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New Jungle, New Nocturne

ShadowPledge··5 votes·3,612 views

Q ignores unit collision (unchanged) but it should allow terrain collision to be ignored too (only while he is on his dusktrail). Pretty much, this allows nocturne to have better ganks without using ult but he then loses lots of dmg for the gank and has to rely on fear. (which I seem to think is fair). And would increase his clears. Unlike kayn, nocturne can be in combat to do this, but entering the wall doesnt heal him or give him any benefits,other than maybe escaping.

W Same cost but instead of lasting 1.5 secs, it would last 1 sec and would block every ability during that one sec, not just one. (the spellshield lasts the full duration, but he is vulnerable to auto attacks and item actives and such) If a single ability was blocked he gains his regular bonuses. Nothing more for blocking more, this simply makes it so pleople cant just stack all their cc on you the moment you ult in, but if they delay it by 1sec they can still cc chain you.

E (ok disclaimer, why TF does this give mvmt spd when approaching feared targets, it has a short range already and usually the only time u get it off is IF they lived ur ult engage, or you used q to chase them already, meaning you already had all the mvmt spd necessary. if anything it should give movement speed towards tethered targets. but.) Disclaimer done. Remove the movement speed. Any feared targets takes 10% more dmg from nocturne (wasnt sure if it should be from all of nocturnes kit, or simply his basic attacks, to me it makes more sense to just say feared targets take 10% more dmg from nocturne's basic attacks) and doubles his healing from umbra blades (when the primary target is the feared one).

R slight range increase (one flash range pretty much). any enemy champion below 20% is revealed to nocturne. (gives nocturne vision of them. but you would only see as much as you would from Quinn blind, so you cant see whos around them, unless tehy are on each other)

23 Comments

PhearBunny3 votes

Nocturnes kit fundamentally isn't capable of being "good". Hes viable, but will never be good again.

The issue is, every month this game gets increasingly more hyper mobile, and increasingly too much damage, which essentially means for the past 4 years and onward his only realistic way to reach a target, is to press R(one of the longest cooldowns in the game). And generally he dies afterwards. So ,once every 120seconds or so, he can actually realistically reach a target....in a game where atleast half of the champ pool can just effortlessly disengage away from him. Flash away from him. Zhonyas, GA, Ninja Tabi, Deaths Dance, PD...in a meta where the only isolated target youre ever going to find to assassinate(with R), is some split push god champ, that will roflstomp you. he's limited by mana, with big mana costs.

Nocturne needs a reliable engage, a reliable escape, and a new resource system. They should probably swap his Q and his R(drastically reduce the range of it) and make his R just a bunch of Duskbringer homing missles that fire off in a decently large radius, that allow him to ignore terrain like you said, and retain the current effects of duskbringer.+60AD/avoid unit collision.

And yes I'm aware you can reach 40s CD on Paranoia with runes and 40% CDR. Before anyone says anything about the 120s CD.

ShadowPledge1 votes

{quoted}

Nocturnes kit fundamentally isn't capable of being "good". Hes viable, but will never be good again.

The issue is, every month this game gets increasingly more hyper mobile, and increasingly too much damage, which essentially means for the past 4 years and onward his only realistic way to reach a target, is to press R(one of the longest cooldowns in the game). And generally he dies afterwards. So ,once every 120seconds or so, he can actually realistically reach a target....in a game where atleast half of the champ pool can just effortlessly disengage away from him. Flash away from him. Zhonyas, GA, Ninja Tabi, Deaths Dance, PD...in a meta where the only isolated target youre ever going to find to assassinate(with R), is some split push god champ, that will roflstomp you. he's limited by mana, with big mana costs.

Nocturne needs a reliable engage, a reliable escape, and a new resource system. They should probably swap his Q and his R(drastically reduce the range of it) and make his R just a bunch of Duskbringer homing missles that fire off in a decently large radius, that allow him to ignore terrain like you said, and retain the current effects of duskbringer.+60AD/avoid unit collision.

