Boards›Concepts & Creations

Rework concept: Pantheon, the Aspect of War

nelogis··12 votes·5,643 views

https://demonstre.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Deuses-gregos-Ares.jpg ######I couldn't find the artist for the original art, sowwy

I know what you are thinking "not one of these again", yes I know I know, I have seen around 20 Pantheon rework ideas too. Some very good and some.... interesting let's say.

But give me a chance here alright if it is horrible just say it straight to my face I'm rather thick skinned.

So reworking Pantheon. First what are his actual problems? Why does he need a rework?

  • Very outdated kit, passive is hard to play around with as an auto attack based enemy in laning phase the point and click poke (which wouldn't be that bad on it's own) but also the point and click stun. With these he is a powerful early dominating laner, it is hard to engage on him but at the same time hard to cs while trying to avoid him which leaves him in a state of low counterplay and with that, a very frustrating experience to play against.

  • His playstyle is kind of wonky. What I mean by that is that he builds nigh assassin and tries to kill a guy before he dies himself in a teamfight. Which isn't bad at all, that is basically Rengar but is that really Pantheon? Is Pantheon an assassin on a suicide mission? Or a bulky frontline skirmisher ready to show everyone what war truly is.

What should be the goal with the rework?

  • Make his laning phase more interactive but still keep him an early dominating laner, so the people liking the dominating playstyle of Pantheon still have that experience.

  • Enable him in teamfights. Give him more survivability and functionality (gap closers) for teamfights, so he can actually be the Aspect of War and not the Aspect of pick a target outside of a big fight.

  • Keeping his roaming pressure. If anything then his ult needs to stay more or less the same, you play Pantheon to not only pressure your own but also other lanes too. At the end of the day this is one of the most unique abilities in the game and trashing it would be sad.

  • Raising his skill cap and outplayability. I know that a lot of Pantheon players enjoy being able to watch for across the map plays more than to fiddle around with mechanics but to make him an Aspect of War he needs to have multiple combos, his playstyle must be adaptable to the enemy and he needs to be unpredictable of what he is going to do next.

  • Keeping his identity the same. What I mean is, he should still be a spear/shield fighter and those weapons should reflect in his abilities.

  • Keeping the AP build alive. W already slaughtered off so many off meta build that it would be a shame to not keep his alive.

These are the points I want to address/keep with the rework so Pantheon still feels like Pantheon. Without further ado, here are the abilities:

#Abilities

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/e/e6/Dragon_Blood_icon.png?version=e662640351b3d799f12a5159ea68dc7a Passive: Battle Frenzy

For every second in combat Pantheon gains a stack of Battle Frenzy Battle Frenzy: For every stack Pantheon gains 1.25% additional CDR and his animation times will be shortened by 8% (up to 8 stacks)

Note: The additional CDR works additive with normal CDR and exceeds the CDR cap

Q (7 ranks): https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/a/a6/Shadow_Strike_icon.png?version=f2f4caf318e075a1ba7144794a9fb460 Offensive stance: Spearfighter Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8/7/6 seconds (starts at the end of the ability) Cost: 20/25/30/35/40/45/50 mana Casts: 3 Animation time: 0.7 seconds per cast (from cast to damage application) Cooldown to recast: 4 seconds

First cast: Pantheon takes a side step and attacks with his spear sideways dealing 20/40/60/80/100/120/140 (+50% AD) Second cast: Pantheon leaps forth and performs a frontal attack with his spear dealing 20/40/60/80/100/120/140 (+50% AD) Third cast: Pantheon takes a step back and slows the enemy by 40% for 2 seconds with a frontal attack dealing 35/55/75/95/115/135/155 (+100% AD)

Note: Pantheons defensive and offensive stance cooldowns behave like seperate spells, aka they have different CD's and they cool down on their own. He can however, cast Q twice then switch to defensive, cast a defensive spell, switch back and cast his last Q. With that he has a wide range of combos he can use to adapt to the battlefield

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/1/10/Shield_Crash_icon.png?version=0818388fa05808655604288a81cf4422 Defensive stance: Shieldwall Cooldown: 15/14/13/12/11/10/9 seconds Cost: 35/40/45/50/55/60/65 mana Casts: 1 Animation time: 0.1 seconds to raise the shield

