How I would change POPPY. (Poppy Mains review pls)

Freedom Dividend··3 votes·2,691 views

Base Stat changes

Movement speed reduced from 345 to 335. Attack damage increased from 64 to 67 Mana reduced from 280 to 240. Armor reduced from 38 to 35. Health increased from 540 to 600. Health per level scaling increased from +90 to +120. Attack range increased from 125 to 135.

Ability Changes

Iron ambassador magic damage bonus REMOVED. Iron ambassador now grants 30/40/50% bonus attack speed for 4 seconds when picked up. Iron ambassador now grants 5/10/15% bonus movement speed for 1 second when picked up.

Hammershock base damage from 40 to 120 REMOVED. Hammershock scaling from 80% of bonus AD REMOVED. Hammershock percentage of target's maximum health changed from 8% physical damage to 5% true damage. Hammershock scales 100% of total AD in physical damage and 80% of total AP in magic damage. Hammershock now has (2) charges. A new charge every 12/11/10/9/8 seconds. Hammershock range increased from 430 to 510. Hammershock enhances your next auto-attack with 1.5 seconds of Grievous Wounds.

Steadfast Presence mana cost changed from 50 to 40/60/80/100/120. Steadfast Presence range increased from 400 to 450. Steadfast Presence cooldown decreased from 24/22/20/18/16 to 18/17/16/15/14 seconds. Steadfast Presence bonus movement speed increased from 32/34/36/38/40% to 50/55/60/65/70%. Steadfast Presence length of time reduced from 2.5 seconds to 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds. Steadfast Presence now causes a 20% slow for 1 second to any targets affected.

Heroic Charge range increased from 425 to 650. Heroic Charge push distance is now how far poppy travels. Heroic Charge is no longer a click on cast but instead a target freely and move forward. Heroic Charge can push multiple targets or even an entire team but cannot go over walls. Heroic Charge base damage from 60 to 140 REMOVED. Heroic Charge damage scaling changed from +50% bonus AD REMOVED. Heroic Charge deals out 80% of total AD in physical damage and 50% of total AP in magic damage. Heroic Charge terrain collision base and AD scaling REMOVED. Heroic Charge terrain collision now deals true damage equal to 5% of Poppy's maximum health. Heroic Charge terrain collision now causes a 10/15/20/25/30% reduction in armor, magic resistance, and movement speed reduction for all struck targets, lasting 4 seconds. Heroic Charge terrain collision empowers poppy with 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds.

Keepers Verdict cooldown reduced from 140/120/100 to 100/80/60 seconds. Keepers Verdict base damage from 200 to 400 REMOVED. Keepers Verdict scaling of 90% bonus AD REMOVED. Keepers Verdict now deals physical damage equal to 10/15/20% of Poppy's maximum health.

18 Comments

sho ayane3 votes

Ok so I am a Poppy one trick and I will give you my opinion,

Movement speed reduced from 345 to 335. Attack damage increased from 64 to 67 Mana reduced from 280 to 240. Armor reduced from 38 to 35. Health increased from 540 to 600. Health per level scaling increased from +90 to +120. Attack range increased from 125 to 135.

I don't like reducing the movement speed, we need it to land our e stun. We don't need more attack damage this is mostly useless for us. Poppy has one of the lowest mana pools in the game, lowering that would make early game difficult which Poppy should be best in. You haven't mentioned the passive part of Steadfast Presence, if it is staying the same, I don't really like the decrease in armour. More health level 1 is nice, but not needed. More health scaling is very overpowered, we can easily hit 3800+ without this increase you mention. We use our q for short range poke, and our passive for longer range poke, I don't see why her attack range should be changed and I see no immediate benefit for +10 attack range.

Iron ambassador magic damage bonus REMOVED. Iron ambassador now grants 30/40/50% bonus attack speed for 4 seconds when picked up. Iron ambassador now grants 5/10/15% bonus movement speed for 1 second when picked up.

You might this you buffed the passive with your changes, but I do not agree here, this magic damage is very important for securing kills (20 magic damage lvl1) and we depend on that magic damage to kill enemy top laners who are tanky. I see little benefit for bonus attack speed, we use item 3025 so we auto q auto then run away as q is 90% of our damage so more as isn't helpful. The movement speed could be too strong, perhaps if it was active while moving towards the buckler it would make sense, however I believe the passive is strong already and has good scaling.