And yes I'm aware you can reach 40s CD on Paranoia with runes and 40% CDR. Before anyone says anything about the 120s CD.

I agree with a lot about what you said, however I dont think his ult is fundamentally flawed, I think both his passive and his E are. While Nocturnes kit currently screams one shot burst and die, his passive and E say otherwise, and try to encourage him to stay in the fight. Above all else, he may lack mobility (to keep up with others now a days) however, I believe he lacks more sustainability as his passive is his only source and isnt very reliable.

Not to forget that his e and passive both scale uniquely with ap??!??!?!?! wut? why? I understand that healing and psychotic dmg would be magical to some extent I see no reason to give an AD assassin ap scalings, which I also believe is a portion as to what is flawed about him. Maybe scale them with his max hp? or heal him for a % of missing hp? or make E tether steal hp according to their max hp? There is a lot to you could say about nocturne and what his flaws are.

Should he be an assassin? then keep Q, W, R. Should he be a bruiser. Then keep his P, Q, E and rework W and R

Maybe to make him more reliable, set his ult on refreshes like darius? shorter range tho. Or maybe make it possible to cast on ally champs to boost their dmg? or mix of both, resets once but can only be cast on an ally. Giving him an in and out?

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I like most of these suggestions, have an upvote and a bump. +1

ShadowPledge1 votes

thanks :P, but u did say most :P what dont u like?

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Oh! I was mostly being vague just because I didn't want to commit to supporting the whole idea.

I like the Q enabling him to go through walls.

I like the spellshield lasting for a duration instead of popping.

I also really like the ultimate change where he see's enemies that are low but not anything around them, I might even suggest lowering that vision even more to just show the champion and nothing of what is around them.

I'm not sure how I feel about the fear changes. Technically it exists the way it does because feared enemies run away from him, having increased movement speed towards them allows him to swing around them like singed's passive does, getting in position for that forced movement to make them go in a direction he wants. So I'm not really a fan of the change to this ability, but that's just my opinion. Overall your ideas are pretty great!

And all in all these changes would be a net buff, it's a lot of power to add into his kit, which is risky since Nocturne is already sort of feast or famine. Makes it a lot easier to feast on him without giving opponents as much opportunity to out-play him. That said he definitely is kind of weak, so maybe it's good to buff him.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Changing his Q would be amazing,but people seems to ignore how much power you actually add to a champions kit.

ShadowPledge1 votes

How is this more powerful than talon? kayn? Camille? LB? or any other champion that can go over walls so easily without a ton of mana costs?

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Not a fan of 2 abilities that allow him to go over/through terrain combined with a global undodgeable 6 second nearsight.

ShadowPledge1 votes

i believe u misunderstood, they dont get any worse vision reduction then they already do. I was simply stating that below 20% hp noc see them and only them, not whats around them

PokladnicaZla1 votes

The new Q suggested and R would allow him to travel through/over terrain ,while his R is already 6 seconds long,which is a really underrated aspect of his kit.

ShadowPledge1 votes

I wouldnt count his ult, all that much as panth, kayn, diana, akali are all champs that can go over terrain. Also his ult is only 6 secs long because of a recent buff (it used to last 4secs). Also, to use his ult he still needs to be in range... its quite small, have u seen it? at first level, u cant reach ur own mid turret from ur buff.

Fazor1 votes

Before i begin, i am a Noc main, and have been playing him since Season 3. I have 438k mastery points on him.

The Q change would be quite nice, but what are we willing to take away to grant that. Keeping Noc as he is currently and giving that buff would make him quite strong. I think his Q is already a pretty strong ability with the damage it does, the damage buff it gives, and the movement speed. His Q already allows him to escape from champs quite easily. I don't believe you need to allow him to ignore terrain. If I were to buff his Q in any way, i would remove the cast time. This would allow him to escape champs with greater ease, and wouldn't stop his auto attacks to use the ability.

I understand how allowing his Q to ignore terrain would make ganks easier for him, but his early ganks are nowhere as bad as some champs who require ult to gank such as Fiddlesticks and MasterYi . If you tell your laners to allow their lane opponent to push the lane so you can gank, you can easily secure a kill or a flash.