Pantheon raises his shield for 2 seconds and blocks off the next enemy basic attack or tower shot. If Pantheon blocks an attack in the first 0.5 seconds of raising his shield then the attack will be reflected to the attacker dealing 10/20/30/40/50/60/70 (+Absorbed damage) physical damage

Note: Pantheon cannot attack while his shield is raised and the shield will automatically go down after blocking 3 attacks, Pantheon may recast this ability to lower his shield sooner

W (7 ranks): https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/d/da/Strafe_icon.png?version=8ccb5bcdd1f8157b17e30a70b84f0262 Offensive stance: Spear throw Cooldown: 15/14/13/12/11/10/9 seconds (starts at the first cast) Cost: 25/30/35/40/45/50/55 mana Casts: 2 Animation time: 1 second (from cast to throwing the spear) Cooldown to recast: 4 seconds Range: 700 Recast Range: 800

First cast: Pantheon prepares his spear and throws it infront of him. The first enemy hit will be slowed by 40% for 2 seconds and dealt 30/50/70/90/110/130/150 (+60% AD) physical damage Second cast: Pantheon jumps to the enemy hit with the spear and rips the spear out dealing 40/60/80/100/120/140/160 (+60% AD) physical damage over 4 seconds as bleed damage.

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/archive/2/2d/20121205235617%21Global_Silence_icon.png?version=cd9c5f75e09a970978cf13583058a467 Defensive stance: Shield bash Cooldown: 22/20/18/16/14/12/10 seconds Cost: 25/30/35/40/45/50/55 mana Casts: 1 Animation time: 1 second (from cast to charge start) Range: 600

Pantheon dashes forwards with his shield and stuns the first enemy hit for 1 second dealing 10/30/50/70/90/110/130 (+140% AP) magic damage

Note: You can dash flash this ability like a Vi Q and this ability goes through minions and monsters but damages them while doing so. This dash cannot go through walls

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/b/ba/Duel_icon.png?version=bccac67f927f97b12cdae963daa20040 E: Adaptive fighter (1 rank) Cooldown: 0.1 seconds Cost: None Casts: 1 Animation time: None

Aktive: Pantheon changes his stance

Passive: When in offensive stance, gain 15 bonus movementspeed When in defensive stance, gain 30 bonus armor and magic resistance

https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/dota2_gamepedia/9/96/Primal_Spring_icon.png?version=fbd846de96e12364f6df1052417816a6 R: Aspect of War (3 ranks) Cooldown: 150/120/90 seconds Cost: 100 mana at all ranks Casts: 1 Animation time: 3.5 seconds (2 seconds to jump up, 1.5 seconds to land) Range: 6000

Pantheon channels his strength and jumps into the air to then land on a target location dealing 400/700/1000 (+120% AP) magic damage and slowing enemies by 30% for 2 seconds. For each enemy hit Pantheon gains a stack of Battle Frenzy

#Playstyle

General Playstyle: Long fights will make Pantheon thanks to his passive a VERY fast fighter and the window to punish him becomes shorter and shorter. Pantheons weaknesses are getting kited and short trades. Pantheon can punish predictability exceptionally good and he has the ability to close in on ranged targets who try to bully him in laning phase.

Laning phase: In laning phase, Phanteon is an agile fighter that can punish enemy mistakes like no other. His ability to adapt to the enemy and play accordingly makes him huge treat to fight in early stages of the game. His long animation times leave space to dodge or react to key abilities. This makes it so not only Pantheon but also the enemy can outplay eachother and gives fighting a healthy eb and flow where the better of the 2 fighters come out on top.

Teamfighting: In teamfights Pantheon likes to fight the enemy backline. He can do so via diving with his ultimate and gaining Battle Frenzy stacks right of the bat to be able to outmaneuver and stay alive while his team takes care of the frontline. He can also join a fight without his ult and gain a lot of stack to then use a fast channeling ultimate to surprise the enemies.

