with One in the Chamber doesn't use a Bullet, which means that if your Q is up, you might as well use it as your last Bullet to proc the extra slow (that's why it was in that order for the All-In as well).

  • Auto/Q until one Bullet -> Approach enemy (preferably through orbwalking in the the previous step) -> Escape-from-Dive combo -> W -> Unload

  • This one involves creative use of your E. You lose your OitC-empowered W to refresh your Q, but you gain a stun and therefore some unanswered damage (and since your E is AoE, you may very well stun multiple people if more than one is involved in the trade, as is common in bot lane). When they're stunned and after you've reloaded, you W for the Attack Speed. "Unload" is meant to apply auto/Qing as much as possible.

Sometimes trades don't always happen on your terms. Let's say they engage on you:

  • E -> E (dash) away -> Auto/Q until one Bullet (or run if not feasible) -> W -> Q if available -> Unload or run

  • The point of this one is to emphasize the fact that you won't always be able to use your E for fancy reloads; at its heart, it's just your escape tool. This means that creative use of your W and Q otherwise is key. In this case, Q doubles as your getaway (or dueling) tool, because by using it with One in the Chamber you get your slow as well. Keep in mind that, if you're not feeling the trade and don't think it will end well, you can skip the W entirely so that when you Q, it procs a reload and gives you the movement speed you need to get out of dodge.

#Flavor and Conclusion

Phew. That was a lot; you can take a deep breath, we made it to the end. That's about all I've got in terms of actual playstyle and how the concept comes together, so if that's all you want to read, more power to you, leave your thoughts if you so desire!

For those that don't mind reading more, the rest of the post will be some of the various quotes I came up with for Elias to give him that added bit of a personality. Again, if you don't want to read them, you don't have to. Until next time (I have a problem, so there will most likely be more)!

On champion select

  • "Live like every day's your last, because when it finally is, you'll feel right at home."

On entering the game

  • "Oh, this is lookin' like a good adventure."
  • "Well, you know what they say: if you find yourself in a hole, keep diggin'."
  • "Reminds me of some place called 'home.'"

Movement

  • "Move 'em out."
  • "Head 'em up."
  • "The day I walk away is the day someone outdraws me."
  • "Plenty of time to look tough when you're outta' sight."
  • "Don't go in if you don't know the way out."
  • "Don't bother nothin' that ain't botherin' you."
  • "No matter where you go, you'll find yourself there."
  • "Is there a pub 'round here?"
  • "Biggest troublemaker I know is in the mirror every mornin'."
  • "Stayin' quiet is a skill, but so is usin' a gun, and guns ain't quiet."
  • "Good judgment's from experience, but a whole lotta experience is from bad judgment."

Attacking

  • "I've been in tighter spots than this."
  • "Never corner somethin' meaner than you."
  • "Fill 'er up."
  • "Don't spoil my fun; lemme play with it."
  • "I reckon this is gonna hurt."
  • "We all got bits of crazy in us; some're bigger than others."
  • "Think quickly. Draw quicker."
  • "Clock still tickin'? Then I'm still kickin'."
  • "Bury'em six feet under."
  • "I think I saw a grave with their name on it."
  • "Sometimes you get. Sometimes you get got."
  • "My boot's got a long overdue meetin' with their faces."

Joke Elias reaches to his waist and quickdraws his pistol, throwing it up into the air in one swift motion, then letting it fall down directly back into its holster.

  • "Pops told me to never bite off more than I could chew. Well, he choked to death, so what's he know?"

  • "Nah, I'm not drunk. I only drink when I'm alone or with somebody."

  • "Don't get the wrong idea, you hear? I'm a responsible gun owner."

  • "Quickest way to double your money is to fold it over. Second quickest is to take it at gunpoint."

  • Near enemy Katarina or MissFortune

  • "You can kill me any day of the week."

  • "A redhead? No, that just ain't fair."

  • "Don't you ever want to stop killin' and just settle down? No? Yeah, me neither."

  • clears throat "I'll be in my bunk."

  • "If I could ever be said to have a weakness..." sigh

  • (Miss Fortune only) "Save the shock for when you shoot me, 'cause I'm feelin' the awe already."