At a glance, looking at Nocturne's kit may reveal to some that his kit is very simple. But there are lots of neat tricks in his kit which only dedicated mains will know. Simply put, his kit is far from simple. I'd say his W is the ability which requires the most mastery to use. A good Noc main will be able to gauge the abilities of other opponents and properly block them. A sub par or new Noc player will most likely waste away his W, or block something that wouldn't have done much to begin with. Although buffing his W as you said would be great, it would make it pretty difficult to peel him away. You would need champs with abilities, such as Tahm's eating ability, who can save Noc's target from dying. With the current W, it is pretty easy to push Noc away from his target, and a good Noc main will realize this, and use his W appropriately, or rely on his team to engage and distract the enemy from the carry.

Some seasons ago Riot gave Fidd and Noc movement speed toward feared champs. Along with this they changed how fear works. Instead of a feared unit moving around in random directions, they made the feared unit run away from the champ who feared it. This, to be quite honest, was a good buff to Nocturne. It allowed him to direct his target to a specific area. The movement speed toward the feared champ also gave him a good buff, allowing him to make his way around the feared unit and direct the unit in any way he pleases. A good Noc main will use this to their advantage and will turn around a feared champ who is trying to run away and direct him to his team, away from turret range, etc.

I like the idea of double healing from Noc's passive on feared champs. That is definitely a buff i would like to see. The damage increase from basic attacks may become a bit overpowered since Noc's fear is already a pretty strong ability. I think it's the second longest fear in the game behind Fiddlesticks . Maybe double healing and damage from passive on feared champs. That could work. It would allow attack speed builds to become a bit stronger that what they are now.

I like the R changes you have in mind, and I think it would be a good addition to his ult. Nocturne is a nightmare after all, so him knowing where low health champs who fear a Noc ult would make sense thematically. Maybe to not make the ult too overpowered, allow him to have vision like you are proposing, but keep the range the same. To be honest though, I would like to see a range increase and a lower cooldown.

You didn't mention anything about his passive. What i would recommend is to add an AD scaling on his passive. That would help quite a bit in the jungle.

Overall, I think Nocturne is in a good position, and buffing him too much would make him too strong. I would consider him quite strong in fact, the only reason he is not trouble is because no one plays him and he falls off. If you really want to realize how strong Nocturne is, play him in mid lane or top lane, where his abilities are more relevant to champs. At level 3, it is very easy to get first blood.

Tl;Dr

All the buffs mentioned above may be overkill. Some buffs i would like to see are adding an AD scaling on his passive. Remove cast time on his Q. Keep his W as it currently is. Maybe increase the damage from passive on feared champs. Definitely increase the healing from passive on feared champs. Either give Noc's ult vision of champs below 20% health, or increase ult range and decrease cooldown.

ShadowPledge1 votes

{quoted}

Before i begin, i am a Noc main, and have been playing him since Season 3. I have 438k mastery points on him.

The Q change would be quite nice, but what are we willing to take away to grant that. Keeping Noc as he is currently and giving that buff would make him quite strong. I think his Q is already a pretty strong ability with the damage it does, the damage buff it gives, and the movement speed. His Q already allows him to escape from champs quite easily. I don't believe you need to allow him to ignore terrain. If I were to buff his Q in any way, i would remove the cast time. This would allow him to escape champs with greater ease, and wouldn't stop his auto attacks to use the ability.

I understand how allowing his Q to ignore terrain would make ganks easier for him, but his early ganks are nowhere as bad as some champs who require ult to gank such as Fiddlesticks and MasterYi . If you tell your laners to allow their lane opponent to push the lane so you can gank, you can easily secure a kill or a flash.

