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Kindred; A Proper Duo-Marksman Ability Kit

Stacona··5 votes·3,076 views

My thing with Kindred is that it is all about the Lamb show and Wolf makes an occasional guest appearance with no relevance to the kit whatsoever, he is just kind of there for moral support.

~ Kindred should work with Wolf and Wolf work with Lamb, when not working together to take down their target then they are very weak, but very strong when Lamb works with her A.I. companion Wolf.

~ There is a better way to incorporate a bounty hunter theme without forcing Kindred to be a jungler and without needing to snowball to be strong and without the snowball being incredibly useless. Also the bounty hunter aspect needs to change anyways since right now it involves bullying a weak target over and over again, where as the purpose of a bounty hunter is going after something strong and get a great reward if you take them out or bring them under arrest, it is not about taking out weak no-names with no bounty on their head. Also bounty hunters do not choose who they hunt, a bounty is assigned and then the bounty hunter that achieves that bounty gets the reward for returning the target's head (showing evidence that you handled the job).

~ Kindred should not be shoe horned as a jungle marksman. They should be made to function in the duo-lane like a normal marksman and if they can jungle then they can jungle, let it be natural rather than forced.

~ To make Kindred's gameplay unique rather than being a normal marksman, they should have attack damage ratios on Lamb's and Wolf's basic attacks to emphasize them being weak when splitting their damage, but very strong when focusing on one target together (as well as other cooperation buffs between Lamb and Wolf).

Represent your feedback as you see fit, it will help a lot to improve this post and posts in the future.

Attack Range: 575 units Wolf Attack Range: 75 units (so can attack 650 range from Lamb technically)

Movement: 325 units per second Wolf Movement Speed: 400 units per second (increased with Lamb's movement speed increases)

Attack Speed: 0.690 +2% per level Wolf Attack Speed: 0.750 +50% of Lamb's bonus attack speed

Attack Damage: Very average to your typical marksman

Wolf's Frenzy (Passive): Leash Range: 575 units Lamb's and Wolf's attacks both deal 55% damage each, including on-hit damage from items, Lamb deals physical damage and Wolf deals magical damage. Lamb deals 100% damage against minions and monsters.

Wolf always sticks near Lamb and he attacks the closest enemy to her automatically. Wolf can attack enemy structures.

Lamb's attacks deal 4%(+2% per 100AP) of target's current health as bonus physical damage. Wolf's attacks deal 6%(+3% per 100AP) of target's missing health as bonus magical damage.

Mark of the Kindred: Lamb gains an additional 0.5% current health damage and Wolf gains 0.75% missing health damage whenever they gain a kill or assist against any target with more than 2500 health, this includes structures. Kindred will also gain a Mark of the Kindred per unique champion takedown.

Dance of Arrows (Q): Cooldown: 10 seconds; Cost: 30 mana; Range: 350 / 575 units Lamb hops to the target location, firing three arrows to up to 3 different nearby enemies upon landing, dealing 20/30/40/50/60(+55%AD) physical damage and embedding an arrow into struck targets for 2 seconds.

If Wolf's attacks rip out an arrow then Dance of Arrows' cooldown is reduced to 4/3.5/3/2.5/2 seconds.

Mounting Dread (W): Cooldown: 11/10/9/8/7 seconds; Cost: 65 mana; Range: 1000 units Wolf jumps into Lamb's bow and acts like an arrow, Lamb fires Wolf in the target direction, causing him to cling on to the first enemy struck for 2.5 seconds and attacking the target, slowing the target by 25/30/35/40/45% while clung to it.

Blood and Kill (E): Cooldown: 14/13/12/11/10 seconds; Cost: 40 mana; Range: 650 units Active: Lamb marks the target enemy for 1.5 seconds which causes Wolf to prioritize the target.

Passive: If Wolf attacks the marked enemy he releases the scent of blood from the target for the next 4 seconds. Lamb gains 40/45/50/55/60% bonus attack speed while she smells this blood and if she deals 3 attacks against the bleeding target then it is dealt 60/90/120/150/180(+70%AD)(+70%AP) bonus true damage one time.