  • **Near enemy Graves **

  • "That big ol' ugly gun... you compensatin' for somethin'?"

  • "What happened to the days where two fellas could sit down and smoke a few cigars?"

  • **Near Gragas **

  • "Yeah, bein' sober can be a real drag sometimes."

  • "That's the spirit! You mind passin' some of that my way?"

  • **Near enemy Jinx **

  • "You know, I take it back. Everyone should have a bit of crazy in'em, but you got more than enough for all of us."

  • "Plenty of theories about gettin' women to see sense. None of 'em work."

Taunt Elias empties all the bullets form his revolver and then puts one bullet in, points it toward the enemy, and spins the chamber.

  • "Tell me, you feelin' particularly lucky right now?"

  • "I get you're studyin' to be half-wit, but this here's a simple game."

  • "One-sixth the firepower is more'n enough for the likes of you."

  • "Tellin' a man to get lost and makin' him do it are two mighty different propositions. See to it you don't reach the second with me."

  • "Pops said to me to never miss a good chance to shut up, but I think it's better advice for you."

  • "When you give a man a lesson in violence, don't be surprised if they go and learn that lesson."

  • **Near enemy Caitlyn **

  • "I thought we had a fine arrangement, girl. You gonna ruin it here?"

  • "You keep off my back, and I won't put a bullet in yours."

  • **Near enemy Vi **

  • "Bringin' your fists to a gun fight ain't the best idea, girl."

  • "Didn't anyone ever tell you to not bring a Vi to any fight?"

I had more quotes written, but they were the typical quotes associated with using abilities and buying items, so I didn't feel the need to put them here.

Now we've reached the actual end of the post, so if you read this far, I admire your attention span/curiosity, so if you feel so inclined, I encourage you to leave your thoughts/criticisms!

45 Comments

gr8artist4 votes

I love the idea and kit and stuff. I'll admit I didn't read everything at the end, like the easter-egg taunts and such, but I think it's a great idea for a kit. I was actually working on something similar (a spell-slinger who loaded a sequence of different bullets into his gun) but I think yours is probably better as a whole.

My comments:

Passive - The reload time seems a little too long, especially at late game. I'd probably have it scale down with attack speed, and balance out so that it takes as long to reload as it does to fire two shots. So, essentially when other ADC's are shooting 8/8 you're shooting 6/8 (or 75%) as often as they are. A 2-3 second reload late game would be crippling (though W's workaround helps). I'd also add something about OitC dealing bonus damage (2x damage, or maybe having 100% crit chance) if the last bullet is used to auto attack. I think he also needs some way to manually reload between fights.

Q - I like this one as is.

W - I would have it fire a cone of bullets with the OitC proc, to give him some more AOE usefulness. Currently I feel like Q has the only really interesting OitC proc. The other 3 are all reset/CDR/atk-speed buffs; useful, sure, but boring IMO.

E - I don't think your OitC benefit is too good, but I think it's uninteresting. I'd have it instead up the damage of the kick/dash combo or something. He could trip them, then fire a shot as he dashes away.

R / Ult - I would have it buff all damage dealt, not just AD, so that he's not eliminating risk by targeting mages. I would also take out the "Health percentage similar to his own" and instead make it where the benefits increased if you targeted champs at a higher health percentage. For example (and hypothetical, probably-not-balanced numbers) the winner gets +20% movement speed, +20% damage, and heals for 40% of the damage taken during the duel. These values are increased by 1% for every 1% of health the defeated duelist had at the start of the duel. If you go in with full health against someone with 25% health, then your rewards will be 25/25/50%, and theirs will be 40/40/80%. If you're both at full health, then both of your rewards will be 40/40/80%. If you're both at low (25%) health, then both of your rewards will be 25/25/50%. This gives you an incentive to target higher-health enemies, and even a reward for targeting people with much more health than you. Lastly, you specify that they're immune to damage, CC, and healing from outside sources, but can the target of your duel attack/heal/CC your team-mates? I think they should be able to affect others, but I don't think you should be able to. There's a troubling situation where Elias targets the enemy support for an easy kill, no risk (because the damage increase might be irrelevant), plus he renders himself immune to enemy effects and prevents the support from helping their team... that would be terrifying, even without the victor's rewards.

