Made a really hard to play assassin/fighter that looks fun anyway

Little Kica··2 votes·476 views

Karogar, The strongest warrior in the universe

Level 1 Health: 494 (+77.5) Health Regen: 6.25 (+.55) Mana: 62 (+6.94) Mana Regen: 1.74 (+.09) Attack Damage: 51.1 (+3.66) Attack Speed:.625 (+25%) Armor: 25.8 (+2.45) Magic Resist: 30 (+.472) Move Speed: 335 Range: 150

Level 18 Health: 1889 Health Regen: 16.3 Mana: 187 Mana Regen: 3.48 Attack Damage: 117 Attack Speed:.781 Armor: 70 Magic Resist: 38.5 Move Speed: 335 Range: 150

P: Alien Armor: Karogar's armor learns as it takes damage from enemy champions, reducing the effectiveness of the last attack used against him by 5/8/11% damage. If the same attack is used against him 3 times in a row its damage is reduced by 5/8/11% again (Improves at levels 1/7/13)

Q1: Continuum Blade: Karogar slashes the target area in a strait line, away from his current position, creating a white slash through the space time continuum which remains for 10 seconds before turning to dust. If Karogar puts his cursor over a Continuum Line he can active Q2 to detonate it. Karogar cannot make more than 15 Continuum Lines at once. Further created Continuum Lines cause older ones to fade into dust.

Q2: Continuum Rift: Karogar motions for his past attack to become real causing a Continuum Line to rupture dealing physical damage in a line after .5/.45/.4/.35/.3 seconds. Continuum Lines that have existed for over 5/4.5/4/3.5/3 seconds are capable of critically striking.

Q1 Cooldown: 3/2.5/2/1.5/1 seconds Q1 Mana Cost: 4/4/5/5/6 Q2 Cooldown: .1/.1/.1/.1/.1 seconds Q2 Damage: 17/22/27/32/37 + 50% ad ratio physical damage Q2 Mana Cost: 15/15/16/16/17 Range: 150 Continuum Line Length: 400 Continumm Line Width: 10 Continuum Line Direction: In a strait line in the target direction away from Karogar

W: Cloak of Nightmare: Every 19th (minus 1 basic attack per 10% critical hit chance) basic attack blinds the target hit for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds and deals 6/12/18/24/30 + 10% ap ratio bonus magic damage on hit. The magic damage and blind can critically strike fearing the target hit instead but for half the duration (.5/.6125/.75/.875/1 seconds).

Damage: 6/12/18/24/30 + 10% ap ratio bonus magic damage Blind Duration: 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds Fear Duration: .5/.625/.75/.875/1 seconds

E: Dimension Transit: Has 2 possible uses. Karogar Teleports into basic attack range of a targetted enemy unit inflicted with Nanites putting Dimensional Transit on a lowered cooldown if the unit he teleported to was a minion or monster. If Karogar is on one of the ends of a Continuum Line he can teleport to the other end of it putting Dimension Transit on a lowered cooldown ( 4/3.5/3/2.5/2), or instantly refreshing Dimensional Transit's cooldown if Karogar teleported while the Continuum Line was rupturing.

E Passive: Karogar's basic attacks apply the Nanites debuff to enemies hit for 2.5 seconds. This Debuff grants Karogar vision of the target for the duration as well as granting him 10/15/20/25/30% critical damage to the target.

Passive duration: 2.5 seconds E Cooldown: 18/17/16/15/14 seconds E Cooldown (Lowered): 4/3.5/3/2.5/2 seconds Mana Cost: 20/20/21/21/22 + 1% of max mana

R: Alter Slash: Karogar becomes invisible briefly before rupturing every Continuum Line within 3000 units dealing 50/75/100 + 100% ad ratio physical damage. Or 75/110/145 + 120% ad ratio physical damage against targets inflicted with Nanites. The same target can be damaged by multiple Continuum Lines.

Damage: 50(75)/75(110)/100(145) + 100%(120%) ad ratio physical damage (does bonus damage against targets inflicted with Nanites) Invisibility Duration: .75 seconds Cooldown: 80/70/60 seconds Mana Cost: 50/75/100

Basically a really squishy guy with a ton of mobility and damage that is situational and requires a ton of preparation to do anything with. Maybe it wouldn't be the best idea to add him idk. We don't want another Yasuo do we? Maybe we do without realizing it? This would still be fun to play even though I'd probably go 0/17 like I do with Katarina lol

3 Comments

ModThe Djinn1 votes

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The Djinn appears, as requested!

