Royal Guard Fiora Refund post-VU?

SpaceMonkey3000·Aug 1, 2015·25 votes·6,109 views

With the drastic change in the look of Royal Guard Fiora can we request refunds for the skin?

39 Comments

RiotmoonstonesAug 1, 201510 votes

Hiya SpaceMonkey3000,

Unfortunately, we are no longer offering refunds for post-reworked/updated content. For more information regarding the decision, check out this Red Post.

LuciferAug 1, 201524 votes

You should for this skin, since you drastically changed it.

Krys StarAug 1, 201519 votes

Riot's too arrogant to do such a thing. It's not like they have to give us a refund in money spent. A refund in RP is good enough. But Riot probably too lazy to refund the many unsatisfied players. It's their indirect way of "shove it and get over it." =\ Riot became less about the players two years ago, when they started getting all these new faces.

XonraAug 1, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Krys Teare Star,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:54:29.556+0000)

Riot's too arrogant to do such a thing. It's not like they have to give us a refund in money spent. A refund in RP is good enough. But Riot probably too lazy to refund the many unsatisfied players. It's their indirect way of "shove it and get over it." =\ Riot became less about the players two years ago, when they started getting all these new faces.

Downvotes from the fanbois, but there is a level of truth at least in that last line "Riot become less about the players when they started getting all these new faces."

More and more of the new people just like the nice paycheck and the idea of working at Riot, more than they like working for the players and the game.

The passionate people have seemed to become less passionate (or if they are they are downright quiet about it), and 1 out of every 20 new people seems pretty good, but that is 19 others that seem to just be there because "working on a video game is cool".

Krys StarAug 1, 20158 votes

There's an ounce of truth to my post. The truthful, devoted Rioters are either gone or in another department away from the community's reach now. Guinsoo, rickless, Randuin, Shurelia, Nikasaur, Vesh, Morello ( who is a rare face now more than gone ), Phreak.

The only good or decent Rioters I see now are Meddler and KateyKhaos, who are both amazing representatives of Riot. Baconhawk is so passive-aggressive and undermines the players from time to time, but he's decent otherwise.

ULTRAF0RCEAug 1, 20151 votes

well if I remember correctly Morello is currently working, similarly to Bioluminesince( a rioter who talks about stuff on story and art) on things that are not actually League but outside of that, perhaps new ip or just games that use the characters that are not MOBAs but not league itself.

Genova FearbaneAug 1, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Krys Teare Star,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:54:29.556+0000)

Riot's too arrogant to do such a thing. It's not like they have to give us a refund in money spent. A refund in RP is good enough. But Riot probably too lazy to refund the many unsatisfied players. It's their indirect way of "shove it and get over it." =\ Riot became less about the players two years ago, when they started getting all these new faces.

The Rito hate is real. Anyone who supports them is downvoted, and anyone who bashes them, no matter how unreasonably, is upvoted. Shame.

Krys StarAug 1, 20151 votes

Your post makes absolutely no sense.

ModWulf HelhammerAug 1, 20155 votes

It's sad that you got downvoted for just stating what your company policy is. Some people smh...

XonraAug 1, 201511 votes

{quoted}

It's sad that you got downvoted for just stating what your company policy is. Some people smh...

It's sad that they can charge for something, then completely change it, and shrug when it isn't the same thing someone paid for.

That's how you lose even more trust (don't know if you have noticed, but Riot is in surprisingly short supply of that the past few years). Annoying people like this is a good way to get that person to be less likely to buy a skin the next time they have the money for RP.

Riot doesn't seem to think that far ahead.

ModWulf HelhammerAug 1, 20155 votes

Here's the thing, and the most important thing with that:

Riot, and not you, own the content, and as such, can do with it as they please.

The same with any other software you buy from any company, you're not actually paying for the thing; you're paying for the rights to use the thing (yeah, those text boxes you click "agree" on after every patch? That's what I'm talking about). They are doing what they feel is best for the game, which by the way, is their sole source of income. They are thinking far ahead, and it's instead you that aren't.

To take a current example, in a few years, Riot might feel the need to update the HUD again, and just as drastically as thy did this time. How do you think the player base is going to react? Exactly the same as they are now, with people complaining about how it's so much different, and how they can never get used to it, yada, yada, yada.

You and me, if we are still playing when that time comes, will have the privilege to sit back and watch, laughing as we see how stupid the people complaining about the HUD now were.