Lamb's Respite (R): Cooldown: 160/130/100 seconds; Cost: 100 mana; Range: 600 units Lamb blesses the ground at her feet for 4 seconds, causing all targets, ally and enemy, to be unable to receive damage and healing when below 10/15/20% health.

After 4 seconds, the blessing ends and heals all units, ally and enemy, for 100/150/200(+75%AP) health.

Here is an alternate take for Lamb's Respite:

Lamb's Respite (R): Cooldown: 24/18/12 seconds; Cost: 100 mana; Range: 600 units Lamb blesses the ground at her feet for 4 seconds, afterwards or upon reactivation of Lamb's Respite will heal a minimum of 100/150/200(+50%AP) health to all allies and Kindred within the zone.

Lamb's and Wolf's attacks against enemy champions or epic monsters will increase the healing by 20/30/40(+10%AP), up to a maximum of 100/150/200(+50%AP) additional healing.

The idea with this one is just going all out on having a team utility ultimate rather than be carry focused with the damage immunity on a health threshold. It could be interesting alternative and easier to keep Kindred balance, could also be implemented as an emergency button.

28 Comments

tunehunter4 votes

Things to note.... Kindred is not a traditional "bounty hunter" they are the "eternal hunters" they are an incarnation of death itself and natural selection says the weak die so do not think of them in the traditional "bounty hunter" way. Further picking their hunts is actually the most fun thing about their kit currently and I would be very sad to see that go, if you want to see a reward for going after heavier targets than I would suggest offering a bonus for taking down a champ you havent taken down yet, or a bonus against marked targets encouraging the kindred player to mark the tougher opponent so they can fight them better. Finally Lamb and wolf are simply a choice of a painless and peaceful death or a painful violent death, both can kill with out the other yet neither exist without the other and they are always together. "never one, without the other", "Which things are mine to take.... all things dear wolf" "choose my arrows.... OR MY TEETH" that last part makes the idea that they have to attack in unison rather than having both able to kill individually dependent on how the opponent wants to fight and how you use your abilities seems off to me.

Stacona1 votes

Riot said they are a bounty hunter. In terms of game balance, it should be reward for kill/assist on the strongest champion and the strongest monsters. I am working around game health and making Kindred a way to consistently get a minimum amount of stacks every game.

I implemented stacks for UNIQUE CHAMPION TAKEDOWNS (Champion kill or assist) so kill everyone on the enemy team grants 5 stacks that way. The infinite stacking is from epic monsters and strongest enemy champion. Unique champion takedowns is the minimum and consistent stacking every game.

The problem with choice marking is that it encourages a bully play style by attacking the weakest champion over and over against for free stacks. By making it takedowns on unique champions grants something to work towards every game and offer a minimum amount of stacks every game to more easily balanced Kindred. Have the infinite stacks on an automatic thing allows control of game balance and makes Kindred healthier in the game as they need to gain a kill or assist against the strongest enemy champion or against an epic monster, getting a reward for taking out significant targets.

tunehunter2 votes

Riot said a "bounty hunter TYPE marksman in the jungle" was what they had IN MIND when they started making kindred. That idea resulted in Kindred AND Jihn, but kindred themselves are the Eternal hunter and gameplay and lore wise they are supposed to be an incarnation of death. Bounty hunter is how they started but isnt what they ARE.

Stacona1 votes

Killing epic monsters and every champion on the enemy team does not do that? I am trying to balance out the stacks where it can be infinite stacking and allow Kindred a consistent way to get a minimum amounts of stacks (I have it set to 6+ minimum consistently every game) since you will get 5 stacks by the time teamfights break at at the latest with at least one epic monster stack. So anything more is a reward mechanic that you need to earn for playing well, but I wanted to bring up the minimum, and the time to get those minimum consistent stacks will vary based on the blood baths you create in the game, which that right there sounds like Eternal Hunters to me.

I focused on having consistent game-to-game stacks that balance her damage around the minimum of having 6 stacks worth of damage and anything more than that is few and far between to reduce her snowballing levels (so 8% current health / 12% missing health damage respectively I have it set to - that is roughly the same power as Kog'Maw's 6% max health damage or Varus' 15% max health burst, if it is a little more reward feeling is because Kindred has to earn it in some way rather than through levels and has to cooperate with Wolf for the most effective damage output since your base AD and non-kit on hits are basically halved.)

