Veneficia the Ancient Witch

ZanyBugSushi··1 votes·616 views

You may not have heard of me, because I'm the guy who submits ideas once in a long long time and they are almost always taken by the developers, and never without giving me credit, which is fine. I was responsible for a few champions and their kits, the most recent being Kayn's concept of being a scythe wielder who can "possess" a target by jumping into their body... originally when I designed the scythe witch it was a witch of harrowing idea, taking pagan beliefs and witchcraft into consideration but they took that idea and went with Kayn... I also made a Kogmaw's Dad idea a long time ago but they used 90% of my idea and made it into Tahm Kench. You're welcome. I like coming up with cool ideas that are new and haven't tried before and I try to keep it as balanced as possible while still making it very spicy and flavorful to play.

Now within League of Legends there are many niches that are left open, like black people, or in this case, a niche that needs to be filled in League of an old woman, honestly, I've brought this up to Riot at various times but...

I think an old woman who is a witch is an idea that can easily be interesting and fit into League of Legends. I'm not too much of a lore hound but I think she could be a sort of "go to teacher" that other champions have secretly sought out to learn their abilities or unlock their hidden potential, but the fact that she is very much a dirty secret that is shunned and not talked about is due to her questionable methods and the fact that she's a witch. I also think it's likely that she could be not just an "old woman" but an ancient being that is as ageless as Lissandra or Ornn due to her magical abilities. Finally, as with witches in general, there's a few key ideas:

  1. A familiar
  2. A spell tome or grimoire that gives her more power.
  3. The ability to adapt to the situation by implementing some kind of transformative change. (think Maleficient turning into a Dragon, but in this case not necessarily turning this witch into a dragon).
  4. Potions
  5. Longer cooldowns but more impactful and meaningful abilities (I feel like League of Legends' interpretation of magic is this fast spell casting action packed way of viewing magic, which is nice but a battle mage doesn't need to cast multiple spells in your face to be considered a battlemage... a battlemage could cast a very powerful spell that has a long duration and a very impactful effect that could turn the tide of battle without it always revolving around dealing TONS of damage). This is basically an Old School way of looking at spells and casting and even adding in the channeling time, all fits into the idea of an old witch who views magic very differently than the younger spell casters who she views as young upstarts with some talent but not a deep enough understanding.

Based on that lore, what type of champion is she? What does an Old Witch bring to the table as a champion and what type of kit should she have? What role? I believe she should be an enchanter like Lulu, but more based around the fact that she's gained a deep understanding and mastery over magic, like Ryze over many millennia and her ability to manipulate magic makes her able to effectively counter or deal with threats of the magical variety. With this in mind she should be very good at CC, and disruption, and could bridge the gap between an enchanter and a battlemage. (If Ryze and Lulu shared a common ancient mentor or teacher and she was a cranky old witch). As I have pointed out, Magic and spells can have a longer cooldown but a much bigger or longer effect that can truly help in a fight and not all battlemages has to spam spells in order to be a battlemage. I want Veneficia to be an Old witch who can not only bring utility and CC, but also can be a bit of a threat herself if not handled properly.

Passive Ability: Spell Mastery: (Charm, Hex, or Curse). Toggle ability: (180/140/100 second cd for toggle and a 18/16/14 CD for ability proc), when this passive ability is on cooldown Veneficia may choose to switch to one of the options (she can only switch every 180/140/100 seconds depending on her level and switching is only allowed when it is on cooldown between procs because being able to switch between cc mid fight is a bit unfair and makes it too confusing to play against. She's not TF afterall).

  1. (Spell Mastery: Charm): When Veneficia chooses Spell Mastery Charm as her passive, every three spell casts grants her a Spell Charge which will be expended upon casting her next spell. When casting an ability with Spell Charge: Charm, enemies affected by her ability are charmed for 1.5 seconds.
  2. (Spell Mastery: Hex): When Veneficia chooses Spell Mastery Hex as her passive, every 4 auto attacks on the same target within the space of a few seconds (Like Braum passive) grants her a Spell Charge which will be expended upon her next spell. When casting an ability with Spell Charge: Hex, enemies affected by her ability are rooted for 1 second.
  3. (Spell Mastery: Curse): Spell Mastery: Curse is only available once Veneficia has reached level 6. When Veneficia chooses Spell Mastery Curse, every 5th time she takes damage from enemy champions within a space of 4 seconds, she gains a Spell Charge that may be spent on her next spell cast. When casting a spell with Spell Charge: Curse, enemy champions affected by her ability are silenced for 2 seconds.

