Hnorah: The Unholy

LolWutNaniQue··4 votes·1,691 views

Being fast and mobile and making flashy "sick plays" is all the rage nowadays. Here's something to calm these kids down. For those of you who have wonky hands but still want to "git gud" with MUH STRATEGY and MUH TACTICOOL PLAYS, this might be right up your alley. A breath of fresh air. Probably. His painstaking immobility might make you want to punch your monitor, occasionally. But, it'll be alright. All you have to do is just be there at the right place and the right time, all the time.

TL;DR VERSION: Stealthed, slow melee assassin. The first ever close-melee "nuker". Even though he is stealthed, the enemy can still get an idea of where he is. Deal insanely high amount of damage through being sneaky and smart. Nearly all of his abilities require you position yourself right and predict enemy movements. His ultimate encaptures all the thematic elements of an assassin as well as a tactical pick: the looming threat of death and psychological pressure for the opponent. Visual concept is dark and edgy, just how us pretentious hipsters like it.

Base health at level 1 and 18: 530, 1930 Base mana at level 1 and 18: 180, 800 Base HP/MP regen per 5 seconds at level 1: 7, 5 Base attack damage, armor at level 1: 64, 22 Attack range: 225

Passive: Undignified Blasphemy

Hnorah is constantly in stealth (unlike Evelynn, you do not become visible even if you're close). He is visible for 2 seconds after auto-attacking, as well as if he is affected by any form of crowd control. When Hnorah uses an ability, black ash will form beneath him for 3 seconds. The black ash is visible to the enemy, but Hnorah himself will still be invisible unless revealed. Your movement speed and attack speed are fixed. Movement speed increases by level. Attack speed remains at a constant 0.75 throughout the entire game. Bonus movement speed and attack speed gained from items is converted into attack damage (similar to Jinh's calculation algorithm). Base movement speed: 335 (increases by 3.5 per level). Movement speed at level 18: 398

Q (The Ethereal Blade):

Hnorah charges to swing his enormous Ethereal Blade, a holy relic of the Ancients. Press and hold to charge, up to 3 seconds. Upon release, he will swing the sword in an arc (radius 300, 1/4th of circle circumference). Damage increases the longer the hold and the damage bonus caps at 2 seconds (similar to Varus Q). Hnorah's movement speed is reduced by 50% while charging and black ash forms around his blade, which is visible to the enemy. If the ability connects after being charged for 2 seconds, it will push all affected targets to the end of the arc and stun them for 1.5 seconds. He retains stealth while using this ability. Physical damage at levels 1/2/3/4/5, the latter number being 2-second-charge: (70140/100200/130260/160320/200~400 + 1.0 of bonus AD) Rough estimate of cooldown at level 18 w/ no CDR: 8 seconds Mana cost at levels 1/5: 50/90

W (Soothsayer):

Hnorah channels for 2 seconds, then teleports to a location within a 1500-unit radius. Hnorah is fully visible during channeling. Black ash forms in the location he will teleport to while channeling, giving the enemy a chance to react. Black ash also forms after channeling, due to his regular passive, Undignified Blasphemy. Passive Effect: For every second Hnorah is stealthed, he receives a Blashemy stack. Every point of Blasphemy increases his damage by 0.5%. The stack is capped at 100 (50% bonus damage). He loses all stacks upon death. Mana cost at levels 1/5: 60/120

E (Lamentation):

Hnorah sprays a straight line of slow moving black ash. The black ash is identical in colour and form to the one that forms due to his passive. All units hit by the black ash are dealt slight magic damage, slowed by 35% for 3 seconds and blinded for 1.5 seconds. The black ash lasts on the ground for 4 seconds with no other particular effects. Because this black ash is exactly like the one that forms due to the passive, Hnorah can "blend" his own passive ash in by stepping into it. In other words, even his passive ash will be invisible if you just walk within the line of ash. Length/Width: 1000/200 units (long, but thin) Magic damage at levels 1/2/3/4/5: (60, 90, 130, 160, 200) Rough estimate of cooldown at level 18 w/ no CDR: 16 seconds Mana cost at levels 1/5: 50/100

R (The Bell Tolls for Thee):

Once a pious prophet, he sought the Ethereal Blade to end the Void - without the sanctimonious blade's approval. The blade, apparently forged eons ago by the gods, had never been used even once in sacred service. Just one lowly prophet out of many, Hnorah grabbed the fabled blade out of nothing but self-righteousness. Now, a blasphemer, his gift of prophecy is limited to only one despairing call: the call for death.