Also, are there any items you'd want or expect to work well with this guy, other than the standard ADC inventory? item 3053 - Health and Shield to guarantee victory in ult duels, and I imagine Elias would have a higher than normal base attack damage (to compensate for reloading nerf to sustained AA damage) item 3071 - Lowered CDR to increase the chance that abilities are off cooldown when you get OitC. Also, everything this guy does is physical damage, right? Also, doubling-down on the armor shred from Q. item 3142 - Short burst of drastically increased damage? Sure, why not. Also more anti-armor tactics, and crit chance to make the most of your precious 6 shots. item 3065 - Because you're going to need MR, and if the ult is going to heal you for quite a bit then you might want to consider buffing that by a large percentage. Also, with the SV buff, it synergizes great with supports who can heal, allowing you to stay in the fight much longer (since you don't have MP, you want to get in and stay in for as long as possible).

Blaquenwhyte4 votes

Thanks for your input; I agree with a lot of what you said.

Regarding the passive: yeah, the thought of making his reload scale with Attack Speed definitely crossed my mind. I tried to stay away from affecting the reload itself and instead give him ways of circumventing it because it gives more importance to how he gets around it (W, E with OitC) which, by its nature, increases the importance of abusing when he actually has to reload. The problem I have with it is that I think that having both ways to reset his reload and make the reload itself shorter is really a case of having your cake and eating it too. You either increase the importance of each individual bullet usage by making him just have a fast reload, or you increase the importance of abusing a long reload time by giving him ways of circumventing the reload.

As for your other points regarding the passive, the OitC empowering auto attacks is also a great idea, but in practice it just seems a bit... overloaded. He's always going to hit One in the Chamber eventually, so by making his auto attack stronger you're essentially rewarding him for... well, being himself. His skills, at least, have cooldowns and can be strategically held for when he's at one Bullet, but auto attacks are always available and thus it would seem a bit overkill to give him OitC-empowered autos as well. As for reloading on his own, I totally understand, and it can be pretty easily implemented as "when he's out of combat for awhile, he automatically reloads back to six Bullets."

You've got a good point on the other OitC procs being "boring" as well. It's not that they lack power or usefulness, but I'd be inclined to agree that they lack the certain oomph that's conducive to satisfying gameplay. The problem I had to avoid was that, because he's at One in the Chamber constantly (he only needs 5 autos or Qs...), overloading the OitC bonuses introduces the very real problem of one being better than the others, or the kit as a whole being totally broken depending on how he uses OitC. By keeping them relatively simple, that problem is mostly avoided.

Your rework for the ultimate (regarding how the bonuses are applied based on health) is definitely a great idea, and something I considered but overlooked because I thought it would overcomplicate the ability too much (it's already pretty complex, adding that it scales based on health introduces a whole other mess of complexity). That said, you're very correct in that would promote being risky with your ultimates so that you can cash in on larger rewards; I hadn't thought of that.

As for how the CC is handled (letting your enemy CC your team), I can definitely see how that would be a problem but also consider what Elias is doing to himself when he targets someone. Sure, you can target their support, but suddenly you can only damage them, so your team loses a massive amount of damage on other priority targets like their carries/assassins. I feel like the opportunity cost for targeting their support to prevent them from CCing/disengaging is made up for by the fact that it makes it so you can only target them and not just use it as a means of preventing their disengage so you can move on to their carries.

Overall, things that I totally agree with and/or think are good ideas:

  • Reloading scaling based on Attack Speed is seeming like a better idea, though it would need to a pretty low scaling
  • Automatic reloads if he's been out of combat for a while
  • Ultimate providing flat damage rather than Attack Damage so AP champions don't get the short end of the stick against him
  • Ultimate scaling with the target/Elias's health to promote risky plays and decrease the abusability of ulting people who are at low health

Things I'd really need to think about/rebalance to see working:

  • The OitC bonuses of everything but his Q; retuning them to do additional things that the skill does not originally do/possibilities that it doesn't originally open can create a mess of balancing problems
  • Allowing his enemies to CC his team while they're in his ult

Oh, and as for the weapons, I hadn't really thought of it. Youmuu's seems like a pretty damn good item on him, yeah, but I imagine him otherwise focusing on typical AD items. The CDR on Black Cleaver would be nice, but the upfront damage boost of Last Whisper could definitely be better since he doesn't have particularly fast ways of stacking Cleaver, unlike, say, Garen with his E or Darius with his passive.