Her entire kit should be focused around the choice between which Spell Mastery she focuses on, and making the appropriate switch depending on what the enemy team is doing. She's not meant to be able to counter every threat, because duh that'd be op, but I feel like an old witch should have a few tricks up her sleeves when dealing with young upstarts who think they have got talent. So based on what she's focusing on, it should change her playstyle a tiny bit to account for what she's trying to deal with.

Her Q Ability: Summon Familiar Casting/channeling time 6 seconds (with a cool animation of her drawing a summoning circle on the ground and doing a ritual) Cooldown: 18 seconds (Flat 18 second cooldown that begins once the familiar is killed.) The Familiar will have max hp equal to 1/3 of her max Hp + 3.6 AP ratio (the more AP she has the more hp her familiar has... if she has 100 AP, her familiar gets 360 bonus HP on top of having 1/3 of her Max Hp). The familiar is controllable by pressing Q the same way Shaco clone or Annie's Tibbers work by pressing R. The Familiar will cast a second instance of Veneficia's other abilities whenever Veneficia casts a spell, but does not count towards her passive Spell Mastery: Charm's stacks. Spells cast by the Familiar does apply the passive effects from Spell Charge abilities. The Familiar will also be able to deal magic damage as an auto attack that scales off of Veneficia's ability power. When Veneficia dies, her Familiar may still be controlled and does not die unless it is killed. Veneficia may still cast spells from her Familiar but may not use her Ultimate. When Veneficia respawns, the familiar will become uncontrollable and untargetable and fly across the map at great speed until it arrives next to Veneficia. The Familiar gains bonus HP Regen based on Veneficia's AP.

Depending on which passive Veneficia has chosen, the familiar will adopt a different form: Spell Mastery Charm: The Familiar will be in the shape of a cat Spell Mastery Hex: The Familiar will be in the shape of a toad Spell Mastery Curse: The Familiar will be in the shape of a raven (The visual differences in her familiar will help opposing players become aware which passive she has chosen and be able to play accordingly).

Her W Ability: Witch's Brew 20 second cooldown. ~insert Mana cost... doesn't really matter how much but should be pretty expensive to cast. Veneficia throws a skill shot ability into the air towards a location. Upon landing it breaks into a puddle on the ground. Allies affected gain a positive effect and enemies gain a negative effect based upon her Spell Mastery. The puddle lasts for 6 seconds. Spell Mastery Charm: Witch's Brew will give allies a small heal over time while standing inside the area. Enemies standing in the area will take damage over time. Spell Mastery Hex: Allies standing in the area will gain a shield. Enemies standing in the area will become inhibited and take damage once the puddle effect ends. Spell Mastery Curse: Allies standing in the area will gain additional Ap and AD based on Veneficia's AP. Enemies standing in the area will lose armor and magic resist 5/15/25/40/55 (+5 additional shred for every 100 AP).

Her E Ability: Spell Weaver's Song CD 16 For 10 seconds, Veneficia starts to chant in a sing song voice. The song she chooses is different based on which passive she has selected. Veneficia gains 400 attack range and she becomes a ranged champion. After every auto attack, Veneficia and her Familiar sends a spellbolt flying at the enemy that they just attacked. Damage of the spellbolt scales off of Veneficia's AP and applies spell effects. (Clarification: When using her E to proc her passive, the first instance of spellbolt that hits an enemy champion will apply the effect but will not proc further instances from further auto attacks. Also procing multiple spellbolts does not charge up Spell Mastery Charm, but instead using Spell Weaver's Song counts as 1 spell cast even if it doesn't hit any enemy champions).

Her R (ultimate): Lost Grimoire 180/160/120 CD Upon hitting level 6 and gaining her ultimate, Veneficia's Passive automatically goes on cooldown (allowing her to switch passives) and she gains Spell Mastery Curse as one of the options. Her ultimate will have different effects based upon her Spell Mastery choice.

Lost Grimoire of Spell Mastery Charm: Veneficia and her Familiar passively gains spell vamp. Upon activating Lost Grimoire, her Familiar becomes Untargetable, and she gains the ability to levitate and fly over terrain (possibly with a broom) for 8 seconds. All her abilities gain additional base damage and AP scaling during this effect.

Lost Grimoire of Spell Mastery Hex: Veneficia and her Familiar passively gains attack speed. Upon activating Lost Grimoire, her Familiar becomes bigger, is fully healed, and gains double the HP and damage Bonus for 8 seconds. All her abilities gain additional base damage and AP scaling during this effect.

