warmog update ideas for frontline tanks and hp cost champs

VICKLIUS·10/16/2017, 3:33:15 AM·1 votes·319 views

warmogs is suppose to be for tanks, which are usually frontline, however with warmogs when combat starts you lose its passive and it just becomes hp, unless you are able to run away.

1st idea I had was too combat against tanks just building thornmail to win versus hp cost tanks "this champion is not effected by grievous wounds till at 35%hp or below"(which is same as when morrellos can inflict it).

my 2nd idea was to save hp for hp cost champions like catalyst because they don't have mana and they are typically the main ones getting this " your hp cost abilities don't cost hp until below 75%".

my 3rd idea was of how to keep its passive viable in combat "upon taking damage continue to restore 25% of your hp over 5 seconds for 5 seconds resets if damage has not been taken within 6 seconds (could even make this a shield) (would like too see minion damage to shut it off removed) ", while this idea is my least favorite I'm am kinda ok with it because if a champ that runs away they are going to heal anyway, but if they don't run it is like they are getting what they were suppose to get from the passive.

for each of these there could be a max hp requirement say like 3000, then 3250, then 3500, or turn these ideas into a new item.

plz vote and leave comments as to why you think any of these idea are bad or maybe even good.

4 Comments

ZT Xperimentor10/16/2017, 3:37:18 AM1 votes

Rather they bump it back up to 1k health and remove the health regeneration, force of nature already was already better for tanks who want to heal.

Kaeblen10/18/2017, 3:35:31 AM1 votes

The statement Riot put out on Warmog's (that i remember) is that it was an explicit anti-burst item. The way it does this is simple, so long as you stay out of combat for a short time, you can re-engage at full health. Even if some guy burst you down from 100% to 10%, all you have to do is wait, and you'll be able to (very quickly) re-engage as though nothing had happened. What Warmog's is NOT meant to do is give you a limitless supply of health. This is what some players want, but being realistic "limitless health" is not a healthy thing for other players. To this end, negating Greivous Wounds, or health costs on abilities really doesn't make sense. Making an item for those purposes makes sense, but making that the same item as the dedicated "anti burst" item does not.

now, lets talk about the problems with this premise.

First of all, it is not clear to players that this is the intent behind the item. Warmog's is the highest base health item in the game and everyone knows it. Given that that is the central identity of the item (that is, a big stat stick for tanks), declaring it "anti-burst" is not immediately intuitive.

Second: It gives a champion specific benefit to everyone. "Start every fight at 100% health" is a great thing, but it used to be that was a luxury for Garen and Master Yi (and Mundo). Most Champions have to worry over their starting health bar when they come out of the jungle, leave a skirmish, or consider what to do right after a teamfight, Baron, or dragon. Some few champions are created specifically to have 100% up time on their health, for new engaements. The current incarnation of Warmog's really negates all of this. (as do other items, which I also take grievance with)

Third, and quite obviously, other items do the same job better. item 3053 Is obviously created for the explicit intent of taking a heavy burst, and continuing to fight afterward. As far as "declared intent of design" this item almost entirely negates any validity behind calling Warmog's "the anti-burst item", as that throne has now been taken for another. item 3190 Intended for party-wide defense against AOE Burst effects. The reasonably large Magic resist bonus, as well as the fact that this item formerly granted an aura giving defensive stats to champions further support this intent to reduce burst and protect the team. The current meta does not strongly support such a concept, since AOE burst mages are not in favor. Even so, those extra hit points are helpful in just about any fight, so the item remains in favor. item 3401 item 2303 The reward for completing this item's quest line is a %HP shield for yourself, which refreshes out of combat. This shield comes back at roughly the same rate as hp regen and feels in game like a great way to prepare for re-engages. (pushing a minion wave, they often don't get through your shield at all)

So... what? So, Warmog's is not what Riot said it was? Well, yeah, but that's a bit of a problem for further design, isn't it? If we had the freedom to actually change the item, what are the options we have?

Well, we could make it just a Stat Stick again. I don't have any big qualms with this personally, but it feels wrong for some reason. I will take the opportunity to point out a similar stat stick item that was removed, though: Leviathan Leviathan was the hp version of Megai's Soulstealer. There actually used to be one for AD too. I thought they were great. In any case, Leviathan granted more bonus hp for each stack you acquired, and at maximum stacks, you got 10% damage reduction from all sources. I don't know if you know the lore behind Warmog's, but that kind of benefit seems to fit pretty well. You could also just make it a 1000hp stat stick with no passive or active. That works too.

Another Option is the "I refuse to die" item. There are a few variety of this concept, but none made for tanks--which is rather ironic. But what kind of benefit says "I refuse to die", without just being a stat stick, or being an anti burst, or being Guardian Angel? One way is to heal whenever an enemy dies--we have a few runes for that. One is Lifeline, from Hexdrinker/Maw of Moraltimus. I like this. It's close to what I'm looking for in terms of raw tenacity, but I don't want to copy it. We do have that one item, what was it? Spirit Visage. Increase all healing on yourself by some percentage. (Force of Nature had the same passive I think. I may be wrong) Probably shouldn't copy that. We only need one of those. Immunity to Greivous Wounds? Well, that's an idea, but it really only benefits regen tanks, and when you have an allied healer. It's an effect very similar to Spirit Visage, but less effective overall. For in combat, Spectre's Cowl has a very nice effect. Every time you take damage from a champion, start healing over time. A stronger version of this would make a lot of sense for Warmog's, both in gameplay and lore. The big problem is that you would then want to build out of the smaller item with similar passive. That doesn't work, because Warmog's has always been pure hp. Also, you really don't want to limit such a passive to being build only against AP.

Herrrm.mmm,..

Honestly, I'm not sure what a good option is. Even if someone deemed Warmog's to be 'unhealthy' or 'unsatisfying', I don't think it excessively so. Currently, it lets Tanks enjoy a luxury that adc's have, which frankly I don't think they ever ought to have... Warmog's will probably stay as-is until some other rework naturally extends to include it. I personally think the Spectre's Cowl idea is most interesting, but at the same time it probably isn't healthy if it's very strong.

I guess I should also throw in at the end here why removing hp costs from abilities is bad: Those costs are pretty central to balancing a champion. by the time late game comes around a high hp regen covers those costs just as well as negating the costs to begin with. Early game, you probably won't have the item, and are SUPPOSED to be worrying a lot more about costs. Finally, it doesn't make much sense to create an item that negates hp costs for abilities, when riot is slowly removing those costs from almost all champions anyways.