#Edits

Edit1:

  • Reduced stun duration from offensive W from 1 to 0.75 seconds
  • Reduced stun duration from defensive W from 1.5 to 1 second
  • Reduced damage from offensive W second cast
  • Reduced damage from defensive W by 30 at all ranks and changed AP ratio from 120% to 140%

Edit2:

  • Reduced passive CDR gain per stack from 2.5% to 1.25%
  • Removed stun from offensive W and added bleed damage instead

#The End

I thank you very much for reading my champion concept and I am always open for suggestions so feel free to comment what's on your mind (no not that part of your mind)

Also all ability icons are taken from Dota 2 (I couldn't find the artist of the splash art in the beginning)

You liked this concept? Check out other champions and rework concepts I made! (Yes I like to russel my timmy jhonsons but who doesn't like to do that, come on)

Champion concepts:

Champion concept (Battlemage): Mug'gri, the hopes End Champion concept (Juggernaut): Beauty de Morknaut Champion concept (Joke): RNGesus, the Lord of Dice Champion concept (Juggernaut-Supporter): Oracas, The Heart of War

Rework concepts:

Rework concept: Mordekaiser, the Iron Revenant

32 Comments

BLACK REALM GOD2 votes

i think he needs more FAAAAABULOUS in his stance. his hips arent skewed enough. and why stop at a 6 pack? make it a 12 pack. you're halfway to an 8 pack already might as well defy the laws of anatomy more.

nelogis1 votes

I mean thats his armor not really his body Kappa

I didn't want to use Pantheons normal splash and I couldn't find anything that fits him better out there.... also I'm garbage at drawing so... yeeeeaahh.

I'm suprised that annoys when there is stuff like Tryndamere literally bursting from muscles.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

I think it’s about pose more than anything. Tryndamere’s pose in art is finishing an attack and looking angry. It radiates power and strength.

Your picture is in a position that would frankly be terrible if ever put in a fight. But would look right in place during a particularly provocative dance number. With lots of shimmies and gyrating hips.

In any case the actual rework.

I like it. I like my old one better, but then I’m biased aren’t I?

I do think the whole animation speed thing would get wonky especially when it interacts with the multi-part Q or for the defender trying to make sense of the skillshots.

It might be a bit cleaner to just have the passive lower cooldown or abilities and the down-time between each part of the Q.

The Mantheon2 votes

Hey this is a pretty neat concept, i loved the new Aatrox's Q because of how it conveys the "wargod" type of style, so a similar skill for Pantheon is pretty cool (it would be cool if you could sneak Heartseeker Strike, his current E, on his new Q, since it is his second most iconic skill IMO)

overall, the concept is pretty good, but i do have some concerns about it, mainly, theres way too much damage on his kit, even defensive skills have damage, he also has 2 stuns and since his E does not have a cooldown, landing 1 stun means the second one is guaranteed and since both deal damage that can lead to some frustrating instances

still, i think most of it can be solved by moving some numbers arround, scalings, CDs etc other than that, good job!

nelogis1 votes

Hmm do you mean the active or the passive crit mechanic from his current E?

When it comes to the active my first Idea was to make it an ability that can stack up to 6 stacks and everytime Panth casts it he woul poke his spear into that direction, so if he had 6 stacks he could perform a barrage of spear hits.

I scrapped that idea soon tho since I thought it would be wonky to use.

When it comes to the passive I just didn't add it so he isn't overloaded.

But yeah I have never been that great with damage in my concepts I will lower damage and stun duration so he doesn't have a 2.5 scond chain stun but rather a 1.75 second one.

The Mantheon1 votes

yeah the active part of the E, yes having the passive would indeed be overloaded, and since he would have a lot of damage sources now he doesnt need really it

i dunno, i really like Panth's current E, the concept that you came up with sounds interesting, but yeah i can see how it would be wierd

i would personally change the last cast of the Q for Heartseeker Strike, obviously without the slow and numbers adjusted, since Hearthseeker Strike roots you having it at the end of the combo should feel better

i hope i dont come off rude by messing with your concept man so apologies in advance, i really like it

nelogis1 votes

i would personally change the last cast of the Q for Heartseeker Strike, obviously without the slow and numbers adjusted, since Hearthseeker Strike roots you having it at the end of the combo should feel better

I know what you mean, the spear barrage is the only thing missing in his kit. Your idea is cool but that would give him 4 self cc's in his kit.