There are always people that will get attached to something, but that is by no means a justification to leave something that the creator believes is poorly designed in the game. If, as Riot says, they eventually, after many years, go back and rework already reworked and updated champions, and they do so to Fiora, then there will be the exact same backlash as there is today.

XonraAug 1, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing, and the most important thing with that:

Riot, and not you, own the content, and as such, can do with it as they please.

The same with any other software you buy from any company, you're not actually paying for the thing; you're paying for the rights to use the thing (yeah, those text boxes you click "agree" on after every patch? That's what I'm talking about). They are doing what they feel is best for the game, which by the way, is their sole source of income. They are thinking far ahead, and it's instead you that aren't.

To take a current example, in a few years, Riot might feel the need to update the HUD again, and just as drastically as thy did this time. How do you think the player base is going to react? Exactly the same as they are now, with people complaining about how it's so much different, and how they can never get used to it, yada, yada, yada.

You and me, if we are still playing when that time comes, will have the privilege to sit back and watch, laughing as we see how stupid the people complaining about the HUD now were.

There are always people that will get attached to something, but that is by no means a justification to leave something that the creator believes is poorly designed in the game. If, as Riot says, they eventually, after many years, go back and rework already reworked and updated champions, and they do so to Fiora, then there will be the exact same backlash as there is today.

Here's the thing, and the actual most important thing with that:

You pull stuff like this, and you continue to do so, you annoy your PAYING customers.

When you sell a product to someone, who trusts you as a company enough to spend money on a product that isn't even physical, and they KNOW they don't "own", then turn around and change it with no feedback (when nothing was wrong with it to begin with) and turn your nose when it annoys them, they aren't going to just keep paying you for products in the future.

It has nothing to do with attachment, it has nothing to do with ownership, it has nothing to do with "hating change", it has to do with treating people paying for your product with respect and earning and keeping trust. If you continuously change, and swap, and remove features a person pays for, they eventually start to lose trust.

It might be one person liking the previous Fiora skin because they bought it for whatever reason, and it changes, and now they don't like it. They might be looking at a new skin and going "hm, I can buy rp, but if I buy this now, will they just change it later?" and put their card away, or go spend that money elsewhere. that is one instance and one example, but there are examples of it all over the place you could make, different people, different skins/champions, etc etc.

Sure you can't please everyone, but what's the point of pissing someone off because of this fact? Sure 1 person might not seem like a lot, but one loud voice can catch the attention of 10 people, then 10 loud voices can catch the attention of 10 each, and so on. One person with an instance like this can get the attention of others and then they say "yeah, that is shitty. What if they did that to what I like?".

You might be fine to argue and defend Riot's shifty actions, but there are an equal amount that are more than happy to keep their hard earned money, and eventually the lost trust will build up until they never pull their wallet out again (like with me not buying rp in over a year and a half).

Also the OP wasn't having an issue with Fiora's rework, that wasn't and isn't an issue. The issue was the skin, which realistically made no sense to update or change, because her skins (especially in game model wise) were pretty good, especially compared to a large portion of the terrible ones they still haven't fixed like pizza feet Taric/Morde who they could have spent time fixing, instead of annoying people messing with Fiora, who was perfectly fine.

PaladinNOAug 1, 20151 votes

"Riot, and not you, own the content, and as such, can do with it as they please."

While they can, as is technically their right given the EULA, it is not necessarily a good thing doing it. If Riot pisses off - or rather, pisses on - enough people, who then will provide monetary support to them, which I can only assume is what's paying their bills?

Any company wishing to be in the business should know they can only line their own pockets at the expense of their customerbase for so long before it's all over (is exploit too strong a word?). And from what's I've seen, it's gone pretty much downhill over the last couple of years.

I could even have sucked up the increased RP prices if I had been given something, even just a small token, in return, such as another refund every year (still got 2 left, but that's not the point).

KeevalroyAug 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's sad that you got downvoted for just stating what your company policy is. Some people smh...

If I'm buying a car, I'm looking for a silver one. When I order that shiny silver painted car, and end up with baby-shit green, suddenly, I'm confused and angry. I didn't want baby-shit green, I wanted silver - that's what I payed for.