At a glance, looking at Nocturne's kit may reveal to some that his kit is very simple. But there are lots of neat tricks in his kit which only dedicated mains will know. Simply put, his kit is far from simple. I'd say his W is the ability which requires the most mastery to use. A good Noc main will be able to gauge the abilities of other opponents and properly block them. A sub par or new Noc player will most likely waste away his W, or block something that wouldn't have done much to begin with. Although buffing his W as you said would be great, it would make it pretty difficult to peel him away. You would need champs with abilities, such as Tahm's eating ability, who can save Noc's target from dying. With the current W, it is pretty easy to push Noc away from his target, and a good Noc main will realize this, and use his W appropriately, or rely on his team to engage and distract the enemy from the carry.

Some seasons ago Riot gave Fidd and Noc movement speed toward feared champs. Along with this they changed how fear works. Instead of a feared unit moving around in random directions, they made the feared unit run away from the champ who feared it. This, to be quite honest, was a good buff to Nocturne. It allowed him to direct his target to a specific area. The movement speed toward the feared champ also gave him a good buff, allowing him to make his way around the feared unit and direct the unit in any way he pleases. A good Noc main will use this to their advantage and will turn around a feared champ who is trying to run away and direct him to his team, away from turret range, etc.

I like the idea of double healing from Noc's passive on feared champs. That is definitely a buff i would like to see. The damage increase from basic attacks may become a bit overpowered since Noc's fear is already a pretty strong ability. I think it's the second longest fear in the game behind Fiddlesticks . Maybe double healing and damage from passive on feared champs. That could work. It would allow attack speed builds to become a bit stronger that what they are now.

I like the R changes you have in mind, and I think it would be a good addition to his ult. Nocturne is a nightmare after all, so him knowing where low health champs who fear a Noc ult would make sense thematically. Maybe to not make the ult too overpowered, allow him to have vision like you are proposing, but keep the range the same. To be honest though, I would like to see a range increase and a lower cooldown.

You didn't mention anything about his passive. What i would recommend is to add an AD scaling on his passive. That would help quite a bit in the jungle.

Overall, I think Nocturne is in a good position, and buffing him too much would make him too strong. I would consider him quite strong in fact, the only reason he is not trouble is because no one plays him and he falls off. If you really want to realize how strong Nocturne is, play him in mid lane or top lane, where his abilities are more relevant to champs. At level 3, it is very easy to get first blood.

Tl;Dr

All the buffs mentioned above may be overkill. Some buffs i would like to see are adding an AD scaling on his passive. Remove cast time on his Q. Keep his W as it currently is. Maybe increase the damage from passive on feared champs. Definitely increase the healing from passive on feared champs. Either give Noc's ult vision of champs below 20% health, or increase ult range and decrease cooldown.

So honestly I made this post quite quickly and didnt give much thought to everything but let me go a little deeper as to why those particular changes.

first as you introduced yourself, I am a noc main as well although I dont play very much ranked (my only goal is to gain on division higher than the last) and I started playing league mid season 5 when ekko was released in april~may. I currently has 516 236 mastery points on nocturne.

Second, something I didnt mention but I did in a comment post this one, both his passive and E scale with AP which thematically makes sense, but logically or practically doesnt. Since he is afterall an AD assassin.

So his passive needs to maintain sustain as its the only thing in his kit that does so (without drastically changing anything else), The way his healing currently works is going against his play style (let me explain, sorry). So as you know his passive heals him for a fixed amount and then goes on a 10sec cd (lowered by autos, 2 against champs). His playstyle is go in, hopefully one shot, HOPEFULLY get out alive. meaning you arent meant to stay there, you are meant to take out the carry and either escape or die. Yet his passive requires him to stay in a fight. I'm saying that because immediately after ulting you are basic attacking meaning (for the premise of this explanation) you ult, auto, IF you took some dmg you heal it, but its practically no dmg, right off the bat, but now ur passive is on CD... RIP ur sustain, ur dead. 5~10 seconds without any sustain (assuming you cant get every auto in because they can kite you.

Thats the reason I believe his passive is fundamentally flawed for his (curent) kit/playstyle.