Lost Grimoire of Spell Mastery Curse: Veneficia and her Familiar passively gains Tenacity. Upon activating Lost Grimoire, both Veneficia and her Familiar gains a significant amount of armor and magic resist. All her abilities gain additional base damage and AP scaling during this effect.

I hope you guys enjoy this idea. I'm sure Riot will make this champ but turn it into something else, but that's the fun of posting these ideas. But since Kayn's release I'm still not satisfied with League's diversity and this is my second attempt at making a Witch character, this time without the scythe. (For those of you wondering, I applied to work for Riot several times and submitted champion ideas for each of my applications, so that's also partially why I can say I was directly responsible for a few champions being made but never got the credit).

Finally, in case anyone will wonder. The choices for her passive are as follows:

  1. choosing Spell Mastery Charm is supposed to make her more of a mage that does damage and has some cc from charm through casting spells. choosing the right moment to use her passive charge is crucial for the extra cc effect from charm. This choice will make her decent against fighters in general and against team comps that have a lot of sustainable damage or dps. This should make her feel like a hybrid between Ryze and Ahri. Notably the untargetable familiar and allowing her to fly over walls is favorable in this mastery.
  2. Choosing Spell Mastery Hex is supposed to help her kite better and she may also use her familiar more as an option to give her more effective range. This emphasizes attack speed and really helps her deal with burst damage. She is also able to more actively apply her passive through the use of her auto attacks and again this helps her kite. She's not meant to be an ADC, just like how Azir is not an adc, but this is sort of the playstyle that gets emphasized if she chooses Hex as her Mastery. Notably the ability for her familiar to get huge and to become a real threat is favorable in this mastery.
  3. This choice is locked until hitting level 6 because of the all-in potential on her W if she chooses to be a support for her ADC in bot-lane. Also the Curse playstyle makes her more of a frontliner and makes her tanky and allows her to take hits for her allies to help her proc her passive. This is a great choice for team fighting and for making her become less of a squishy. Notably the ability to have tenacity and her overall increased tenacity will help her proc her passive in the middle of a team fight more often and be able to really silence and punish key targets.

Pros: She's got a really reliable kit when it comes to fighting with her E ability. She can kite and zone very well with her Familiar and her W. She doesn't have a complicated kit so she can be picked up by players easily but timing her passive procs correctly is a bit like Annie's stun and can become very effective when used correctly.

Cons: She's got long cooldowns, so she can be punished and harrassed when her abilities are on cooldown. She has no escapes and has to rely on her passive to engage or get away. Choosing which passive to use in the correct situations might not be readily apparent at first, but once you read through this kit or play this champ you will understand her choices.

"Most of life's problems can be dealt with by choosing the right companion to summon, the right potion to brew, the right song to sing, or the right book to read." Veneficia.

4 Comments

novac37211 votes

ok so, china wants their wall back.

that being said, i read through it and it sounds really cool, there's just a few issues:

charm seems like the best mastery. I mean it gives a heal, which isn't as good as a shield, but lets her charm instead of root. Curse seems interesting but hex is just a lesser choice...

the other issue is the familiar health. at lvl 1, assuming 600 HP (thats a lot) and 15AP via runes n stuff, with item 1052 start, you get a whopping 326 HP for the familiar. all the data I found puts melee minions at 455 HP at 00:00 time (when they spawn at least). unlike Yorick who makes plenty of ghouls and often, thats pretty fragile for the cooldown Q has.

I like the idea, thats just my 2 cents.

ZanyBugSushi1 votes

I think most pets in this game like Annie's Tibbers is used as something to take damage and soak and then die. But the familiar should feel like a very valuable tool, you can use it to cast your spells, you can move it around and be a mobile ward for your team, and you can use it to block skill shots, but I think it should not be so much HP that it's basically a second champion, if you think of it like ... Veneficia has her own HP pool PLUS an additional 1/3 hp bonus in the form of her familiar that is essentially a permanent creature that can be controlled and can cast spells like herself, then you see that the familiar is basically a free 33% hp that while you have it also adds damage. Familiar should be used to help aid in combat but not used as front line and isn't disposable, if you lose it you can't have it back for 24 seconds essentially. I think it's fair, because killing it is one of the ways to play against that mechanic. Tibbers has a duration and then Tibbers is gone. The familiar stays and is permanent and can heal based off of her AP, (higher AP makes the familiar regenerate faster), but that said making something super tanky and spammable and have a lot of HP makes it hard to deal with and prevents counter play... this is why Yorick has literally no counter...