Since he has an AS boost in his kit and his autos count for more, big AD items like Infinity Edge and Bloodthirster would be important (think how Graves builds; he much prefers lots of AD over AS).

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

to tackle reloading while out of combat, you could have it on a timer.

example being if he's been out of combat for 8 seconds he starts reloading.

as an example

gr8artist1 votes

Optimized solution to make Elias more power/easy to play: Attack speed reduces reload time. Interesting solution to make Elias more strategic/harder to play: Dependence on reload workarounds. Perhaps there's a third option, having Elias' reload scale with CDR. So if he has a 2.5 second reload time and you build 40% CDR, he can reload in 1.5 seconds. I think I'm leaning more toward this than either of the other options. It allows players looking for a simple, caster-type playstyle to build a few items and significantly improve their offensive power, without letting them double-down on what are already great investments for the character (attack speed on an AD champ). Letting attack speed reduce reload time means that you'll just end up with more traditional ADC builds (with items like item 3153, item 3046, and item 3087). Another option is to have him reload shells one at a time, instead of all 6 at once. This way you could keep yourself near the OitC benefit if you want, while still getting occasional attacks to last-hit with. This would also make the reload workarounds more impressive, since they save time by reloading all rounds at once.

Maybe consider a double-tap mechanic for Fan the Hammer (every 2nd shot fires twice, so he shoots 3 bullets in the time it takes to shoot 2, or all 6 in the time it would take him to fire 4). This seems cool to me, thematically, but is probably redundant if you're giving him a large attack speed increase.

I'd also let his E dash reactivation proc if he stuns a minion or monster, so it's a little more useful against ranged champs. This also rewards tactical positioning and planning, instead of making the move ONLY useful as an escape from dives.

His ult should have a short delay, to allow enemies a chance to escape, but should get a much-lower CD if they get out of range before the field comes up (like how Cait's ult resets to like 5 seconds or so if the target dies before she fires). The reason for this is that you have a problematic (and exploitable) issue with Elias ulting people who are dashing, jumping, or otherwise already on the move, then getting free benefits as they leave the area. Imagine Elias catching Pantheon just as the big guy's jumping to another lane. Boop! Free buffs. By giving the ult a delay, you make it where opponents are fully aware of the impending situation and must consciously CHOOSE whether to run or not.

Can Elias and/or his target get buffs from their team during the firefight? Healing is a no-go, but what about shields or attack speed buffs?

And lastly, even with a flat percentage damage increase, Elias is relatively safe targeting supports and tanks (who would get practically no benefit from winning the duel). Consider giving the winner a reset on all basic abilities?

Summary of Suggestions Passive - Reload 1 at a time. Passive - Reload time scales with CDR. W - Double-tap on every 2nd shot. E - Can dash after hitting minions and monsters, not just champs. R - Delay before zone comes up. R - Clarify team-mate buffs on duelists. R - Buff for victorious supports and tanks.

These are intended as discussion points and ideas, rather than concrete suggestions.

KatCraft4 votes

The visual design and theme you have is basically a carbon copy Graves. Even the picture you posted apparently didn't look enough like Graves according to you so you may as well have posted his splash art.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

The similarities stop after "uses guns" and "is a rapscallion"

KatCraft3 votes

And a million superficial differences. "Renegade gunslinger" is basically "Graves the outlaw". They both have a steam punk western theme, apparently the op also wants the same grizzly beard and appearance, I am finding it very hard to think of ANY significant differences. Most of the quotes he has could be given to Graves and wouldn't be out of place.

dogtierplayer3 votes

Amazing concept. I love the reload system since it rewards smart play. 2-3 seconds seems a bit long. It doesn't seem that long to most people since it's seconds but a 2-3 second stun seems like ages in game. 1.5-1.8 seems like a more reasonable amount of time. I love the interactions and the attention to detail. Overall I would play this champion and enjoy mastering his resource management.