His E is quite similar, You no longer have sustain and you are expected to stay within range to fear them after a 2sec delay, (lower level your fear doesnt even last that long, i believe its 1.25/1.5/1.75/2.00/2.25 (which is the same as fiddlesticks). So basically you are putting yourself in danger, in a fight you cant sustain for 2secs when you cant even fear for as long. Noc doesnt build too much attack speed and early game also relies on warrior and duskblade so you'll probably be below 1 attack speed or just hitting it (without W proc). meaning in 1.252 sec fear you'll get 23 autos reducing ur cd on passive by 46 seconds MAYBE 78 if you have attack speed in rune or have proced W. meaning DURING the tiem that they couldnt dmg u, your heal is back up, now u use it again and they are no longer feared and you have no sustain again.

Thats the reason I believe his fear is flawed for his kit. However if his kit provide better sustain, I could see him played a little more like a bruiser.

So maybe his tether should "steal" hp from the enemy (draining their mentality, so to speak) and heal for a % of hp, enemy max hp, nocturne missing hp, or something of the like.

Now to respond to what you said a little bit better. His Q is his bread and butter for his kit, clearing, killing, chasing, escaping. However, it lacks in all of those domains at the same time. clearing: high mana cost. Killing: actually this is good, they just buffed the projectile speed, which was my only issue with it. Chasing: yes you need to land it, but the movement speed you get is little compared to the amount of mobility champs now a days have. Escaping: easily predictable, forced to stay on it, and if they do catch up (which they can) you cant turn around as your primary source of dmg is gone. Now im not saying to change any of that. Simply adding ignoring terrain collision would help clears and early ganks, allowing him to do more without making it any better in duels (since it doesnt increase dmg and simply allows him to escape maybe).

Also I dont know if you've tried Fiddle lately but his ganks are very good and due to runic echoes changes you dont need (but should anyway) to back until you hit 6 without using hp pots. The only back you need b4 that is to get lost chapter (which now builds into runic echoes).

Master Yi has a poor gank due to no cc, however his early game may lack but that is his kit. He is a hyper carry, what he lacks in the early game he makes up for in teamfights late game. So comparing him to nocturne isnt even remotely related as their power spikes, strengths and weaknesses are completely different.

And no matter how good you are W can only block one cc, GL with support's cc, adc cc, tanks cc, jg cc, even fiora can technically stun you (unlikely, but can under certain situations, and at the very least her reposte will slow). And You can get cced during flight of R, and yes, you can cast w during flight as well, but the moment you land, if it did block an ability you no longer have it up and will be cced and killed.

Obviously utilizing the fear changes to make the person run into your team is important and simplay placing urself behind him is important for when they use their mobility or flash. (because it makes sure ur still in range because otherwise they would escape as, ur q will be on cd and so is your fear and the gank would have been useless).

R cd shouldnt be changed as u'll build cdr in items and runes, with ultimate hat and ultimate hunter (as of patch 8.11) reducing it to approx 40~55 secs. Which gives you time to gank, farm, recall, repeat.

Fazor1 votes

Your points do make more sense now that you've explained them.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like you'd like Noc to be stronger in the early game. Given the buffs you have mentioned, they would most benefit his early game, and fall off when he has enough items to burst someone down, given you go full AD. I think Noc could use some early game buffs. It would help his ganks pre six and benefit his clear as well. The Q buffs you mentioned would help is early ganks and jungle path, the E buffs would help him sustain the jungle clear. The way i play Nocturne has always been to farm to six and then begin ganking. I do not gank very much before six unless there is a free kill or a lane is pushed to our turret. Early game buffs could very much change that playstyle and allow Noc to help out the team in the early game which is of utmost importance nowadays.

I think the question we should ask ourselves is what is Nocturne's identity? Is he a bruiser or an assassin? Should he build attack speed or full AD? Or maybe he should build AP with attack speed given his passive and fear (it can work, but not very well.) As you said, his passive and fear are weird to his kit if he goes full AD, but work well with a bruiser/attack speed build. When you go full AD, fear doesn't proc as often and isn't as important since you are bursting someone down. But when you go bruiser, those abilities become quite important. If we can identify what Nocturne really is, we can build his kit around that. But unfortunately, his kit will have to be changed in some way to create that identity. I don't mind the fact at all that you can build both bruiser and full AD on him, actually, i think it's quite important in a time where most champs can only be played one way.