The shieldwall disarms him (he cant attack) The spear throw roots him (he cant walk while casting it) The shield bash roots him (he cant walk while casting it) The 3rd Q would root him then too (he cant walk while casting it)

This would make him like release Urgot where half the kit feels so clunky to use since it cc's himself. Urgot got almost half of his self cc's removed from his kit and when you do that to Panth 3rd Q it would look so weird that he walks and casts a spear barrage while doing so.

Though I agree with you that the current E is missing in this rework. I just couldn't find a spot to put it in that feels fluent to use with the rest of his kit.

i hope i dont come off rude by messing with your concept man so apologies in advance, i really like it

Oh not at all! I wouldn't be posting it here if i wasn't expecting some critisism ^^ I thank you for your feedback!

J4K ShadyBacon2 votes

Okay, so this rework has a lot of really interesting ideas, but there are a couple of things that I think would need to change in order for it to work better within the structure of the game.

  1. The passive while very unique could potentially be a bit overpowered, but this is not anything that could not be balanced simply by some numerically changes, maybe dropping it down to 1.25% instead of 2.5%. I think the biggest reason the passive in its current form could be overpowered is that it allows the user the ability to exceed the 40% CDR cap up to a total of 60% CDR. If you eliminated the ability of the passive to exceed the CDR cap then you could probably leave it at 2.5%
  2. I like the idea of giving Pantheon an offensive and defensive playstyle, however, giving his Q and W seven ranks instead of five leaves him with a very underwhelming E that has to start initially leveled up for him to even use his abilities. To fix this I would recommend making it so that the passive bonuses from the stances are something that increases with the rank of the ability.
  3. While I understand your desire to keep his ultimate the same since it is a fairly unique ability that gives Pantheon a bunch of roaming or gank potential, I feel that for your rework to truly flourish the ability to switch stances should be moved to his ultimate making him similar to Nidalee and Elise, with one initial rank in the ultimate for a max of four where each additional rank increases the passive bonuses to each of his forms or stances.
  4. For the reworked Q, I would leave the offensive stance unchanged as I like the idea and the skill gap it could allow. The defensive portion of it, however, I would remove the ability for it to reflect the damage and instead move that part of it to one of his other abilities where he attacks with his shield, maybe give his E a shield slam that sends out a shockwave dealing damage equal to that which he absorbed from his Q or have it increase the damage of the next offensive stance attack of his Q.
  5. As for his new W, I really do not think the offensive stance needs a stun since the defensive stance for it has one. By giving both stances of the ability stuns it lowers the skill gap of the champion and makes the relationship between the two stances less fluid and dependent on one another. The stances should not feel like to completely different playstyles but as an extension of one another, which is something I feel you do well with the abilities of his Q. As a result of this change I would also recommend reducing the range of the shield bash to one that is almost a melee range.

Well, that is everything I wanted to say about your rework, let me know if you agree with any of my changes or ideas and why so we can have a conversation, cause overall I really enjoyed the concept and would like to hear your thoughts. Also, if you ever wanted to really change up Pantheon you could probably just kill him off and have the Aspect of War find another host, which would honestly be a crazy awesome story and idea.

nelogis2 votes

sorry for the late reply

The passive while very unique could potentially be a bit overpowered, but this is not anything that could not be balanced simply by some numerically changes, maybe dropping it down to 1.25% instead of 2.5%. I think the biggest reason the passive in its current form could be overpowered is that it allows the user the ability to exceed the 40% CDR cap up to a total of 60% CDR. If you eliminated the ability of the passive to exceed the CDR cap then you could probably leave it at 2.5%

Yeah I was never too great with numbers in my concepts ^^ I will tune it down to a max of 50% like you said, I think that is reasonable.

I like the idea of giving Pantheon an offensive and defensive playstyle, however, giving his Q and W seven ranks instead of five leaves him with a very underwhelming E that has to start initially leveled up for him to even use his abilities. To fix this I would recommend making it so that the passive bonuses from the stances are something that increases with the rank of the ability.

hmmmm.... I think it could be a better idea to just give him a free E spell which he doesn't have to level up and add that point to whatever. Tho that would make the leveling process clunky. I don't know, leveling a spell up for the sake of some free stats seems boring.