Dies to WolvesAug 1, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:40:59.763+0000)

Hiya SpaceMonkey3000,

Unfortunately, we are no longer offering refunds for post-reworked/updated content. For more information regarding the decision, check out this Red Post.

gj. I am now oficially not ever buying RP again.

not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things (even though I've spent more money in this game than i'd like to know / admit), but i'd just like to let you know that.

good day :^)

ShínyAug 1, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:40:59.763+0000)

Hiya SpaceMonkey3000,

Unfortunately, we are no longer offering refunds for post-reworked/updated content. For more information regarding the decision, check out this Red Post.

{quoted}It would be awesome to have a process that specifically targets those players significantly impacted by an update and doesn't interfere with Player Support's ability to quickly solve vital support issues, but we are far off from a good solution to this.

Has there been any movement on this? its been a year perhaps some sort of new process has been created?

IcyPepperAug 1, 20156 votes

I really think you guys in HQ need to think about Fiora a bit...

General consensus (at least on the boards, I mean if we're the only ones against it and everyone's all for it, ignoring us isn't as much of an issue) seems to be that her new look is a downgrade. Hell, some of us here have showed people who don't play the game or know the characters the old and new models/splash, and most of the time they get it reversed. That... should say something, dude.

I hate to say it, but sometimes you need to do something instead of going by the books. I'm no professional, I can't tell you guys how to do your jobs, but I can tell you as a customer that I will not be satisfied having paid for a satisfying product, only for it to be "updated" to look like crap. It's like I ordered a gourmet meal, had it placed in front of me, only for the waiter to come midway through my meal and switch it out for a hamburger, then told that I have to pay the gourmet price even though the end result isn't what I paid for.

You guys have options, but going strictly by policy might not be the best approach. People have suggested having a traditional skin, which I've heard Riot doesn't want to do for any champion update, but Fiora's appearance has completely changed. Hell, comparing the new to old classic splash, one of them could easily be a skin. They're that different.

Look, some of us aren't satisfied. You can ignore us, or you can listen and do something to help us out here. You have our money and RP in the end, so it sucks to be us, but you could earn trust and admiration from the playerbase if you came up with an ingenious idea that game developers would be talking about for years on end when discussing player relations.

Don't jump the shark.

Grow the beard.

GodkillahAug 1, 20157 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:40:59.763+0000)

Hiya SpaceMonkey3000,

Unfortunately, we are no longer offering refunds for post-reworked/updated content. For more information regarding the decision, check out this Red Post.

Hiya Riot KateyKhaos,

Unfortunately, I am no longer buying RP from your shady corporation due to the fact that you sell me one thing and then you change it into something else that I do not want later on. For more information regarding this decision please consult your bosses on their dickery.

ULTRAF0RCEAug 1, 20151 votes

here is the relevant Terms and Service passage from section IV OWNERSHIP which unless a person is somehow playing the game without signing them they have to accept anything stated there

B. Game Assets, Riot Points and Virtual Items. When using the Game, you may accumulate in-Game assets associated with your Account, including, without limitation, objects, artifacts, currency, items, equipment, and/or other value or status indicators (“Game Assets”) that reside on servers operated by Riot Games as data. You acknowledge and agree that such Game Assets are accumulated as part of your Account and therefore you shall have no ownership or other property interest in any of those Game Assets. You further acknowledge and agree that Riot Games has the right, but not the obligation, to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Assets, in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you. Riot Games does not provide or guarantee, and expressly disclaims any value, cash or otherwise, attributed to any data residing on servers operated by Riot Games, including without limitation the Game Assets associated with your Account.

THIS

You further acknowledge and agree that Riot Games has the right, but not the obligation, to delete, alter, move, remove, or transfer any and all Game Assets, in whole or in part, at any time and for any reason, with or without notice to you, and with no liability of any kind to you.

Means that riot has no responsibility to tell you of the changes or responsibility to compensate you for the changes.

Ulquiorra995Aug 1, 20158 votes

It is still a really douchey move. Consider a few things:

1 - Skins are purely cosmetical. Meaning you buy skins for looks and looks only. Meaning once those looks get changed drastically you literally lose the thing that you paid for. 2 - Players don't have to pay to play this game in full. Which means that people who are paying for already overpriced skins are doing so in support of Riot. And by making such big changes and not offering refunds, Riot gives a big slap in the face to those same people who support them.

And not only is it douchey - but also from business point of view this is a terrible decision. Say, a person bought a 975 RP skin, and it gets changed. The person asks for a refund. From here there are 2 possibilities.