Shortly after activation, a bell will toll - seven times, once per 0.75 second. All players can hear the bell anywhere on the map. On the seventh toll of the bell, all enemy champions will be snared for 2 seconds. After the seventh toll, Hnorah can reactivate the skill within 3 seconds to land a crushing overhead strike down the earth with his enormous Ethereal Blade for massive true damage (400 units long, 175 units wide, 1 second casting time). Hnorah becomes visible for 5 seconds after the 7th bell.

True Damage at levels 1/2/3: (200/400/600 + 1.0 of total AD) Cooldown at levels 1/2/3 with no CDR: 180/140/100 seconds Mana cost at levels 1/2/3: 200/250/300

43 Comments

Auurun3 votes

Interesting, but i really don't like infinite stacking mechanic :/

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

In this case, it's a necessary feature. If he goes to lane, his laning will be incredibly weak. Because he's purely melee with no mobility and slow attack speed, he can't farm CS as well as any other laner. He needs high AD to assassinate, and the bonus AD just from the meagre items you bought with 70 cs at 15 minutes will not be enough. And one of the fun things about this champion is his ridiculous AD. Imagine that slow-motion basic attack hitting someone for like 500 damage with just a Bloodthirster.

Auurun2 votes

Maybe, but i simply cannot enjoy something like that and example you gave... I don't find anything fun in hitting like a truck with just a basic attack.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Okay. You can't enjoy it, but I can. We'll leave it at that. The point is that he needs much higher AD than normal to function as he's supposed to. If you have any other better ideas, I'm all ears.

Another factor to take into account is to give this champion an incentive to actually go to lane. If this were hypothetically a real champion right now, he'd be in the jungle 100% of the time. The stacking gives the player a choice: do you want to be safe in the jungle with few stacks, or suffer hard in lane but have the potential to have over 400 AD?

Auurun2 votes

Right now i don't have any better idea, but i simply always oppose this idea. I'd rather get rid of this mechanic in any form (veigar, thresh, sion, bard etc.) than having yet another guy like that. I'd prefer having some kind of passive that helps him in early game rather than make another underwhelming champ early and monster in late game.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

I already have other alternatives thought up. If it's just the numbers getting out of control, we can simply put a cap on it or reduce it to 0.5 AD per minion kill. There's lots of alternatives, but I actually need a convincing reason for WHY this mechanic is bad in order for me to change my mind. I understand you dislike it, but you haven't thoroughly explained why the stack mechanic makes for a poorer game experience. Nasus and Veigar are niche champions rarely played, and only few players get high stacks. Getting high stacks is proof of mad skillz and you get props for it. And you don't just get it by playing in a long game - you have to actively farm it, which is why incredibly high stacks rarely happen. The same is true for this champion.

Also, you seem to have a slightly different image of how this champion operates than I do. This champion isn't necessarily weak early. He just can't efficiently trade hits and damage with other laners. He's a bad laner, but he's not weak. He can kill anyone post level 6, even without items. You just need to plan and move efficiently. I put the stack mechanic there so he doesn't become useless late-game, not to make him another Nasus Q farmer. In late game team fights, he'll get blown up instantly if a pink ward plops down and people focus him. There's not many windows of timing for him to land a good Q and R in the late game, especially when everyone has move speed items and is hyper fast. This is why high AD is absolutely necessary at this point: if you've snuck in the back line efficiently, your ultimate needs to pretty much kill enemy carries in a single hit, because you won't have much else to do afterwards.

He can also be used as a split pusher. Mobility and attack speed are HUGE assets to a champion, and he has neither. He's compensated for that with the potential to have infinite AD. He needs to knock down towers, but how do you do that with a fixed 0.75 attack speed? That's right - get lots and lots of AD. One basic attack takes down 1/5th of the tower's HP in the late game. A split pusher MUST take down towers fast late game.

Auurun3 votes

Having a cap on his stacks seems like good idea. I just hope he wouldn't get out of control, cause that's my main issue with this mechanic. But there's still one problem. Kill in one hit. You just getting to the point i always was afraid of: overrewarding hard skill. And yeah, i have a different logic when it comes to balancing games, different than most of boards actually. I cannot stand the idea of one hit KO. I feel like having a little bit more ad for stack but decaying over time would fit more with preparing assasination, and i don't think having to kill in one blow is necessary. With this q and ult he would have decent aoe, so he could deal lots of damage to most of enemy team, what would make him useful even if he don't kill with these skills. It would also make him have his niche even more interesting. Assasin that want to sneak to whole enemy team and deal lots of damage at once, so your team have easier time winning team fight, while he focus down what he can.

Edit: Also since he have a cc on he's q i can see him ending up building tank items, and simply going in while in stealth and focusing on ccing whole team.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Firstly, I'd like to mention that the intended concept is him being a close-melee "nuker". We have AD assassins that do "burst" - but no tactical "nuke".

