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New Jungle, New Nocturne

ShadowPledge·5/25/2018, 5:56:41 PM·5 votes·3,612 views

Q ignores unit collision (unchanged) but it should allow terrain collision to be ignored too (only while he is on his dusktrail). Pretty much, this allows nocturne to have better ganks without using ult but he then loses lots of dmg for the gank and has to rely on fear. (which I seem to think is fair). And would increase his clears. Unlike kayn, nocturne can be in combat to do this, but entering the wall doesnt heal him or give him any benefits,other than maybe escaping.

W Same cost but instead of lasting 1.5 secs, it would last 1 sec and would block every ability during that one sec, not just one. (the spellshield lasts the full duration, but he is vulnerable to auto attacks and item actives and such) If a single ability was blocked he gains his regular bonuses. Nothing more for blocking more, this simply makes it so pleople cant just stack all their cc on you the moment you ult in, but if they delay it by 1sec they can still cc chain you.

E (ok disclaimer, why TF does this give mvmt spd when approaching feared targets, it has a short range already and usually the only time u get it off is IF they lived ur ult engage, or you used q to chase them already, meaning you already had all the mvmt spd necessary. if anything it should give movement speed towards tethered targets. but.) Disclaimer done. Remove the movement speed. Any feared targets takes 10% more dmg from nocturne (wasnt sure if it should be from all of nocturnes kit, or simply his basic attacks, to me it makes more sense to just say feared targets take 10% more dmg from nocturne's basic attacks) and doubles his healing from umbra blades (when the primary target is the feared one).

R slight range increase (one flash range pretty much). any enemy champion below 20% is revealed to nocturne. (gives nocturne vision of them. but you would only see as much as you would from Quinn blind, so you cant see whos around them, unless tehy are on each other)

23 Comments

PhearBunny5/25/2018, 6:15:13 PM3 votes

Nocturnes kit fundamentally isn't capable of being "good". Hes viable, but will never be good again.

The issue is, every month this game gets increasingly more hyper mobile, and increasingly too much damage, which essentially means for the past 4 years and onward his only realistic way to reach a target, is to press R(one of the longest cooldowns in the game). And generally he dies afterwards. So ,once every 120seconds or so, he can actually realistically reach a target....in a game where atleast half of the champ pool can just effortlessly disengage away from him. Flash away from him. Zhonyas, GA, Ninja Tabi, Deaths Dance, PD...in a meta where the only isolated target youre ever going to find to assassinate(with R), is some split push god champ, that will roflstomp you. he's limited by mana, with big mana costs.

Nocturne needs a reliable engage, a reliable escape, and a new resource system. They should probably swap his Q and his R(drastically reduce the range of it) and make his R just a bunch of Duskbringer homing missles that fire off in a decently large radius, that allow him to ignore terrain like you said, and retain the current effects of duskbringer.+60AD/avoid unit collision.

And yes I'm aware you can reach 40s CD on Paranoia with runes and 40% CDR. Before anyone says anything about the 120s CD.

HalcyonDweller5/25/2018, 6:16:23 PM1 votes

I like most of these suggestions, have an upvote and a bump. +1

PokladnicaZla5/25/2018, 7:42:51 PM1 votes

Changing his Q would be amazing,but people seems to ignore how much power you actually add to a champions kit.

Fazor5/25/2018, 9:19:48 PM1 votes

Before i begin, i am a Noc main, and have been playing him since Season 3. I have 438k mastery points on him.

The Q change would be quite nice, but what are we willing to take away to grant that. Keeping Noc as he is currently and giving that buff would make him quite strong. I think his Q is already a pretty strong ability with the damage it does, the damage buff it gives, and the movement speed. His Q already allows him to escape from champs quite easily. I don't believe you need to allow him to ignore terrain. If I were to buff his Q in any way, i would remove the cast time. This would allow him to escape champs with greater ease, and wouldn't stop his auto attacks to use the ability.

I understand how allowing his Q to ignore terrain would make ganks easier for him, but his early ganks are nowhere as bad as some champs who require ult to gank such as Fiddlesticks and MasterYi . If you tell your laners to allow their lane opponent to push the lane so you can gank, you can easily secure a kill or a flash.

At a glance, looking at Nocturne's kit may reveal to some that his kit is very simple. But there are lots of neat tricks in his kit which only dedicated mains will know. Simply put, his kit is far from simple. I'd say his W is the ability which requires the most mastery to use. A good Noc main will be able to gauge the abilities of other opponents and properly block them. A sub par or new Noc player will most likely waste away his W, or block something that wouldn't have done much to begin with. Although buffing his W as you said would be great, it would make it pretty difficult to peel him away. You would need champs with abilities, such as Tahm's eating ability, who can save Noc's target from dying. With the current W, it is pretty easy to push Noc away from his target, and a good Noc main will realize this, and use his W appropriately, or rely on his team to engage and distract the enemy from the carry.