I definitely feel that wanting fights and killing epic monsters have more eternal hunters feeling, gives motivation for Kindred to fight rather than play it save by farming up for their items to just hyper scale later (also relies on stacks for the hyper scaling, even with a minimum granted at level 1, that minimum is pretty low).

The other thing could do for the stacks is 6 to 10 stacks (varies on stack power) are acquired from killing a certain amount of minions and monsters (not first 6 to 10 stacks, just a maximum that this method can give) that way Kindred eventually gets a minimum amount with unique champion kills be a reward for up to 5 more stacks and epic monsters giving another stack whenever you kill them and just drop the bounty element outright.

The reason I went with unique champions, epic monsters, and highest gold income champion is so that the stacks are associated with meaningful targets, but done in a way where Kindred can consistently get a minimum amount of stacks that varies based on game aggression of when you get them. If you do not kill champions, then at least you are securing objectives for your team, which is something marksmen do whether duo-lane or jungle allowing for a natural way to get stacks in a healthy gameplay since it is an active way to get power. Plus % damage means the stacks are innately not snowballing Kindred early on since % damage is at its weakest point in the early and Kindred is a hyper duo-marksman (well here they are a duo-marksman which I want Riot to implement Wolf's Frenzy to be their passive and split their damage between the two of them, makes their true unique element shine through a lot harder because the reason I like Kindred is because of Lamb+Wolf (and Lamb is just so dang cute!))

The second ultimate is because it is more support feeling by having a heal up more often. Reduces self-carrying power and adds more team utility to Kindred, great for a jungler, but I do see Kindred more towards a supportive-marksman rather than a hard carry type and I kind of want their ultimate to have damage/healing immunity removed and have it up more often as just a heal ultimate. This also plays into a jungler more as well as it grants Kindred something more than just damage by using their ultimate to save an ally rather than themselves.

I see Lamb as the killer and Wolf as the helper. Lamb may bless the ground, Wolf may hurt others, but Wolf is the one that wants to save his friends - this is how I see Kindred and I would love it if they were moved away from hard carry and more supportive with a heal only ultimate that is up a lot more often.

tunehunter2 votes

I wasnt saying anything about the rework Idea persay just saying keep some of this in mind. Honestly I dont see why they need "infinite stacking" it isnt realistic to get more than 10 or 13 stacks a game and more stacks than that really dont help as much as you would like anyway. Further my suggestion was to cap stacks and to give some sort of bonus to your attacks against targets you have marked while you are at max stacks.... say max the stacks at 8 or 10 and when you mark someone when you have max stacks you have a bonus against that champion that would encourage you to mark troublesome targets without having you snowball to far out of control by doing the same one over and over. Maybe the highest power champ gives two marks if you manage to take them down, but right now it is not realistic to go after the stronger champ. Marking the stronger champ is just asking you to feed more. Even if it did so passively you are encouraging some one that is likely not fed to fight the person that is fed to get anything from it at all. If you are fed already and can kill any of them than it is really not that different from picking on the "weak" one anyway.

Let us use rengar as an example... when he hunts you still go for the weak ones first and you only take on the strong guy once you can suicide bomb them thanks to snowballing on the weaker ones. No hunter starts on the big game, they start with the little ones and work their way up to big game. Death itself should be even more like this I feel.

That said I wanted to say something else about kindred. Has anyone noticed the overview graph thing which says kindred is super mobile. i couldnt help but laugh it is super false advertisement as mobility is probably the largest problem kindred currently has because of how trash their movement speed is and how slow the vault on their q both cools down and actually vaults. It also says they have "decent" cc when again their cc is almost negligible since they nerfed it so long ago, a 50% slow for 1 second on a champ with one of the slowest running speeds in the game is really kind of a joke.

Edit: Further if you were to have to kill champs or epic monsters to get marks and not just things like skuttle you would need a REALLY nice bonus for that because that is a lot harder to pull off so in your system each individual mark would have to be substantially better which would make kindred want early dragons even more than shyvanna. In addition since it would be unlikely that you would have your first mark before your first fight (unlike now) you would also have to have all of their abilities and, most improtantly, their base stats be a bit higher since their first mark will likely not come till their first gank... which also means they would need better tools to pull that off.....