Thanks for the feedback but if you think about it a 326 HP familiar at level one when most champs start with around 500 HP is a huge advantage... It would not be fair to have basically another champion ... 326 HP at level is basically half a champion. Now imagine what bot lane would look like with Veneficia and her Familiar as the support.

Finally Familiar HP has a 3.6 AP scaling (I think it's decent and here's why). If Veneficia tries to build for more AP damage, she herself will be very squishy, so if she goes for 1000 AP, her pet will have likely around 4k HP or more. 4K HP Familiar is going to tank for her and that's where a tanky Familiar is needed. In that case, Rod of Ages, Rylai's, and Deathcap will make Her pet tanky and apply a slow from Rylai's for example and that would be a pretty standard mage build and Charm is what she should choose.

Hex is confusing on paper but Hex is basically On hit spell + Spell Effects. Wits's End should be her first item for the synergy and power spike with her E, followed by Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Nashor's Tooth. She could also go full on hit and buy BoTRK and Runaan's Hurricane and her Familiar will also apply all her spell effects and cast her spells with her meaning essentially all her items's effects get applied twice (Yes, even Liandri's Torment... and yes double the Rylai's slow). Hex is extremely strong and should not be underestimated and it's on hit + spell effect synergy is likely double that of Teemo's and with all that attack speed you will likely proc the mini bind from her passive in the Hex Mastery at least once every 2 or 3 seconds... that's basically Ashe... but instead of a slow you can bind someone for 1 second every 5 autos (think Kennen's Passive but not a stun, just a bind). With her Ultimate's passive to give her more attack speed and with proper items she can be a monster to deal with that will constantly bind enemies for 1 second every few hits. That plus if you build something like Guinsoo's Rageblade or add even a little bit of HP or AP into the mix, the Familiar will gain double the scaling from AP for HP during her Ultimate's active making it actually be able to tank for 8 seconds and during that time it will proc items like Guinsoo's Rageblade, Wits' End, Black cleaver, Blade of the Ruined King, etc. etc. TWICE, once for each time Veneficia attacks and once for when the Familiar attacks.

Curse is going to turn her more into a tankier version and actually makes her an old hag who can stand in the front line and unleash pain directly. Curse is when you want to focus on HP and get both her and her Familiar loads of HP, she turns into a bit like a cross between a Vanguard like Braum or Thresh and a Enchanter like Janna or Lulu, being able to put out CC and also peel for her allies. Curse not only puts her in the frontlines but also let's her deal with key targets on the enemy team with key abilities like a mid lane carry or support who rely on their abilities and spells to be useful, she can silence then a solid 2 seconds and that can make a huge difference. That and just being tanky and still putting out a decent amount of damage with the help of her Familiar makes Curse a viable team fighting option and for when your team lacks frontline... Imagine picking a support who can adapt into whatever is needed, if the team is lacking in AP, go more AP and you have yourself a battlemage support with some Enchanter utility, build Attack speed or On Hit if your ADC is not doing well or if your team needs alternate forms of damage, or if your team lacks frontline, go Curse and build tanky. Her kit lets you decide how you want to play her and adapt a bit accordingly, it isn't OP because she can't do everything all at once, you have to choose, and yes you can still change forms and switch in the game, but likely your item build will be what dictates what form you will be using the most.

Hope this clarifies things.

novac37211 votes

{quoted}

I think most pets in this game like Annie's Tibbers is used as something to take damage and soak and then die. But the familiar should feel like a very valuable tool, you can use it to cast your spells, you can move it around and be a mobile ward for your team, and you can use it to block skill shots, but I think it should not be so much HP that it's basically a second champion, if you think of it like ... Veneficia has her own HP pool PLUS an additional 1/3 hp bonus in the form of her familiar that is essentially a permanent creature that can be controlled and can cast spells like herself, then you see that the familiar is basically a free 33% hp that while you have it also adds damage. Familiar should be used to help aid in combat but not used as front line and isn't disposable, if you lose it you can't have it back for 24 seconds essentially. I think it's fair, because killing it is one of the ways to play against that mechanic. Tibbers has a duration and then Tibbers is gone. The familiar stays and is permanent and can heal based off of her AP, (higher AP makes the familiar regenerate faster), but that said making something super tanky and spammable and have a lot of HP makes it hard to deal with and prevents counter play... this is why Yorick has literally no counter...

Thanks for the feedback but if you think about it a 326 HP familiar at level one when most champs start with around 500 HP is a huge advantage... It would not be fair to have basically another champion ... 326 HP at level is basically half a champion. Now imagine what bot lane would look like with Veneficia and her Familiar as the support.