I personally still think Nocturne's kit is fine, maybe some early game buffs would be good for him, but other than that and the buffs i mentioned in my original comment, i don't think he needs to be changed. It does seem kind of weird that some parts of his kit scream assassin while others are for bruisers, but his kit is from a time when champs could be played in many different roles with a multitude of builds.

ShadowPledge1 votes

{quoted}

Your points do make more sense now that you've explained them.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like you'd like Noc to be stronger in the early game. Given the buffs you have mentioned, they would most benefit his early game, and fall off when he has enough items to burst someone down, given you go full AD. I think Noc could use some early game buffs. It would help his ganks pre six and benefit his clear as well. The Q buffs you mentioned would help is early ganks and jungle path, the E buffs would help him sustain the jungle clear. The way i play Nocturne has always been to farm to six and then begin ganking. I do not gank very much before six unless there is a free kill or a lane is pushed to our turret. Early game buffs could very much change that playstyle and allow Noc to help out the team in the early game which is of utmost importance nowadays.

I think the question we should ask ourselves is what is Nocturne's identity? Is he a bruiser or an assassin? Should he build attack speed or full AD? Or maybe he should build AP with attack speed given his passive and fear (it can work, but not very well.) As you said, his passive and fear are weird to his kit if he goes full AD, but work well with a bruiser/attack speed build. When you go full AD, fear doesn't proc as often and isn't as important since you are bursting someone down. But when you go bruiser, those abilities become quite important. If we can identify what Nocturne really is, we can build his kit around that. But unfortunately, his kit will have to be changed in some way to create that identity. I don't mind the fact at all that you can build both bruiser and full AD on him, actually, i think it's quite important in a time where most champs can only be played one way.

I personally still think Nocturne's kit is fine, maybe some early game buffs would be good for him, but other than that and the buffs i mentioned in my original comment, i don't think he needs to be changed. It does seem kind of weird that some parts of his kit scream assassin while others are for bruisers, but his kit is from a time when champs could be played in many different roles with a multitude of builds.

if you want role diversity play, lee sin, Vi, camille. Champions who usually go bruiser (and scale better than noc, have better early game then noc, and better late game then noc) because if those champs are ahead, they can go full ad assassin.

The fact that noc can be played with multiple builds (with his current kit) is what makes him weak at everything, for any role you seek, there is a better champ for that position (and yes im admitting that even as a noc main myself)

you want a dive assassin meant to take out carries while easily accessing the back line, Rengar you want a bruiser who can access the back line but can provide tankiness, Vi (her cc is faster) want a champ that can utilize their ult in any situation but can make picks? Lee want an early gank (NOT NOC, sorry) Xin Want a splitpusher? Tryn, Xin Want a tank? Naut, volibear, mundo Want a level 6 god, Fiddlesticks, kindred, twitch

no matter what role you want to fill, someone else is better at it then Noc.

JoeMG1 votes

As a fellow Noc main, I agree his kit could use a bit of modernization. Having his Q let him pass through terrain is interesting. It would speed up his overall clear and could allow him to follow targets that have blinks/dashes that can also go through terrain.

I also like the idea of making his W last a duration, kind of like Morg. Even something like .75 secs would help him dive successfully late game.

Maybe it'sban unpopular opinion, but I like his E as it is. You can use it to lock down a target, fear away someone that's chasing you, or I also like using it for self peel if you are engaging a duo - ult a target and fear the non-target so they have to leave their teammate to die, or get feared allowing you to more easily kill them both.

I don't like having his ult grant vision on low health targets. It's one of the best ults in the game IMO and it would make securing kills too easy. What might be a cool ult change is adding a brief AoE fear when his ult connects, kind of like Darius' ult. That would allow him to dive very successfully. Obviously he wouldn't need the W change if this was the case.