Edit 2: also I was really suggesting keeping a little away from the idea that lamb and wolf attack in unison rather than Lamb attacking in one circumstance and wolf attacking in another. The arrow rip out idea of instance seems weird for the lore, however your idea for the E seems SUPER good and I really do love that kind of idea as it does fit well with the lore of the character and the gameplay I THINK they were looking at at some point. The thing with kindred is they are kind of a hot mess that are all over the place right now in terms of gameplay theme. they have range that scales, but want to fight inside a small circle so wolf can fight as well and because they have trash movement speed. They are a marksman and squishy so want to be on the backline but their ult is about saving people, from what I can tell the way that is set up you are jsut supposed to be the marksmen that predicts the assassin all in and screws them out of a kill, but xayah does that better now with her R which is hilarious.

Stacona1 votes

Q - is to implement Wolf in a more involved way for the reduced cooldown, Kindred attacks with Q shots and then Wolf follows up with a bite to reduce the cooldown.

W and E directly play with each other the most since launching Wolf to a target will guarantee he attacks it which then guarantees E's mark to get triggered for Lamb can go in for the kill.

More potential stacks just means we can reduce the per stack value so each stack does not give crazy power whenever you get one, only reason infinite stacking is around. The way I set it up, you are going around and crossing off names from list for your consistent stacks, and then still have incentive afterwards to make aggressive moves around the map with further rewards to collect through epic monsters and the strongest champion and not just stop making action after you collected your first 5 stacks stacks.

Kindred is a hyper scaling marksman and that is the balance here. They have a base value they start the game with and upgrade it with doing certain achievements across the map, they do not need high base damages, also I am making them as a duo-lane marksman and if they can jungle then they can jungle and that aspect should not be forced upon them - they just need to made unique as a duo-marksman that uses two characters fully.

Lamb has low movement speed because of her hop and having a way to make it a spam-able hop.

I think marks should just give tank busting damage and by reducing flat damages for the most part enforces this and especially since this makes them as two attackers with high attack speed, it really makes them all about tank busty rather than squishy killing. When a champion has one range for their attacks then it makes it easier for opponents to know their range of threat, right now that is all over the place which is why it is not a good thing for the stacks to have and they should just start the game with a higher attack range. Range increase on stacks also is not appreciated by the player since you do not know its true power, where as with some damage per stack then you see the gain a lot better.

it is late.

tunehunter2 votes

This is the issue the "spammable hop" isnt really spammable. Finally your mark suggestions actually winds up with LESS marks on average as well as having infinite scaling that is not truly infinite. Infinite scaling on characters like Nasus and Veigar make sense since getting a stack on them is super easy. With kindred though getting higher number of stacks just isnt realistic and by having it be infinite you are simply justifying keeping them weak in the early game making it harder to get those stack meaning the entire point of changing them is null and void because they are still in the same crap hole they are in now.

To go back to your mark suggestion. It ends up with them having less marks than they can currently achieve as well as having less consistent marks than they can currently achieve remember you are basically replacing Kindreds current passive with a crappier version of Rengar's and Shyvanna's combined. Rengar already has the whole "kill all 5 unique champions" thing going on and his multiplier is HUGE from it unlike your suggestion for kindred, from my understanding which could be wrong so no offense is really meant, and rengar isnt exactly doing all that great I dont want kindred to become a bad Rengar when Rengar is already bad.

It is a lot harder to get a kill vs going for a skuttle crab. It is even harder getting those last couple of kills on fed targets. This FORCES kindred to have to be stronger WITHOUT MARKS because you HAVE to fight for your marks, because you have to fight over dragons or kill people and not just any people or people that you choose to kill, but the strongest people you havent killed yet. Really think about that.... this is not consistent marks, this is the opposite of that this does not result in more marks it will, on average, result in much less which means each mark HAS to be more substantial if you go this way because other wise they will not be worth the level of investment or risk. This is the very definition of feast or famine.

Edit: remember that some of my edits like suggesting to keep Wolf and Lamb separate are from a lore perspective. This is who they are according to the lore and I suggest it to make them feel like they should rather than making them into a being they are not. Like turning them from an incarnation of death into a random bounty hunter that gets hired for jobs....