At the same time he doesn't have to start with E, he can level Q (he starts in the offensive stance, I forgot to mention that) to gain an ability then level E to gain another ability and lastly W to gain 2 abilities. With that he has a bigger ability per level quota than most champs and a unique way of leveling his first abilities.

Against poke lanes it could be useful to level E and gaining the bonus resitances right of the bat.

While I understand your desire to keep his ultimate the same since it is a fairly unique ability that gives Pantheon a bunch of roaming or gank potential, I feel that for your rework to truly flourish the ability to switch stances should be moved to his ultimate making him similar to Nidalee and Elise, with one initial rank in the ultimate for a max of four where each additional rank increases the passive bonuses to each of his forms or stances.

His stance switch was at some point his ult in the developpment but I thought that Pantheon players don't play him because of his poke, or his stun or his AOE damage. They play him because of that ult.

So I decided to keep the ult as it is to let Pantheon players still feel like they play Pantheon. Otherwise we have another fiesta of Aatrox / Galio. If this was a new champ I would definetly put it on the R slot, doesn't make any sene not to.

For the reworked Q, I would leave the offensive stance unchanged as I like the idea and the skill gap it could allow. The defensive portion of it, however, I would remove the ability for it to reflect the damage and instead move that part of it to one of his other abilities where he attacks with his shield, maybe give his E a shield slam that sends out a shockwave dealing damage equal to that which he absorbed from his Q or have it increase the damage of the next offensive stance attack of his Q.

I don't agree with you here Making it so the defensive Q is coupled with defensive W makes it clunky to use IMO. HAVING to use a gab closer to get the bonus damage off doesn't feel right. Also it doesn't make sense why he should deal more damage with his spear when he absorbed something with his shield 2 seconds ago. The idea behind the current design is that he either parries and counterattacks a melee attack or he reflects a bullet from a ranged attack (if he blocks precisely that is)

Why do you think that this particular thing is a problem and needs to be changed?

As for his new W, I really do not think the offensive stance needs a stun since the defensive stance for it has one. By giving both stances of the ability stuns it lowers the skill gap of the champion and makes the relationship between the two stances less fluid and dependent on one another. The stances should not feel like to completely different playstyles but as an extension of one another, which is something I feel you do well with the abilities of his Q. As a result of this change I would also recommend reducing the range of the shield bash to one that is almost a melee range.

Interesting points. Now that you say it I think making the offensive W stun to a bleed with more damage would fit Pantheon better as a lane bully and fighter. Otherwise I think he would build too tanky or almost nigh tank with just a BC in the mix.

For the idea of the shield stun to make it melee.... I don't know... I just made it a gab closer because I thought he needed one, making it melee leaves him with a total of 2 gab closer, one of which doesn't go through minions. I guess we would need actual playstesting to see if he needs it or not, if not then making it melee would fit the ability better yeah.

I thank you for your constructive feeback!

J4K ShadyBacon1 votes

Why do you think that this particular thing is a problem and needs to be changed?

I think that this particular thing is a problem as it makes the ability feel a bit loaded in my opinion and as a result misses out on potential ability combos and synergies/interactions.

Also, I do not feel that Pantheon's ultimate is a huge part of his identity, but then again I do not main him. I loved per rework Galio since it was fun to use it bottom lane with a Kalista, but I still like the rework. I personally just feel that the community is too against change these days and as a result fail to see a lot of the positives that come out of them.

nelogis1 votes

I guess we just have to agree to disagree here ^^

Also it's not so much that we are against change or something (tho the changes to balance lately are truly terrible) it's about just throwing away something. Aatrox rework isn't bad at all, Aatrox right now is a lot of fun to play but it isn't Aatrox. Old Aatrox was an auto attack based champion and people played him BECAUSE of that. Completely trashing that playstyle means people that had fun with Aatrox no longer do since the champion is gone for ever. This doesn't mean reworks shouldn't happen, Warwick for example plays almost the same als old Warwick. The playstyle is almost the same it's just that his kit now fits to modern league.