1 - Riot gives a refund. They don't lose money since refund is not in real world currency, but in in-game one. Person spends it on another skin they like, and maybe they buy RP in the future. 2 - Riot does not give the refund. Person is rightfully pissed off, and thinks for themselves: "If a piece of content I bought can get changed in the way I don't like it anytime, why should I even buy content?". And thus Riot loses a paying customer.

I know I've stopped supporting Riot in monetary way long time ago because of this. And I'd recommend to anyone else to do so.

ULTRAF0RCEAug 2, 20151 votes

I am not to judge whether or not something is "douchey" I was just stating the proof that shows that they are completly within their legal right to even remove royal guard fiora and give no compensation, whether or not people like that or not they have agreed to the fact that nothing involving the game belongs to them and that they get no compensation whatsoever. In fact it would be possible for Riot to simply remove all champions but yasuo and there is no way to say that they are overstepping their legal boundries because everyone signed a document saying that they accept that.

RetillinAug 1, 20159 votes

And this is 100% the reason I stopped buying RP.

DariusDemiurgeAug 1, 20153 votes

{quoted}

And this is 100% the reason I stopped buying RP.

Same that and you know, how long it takes things to get fixed in this game, how they pick and choose at random. Along with their swell balancing team and testing team allowing just poorly designed items into the game.

Ulquiorra995Aug 1, 20155 votes

This. If I know that a skin I like can be changed anytime into something completely different - sorry, Riot. You are not getting my money.

And the changes are drastic more often than not. This new RG Fiora is completely different: new face, hair, clothes, hat and sword.

RenailleAug 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:40:59.763+0000)

Hiya SpaceMonkey3000,

Unfortunately, we are no longer offering refunds for post-reworked/updated content. For more information regarding the decision, check out this Red Post.

Could I have the skin removed from my account with no refund?

King SpitfireAug 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=EK9EFG9B,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-08-01T04:40:59.763+0000)

Hiya SpaceMonkey3000,

Unfortunately, we are no longer offering refunds for post-reworked/updated content. For more information regarding the decision, check out this Red Post.

No refunds for completely changing a champion that was fine into some ugly monstrosity and not even giving a traditional skin? K. Good luck trying to get people to buy skins when they can't even be sure that what they're paying for is what they're going to get.

Rinky DinkyAug 3, 20151 votes

Even though the new skin is trash....

XonraAug 1, 201510 votes

Riot creates a skin
Riot changes skins for a gameplay update when visually she didn't need a rework
Players are annoyed because they don't like the new update for something they paid for
Riot shrugs
Fanbois somehow defend Riot for this shady action

Wha?

Deep Terror NamiAug 1, 20159 votes

They don't do refunds for reworks anymore. All champions and skins are subject to change (older are more likely of course), so be aware of that before you make a purchase.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4572524 Hey all,

Over the past two years we've been ramping up our ability to steadily modernize champions' art, background and gameplay, to the point where champion updates have become an integral part of the overall evolution of League of Legends. When we first began making these updates we were mindful of the fact that we were altering content to which players might be very attached, and with that in mind we agreed to the handful of refund requests from the passionate players who owned updated champions and who sent a ticket to Player Support.

Back then we could do these individual gestures of goodwill because the number of refund requests was pretty low. Requests came largely from players who mained the champ. Once the policy was made public, there was a 10,000%+ spike in requests. We looked at the data and found that a very large majority of requests were from players who werent actively invested in the champion pre-update, but were trying to get back RP or IP without using a refund token.

To give you an idea of the impact, every recent champion update has resulted in a storm of support tickets larger than what we typically see from a full day of major server instability. Combine this with the fact that we're on pace to double our annual number of champion updates (6 in 2013, already 7 in first half of 2014) and it begins to significantly impact Player Support's ability to handle critical issues like account recoveries and tech support.

As a result of these factors, we've decided that beginning with the Karthus champion update, we will stop processing refund requests for updated champions. It would be awesome to have a process that specifically targets those players significantly impacted by an update and doesn't interfere with Player Support's ability to quickly solve vital support issues, but we are far off from a good solution to this.