Let's take a look.


Karogar, The strongest warrior in the universe

I just want to say that the title could use some work. It's a rather bland tag-line, and it also immediately makes EVERY other warrior seem less epic by comparison. You'll notice League is careful not to have a "best" or "strongest" at most things, because it keeps things interesting. "The strongest ever, period" doesn't leave a lot of room for exciting stories.

Also, he really doesn't seem like a "strong warrior." He seems like a guy with fancy technology that MAKES him good.


P: Alien Armor: Karogar's armor learns as it takes damage from enemy champions, reducing the effectiveness of the last attack used against him by 5/8/11% damage. If the same attack is used against him 3 times in a row its damage is reduced by 5/8/11% again (Improves at levels 1/7/13)

This is DEFINITELY not an Assassin ability, and it's pretty powerful against auto-attackers (22% reduced damage on top of armor/MR reduction). I'd be concerned this much free resistance will lead to him building bruiser against a lot of teams.

Q1: Continuum Blade: Karogar slashes the target area in a strait line, away from his current position, creating a white slash through the space time continuum which remains for 10 seconds before turning to dust. If Karogar puts his cursor over a Continuum Line he can active Q2 to detonate it. Karogar cannot make more than 15 Continuum Lines at once. Further created Continuum Lines cause older ones to fade into dust.

Q2: Continuum Rift: Karogar motions for his past attack to become real causing a Continuum Line to rupture dealing physical damage in a line after .5/.45/.4/.35/.3 seconds. Continuum Lines that have existed for over 5/4.5/4/3.5/3 seconds are capable of critically striking.

Q1 Cooldown: 3/2.5/2/1.5/1 seconds Q1 Mana Cost: 4/4/5/5/6 Q2 Cooldown: .1/.1/.1/.1/.1 seconds Q2 Damage: 17/22/27/32/37 + 50% ad ratio physical damage Q2 Mana Cost: 15/15/16/16/17 Range: 150 Continuum Line Length: 400 Continumm Line Width: 10 Continuum Line Direction: In a strait line in the target direction away from Karogar

This is a fascinating, innovative ability that, sadly, has a LOT of problems.

First the good -- the idea of laying down zone control and detonating it later with a reward for letting it sit is awesome. It's super creative, and I really want to love it.

Now the bad. There can be FIFTEEN of these things, which means you can cover a lane and make it almost impossible to contest an area he controls. The timing on the explosion changes, making it really frustrating to learn to play against. The button spam required to play the champion is insane -- 2 Qs at least per second are needed to keep up a place/detonate chain. It's going to clutter the screen, it's going to be all but impossible to tell which line will vanish when/if you place a new one, it's going to get mess if you want to overlap areas and end up detonating them by accident, and it's not good on an assassin because the enemy can simply avoid the area.

I think the IDEA has potential, but I'd severely reduce the number of lines, make them AoEs or larger shapes instead, and put it on a tank or support or utility mage instead of an assassin.

W: Cloak of Nightmare: Every 19th (minus 1 basic attack per 10% critical hit chance) basic attack blinds the target hit for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds and deals 6/12/18/24/30 + 10% ap ratio bonus magic damage on hit. The magic damage and blind can critically strike fearing the target hit instead but for half the duration (.5/.6125/.75/.875/1 seconds).

Damage: 6/12/18/24/30 + 10% ap ratio bonus magic damage Blind Duration: 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds Fear Duration: .5/.625/.75/.875/1 seconds

...I feel if it's that uncommon you should just make it an active ability and be done with it -- the once every 19 hits thing is just odd. Also, sometimes you would PREFER a longer blind to a shorter fear, and not having control of that feels awful. I'd pick one and be done with it.

Again, this is a low damage, unreliable, hard-CC move on an assassin/fighter. Not that thrilled with the idea as implemented.

E: Dimension Transit: Has 2 possible uses. Karogar Teleports into basic attack range of a targetted enemy unit inflicted with Nanites putting Dimensional Transit on a lowered cooldown if the unit he teleported to was a minion or monster. If Karogar is on one of the ends of a Continuum Line he can teleport to the other end of it putting Dimension Transit on a lowered cooldown ( 4/3.5/3/2.5/2), or instantly refreshing Dimensional Transit's cooldown if Karogar teleported while the Continuum Line was rupturing.