Old Galio was a solid champion that filled a niche. He wasn't a champion to one trick and he had one of the biggest fight-changing ultimates in the game at that time. He actually did not need a rework but he got it nonetheless and look at him now. That isn't Galio, it's something else (not to mention that new Galio has a lower winrate and playrate than old Galio), so the Galio players that played Galio just feel like shit now.

For you, nothing important has gone but for those that put countless hours into the champion it feels like they just wasted their time.

Thats why I think preserving the playstyle and kit as a whole should be put as the most important priority in a rework. Maybe I'm alone in this since Riot took away 2 of my favorite champions but I still think this would be the right way to do reworks.

Redskinsrock26111 votes

Stop reworking champions if at least 1 person plays them. It's fucking bullshit, or make both versions playable. I literally dropped my favorite champion and essentially quit the game for years because they took a buffalo shit on the best carry champ. And I made it to like silver. Also I know for a FACT that a prerework sion main feels more strongly about this than I do.

nelogis2 votes

I tried to keep the identity of Pantheon the same, the spear throw, the shield bash stun, his ult, the blocking mechanic.

If there is something in particular you are missing then pls tell me and I can see if I can implement it or not.

Redskinsrock26111 votes

{quoted}

I tried to keep the identity of Pantheon the same, the spear throw, the shield bash stun, his ult, the blocking mechanic.

If there is something in particular you are missing then pls tell me and I can see if I can implement it or not.

don't change the w mechanics, don't change the q mechanics, dont change the e mechanics, and don't give him a new ult.

nelogis2 votes

Sooooooo.... change nothing other than passive? (by the way I didn't change his ult)

This is just an idea, this won't be implemented like this. Don't worry Pantheon will be the same next patch, but he is going to get reworked eventually and we as a community can bring some ideas up on how he could be changed.

That is the reason of the post.

Redskinsrock26111 votes

{quoted}

Sooooooo.... change nothing other than passive?

This is just an idea, this won't be implemented like this. Don't worry Pantheon will be the same next patch, but he is going to get reworked eventually and we as a community can bring some ideas up on how he could be changed.

That is the reason of the post.

You don't just change everything about a champion thats been considered more healthy than most. almost literally for fucking ever. Thats a problem with the state of the game, not the champion. This would be like changing Zed's kit because he was too strong of a support.

nelogis2 votes

You don't just change everything about a champion thats been considered more healthy than most

But he isn't considered a healthy champion thats the problem. Maybe it is considered as healthy by you.

Thats a problem with the state of the game, not the champion. This would be like changing Zed's kit because he was too strong of a support.

But Pantheon isn't being effective in off roles, he is frustrating to play against in his main role (I guess Pantheon jungle is fine I don't have a problem with him going jungle)

So maybe making him more of a Jungler is a way? But what about the Pantheon top players? You can't just leave them in the dirt.

Again, Pantheon is still preserved in this rework, his ult is exactly the same, he still has his spear throw he still has his shield stun, he still has his block mechanic. What part of the kit makes you think that he is no longer Pantheon but rather a different champion?

Phieldworker2 votes

{quoted}

But he isn't considered a healthy champion thats the problem. Maybe it is considered as healthy by you.

But Pantheon isn't being effective in off roles, he is frustrating to play against in his main role (I guess Pantheon jungle is fine I don't have a problem with him going jungle)

So maybe making him more of a Jungler is a way? But what about the Pantheon top players? You can't just leave them in the dirt.

Again, Pantheon is still preserved in this rework, his ult is exactly the same, he still has his spear throw he still has his shield stun, he still has his block mechanic. What part of the kit makes you think that he is no longer Pantheon but rather a different champion?

I think redakins is just saying champ reworks shouldn’t be done. He obviously hasn’t played old/new Warwick. I’m on board with this and reworks. There are a few that have been questionable but as long as the essence of the champion I think it’s good. Warwick has his ult, his hunting ability, his q health gain, as buff.