We know this may be disappointing for some players, particularly those actively playing and invested in updated champions. To help address this issue, the champion update team is working on increased transparency (http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-skins/txxQETbY-champion-updateupdate ) when it comes to which champions they're working on. Additionally, the Player Support team has created a central hub (https://support.leagueoflegends.com/entries/40116190-Champion-Rework-Schedule ) with info on past, present, and future champion updates. These efforts should both help you plan your purchases and use of refund tokens and give you better places to voice your feedback and help us fine-tune updates.

If you have any questions about this change, please leave them below and we'll do our best to address them.

Basically, only a small fraction of players that request a refund for updates/reworks actually use that champion or skin. The rest are people that already regretted their choice and are using the change as an opportunity to avoid the consequences of buyer's remorse.

The WhamboozlerAug 1, 20156 votes

I asked this already and I was told the same. If I buy something, I expect to get what I paid for. If I purchase something from an artist because I like it... and a year later the artist dislikes his old style... he doesn't get to come into my house, rip up my art and draw me a new one in the new style that he now prefers to use. That isn't what I paid for! What's more... I don't LIKE the new style. I would never have paid for it! I don't want it.

You took my money for something, then swapped it out for a turd and said "Oh, lol... our policy is not to give refunds". The compassion shown for their playerbase is staggering here. And the worst part is, riot is big enough now to just... not care. They don't need to. As little as it would take to refund a handful of people for a skin... they won't. Because they don't need to. The anger over this won't affect their income in the least. And that's what it's about... income. They're either concerned that enough people would ask for refunds that it would actually be a problem for them... a blip on the radar of their profits. In which case... maybe realize what this means about the quality of the product you're forcing down our throats and fix it!

Alternately, they just don't want their players to think that they can call them on their products. EVER. This is... slightly more understandable, since people will gripe and demand refunds over every stupid thing... but so what? If enough people dislike the skin that you're changing... either don't change it or give them back their money! Don't flip the bird to the players who bought the skin in the first place. Show your fans you give a crap about them.

XonraAug 1, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I don't LIKE the new style. I would never have paid for it! I don't want it.

This sums up a lot right here. There are plenty of instance where if the current style was the style at the time of purchase, people never would have spent the money on it.

Changing something that is already fine, makes no sense, and refusing to refund someone even in rp for a change they didn't want for a purchase, is ridiculous.

If I was to buy DJ Sona today, and tomorrow they decided to change all of her songs to country music and change her head to Yi (random example), I would be pissed. I like the current skin, and that is what I paid for and why I paid for it. You can't charge for something then change it and go "meh, too bad I already have your money". That is yet again a quick way to make that person roll their eyes the next time there is something to buy, because they likely will remember the lost trust from the last incident, and don't want to be burned a second time.

XonraAug 1, 20155 votes

Just hope you don't like a skin for a champ that is getting a rework. There is a 50% chance you will have wasted your rp after the fact (had it happen to me 2-3 times, and being honest when I say I haven't bought a single skin in well over a year).

Like a few of GPs skins I used to like, but kind of meh on now (like toy GP).

iltAug 1, 20152 votes

This isn't the skin I bought. Change it back, or give me back my RP. I sue you (no I won't)

TamurAug 1, 20151 votes

Maybe you start a post about possibly getting reverted or suggest some changes to help fix the problem (whatever that problem is) while keeping with her update.

Crash BandicootAug 1, 20151 votes

Loki is in the process of being visually updated right now on Smite. Hi-Rez is automatically refunding all Gems (RP) and Favor (IP) to every player who's bought a Loki skin in the past. After the VU, if players like how the newly designed skins look, they can just purchase them again with what they were refunded, and if they don't, they can use it on other skins for other champs. Funny how Hi-Rez can afford to do this but Riot apparently can't. Hmm. .

Zenthon PrimeAug 1, 20151 votes

You mean how Hi-Rez is practically forced to do this. Smite's entire business model is built around trying to be cheaper than LoL and HotS. To stay competitive, they have to offer way more deals than LoL does.

TamurAug 1, 20151 votes

As these post keep stacking up I wonder if this will effect champions who do need VU and/or reworks?

iltAug 2, 20151 votes

bump

TamurAug 3, 20151 votes

After a look at both of these at full magnification the only 3 problems I have with the VU is

her hair( with her hair over her eye gives it that serious look I think this skin needs.)
her pants(I think the darker blue really sets off the skin)
her boots ( I don't see how they are very combat effective and I don't like a girls in hooker boots)