E Passive: Karogar's basic attacks apply the Nanites debuff to enemies hit for 2.5 seconds. This Debuff grants Karogar vision of the target for the duration as well as granting him 10/15/20/25/30% critical damage to the target.

Passive duration: 2.5 seconds E Cooldown: 18/17/16/15/14 seconds E Cooldown (Lowered): 4/3.5/3/2.5/2 seconds Mana Cost: 20/20/21/21/22 + 1% of max mana

So you have to hit a champion to leap to them, yes? It's going to be hard to get that first hit in if they don't want you do, since you get no other gapclosers or slows or anything. The "hit minion / teleport to minion" this is interesting and sets up some cool in-lane tricks, but, again, most of those tricks are zoning enemies away from minions you hit -- which his Q already does.

Also, note that most spell casts interrupt attacks, so the auto-attack/crit build you're going for may be made super awkward by the number of precision Q casts you want him to make. Not a dealbreaker (Evelyn has a similar problem), but it could be an issue -- especially since this ability ALSO can have a 0 second cooldown easily. Yasuo on crack, if his Q was Evelyn's Q and his E could go over walls after Qing. That's going to be a balance NIGHTMARE.

In general (on this and your other ideas) you also seem to love scaling EVERYTHING. You don't have to scale every element of a champion. You can have, say, a consistent cooldown reduction, or a consistent detonation time on his Qs. Sometimes this is actually a good idea (Q detonation time, for example, to increase clarity when playing against him).

R: Alter Slash: Karogar becomes invisible briefly before rupturing every Continuum Line within 3000 units dealing 50/75/100 + 100% ad ratio physical damage. Or 75/110/145 + 120% ad ratio physical damage against targets inflicted with Nanites. The same target can be damaged by multiple Continuum Lines.

Damage: 50(75)/75(110)/100(145) + 100%(120%) ad ratio physical damage (does bonus damage against targets inflicted with Nanites) Invisibility Duration: .75 seconds Cooldown: 80/70/60 seconds Mana Cost: 50/75/100

I'm not sure this is necessary, given that you can detonate TEN Continuum Lines in a second if you spam Q. Sure, the damage is higher, but it's weird to have a button basically devoted solely to making you spam Q less.


#Closing Thoughts

This wasn't as detailed as my previous review for you, and that's for a big reason -- as much as I want to love this character's main gimmick, I simply think it doesn't WORK as currently designed, especially in the character's intended role. That effectively breaks the flow of the kit entirely for me, and makes the rest hard to judge.

I do think you have a bit too much of a fondness for complex abilities and scaling everything though, and that's a habit that you need to know when to break. Let's analyze this kit as an example.

Passive: Complex interactions. Reduces damage only from the 2nd or more subsequent hit of a specific attack, per champion. Three hits in a row reduces it further. Some champions don't care, others have to specifically weave spells, and you can't put a visual on it because it has to be unique per character hitting you.

Q: Spammable cooldown where everything scales. Multiple levels of interaction. This is where your complexity budget should probably be, but it overloads that with visual complexity and creating hard-zoning situations that have no counterplay save dodging FAST.

W: Cooldown that blinds. Cool. But it's also every X attacks, reduced by an odd stat in an odd way. Does something entirely different under a set of circumstances you can't control, which increases complexity and makes playing him / against him more frustrating.

E: Teleports you to a target. Or to a line. Can have it's cooldown reduced under certain circumstances, or refreshed entirely under others (which is going to be super common). Requires spamming TWO buttons repeatedly to dash/detonate/place/repeat. Also increases crit damage, and grants vision.

R: Simplest ability on the kit to comprehend, and it still has a few parts. Invisibility, detonation (which removes your own mobility options, and thus may not be great), and two differing levels of damage.

There's just a LOT going on, and some of the interactions and tiny bonuses can probably be cut, simplified, or unified.

Little Kica1 votes

Very interesting Indeed. The fact that I cannot get my intentions to work sometimes is probably a sign that I really need practice with champ design.

The passive reduction's purpose was for him to get into weird spots to set up his q. But it's strong enough to abuse without even needing to do that when you can just make a wall of Qs.