"Hammershock base damage from 40 to 120 REMOVED. Hammershock scaling from 80% of bonus AD REMOVED. Hammershock percentage of target's maximum health changed from 8% physical damage to 5% true damage. Hammershock scales 100% of total AD in physical damage and 80% of total AP in magic damage. Hammershock now has (2) charges. A new charge every 10/9/8/7/6 seconds. Hammershock range increased from 430 to 510. Hammershock enhances your next auto-attack with 1.5 seconds of Grievous Wounds."

All this is absolutely ridiculous, our q is incredibly strong already, removing the 80% does nothing for us unless you are troll building. Imo our q is our most broken ability.

Steadfast Presence mana cost changed from 50 to 40/60/80/100/120. Steadfast Presence range increased from 400 to 450. Steadfast Presence cooldown decreased from 24/22/20/18/16 to 18/17/16/15/14 seconds. Steadfast Presence bonus movement speed increased from 32/34/36/38/40% to 50/55/60/65/70%. Steadfast Presence length of time reduced from 2.5 seconds to 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds. Steadfast Presence now causes a 20% slow for 1 second to any targets affected.

You already reduced our maximum mana, which I think at that point would make her have the smallest mana pool in the game (or one of the smallest) We don't need more range, the duration is very small already you need skill and practice to use it effectively, considering the fact it only blocks one champions dash and now would only last 1 sec level 1 (we max this last 70% of the time) it would be too difficult to protect our team. More bonus movement speed lol we don't need it. A 20% slow for one second? they get stunned for about one second already if they dash into it (might be half a second not really sure) so I that may be a waste of code anyway you might want to check that.

Heroic Charge range increased from 425 to 650.

This is too much of a buff and would make our champion broken, consider a smaller buff

Heroic Charge push distance is now how far poppy travels.

I personally believe this is not needed at all, this would just allow poppy noobies to have an easy time

Heroic Charge is no longer a click on cast but instead a target freely and move forward.

Like a shen e? I can see that happening, however, why would we need w movement speed if we had this?

Heroic Charge can push multiple targets or even an entire team but cannot go over walls.

I think this is a bad idea, lvl5 e is a 2s stun, we don't need this and will just make her easier to play or more broken

Heroic Charge base damage from 60 to 140 REMOVED. Heroic Charge damage scaling changed from +50% bonus AD REMOVED. Heroic Charge deals out 80% of total AD in physical damage and 50% of total AP in magic damage.

We don't need any of this, we already had a buff from item 3068 which gives us a lot of magic damage, increase the ad and ap ratio when we don't build ad or ap, okay I don't know why you would do that. We need that base damage 60 isn't enough.

Heroic Charge terrain collision base and AD scaling REMOVED.

Didn't you just say this already? I don't agree

Heroic Charge terrain collision now deals true damage equal to 5% of Poppy's maximum health.

Absolutely ridiculously broken, the q has massive amounts of max health damage allowing us to solo tanks in lane, for late game we don't kill tanks so we don't need it. Would be fun though I won't lie about that :p

Heroic Charge terrain collision now causes a 10/15/20/25/30% reduction in armor, magic resistance, and movement speed reduction for all struck targets, lasting 4 seconds.

Ok, so you e the enemy adc on live servers and they get a 2 sec stun and die instantly. You want to 2 sec stun on a 10 sec cooldown (0% CDR) followed by scaling armour and mr shred and a movement speed slow for the 2 sec stun and 2 seconds afterwards. May I say you have been imaginative thinking about this xD. If we recall your previous changes we have true damage now so we wouldn't need ar mr shred, we don't need this shred anyway we can beat every tank if you know what you are doing. Movement reduction? we don't need this because whenever we hit someone into the wall we always use the q afterwards, which has a stronger slow making yours redundant.

Heroic Charge terrain collision empowers poppy with 30% damage reduction for 3 seconds. We don't have a problem with not being able to tank enough damage I would say, even if you changed it to 30% tenacity for 3 sec I wouldn't say we need that either.

Keepers Verdict cooldown reduced from 140/120/100 to 100/80/60 seconds. Keepers Verdict base damage from 200 to 400 REMOVED. Keepers Verdict scaling of 90% bonus AD REMOVED. Keepers Verdict now deals physical damage equal to 10/15/20% of Poppy's maximum health.