Some seasons ago Riot gave Fidd and Noc movement speed toward feared champs. Along with this they changed how fear works. Instead of a feared unit moving around in random directions, they made the feared unit run away from the champ who feared it. This, to be quite honest, was a good buff to Nocturne. It allowed him to direct his target to a specific area. The movement speed toward the feared champ also gave him a good buff, allowing him to make his way around the feared unit and direct the unit in any way he pleases. A good Noc main will use this to their advantage and will turn around a feared champ who is trying to run away and direct him to his team, away from turret range, etc.

I like the idea of double healing from Noc's passive on feared champs. That is definitely a buff i would like to see. The damage increase from basic attacks may become a bit overpowered since Noc's fear is already a pretty strong ability. I think it's the second longest fear in the game behind Fiddlesticks . Maybe double healing and damage from passive on feared champs. That could work. It would allow attack speed builds to become a bit stronger that what they are now.

I like the R changes you have in mind, and I think it would be a good addition to his ult. Nocturne is a nightmare after all, so him knowing where low health champs who fear a Noc ult would make sense thematically. Maybe to not make the ult too overpowered, allow him to have vision like you are proposing, but keep the range the same. To be honest though, I would like to see a range increase and a lower cooldown.

You didn't mention anything about his passive. What i would recommend is to add an AD scaling on his passive. That would help quite a bit in the jungle.

Overall, I think Nocturne is in a good position, and buffing him too much would make him too strong. I would consider him quite strong in fact, the only reason he is not trouble is because no one plays him and he falls off. If you really want to realize how strong Nocturne is, play him in mid lane or top lane, where his abilities are more relevant to champs. At level 3, it is very easy to get first blood.

Tl;Dr

All the buffs mentioned above may be overkill. Some buffs i would like to see are adding an AD scaling on his passive. Remove cast time on his Q. Keep his W as it currently is. Maybe increase the damage from passive on feared champs. Definitely increase the healing from passive on feared champs. Either give Noc's ult vision of champs below 20% health, or increase ult range and decrease cooldown.

JoeMG5/25/2018, 11:22:27 PM1 votes

As a fellow Noc main, I agree his kit could use a bit of modernization. Having his Q let him pass through terrain is interesting. It would speed up his overall clear and could allow him to follow targets that have blinks/dashes that can also go through terrain.

I also like the idea of making his W last a duration, kind of like Morg. Even something like .75 secs would help him dive successfully late game.

Maybe it'sban unpopular opinion, but I like his E as it is. You can use it to lock down a target, fear away someone that's chasing you, or I also like using it for self peel if you are engaging a duo - ult a target and fear the non-target so they have to leave their teammate to die, or get feared allowing you to more easily kill them both.

I don't like having his ult grant vision on low health targets. It's one of the best ults in the game IMO and it would make securing kills too easy. What might be a cool ult change is adding a brief AoE fear when his ult connects, kind of like Darius' ult. That would allow him to dive very successfully. Obviously he wouldn't need the W change if this was the case.

If nothing else, they could at least add some scaling to his passive and maybe a MS buff on his Q.

PhearBunny5/26/2018, 12:52:58 AM1 votes

His ult is terrible in comparison to other assassin ults, You can literally dodge its damage with a certain amount of movespeed or a dash...its awful especially considering its CD, and how suicidal it is(since theres no such thing as an isolated squishy) He actually functions better as a hypercarry, like Tryndamere, Yi, or Jax, the problem is he doesn't have the survival mechanics that they have. He's all in, and in a very anti-assassin, anti diver state of the game, it puts him in a bad position in virtually every matchup. The champ is confused.

His ult screams assassin, the rest of his kit screams hypercarry. one of those two things need to change, and he needs an identity, rather than being below average at both roles.

PhearBunny5/26/2018, 5:36:01 PM1 votes

The best way to describe Nocturnes identity would be- He is a flexible piece of shlt. Does the comp call for an assassin? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt assassin. Does the comp call for a bruiser? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt bruiser. Does the comp call for a hypercarry or tank buster? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt hypercarry/tank buster. Does the comp call for a tank? Hes capable of being a piece of shlt tank. His flexibility is a huge part of his power budget, which causes him to be below average at everything, but completely capable of doing everything...really badly.

You cant really buff him because the champ is just a walking stat stick. He needs to be reworked.

Lambdacode8/27/2018, 7:54:15 PM1 votes

I hate to be that guy, since I once was a nocturne main I wanted to point out the fact that since his release he already looked like he was "inspired" by Spectre from dota 2, so removing the terrain collision from his Q would just make him even more like it, same with the ult that reveals enemies. Anyway it makes sense to uupgrade his kit since now we have such mobile champions like irelia etc that make him too much "old school" and the ability to go through walls should have been added from the beginning imo, it was clearly derivative from dota but who cares.