Stacona2 votes

My ideas have Kindred consistently have 8-10% Current health for Lamb and 12-15% missing health for Wolf (with AP scaling for the option to go a hybrid build or full AP if you want to, no reason not to have the option and not to have no scaling on these values like their heal and % damages). Anyways, the point is they should have a consistent value to work towards and achieve every single game and anything more should be an added bonus to their damage and kept as a low value.

I am fine with Kindred having stacks for their damage, just give them consistent elements to always achieve most of their stats that way from game to game they are never useless and never dominantly snowball either to have them better balanced all around. The other thing with their stacks is that I want it to be equally viable to obtain whether they go duo-lane or jungle and not be forced as a jungle marksman, because I want to play Kindred too and I do not jungle, and Kindred should be allowed to be the team's sole marksman.

There are three masteries that grant item CDR, spell vamp or out of combat movement speed from acquiring unique champion kills on the red mastery tree. But I do not think it is a worst version of Rengar's passive at all, Rengar is an assassin so flat damages make sense, but Kindred is a marksman so % damages make more sense since they are meant to kill tanks and other meaty targets and not squishies. Getting at least 8%+ current health / 12%+ missing health is an appropriate consistent value to obtain where Kindred will feel like a strong tank busting hyper marksman and not feel overpowered from the opponent's perspective, a nice middle ground.

Epic monster taking is because a marksman being rewarded for killing objectives is what they should do and this is a mechanic to teach players what marksmen should do. If anything I should change further stacks to killing tanky targets, like something where getting further champion stacks is by gaining a takedown (kill or assist) against targets with 2500+ health or something like that to say that Kindred should be attacking the tank / meaty target like a fighter/bruiser and not trying to dive the backline for the valuable target that probably does the most damage since it would most likely be the enemy mid laner or marksman.

Wolf and Lamb are separate attackers here though. But they are always together, as in Wolf sticks near Lamb always, and need to work together to kill their prey and cannot do it without the other's help. That is the theme I am going with for my ability kit.

tunehunter1 votes

I really like that last statement. I feel where you are coming from. As far as "epic monsters" being a thing that marksman should go for, that is fine I think they SHOULD be always marked as is I agree. The issue is the idea that this becomes "more consistent" with marks. It does not become more consistent especially if you have them target stronger people. If epic monsters are the only way to get "consistent" marks then you have to balance around having 0 marks until 6 minutes and balance around on average having about 3 or 4 marks at the 20 minute spot even with them getting a mark for killing a unique champ. Marks will happen much less. I am not saying yours doesnt do that I am not sure I am not good with the numbers for this game. I just know that marks will be MUCH less than they are now.

Stacona1 votes

Do not forget they start the game with a base amount of % damage and to get more to do core things.

Unique champion takedowns you will eventually get every game because one teamfight can earn you this so that is 5 stacks guaranteed every game.

I changed the stacks to unique champions plus takedowns on targets above 2500+ health so tanks, epic monsters and structures will give a mark which are all things marksmen are supposed to take. Eventually moves into some large monsters and minions once they get to the health threshold over time. But I want to bring up Kindred's consistent level of power and reduce their snowballing at the same time.

tunehunter1 votes

Ok so to do so you have made them stronger at 0 marks but they should fall off a little if they dont get marks. Which they should because they should be much better at ganking and much better at fighting the enemy jungler pre-6 ok cool.

I don't know about making them "tank killers" more than "squishy" killers as I feel they should not discriminate. They are runterra's embodiment of death and all things die eventually tank or squishy, and because of this I feel it is weird to add structures to the list as they are not living things. This sounds like a wonderful Idea for a champion to me... just not for kindred, this also sounds like they would start to shift more to "in-lane" character and the entire reason I picked them up (aside from their amazing lore) was the idea of a marksman in the jungle. I worry that it threatens to alienate the current players of them, myself included by taking them out of the jungle and making them lose some of their "assassin-like" qualities.