Shorter cooldown in wonderful I wish they would do it in game ;-; Removing scaling doesn't really do much as you shouldn't buy ad anyway. Love the last point by the way is very creative but is clearly broken. I'm Poppy with 3000 hp, a fully charged keepers verdict would do 600 damage, which is nice I suppose but having a the best disengage tool in the game do 600 damage without any offensive items on such a large range is very broken. Just a shorter cooldown is fine.

I had a lot of fun reading through your ideas thanks a lot :) I don't know if you play Poppy at all but she isn't as trash as people make her out to be. If you were in Riot's balance team and this was shipped we would see the old Poppy meta start up again which everyone hated. Looking through this reminded me how simple it is to make an average champion ridiculously over-powered, and Poppy has been very broken in the past so we must be careful with how we deal with her. Poppy is a very strong champion however you must understand how she works. Many people pick her up expecting her to be easy and simple like Garen and they lose and never play her again calling her trash which is very sad :/. Once you master Poppy you can easily climb the ladder.

www.op.gg/summoner/userName=소환대전큐이 This Korean got to Rank 4 playing Poppy every game, although he is now rank 54, Poppy is a strong champion to play and a prime champion to one trick because of her low pick and ban rate.

Thanks for entertaining me and please feel free to constructively criticise my opinions on your work. :)[poppy-wink]

Freedom Dividend1 votes

Thanks!! Very in depth! I'll respond with my reasonings.

Mana costs and Mana base stat being lowered is to ensure poppy must manage her Mana wisely, get a large Mana item or oddly use clarity. This allows the balance team to itemize her a limitation.

Movement speed reduction makes sense I think. It's a small yordle carrying a large hammer, it would be a hassle and slow her down. In contrast, a major presence speed boost allows her to burst forward for great positioning on heroic charge.

Heroic Charge changes allow her even safer escapes which means she can be the very front line of fights and objectives. In addition the heroic charge range increase is also a decrease as before she has 425 + another 300 and here it's just a flat 650 and ends. She gets more potential uses but can miss and not travel as far as a Max range click of the current ability. And my favorite aspect is you can no longer be vision trolled in top lane brush. If you think you know their position you can charge forward blindly with great potential for wall slam.

The Q is good but here it has an extra second of cool down in exchange for an initial benefit of 2 charges. Can farm a little better with extra range. Stronger against people who want to 1 on 1 for quick snips using Grievous Wounds in lane. Keeping in mind poppy will still not hit harder then nasus Q could with these abilities. This simply is providing a benefit to damage builds. BUT if you go heavy health, you miss out on other damages given all base stats of almost all other abilities are more or less gone. Heavy tank Poppy's no longer would have a very strong Q early or midgame. It would be just good. With more reliance in the tank build on collision slams and ulti knockups. New playstyles emerge. What seems overpowered would instead round out based on build pathing and the base damage being removed from 3 abilities. As a result i increased the AD by a few on base stat poppy.

Steadfast Prescense still would have the resistances boost that is currently on live.

Anything that is removed from the kit ought to be listed.

Terrain collision damage reduction is intended to allow poppy be further pushed as the potential front liner or play maker of most team comps when building tank. Can give her the ability to soak up damage from an aggressive play setup or be the burst as an aggressive bruiser.

Passive change allows damage builds to capitalize better than a tank build would. Furthering the playstyle differences. Both would be viable.

sho ayane1 votes

Okay I now understand your reasoning, even though I don't agree with large parts, it was still fun anyway. May I ask what you build on Poppy normally?

Freedom Dividend1 votes

{quoted}

Okay I now understand your reasoning, even though I don't agree with large parts, it was still fun anyway. May I ask what you build on Poppy normally?

I don't play her as much as I once did and certainly not as much as I did the poppy back in the early days of league (which I loved). This would be a build I'd do, with variation if necessary by the champions they select and how they build.

Mercury Treads Deadman's Plate Iceborn Gauntlet Sterak's Gage Adaptive Helm Randuin's Omen

sho ayane2 votes

Well its not what I build, but it makes sense. Thanks for letting me know, it explains some of your points :)

webstar11082 votes

I agree that he E should be fixed. CC'ing one person as a tank is lackluster. Her ult doesn't count.

FrostlySpark2 votes

AP POPPY POGGERS

Vid the Strange1 votes

Is there a reason you suggested changes for Poppy's old Q rather than her new one? You didn't even mention reverting it.

Freedom Dividend1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EWeaqk2z,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-23T16:23:41.494+0000)

Is there a reason you suggested changes for Poppy's old Q rather than her new one? You didn't even mention reverting it.