Rating: 9.5/10

Francisco Pires1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xilvers Homie,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=OlYOJAWj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-20T19:52:47.249+0000)

Amazing concept. I love the reload system since it rewards smart play. 2-3 seconds seems a bit long. It doesn't seem that long to most people since it's seconds but a 2-3 second stun seems like ages in game. 1.5-1.8 seems like a more reasonable amount of time. I love the interactions and the attention to detail. Overall I would play this champion and enjoy mastering his resource management.

Rating: 9.5/10

It's not that hard to manage it, just save E or W for when you have 1 bullet, he's pretty much resourceless ...

dogtierplayer1 votes

As an ADC waiting for 20 seconds just to be able to auto is pretty much a cripple. His E also only procs if you walk up to an enemy with one bullet (telling the enemy that you can't defend yourself) and use an almost melee AOE stun just to dash away and get 6 bullets. It's not easy to manage and his resource is unique, something I would like to see more of.

Blaquenwhyte1 votes

But that's where the counterplay against him comes in. Sure, he can function effectively without a resource with his W up, but what happens when it's down? What happens when he can't proc his E reload, either because it's on cooldown, he can't get in range, or he doesn't have One in the Chamber?

He can't always fight on his own terms. Enemies that abuse his downtimes and vulnerabilities related to not being able to proc an instant reload are the ones that beat him. Like I said in the post, it's no different from going in on an early game Yasuo after he uses his tornado, an Azir in lane after he uses Q, etc. Sure, there are things to nullify the way his resource works, but that's only out of necessity because any less would make him extremely inconsistent and underpowered.

Blaquenwhyte1 votes

The reason I went on the longer end for reloads is because his abilities that reset the reload are extremely powerful and essentially negate the need to manage his resource (other than using One in the Chamber, anyway). It makes him stronger during periods where can W or proc an instant reload with E, but significantly weaker when he's forced to reload normally; counterplay and all that.

You're right, though, 2-3 seconds is a pretty long time. I thought about making it start high and possibly scale downward with Attack Speed (which would also solve the problem of how awkwardly Attack Speed would scale with him, because it would make him proc reloads faster) so that in the late game, where fights can break out and end in seconds, he wouldn't be rendered entirely helpless by a reload, but I was also averse to that because it decreases the importance of managing his resource properly.

PT Waluigi3 votes

Intresting. The design didn't win me over, but the kit certainaly did.

Flintfall3 votes

Gotta say, I love looking through ammo based concepts, it's a really cool trope that League has yet to expand upon. I really, REALLY love how you pulled off the One in a Chamber mechanic, and my mind immediately went to the myriads of tactical decisions one would have to make in a fight.

Of course, if I could some small changes:

-For the E, have it so that when he dash reloads for One in a Chamber, the cooldown of the ability is increased.

  • The ultimate should make it that both champions lose all vision except for the Standoff field, since that's where their only interaction is anyway.

We obviously went in completely different directions regarding how to deal with an ammo based system, but it wouldn't be much of a resource if it was always refilled by the All Means Necessary (E) and Fan the Hammer (W). But like I said, we have different stances on the matter :P

Overall though, I'm really digging Elias (the quotes are especially nice).

Blaquenwhyte2 votes

Thanks! Yeah, your concept was linked elsewhere as a "look at how reloads were handled here," and the first thing I noticed is how differently we approached reloading. Elias has a way to negate his resource or refresh it (for a time, anyway), whereas you didn't provide any means of an instant reload (making them into a precious commodity), but you also provided means of making them shorter so that, given the right build, they wouldn't be as much of a hassle. They're resources in both cases, though Elias relies more on how he refreshes his resource, whereas Dane relies on how he uses his resource. There's an argument for both approaches :P

The E's increase in cooldown is something I totally understand, though I think it would be better handled by just making the cooldown start after he dashes (or after the window to dash expires), so that holding the dash for a reload doesn't affect how often he can use the ability.

I'm hesitant to make R affect vision. Vision control is an incredibly powerful thing to have; look no further than Nocturne or TF's ults, which some people use just for the vision mechanics. I think making the Standoff field restrict vision a la Graves's Smokescreen could mess with a person's ability to make an informed decision on whether to end it prematurely, stay inside to avoid the other team, etc.