Stacona1 votes

It is % damages, so they do not start seeing a damage boost until about mid game. It gives a floor so the stacks can be reduced in power for more consistent power and less snowballing. But Kindred should be aimed as a hyper marksman and kept down early game since having two attackers will naturally make her scale so giving her % damages rather than flat damages plays on that element as well so she is kept down early game and is strong later on.

The other balance aspect I went with is halving their damage so produce that duo-attacker fantasy. Since the other half of the attacks is on Wolf, an automatic AI, it brings down her power against squishies since their damage is basically halved when Wolf is attacking the closest target to Lamb (even if you land W, that is a single target skill shot, so closest target still) so Kindred's flat damages are innately low making her not dominant in the early game which allows for them to have a floor of % damage immediately for consistent power and removed super snowballing (does not snowball any harder than every other hyper marksman).

Kindred is a natural scaler due to their theme so they need to be kept down early on and keep their flat damages low and focus on their scaling and % damages instead, which helps with killing tanks and not so much squishies. This is why they need to made to function as a duo-lane marksman and if they can jungle then they can jungle (the passive with two attackers should naturally be good with jungle clearing), but they should be made to be able to play duo-lane just fine like a normal marksman.

tunehunter1 votes

This makes it sound like you like the current power set and pattern for kindred, but you want to hard nerf their ability to get marks while they are in the jungle and force them into lane so that they can reach that late game... and to get stacks for this late game they have to win early game so they can take a tower and epic monster and get kills while also being weak in the early game. Unlike every other late game scaling marksman who's entire way they get to late game is by farming in lane until their power spike.

Ya naw I think if they are still going to be weak early and still be 100% feast or famine that i would rather just keep playing them in the jungle.

Verl0h2 votes

Take away the healing on enemy champions and units on her Ult, and you have a really solid Champion rework here.

Stacona1 votes

Then her ultimate is overpowered. I like that aspect about the ultimate to make you think twice of where you use it, it is the unique mechanic.

The other thing I could see on Kindred is remove the damage immunity effect and just have a heal for Kindred and her allies in the zone only after 4 seconds or upon reactivating the ability again. The heal has a minimum value and increases with damage to enemy champions from kindred up to a maximum value and go more in on Kindred feeling like a supporty marksman that way, grant more team utility with a lowish cooldown ultimate that only is an AoE heal for allies.

º Kindred º1 votes

Yes.

Stacona1 votes

It is the opposite of the "no" comments, but at least it is positive and not negative!

º Kindred º2 votes

{quoted}

It is the opposite of the "no" comments, but at least it is positive and not negative!

Well you did a good job of thinking how you can make them one champion and not a champ with a pet. So yes i want it.

Stacona1 votes

To make them like one champion I figured it be best to basically half their damage (so Wolf's attacks follow the same rules as basic attacks) and have each character deal the same damage, and when you split max health damage you get current health and missing health (missing health is higher because you rarely will ever see the full damage, where as enemies are consistently healthy so current health gets its full damage) - includes item on hit damage, so blade would deal 3% current health on Lamb's attacks and 3% current health on Wolf's attacks rather than 6% current health only on Lamb's attacks to make everything they do half as effective when alone and full strength when together and working together.

The thing with the abilities just work so much better now since QWE all help Wolf in some way and then helps Lamb.

Q - Lamb repositions herself to get Wolf to attack when she wants him to attack, damages and marks targets, and then Wolf attacks one of those targets to reduce Q's cooldown for more mobility for Lamb.

W - Lamb shoots out Wolf in a line to get Wolf to his target faster, Wolf slows the target so that Lamb can get in range to attack and deal damage.

E - Lamb gets Wolf to attack her target, Wolf attacks the target to buff up Lamb which then buffs himself up as well since he gets half of Lamb's bonus attack speed, and then that get Lamb to proc a true damage nuke and Wolf finishes off the target with his missing health damage. QWE only work together to get in range, slow the target down and those two effects help proc the true damage proc on E.

See I love Kindred, but not this current Kindred, and they has problems before as well. I do not play jungle and there is no reason why she should be forced to be in the jungle and they have hyper scaling so they should have the option between playing jungle or bottom and have her stacks be a very consistent thing for game balance.