Not intended. Great catch. Changed.

Terakali1 votes

Max HP scaling true damage, both hers and the targets, and a 25% max HP physical damage ratio. Do you want another Cho'Gath? Cause this is what you get.

Freedom Dividend1 votes

{quoted}

Max HP scaling true damage, both hers and the targets, and a 25% max HP physical damage ratio. Do you want another Cho'Gath? Cause this is what you get.

In a way yes. I want her to embrace the health build while allowing an AP, AD or attack speed to be viability mixed in. Offset is she's rather slow when Prescense is gone. Prescense still buffs resistances which is a trade-off if she builds health instead. She has to hit them into terrain for the major true damage. She has to play Tactically to reach Cho damage and still doesn't have his silence, range, healing or health maximum.

Terakali1 votes

Range doesn't matter with the dash, healing only matters in lane- which she already has a really oppressive presence without giving her true damage- and the free HP is neatly countered by the anti-dash, actually having a mobility skill, extra range, and her CC ultimate.

PeachyBubbleStar1 votes

the stun duration on her e should stay the same, it's already hard af to land that stun half the time, and she NEEDS the stun to ensure landing her q

Freedom Dividend1 votes

{quoted}

the stun duration on her e should stay the same, it's already hard af to land that stun half the time, and she NEEDS the stun to ensure landing her q

It's an offset for allowing her to stun and highly damage multiple champions. In doing so she could prevent them from jumping away as well with presence. It could be really nasty with the current stun length. Not against it but I played to caution. 1.25 seconds may be a better balance.

Onotori1 votes

So... remove any and all damage from her kit in exchange for more CC? How about we don't? The better change is to go back to where her rework put her in season 5 (you know, when everyone thought she was bad, but was fine if you spent two seconds playing her).

But that makes much sense, and Poppy would be viable, which isn't what Riot wants.

Freedom Dividend1 votes

{quoted}

So... remove any and all damage from her kit in exchange for more CC? How about we don't? The better change is to go back to where her rework put her in season 5 (you know, when everyone thought she was bad, but was fine if you spent two seconds playing her).

But that makes much sense, and Poppy would be viable, which isn't what Riot wants.

Lowering the CC to allow her to be super burst fast, push multiple targets, and become a bigger playmaker. And her kit here deals more damage I think. At least from my calculations. Teams would fear a poppy coming from behind them far more with this kit. Not that I disagree. I love old old poppy with tower dive/ team dive ult.

Late For Tea1 votes

Nerfing her base movement speed by so much will gut her ability to position for E. Yes you get more MS on W, but you shouldn't be dependent on W to land your Heroic Charge.

Also nerfing so much of her kit for scaling damage in late game isn't going to do her much good. Her damage is less important lategame, as she has carries to rely on for that. She needs the CC, and nerfing the CC on her E isn't going to help her at all (stunning multiple enemies is likely not possible, since its a linear ability. One target would hit the wall, the others will get stunned into other champs?). You should be rewarded by landing a good W with damage.

Those max HP ratios on her E and R are insane.

Honestly I'm really not sure where you want to go with her.

Freedom Dividend1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Tea,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EWeaqk2z,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-23T18:56:36.887+0000)

Nerfing her base movement speed by so much will gut her ability to position for E. Yes you get more MS on W, but you shouldn't be dependent on W to land your Heroic Charge.

Also nerfing so much of her kit for scaling damage in late game isn't going to do her much goo. Her damage is less important lategame, as she has carries to rely on for that. She needs the CC, and nerfing the CC on her E isn't going to help her at all (stunning multiple enemies is likely not possible, since its a linear ability. One target would hit the wall, the others will get stunned into other champs?). You should be rewarded by landing a good W with damage.

Valid. I think the W thought is you are already rewarded with blocking their leap,etc. The super speed allows great positioning for the charge or an impressive escape. But if they chase a long way her low movement from carrying that heavy hammer would kick in. Stunning multiple enemies would be based on how much width we give her charge. I kind of left it open but I was thinking about 60 to 70% of an Azir ult size. She'd turn her hammer sideways and push them all or something. In regards to her damage output it's not all that much lower in early game. The huge change is before it was base stat + bonus ad and now it's total ad/ap at higher scaling which kicks in a similar value after 1 item. The changes aimed for an ability for poppy to scare teams. They see her jogging up from behind and know she can burst forward and disposition their team. She has higher health too.

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