Isn't Blind Pick just a little outdated?

Project Xayah·6/4/2017, 10:52:17 AM·28 votes·1,841 views

What follows is a concept that I posted on the OCE boards, where it got some significant positive feedback (considering there's not as many board-goers there). This concept is targeted at some of the obvious flaws of Blind Pick and what new champion select experience could take it's place to resolve those issues. My hope is that posting it here on the NA boards it will get a lot more recognition, feedback (whether positive or negative) and, ideally, catch the eye of Riot and lead to a change for the better in-game.

You can find the original thread on the OCE boards via this link.

So Blind Pick has been the standard champion select experience since League was first launched, and it's done it's job fine (for the most part, anyway). However, it seems that these days it causes just a little more trouble than it's worth. Blind pick is, by it's very nature, a chaotic experience. From the chaos, the community developed the idea of "Call Order", to make it a little easier on everyone involved.

Call Order, however, has some pretty obvious flaws. It relies on the cooperation of 5 (more often than not) randomly matched individuals. It is influenced (to whatever small degree) by a given players reflexes, typing speed and internet quality. It is easily abuse-able by those known as "instalockers". At the end of the day, the champ select experience in Blind Pick games devolves into an argument over who got which position a bit too often.

What I want to propose is that Riot retire Blind Pick in favour of a superior (and less chaotic) champion select experience. Something that will allow all players to jump into a game and not get the impression that it will be an instant loss because "xXJacob360Xx" and "GaryTheFruitcake" argued over who got Mid (Note: any resemblance to actual players is completely coincidental).

So, what exactly am I proposing? Well, for now, lets call it "Blind Order" (if you can think of a better name, feel free to suggest it) Here's how it works:

|Team 1|-----|Order for Pick|-----|Team 2| |- |Player 1| |First Pick| |Player 6| |Player 2| |Second Pick| |Player 7| |Player 3| |Third Pick| |Player 8| |Player 4| |Forth Pick| |Player 9| |Player 5| |Fifth Pick| |Player 10|

Naturally (as with Blind Pick), Team 1 can't see Team 2's picks and vice versa. If you're looking to counterpick, then may the odds be ever in your favour.

It may look fairly simple on the surface, but it doesn't end there. To give every player a relatively equal opportunity to get first or second pick, they'll be more likely to be placed as first or second pick the more consecutive games they play as third, forth or fifth pick (similarly to how "autofill protection" works in ranked/draft).

So say, for arguments sake, we have 5 people who got randomly matched onto a team. Person 1 was second pick in their last game. Person 2 had first pick 2 games ago. Person 3 has been forth/fifth pick the last 4 games. Person 4 had second pick 2 games ago, and fifth pick last game. Person 5 has been first/second pick in 2 of their last 4 games.

The pick order, in this case (and based on the provided information), would go something like: Person 3 > Person 4 > Person 2 > Person 1 > Person 5

Advantages:

  • Requires no more available champions to access than Blind Pick (available to everyone).
  • No longer impacted by individual reflexes, typing speed and internet connection.
  • Keeps true to the "blind" nature of the more casual queue types.
  • Ideally reduces toxicity in champion select. Disadvantages:
  • Longer champion select process.
  • Wont be easy to convert the system over to a new "standard" pick type (basically, a lot of effort on Riot's part).

EDIT: So there's been a lot of discussion, and a few alternative concepts, which is good! This thread isn't just about my concept, it's about working together as a community to address some issues with one of the main queues. Ideally, we'd be able to come up with something that addresses the issues, pleases as many players as possible and that Riot would consider implementing. With that said, I'll be trying to add as many suggestions to the main post as possible, starting with something from DrCyanide.

When queuing, you order the 5 positions according to your preference plus a 6th Fill. This order will be saved so you don't have do re-enter it every single time you queue up (Improvement over Draft Queue!). Matchmaking completely ignores these preferences! Matchmaking works the same way it does now, trying to find a group of players with similar MMR. After Matchmaking has found a group, the lobby goes from Player 1 to Player 5 on each team and reveals their most desired role that hasn't already been shown, with Fill players showing Fill instead of being given a role. Players can then pick champions, swap roles, change champions, etc like they do now.

PROS:

  • "Fill" doesn't become synonymous with "Support" (drawback of the current Draft system) because it happens in the lobby phase not the matchmaking phase
  • Players don't have to fight to type in a role fast, it's already entered and displayed
  • Players default to their next preferred role automatically, so you always get your most preferred role when possible
  • Still allows the full timer to discuss, plan, and trade
  • Simple to understand once in lobby

CONS:

  • Since picking roles before you enter queue is something that's happened with Draft Pick for a while now, there's a high chance people will assume that Fill and Support as a higher up pick will result in them always getting Support. This would need to be a huge teaching point to prevent Fill/Support from being bottom picks all the time
  • More complexity before the game starts, especially to new players who don't know what these roles are. This could possibly be solved with tooltips at the start and a "Random Order" button to shuffle things up.