Some work definitely needs to be done with Q2 and ult cause right now it's just Q2 for some quick damage and ult for faster bigger damage. Q2's low cooldown was supposed to mean the actual cooldown was how fast you can place Qs and how many of them you want to give up. Definitely think that there should maybe be only like 5 of them not like 15. Didn't even think how that would make a lane look if he had 15 of them down lol.

W seems to be the most flawed. I'm not sure how to fix it tbh. This has always been on his kit. I want him to have a blind on his auto that is improved in some way to a fear. Making it an active is probably the way to go but i've never considered that a blind might be better than a fear... Maybe the fear is the default and if they have Nanites on them he blinds? Probably a better idea then.

...and yeah his ult is maybe kinda garbo. It's like Q but faster, does more damage, and completely removes your mobility option to compensate. I originally wanted to give him a channeled stab attack that hits like a hundred times but I remember everyone saying that did too much damage. I don't know how to give him an ult that synergizes well with his kit, rewards skill, but also doesn't look broken to everyone lol

I guess I do make a lot of stuff scale, cause those are my favorite champs to play. Maybe I should change how some stuff works and get back to you?

This is the first time anyone's actually taken a look or given me real criticism with detailed reasons why stuff doesn't work. I can't begin to say how thankful I am.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

{quoted}Very interesting Indeed. The fact that I cannot get my intentions to work sometimes is probably a sign that I really need practice with champ design.

We all need practice, all the time. Riot designers need practice. Ghostcrawler needs practice. [Your favorite designer here] needs practice. What I'm trying to say here (no offense to Riot or Ghostcrawler intended) is that everyone, of every level, can always benefit from practicing design. There is always room for improvement and for learning. So don't sweat it. You tried to do something REALLY unusual here, and didn't quite land it. That happens.

Some work definitely needs to be done with Q2 and ult cause right now it's just Q2 for some quick damage and ult for faster bigger damage. Q2's low cooldown was supposed to mean the actual cooldown was how fast you can place Qs and how many of them you want to give up. Definitely think that there should maybe be only like 5 of them not like 15. Didn't even think how that would make a lane look if he had 15 of them down lol.

Heh. Yeah. Always think about how it feels to play with and against the kit you're designing. When you're spamming two buttons constantly (E and Q), it's frustrating to play, and when you're unable to move anywhere in the lane it's frustrating to play against.

I'd really think about whether this guy is an assassin or a zone-controlling mage or a juggernaut though -- this Q doesn't really fit an assassin, but you could probably put it on a zoning mage or a juggernaut pretty easily with a few tweaks. If you WANT to make him an assassin, he can't take this long to set up -- it's almost TOO much counterplay to be considered an assassin, as he's got nearly no up-front damage and all his backloaded damage is avoidable. :)

W seems to be the most flawed. I'm not sure how to fix it tbh. This has always been on his kit. I want him to have a blind on his auto that is improved in some way to a fear. Making it an active is probably the way to go but i've never considered that a blind might be better than a fear... Maybe the fear is the default and if they have Nanites on them he blinds? Probably a better idea then.

See, the problem is that some champs you'd rather blind, and some you'd rather fear. AUpgrading to the fear is fine, but the duration decrease is what made it sometimes not as good -- I'd rather blind Tryndamere for 2 seconds than fear him for 1, for example. This is why most variable CC is something like "slow them OR stun them," where the stun is always superior.

...and yeah his ult is maybe kinda garbo. It's like Q but faster, does more damage, and completely removes your mobility option to compensate. I originally wanted to give him a channeled stab attack that hits like a hundred times but I remember everyone saying that did too much damage. I don't know how to give him an ult that synergizes well with his kit, rewards skill, but also doesn't look broken to everyone lol

Don't worry! Once you lock down his core mechanics maybe something will come to you.

I guess I do make a lot of stuff scale, cause those are my favorite champs to play. Maybe I should change how some stuff works and get back to you?

Things can scale, but not EVERYTHING has to scale is my point. You're literally scaling almost every numerical thing on his kit, and you can still build a late-game scaling champ without needing that.

This is the first time anyone's actually taken a look or given me real criticism with detailed reasons why stuff doesn't work. I can't begin to say how thankful I am.

Any time! I play to do this sort of thing more and more in the near future. :)

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