Finally Familiar HP has a 3.6 AP scaling (I think it's decent and here's why). If Veneficia tries to build for more AP damage, she herself will be very squishy, so if she goes for 1000 AP, her pet will have likely around 4k HP or more. 4K HP Familiar is going to tank for her and that's where a tanky Familiar is needed. In that case, Rod of Ages, Rylai's, and Deathcap will make Her pet tanky and apply a slow from Rylai's for example and that would be a pretty standard mage build and Charm is what she should choose.

Hex is confusing on paper but Hex is basically On hit spell + Spell Effects. Wits's End should be her first item for the synergy and power spike with her E, followed by Rylai's Crystal Scepter and Nashor's Tooth. She could also go full on hit and buy BoTRK and Runaan's Hurricane and her Familiar will also apply all her spell effects and cast her spells with her meaning essentially all her items's effects get applied twice (Yes, even Liandri's Torment... and yes double the Rylai's slow). Hex is extremely strong and should not be underestimated and it's on hit + spell effect synergy is likely double that of Teemo's and with all that attack speed you will likely proc the mini bind from her passive in the Hex Mastery at least once every 2 or 3 seconds... that's basically Ashe... but instead of a slow you can bind someone for 1 second every 5 autos (think Kennen's Passive but not a stun, just a bind). With her Ultimate's passive to give her more attack speed and with proper items she can be a monster to deal with that will constantly bind enemies for 1 second every few hits. That plus if you build something like Guinsoo's Rageblade or add even a little bit of HP or AP into the mix, the Familiar will gain double the scaling from AP for HP during her Ultimate's active making it actually be able to tank for 8 seconds and during that time it will proc items like Guinsoo's Rageblade, Wits' End, Black cleaver, Blade of the Ruined King, etc. etc. TWICE, once for each time Veneficia attacks and once for when the Familiar attacks.

Curse is going to turn her more into a tankier version and actually makes her an old hag who can stand in the front line and unleash pain directly. Curse is when you want to focus on HP and get both her and her Familiar loads of HP, she turns into a bit like a cross between a Vanguard like Braum or Thresh and a Enchanter like Janna or Lulu, being able to put out CC and also peel for her allies. Curse not only puts her in the frontlines but also let's her deal with key targets on the enemy team with key abilities like a mid lane carry or support who rely on their abilities and spells to be useful, she can silence then a solid 2 seconds and that can make a huge difference. That and just being tanky and still putting out a decent amount of damage with the help of her Familiar makes Curse a viable team fighting option and for when your team lacks frontline... Imagine picking a support who can adapt into whatever is needed, if the team is lacking in AP, go more AP and you have yourself a battlemage support with some Enchanter utility, build Attack speed or On Hit if your ADC is not doing well or if your team needs alternate forms of damage, or if your team lacks frontline, go Curse and build tanky. Her kit lets you decide how you want to play her and adapt a bit accordingly, it isn't OP because she can't do everything all at once, you have to choose, and yes you can still change forms and switch in the game, but likely your item build will be what dictates what form you will be using the most.

Hope this clarifies things.

As far as spell mastery goes, the only downside is, unlike kayn, it can change how you setup runes and masteries.

The issue with the familiar isn't inherently the HP. It's that, if you channel to summon a familiar, either they attack you or they wait and nuke the familiar (not that it's a huge nuke when they only need to deal 326 HP. Keep in mind thats if the champ gets base 600 HP, know who has base 600s? Amumu , Alistar tanks). That wouldn't be that bad if she wasn't vulnerable during the casting too. an ability with that kind of risk has to be inherently worth it, like Velkoz R .

And sure, you could cast it by tower, but you risk losing farm and falling behind, just to use your kit. That seems poorly thought out. Keep in mind, people aren't gonna just let you do that freely.

That doesn't mean you're wrong about the HP, I mean it does scale well. But the ability needs a little more safety or reward. For example:

You could grant DR/immunuty to CC during the channel, to resist getting nuked or stunned while trying to cast.

Or

You could make the familiar charge to a location when it's summoned, doing some kind of CC. This would make it harder to instant kill as soon as it spawns, and would stop people from just waiting to nuke it from range.

Or

You increase the familiar's base HP.

Or

Give it Armor/MS/MR scaling

Or just make it straight up invulnerable for a few seconds on spawn, though that would be broken AF.

I mean I get the reasoning behind the HP not being huge, but you should be able to see the flaw I'm pointing out.

SSmotzer1 votes

You mean Lissandra? The ancient ice witch who brings out the potential in others through her iceborn magic?

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