This pantheon has the same essence just feels like he would be more fun to play and fits his lore as this amazing warrior from above. Like one of his stories he strategically dismantles a group moving from foe to foe. I feel your rework idea can portray this ~~~~

noxus is op2 votes

{quoted}

You don't just change everything about a champion thats been considered more healthy than most. almost literally for fucking ever. Thats a problem with the state of the game, not the champion. This would be like changing Zed's kit because he was too strong of a support.

boi pantheon is one of the big toxic champs that noone ever wants to see viable.

next to the likes of.Caitlyn Yasuo MonkeyKing Teemo {{champion:Tryndamere Tryndamere MasterYi Jayce hell even though i main him i hate facing against Darius as much as the next person as well these champs are suffocating when ahead or on a certain point in the game or just obnoxious. no one wants them around most definitely pantheon is added on that list dude is fukn horrible to lane against it feels like you have to kill him b4 first back or he comes back and ignores minions while he throws spears.

cuz who needs farms when you have kills. overall he is just a shtbag champ to face he ruins entire laning phases so fuk that champ especially since there is no outplaying his q and he would only ever e to finish you off he doesn't commit to sht and the excuse that his gap closer is his only mobility spell doesn't mean sht when its all he needs to catch you stop you from even being able to play the game.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

{quoted}

You don't just change everything about a champion thats been considered more healthy than most

but we're changing pantheon

Redskinsrock26111 votes

{quoted}

but we're changing pantheon

This should be illegal. You guys are terrible.

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

no u

Seer of Mind2 votes

Every champion needs to be reworked if the playstyle that Riot was shooting for is not there anymore, or if the champion is unhealthy (DO SOMETHING TO YI ALREADY)

UnboundHades1 votes

{quoted}

Stop reworking champions if at least 1 person plays them. It's fucking bullshit, or make both versions playable. I literally dropped my favorite champion and essentially quit the game for years because they took a buffalo shit on the best carry champ. And I made it to like silver. Also I know for a FACT that a prerework sion main feels more strongly about this than I do.

Panth is cancerous because his laning is uninteractive as hell and he's basically guaranteed to either win lane or at least go even then he just stops existing late game because he does nothing besides die after a weak engage

Summonah123691 votes

Pantheon, the moron who can block turret hits.

nelogis1 votes

I thought I would keep that since that has always been a Pantheon exclusive thing. Removing or keeping it isn't that much of work to be honest since that power doesn't add much to his kit (the reworked I mean).

Khâmul1 votes

pantheon is posing for instagram now?

Sukishoo1 votes

shield will outomatically go

I giggled. (automatically ;) )

Not a bad idea for a rework though.

nelogis1 votes

whops, thx for the tip I fixed it ^^

Glad you like the concept!

Lil Homie busta1 votes

Hi mate, I'll give a review of your concept in order to enter september's CCOS, so don't feel obligated to respond if you don't feel like doing it so. I'll try to be brief and direct.

Before entering the kit, I will say that your goals for the rework are just right. It's important to keep the playstyle very similar, close to identical if possible, when changing a champion. People invest a lot of time and dedication to master a champion. It's a kick in the balls to change a champion beyond recognition or remove key and fun aspects of it (like AP ratios shenanigans).

Kit wise, the concept of Stances is pretty much what Riot will do if I had to guess, so that's very good. I just don't agree with the your execution: Having a useless skill at level 1 is problematic. Maybe the E (Adaptive Fighter) could have more ranks and give scaling bonuses, like AD in order to make him stronger at level 1? Although I sympathise in the difficult of solving this issue; it's kinda of a dilemma.

I don't agree that Q and W should have 7 ranks. That's exclude one possible ability from his kit. Kits that resumes or put emphasis into few abilities (Ez, Zoe, Janna) usually aren't great in terms of balancing or fun. Take some power from the other abilities and put on the E. Give it more importance as I mentioned before. If you're having issue with scaling and making him spike too strong at early levels, try to move the scalings into level based instead of rank based.

Something feels odd about the splash art, he's to curvy idk. I hope I have helped your concept. I personally like it, nice job.

nelogis1 votes

Hi mate, I'll give a review of your concept in order to enter september's CCOS, so don't feel obligated to respond if you don't feel like doing it so. I'll try to be brief and direct.

I'm always open for feedback and if it is well constructed I can't just ignore it

By the way. What is an CCOS?