If nothing else, they could at least add some scaling to his passive and maybe a MS buff on his Q.

ShadowPledge1 votes

{quoted}

As a fellow Noc main, I agree his kit could use a bit of modernization. Having his Q let him pass through terrain is interesting. It would speed up his overall clear and could allow him to follow targets that have blinks/dashes that can also go through terrain.

I also like the idea of making his W last a duration, kind of like Morg. Even something like .75 secs would help him dive successfully late game.

Maybe it'sban unpopular opinion, but I like his E as it is. You can use it to lock down a target, fear away someone that's chasing you, or I also like using it for self peel if you are engaging a duo - ult a target and fear the non-target so they have to leave their teammate to die, or get feared allowing you to more easily kill them both.

I don't like having his ult grant vision on low health targets. It's one of the best ults in the game IMO and it would make securing kills too easy. What might be a cool ult change is adding a brief AoE fear when his ult connects, kind of like Darius' ult. That would allow him to dive very successfully. Obviously he wouldn't need the W change if this was the case.

If nothing else, they could at least add some scaling to his passive and maybe a MS buff on his Q.

the ult would only grant vision to nocturne, not his allies and only if they are below a certain threshold, maybe 15% maybe 20% but on top of this nocturne still needs to be in range to ult to them. And if a champ isnt in a fight, and is super low. chances are, they are recalling deep in their lane. meaning not only would you need to get in range, but you would have to go deep and get in range, cast ult, choose, target, and fly to them, b4 the 7 sec recall is finished

PhearBunny1 votes

His ult is terrible in comparison to other assassin ults, You can literally dodge its damage with a certain amount of movespeed or a dash...its awful especially considering its CD, and how suicidal it is(since theres no such thing as an isolated squishy) He actually functions better as a hypercarry, like Tryndamere, Yi, or Jax, the problem is he doesn't have the survival mechanics that they have. He's all in, and in a very anti-assassin, anti diver state of the game, it puts him in a bad position in virtually every matchup. The champ is confused.

His ult screams assassin, the rest of his kit screams hypercarry. one of those two things need to change, and he needs an identity, rather than being below average at both roles.

ShadowPledge1 votes

I dont really agree with hyper carry xD. Since his game curve gets worse the later into the game :P however his kit fights between

assassin and fighter (since he is classified as assassin/fighter) which is what makes him less powerful compared to others

PhearBunny1 votes

The best way to describe Nocturnes identity would be- He is a flexible piece of shlt. Does the comp call for an assassin? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt assassin. Does the comp call for a bruiser? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt bruiser. Does the comp call for a hypercarry or tank buster? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt hypercarry/tank buster. Does the comp call for a tank? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt tank. His flexibility is a huge part of his power budget, which causes him to be below average at everything, but completely capable of doing everything...really badly.

You cant really buff him because the champ is just a walking stat stick. He needs to be reworked.

Lambdacode1 votes

I hate to be that guy, since I once was a nocturne main I wanted to point out the fact that since his release he already looked like he was "inspired" by Spectre from dota 2, so removing the terrain collision from his Q would just make him even more like it, same with the ult that reveals enemies. Anyway it makes sense to uupgrade his kit since now we have such mobile champions like irelia etc that make him too much "old school" and the ability to go through walls should have been added from the beginning imo, it was clearly derivative from dota but who cares.

ShadowPledge1 votes

Honestly, I've never played Dota so I didn't know, my bad. However, I only based myself off the fact that his lore is outdated and his thematic feel (if you will. I cant think of the proper words for it). But basically he is a nightmare/Ghost a non-physical being. It would have been cool to see an update with an absence of terrain collision.

Which, some may say is op but when you consider his Q as bread and butter for his kit. (movement speed and att dmg) using it simply to go through a wall, seems to me like a fair trade off. You could ganks from blue tri bush like zac (just no instant cc) and u'd have less dmg.

Also I posted this so long ago I thought it was dead, THX for the comment :P

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