If you want to add to the concept/discussion, think I missed anything or simply want to show your support for a new "standard" champion select experience, make your voice heard!

48 Comments

BakedLotion6/4/2017, 2:44:22 PM13 votes

Bro if I'm queuing for blind pick, I'm accepting that I won't always get my preferred role. It's kinda pointless

DrCyanide6/4/2017, 3:33:59 PM11 votes

As someone who prefers Blind Pick to other queue types, I disagree with the suggestion.

First, in my experience, most instalockers left for Draft Pick already. Maybe that's a result of my "blind pick mmr" being too high, or maybe it does represent the queue as a whole. Most the time people are very quick to jump to their secondary role (or third, or fourth) as needed.

Second, it drastically reduces the amount of flexibility in the queue. By applying a pick order, you're also going to force ~30 second pick timers and make it impossible for players to change their champions. This is a major disadvantage. Right now if I'm support and my mid switches from Zed to Yasuo, I can swap from Bard to Thresh to try to give them more knockups. You lose that with a pick order system.

Third, there are a decent amount of people who play Blind Pick to Fill (myself included. You get into a bit of a stalemate when 2 or more people are looking to Fill in the same game). You'd be forcing them to pick early, when that's exactly the opposite of what they want to see happen.

invisiblecat16/4/2017, 3:16:23 PM10 votes

Literally, if you don't like it, play draft games Don't ruin it for the rest of us by getting it removed and forcing us the play draft pick when we don't like it

Breaku6/4/2017, 6:34:42 PM3 votes

If I'm playing blind, it's to get into game quicker than draft

PePsiLemoNN6/4/2017, 2:38:45 PM2 votes

People still play blind pick? lol

SEKAI6/4/2017, 11:19:36 AM2 votes

I support this.

Also I don't necessary see a longer champ select a bad thing necessarily. It gets more time to talk about what kind of general strategy the team wants, as partly the reason why call order and instalockers become a thing is due to the fact the champ select is so short in blinds. So if we extend that a bit, working together is probably more like to be established instead of settling for arguments, or at least hopefully that's what happens.

But yeah, this is a solid idea.

korg0236/4/2017, 9:35:33 PM2 votes

I play blind when i want quick game without so much time waiting for everyone to ban and pick,i just copy paste "mid" "top" and paste it as fast as possible in lobby chat. You would be surprised how many times people respect if you typed it first and they let you play it. It maybe only 5% of the time happens that someone troll on purpose but then we go double top or double mid and its okay cause its just blind everyone trolls. Hope this helps!

nyx19986/4/2017, 12:52:30 PM2 votes

I also support this. even though I think it doesn't help much about people fight over some position but it feel less chaotic.

tw3t6/4/2017, 2:06:49 PM2 votes

I think a simpler plan would be to have people select their role when queueing (like in draft) then just assign roles and do blind pick like normal. That way nobody has to call out their roles, they are assigned when champ select starts and that's that.

DoktorKaiser6/6/2017, 12:18:18 AM1 votes

Is it just me or I see waaay more retards, instalockers and lobby trolls in Draft mode than in Blind mode. Maybe its because my Draft MMR doesnt exist so I am matched with the worst scum untill I play some games, maybe its really that bad but I swear to god , I tried maybe 10 Draft normals in past 10 months and 9 of those were just terrible experience, from trolls, people who pick stupid shit and instalockers to just purely toxic people who seem like they have some mental problems honestly. Idk might be just bad luck, but I wont be playing Draft again soon, there is Flex to troll around anyway (I dont mean literal trolling, just playing without pressure of soloq).

58697132DEL16/4/2017, 3:55:22 PM1 votes

Wait people outside of premade 5 mans play blind pick? :o

I mean autofill is a giant shitfest but i mean the arguing over roles/instalock shit is way more annoying. EDIT wait other servers dont HAVE a draft? Why?????

Stars Shaper6/4/2017, 4:22:00 PM1 votes

Blindpick is just a well of toxicity that should be deleted and replaced with Team Builder.

There is no reason to keep Blindpick, fast queue? Yes but then you have to instatype your lane and if you're either: too slow, with a preamde in group, with some1 who doens't care and instalocks then you can forget about playing what you wanted to play an be "autofilled" into what others decide you to put.

R0XTAR6/4/2017, 9:47:37 PM1 votes

This is actually a brilliant idea, although Riot is backed up with a lot of teams on preseason work and delivering new features. This would be a cool idea if there were developers from the map teams and RGM teams doing a little work on this new "Blind Pick" as you would call it. This could also be delivered around November as a tribute if they truly want to get rid of toxicity in games.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Keitron6/5/2017, 4:23:04 AM1 votes

If i wanted a longer champ select process i would pick draft but blind is quick and easy, pointless topic, blind pick is blind pick keep it simple stupid.

DeadUnborn6/5/2017, 4:55:42 AM1 votes

I like blind pick better because my computer is fast enough that 9/10 times I will get the roll I want, and won't have the champ i want to play countered/banned