Flintfall1 votes

Can definitely see your reasoning behind the ult, I just think that there might be a need for a stronger visual indicator for spells not affecting the duelers in the Standoff zone since the particle effects might be distracting (hard to rewire the need to dodge that Ashe arrow :P).

As for the E, makes sense. You didn't put down numbers, but overall I think there should be some form of drawback for using that as a reload.

GankLord2 votes

I didn't read the kit and I'm not going to. I want this character because Elias is my name but at the same time ... I don't want another adc ... I'm so conflicted.

ShinobisDemon2 votes

This is without question the best champion concept i've ever seen on the boards. I couldn't find a single flaw in your ability set. And i love the quotes.

Rito plz.

bump bump bump

LilStacey871 votes

Hey, just wanted to say that the idea you had to fill a niche was dope, also, some of your mechanics were neat too. But honestly, it would be right if I gave you all the praises, I seen this concept before from a well know community concept artist named Flintfall. Dane, the Silver Star

GreenLore1 votes

{quoted}

Hey, just wanted to say that the idea you had to fill a niche was dope,

I wouldn't say that since that is pretty much what Riot is doing. Every new champion represents a different thematical niche(kindred is death/yin-yang-themed,Tahm Kench is a devil who offers deals/businessman,Ekko a time traveler/street punk,bard is a shinto god/a bard,rek'sai is a tunnel monster,etc.)and they all come with new mechanics(marking enemies to die/adc-jungling,eating other champs,returning time,allowing passage through walls/mass-zhonyas,creating tunnels/tremorsense,etc.)

Blaquenwhyte1 votes

I'm certainly not the first (nor will I be the last) to try and make a reload-based champion, so I'm not surprised there's another concept that uses it as a mechanic. That said, the concept you linked is a fair bit different from mine.

Magikae1 votes

I must say amazing! I really love his unique playstyle! Did you make those icons yourself? My concepts need icons as well as a picture of the champion xD and I cant find anything that fits them.

Blaquenwhyte1 votes

No, the icons aren't mine (I wish I was even the least bit artistic). They're a few ability icons from Guild Wars 2.

GreenLore1 votes

I think the name could be a bit different considering that it is just one letter away from Elise,but otherwise it looks cool.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

you uh... you do know that "Elias" is a real name, right...?

GreenLore1 votes

I know,its just that Elise is a name thats already in the game and keeping names different enough is also important.

Riot was already worried that Braums name was too similar to Brand,but Elias sounds even more similar to Elise.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

I mean, we already have Cait and Cat, Fizz and fidd, et cetera et cetera.

it's a superficial thing.

GreenLore1 votes

You mean Caitlyn and Katarina or Fizz and Fiddlesticks?

There is a huge difference,between the short form of the name being similar and the full name being similar. There is literally just one letter difference between Elias and Elise

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

you're forgetting that Malzahar and Brand have nearly carbon-copy kits of each other, and that Lucian and Vayne have remarkable similarities with their rolls

don't forget that Fiora and Ekko have basically the same q.

for shame if you don't remember that too many champions to list have a standard 3-hit passive.

Elias is the name of a young, rougish man who does what's good regardless of the law. it fits the character quite a bit, regardless of whether or not spiderbitch has a (very loosely) similar name.

GreenLore1 votes

1.What have the kits to do with the names?

2.How are these even similar carbon copies?Malzahar summons pets,guides these with his E,has a delayed silence and a surpressing ult.Brand is about comboing his fire abilities,with barely any CC. Lucian has a dash that he can use quite often by autoattacking,while vayne has her roll for one enhanced auto attack. Fioras Q is a dash into a certain direction,while Ekkos Q is a ranged attack,I think you wanted to compare Sivirs and Ekkos Q,in which case the difference lies in the delay of Ekkos Q And overall individual similar abilities aren't bad as long as there are still some differences and as long as the kit has some other unique aspects.

3.Yeah many champs have 3 hit-passives,but these also have slight differences(gnars gives a big speedboost,vis breaks the armor,TKs enhances his abilities,Kindred has to mark the enemy first,etc.) and doesn't mean that the rest of the kit can't be unique.