When stacks have a consistent minimum (gain a kill or assist against every champion one time) then they do not need to snowball to be strong and are not useless since they are guaranteed to eventually get 5 stacks. Epic monsters granting a stack rewards both a duo-lane and jungle marksman for doing their job with taking objectives. Outside of this, infinite stacking against champions should be only against the strongest champion so that there is some kind of actual risk to it and not bully the weakest character for free stacks, we should not encourage bully play styles.

I just rambled on.

Testlolla1 votes

I like how you trying to make wolf play more role then he is right now, Love it. There is, however, something I think it's needed to change. First, as a kindred player, I really enjoy picking my targets and let the wolf pick his. I will be sad to see that goes away. Also, your e ability seems to be a little unnecessary since right now in game wolf will automatically attack the target kindred is attacking and Kindred is not Warwick, they are elegant. To make him attack the target that's closest to kindred seems fun but it will be hard to control.

by the way, I will like to have kindred scales only ad even though I can see you try to make kindred to be able to use Rageblade.

My own version will be: Attack Range: 500 units** (+25 per mark)** Wolf Attack Range: 75 units

Movement: 325 units per second Wolf Movement Speed: 400 units per second (increased with Lamb's movement speed increases)

Attack Speed: 0.690 +2% per level Wolf Attack Speed: 0.750 +50% of Lamb's bonus attack speed ** Attack Damage: 45-66 (almost half of a normal marksman) **

Passive: eternal hunter Lamb's attacks deal 1%(+1% per mark) of target's current health as bonus physical damage. Wolf's attacks deal 1%(+1% per mark) of target's missing health as bonus magical damage. add: bonus increase damage (0% to 100%). Lamb deal more damage to targets as them gets closer. Wolf deals more damage to a target as it goes closer to its max "attack range" (his zone, not really his attack range) and every attack by wolf will slow the target more (10% - 50% + 1% per stack) as the target closer to the edge of the zone. Wolf's bonus damage & slow only applies to targets going away from kindred. While Lambs bonus damage only applies to targets moving towards her

_This is to sympathize with the idea of people accept the death will kill by lamb while the people don't will kill by the wolf. _ Plus: we can have the wolf transform or become bigger as he gets closer to the boundary.

Wolf's Frenzy (Passive) wolf will attack targets within (kindred's range + 200 (+25 per mark)) range from Lamb (prioritize the closest target from lamb) dealing 45-88(+100% bonus ad) with 50% of lamb's attack speed. Once out of combat, Wolf will not attack unless lamb starts to attack so that bush will not be useless.

Dance of Arrows (Q): same as yours, **except give 10%(+5% per mark) bonus attack speed. **

Wolf's Frenzy (W): instead of going around kindred, wolf goes around a place marked by kindred. gain increased damage only base on how close target is to the edge of his zone not whether it runs away from kindred. Target range (how far can kindred mark) 374 + 25 per mark basically the original w

Mounting Dread (E): Wolf breaks its zones, stick to a target mark by kindred as long as lamb attack it once every 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds. Lambs increase her movement speed around the target.

Lamb's Respite (R): Same as original + **all units within the ult takes 20-30% bonus damage from all sources. **

Stacona1 votes

Really complicated. If you make the threat range one static range then it is clear for the user and the opponent to play around. Range on marks is the not the best feeling mechanic. For ability power ratios, I placed them where they make sense to be one since it does not make any sense for an ability to have no ratio at all.

Something I want is make Kindred more consistent in power and reduce their snowballing. So bring up their minimum power with % damage and reduce the value of the stacks. For target selection, the main problem with this is that it encourages bullying more often than not and better off with a unique champion mechanic instead and then just doing normal marksmen things of killing beefy targets, this teaches new players that marksmen are meant to hit the tank since they get rewarded for doing so.

Testlolla1 votes

For me, I don't think there is any problem in bullying a single lane, and I don't see kindred as a champion recommended to a new player. Whatever you do to win is the point in the game, so champion like Singed was put out. Kindred's point is to be a fun and unique champion, not a new-kid-friendly champion.

Testlolla1 votes

I do agree with you that they need more part of the wolf in the play though. And I do think kindred needs a more reliable way to stack mark. Maybe the mark can appear in your own jungle also. Stacking marks feel fun and a sense of accomplishment. I'm okay with less gain in each mark but I want more mark.

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