Champion Concepts Organizations Security?

Kit wise, the concept of Stances is pretty much what Riot will do if I had to guess, so that's very good. I just don't agree with the your execution: Having a useless skill at level 1 is problematic. Maybe the E (Adaptive Fighter) could have more ranks and give scaling bonuses, like AD in order to make him stronger at level 1? Although I sympathise in the difficult of solving this issue; it's kinda of a dilemma.

There are a lot of people that think leveling the E first is a must. Pantheon would start the game in the offensive stance, aka leveling Q up level 1 would give you the 3-cast ability.

So it's like any other champion: 1 level = +1 ability (assuming you "learn" the ability)

The only difference being that Pantheon gains 2 abilities with the 3rd ability learned instead of 1. Which further increases his early dominance.

I would rather not give him bonus AD anywhere in his kit. Almost anything he does, deals damage. Giving him bonus AD would break him in the early game and give him the problems Darius has in lower elos IMO.

I don't agree that Q and W should have 7 ranks. That's exclude one possible ability from his kit. Kits that resumes or put emphasis into few abilities (Ez, Zoe, Janna) usually aren't great in terms of balancing or fun. Take some power from the other abilities and put on the E. Give it more importance as I mentioned before. If you're having issue with scaling and making him spike too strong at early levels, try to move the scalings into level based instead of rank based.

The difference between Ez, Zoe, Janna is that Pantheon has 4 abilities he works with and his kit can be adjusted to what he needs. He doesn't have a mechanic which he NEEDS to brute force (Like Zoe or Ezreal)

I made sure that if he choses to max his bread and butter ability (offensive Q) first it leaves him with an ability which is rather underwhelming (defensive Q).

This path makes him a way more aggressive fighter than leveling W first.

Leveling W first would leave him in a state where he can provide way more cc and utility for his team.

He can also chose to not max something and level both abilities at the same time to give him a balanced curve or you can make it so if you are ahead you just max Q and if behind you start leveling W.

His kit doesn't have a mechanic that reads "If I don't do this im literally trolling" like leveling up Zoe E or W instead of Q. You can't do that whereas here you are free to level up what you actually need.

At the end of the day we would propably need actual playtesting to see if it is a problem or not. IMO it shouldn't produce the same problem Zoe, Ez, Janna has but I can't say for certain.

Your Idea of making his E scale off levels is interesting but then there would still be no reason to level it up since the ability would scale with champion-levels and not ability-levels.

Making his E a "good" ability (keep in mind the E gives him 2 other seperate abilities to work with. His E is basically 2 abilities in 1 other ability) would overload him I think.

Something feels odd about the splash art, he's to curvy idk. I hope I have helped your concept. I personally like it, nice job.

Well I can't draw for jack so I just picked something off the internet that looks like Panth but isn't the same splashart as of now.

People tend to click on a concept with a picture on it more than without one, don't ask me why I don't know either.

I thank you for your feedback and hope I was able to clear some stuff up!

More from Concepts & Creations

A completely serious, totally legit question for Riot.
Concepts & Creations183 comments
2,280
votes
[Champion Concept] DhaMa, The Force of Balance
Concepts & Creations931 comments
1,424
votes
Elderwood Kindred
Concepts & Creations176 comments
1,062
votes
Bring Urgot's Nipple Back!
Concepts & Creations94 comments
985
votes
Petition To Have An Old Lady Champion
Concepts & Creations481 comments
947
votes
When Tahm Kench eats Lulu, he should say that it tasted purple!
Concepts & Creations109 comments
826
votes

More by nelogis

How to design your own CertainlyT champion 101, THE POST!
Memes & Games49 comments
137
votes
You're.... you're giving more damage to Flask and reducing it's lane sustain?
Gameplay105 comments
105
votes
Game affecting Warwick bugs that would be really cool if they finally got fixed
Report a Bug30 comments
76
votes
Welcome to "What the hell just did so much damage to me?!"
Gameplay66 comments
60
votes
Top lane just got a tumor again, Riot is doing nothing about it again, because it's Top... again
Gameplay59 comments
53
votes
I present you, the most anti synergy bot lane to ever exist in League History
Memes & Games63 comments
53
votes