4.Like i said the similarity isn't loosely.Elias and Elise sounds rather similar and you just have to replace the E with an A and move it one space. Riot was already worried about the names Braum and Brand being too similar,despite the fact that these names have 2 different letters.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Might think about having his maximum bullets increase with his ult ranks, six seems like a good number for lane but late game a teamfight could be over by the time he can reload, and if he builds any attack speed then those six bullets are gonna run out real fast. Doesn't have to be anything extreme, just 1 increase per rank.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

never more have I wanted a champion so bad, and I have my own champion ideas up on this site

delta38021 votes

Sounds really good. I'd change anytime he says pub to bar or "waterin' hole" though as I imagine he's not high falutin.

Tartoken1 votes

"I'd wager there's no one in Valoran faster on the draw than he is." ...Lucian

Leonidas Freedom2 votes

clearly the only solution to this conundrum is to have elias ult lucian so that they can find out.

Tartoken1 votes

I guess so...but will Elias ever join the League of Legends? That is the question that will end all questions...

NazZomLord1 votes

The perfect duelist, he literally challenges them to a duel is a more perfected form of Poppy and Fiora's ult.

turkeyBACON1 votes

My 2 cents: This concept is great but I'm not sure it quite fits LoL. A straight up gunslinger is a little too on the nose of a concept and it overlaps a bit too much with other champs. Graves is league's embodiment of old west renegade outlaw/gunslinger and he skews it by using a giant hextec revolver shotgun. Then you have Lucian, who uses light magic empowered guns to hunt and slay the undead. And Miss Fortune who's a pirate bounty hunter. Your guy is just a straight up cowboy. I'd look for a way to give him a twist; a unique flavor of his own.

That said I like his abilities a lot. But the Ult is problematic. It's overly complicated and doesn't feel like a duel in the same way Poppy's doesn't either. Restrictive targeting is inelegant and the obvious choice is to always go for the squishy support or mage that's out of position. You quickly kill them gaining all the buffs and not have to worry about repercussions if you can't. Restricting it to an area is also problematic because you have to deal with line of sight and fog of war issues. Do you always have sight on your target? Does your team? How do you account for ping and lag with the ability and movement commands or abilities? Can you cast it on a mid ult-ing nocturne and auto win the duel? If you cast the ability before you get hit by say a Vi' ult does her ult cancel or does it negate it completely. Are you okay with that type of interaction? It goes against the intent of the ability I think.

If I might make a different suggestion for the ult. Something a little simpler that gives a similar feel to a duel but allows Elias the possibility of playing mindgames with his enemy. How about something like:

Feeling Lucky? Elias calls out an enemy champ and conceals his ammo count for 5 seconds. If Elias' next auto attack crits against the target it deals twice the damage normally and grants Elias bonus movement and attack speed. If the attack doesn't crit then the attack misses and the enemy gains the bonus movement and speed their next auto attack against Elias will deal true damage. If Elias doesn't auto attack after 5 seconds then the ability refunds half the cooldown.

OitC: Feeling Lucky - Elias attack is a guaranteed crit on next attack.

Gunslinger0191 votes

this gunslinger approves

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

It's a pretty cool idea. the only thing I'd add is why does he have 2 pistols in the art? his skills seem to center around the idea of him using 1 pistol, and that would be more unique in LoL anyway

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

to quote OP: "this is not exactly what I had in mind. he has one pistol and is a bit gruffer."

I PREACHER I1 votes

Honestly I feel like the fact every ability has an opportunity to "Reload" kinda defeats the purpose of the really, really cool resource idea, I feel it wouldnt be hard to micro manage your W and just never run out of bullets, the reload time is kinda long too, that being said, this is an incredibly interesting concept that I would love to actually see in the game, have an upvote =)

Skelenth1 votes

This is a rather unexpected coincidence, because exactly for the Bullet Mechanic I created an NA Account, but first things first: I really like the Champion-Concept. Lore, Kit and everything. Awesome, wish my ideas could be that organized. Now to that comment above: EU-West Boards Yep, thats mine. It's german, but Google Translator ain't that bad. I actually wanted to create the NA-Account I'm using right now to repost that Champion on NA Boards, but I think that won't be necessary anymore. You did what I wanted to, just waaaaay better.

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