Right now, the Q and R range is actually pretty short. I'm cool for lowering down the damage, but in exchange, I do believe the range on Q and R needs to be increased, or the cooldown for E needs to be short enough to be used twice within a teamfight. E might also need to do a little bit of magic damage - currently, it is a no-damage skill, only CC.

The damage I set up is quite ludicrously high at first sight, because he needs to sneak RIGHT NEXT to the enemy due to Q and R's short rrange. That's very hard to do in a team fight - everyone will be dashing and blinking all over the place. This is why the ult has an explosion passive - in case you can't use your Q on the enemy carries, at least ult the nearest tank next to you before you die. Then, you'll have some impact on the teamfight. If you're able to survive, you can sneak back in once your stealth is back. If you come in and can't assassinate anything because of low damage, what's the point?

Another thing to consider is a 1v1 scenario. You snuck up on 50% health Vayne. What if your ult connected and it didn't kill her? Your stealth will be gone, you have no dashes, and your movement speed is slow. Even if we set up the cooldown for Q to be short, it won't hit again. If we can use E again, we might be able to do something, but otherwise, it won't matter if Vayne has only 1 HP remaining - she'll win.

Auurun3 votes

If you have to sneak to already wounded target then ofc you should be able to kill, but what i'm opposing is literally 100-0 someone out of nowhere. But seeing other comments i can say there's some other problems with this concept, so i'd say it's not worth implementing into the game if this had a chance.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Even with the current numbers, I doubt 100 to 0ing anyone will be possible. Even if you're level 16 and have 500 AD, that's only 1300 true damage. All champions have over 1300 HP at level 16. But if raw damage still concerns you, we can just tweak it. But, I'll say it again adamantly, we'll need to buff some other aspect. People seem to be overly concerned with the numbers and not the gigantic amount of conditions that have to be put in place for this to work efficiently.

Anyway, what are some of the other problems with this concept? So far, the only critique I've had was that his Q or ult will be too strong.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

This is beyond toxic. A champion that is permanently stealthed should not have a glorified Sion Q - Evelynn used to have a stun and is was incredibly unfun because she could pop out of stealth, stun you, and then nuke your ass into orbit. She still essentially does that, but you can at least fight back. The Q also does an enormous amount of damage, despite already being an insane ganking tool.

The passive is also unneccessarily complex. His gimmick is already that he is permanently stealthed (which is already incredibly bad for the game), why does he need this little minigame of AD conversion?

The infinite stacking needs to go. You can just farm like a madman and get 200 CS - which would give you 200 AD, a ridiculous number. Its even worse for champion kills. Say he gets fed and gets 10 kills. That's 70 free AD. Say its 15. That's 105. Considering he gets a free pass through most of the game, him being literally perma-stealthed and all, that won't be very hard to do. His passive will already given him ridiculous levels of AD as well to rival Jhin, or even Hecarim; he also steals Cassiopeia's passive as well. That W blink range is also way too high, for someone with permanent stealth he doesn't need a massive-range blink - think Evelynn and Twitch. Their free out is their stealth. In what way does the W scale? There's none on the range, channel time, or black ash. Is it the cooldown?

The ult is equally unfun. He just sneaks up onto you and then presses R to nuke you insanely hard, when his Q already does that and has hard CC attached to it as well. It's also got the coprse explosion passive, which is entirely unnecessary.

Probably one of the most toxic and least cohesive kits I've seen in a while. Has no thematics whatsoever aside from being a cancerous shit you can never see whose lane phase and ganks would be the easiest thing in the world thanks to the fact that he has no penalty for his stealth, unlike champions like Evelynn and Twitch. Needs a ton of work.

LolWutNaniQue3 votes

You're literally blowing a gigantic fit over numbers. I don't think you've read the whole thing properly, because you're imagining scenarios that would be near impossible to pull off with this champion. If you're going to critique something, make sure you read the damn thing and understand it properly.

You can't farm like a madman. You're slow as fuck and your laning is weak. Being a good sneak is the whole point, and his ult is easy to dodge. You moving efficiently and setting up a good angle for your ult to connect is the whole point of this champion. The W teleportation needs to be far because in order to maximize this champion's potential and make it work as intended, you need to be at the right place at the right time. And you can't do that with just your fixed movement speed. I don't think you understand how frustratingly slow 408 move speed at level 18 is for a 100% melee-based champion. It's also there for some measure of versatility. And the thematic cohesiveness is there - it just passed right over your retarded head. You blink in - enemy sees ash, so they'll start running. Blind them, predict how they will move and set up Q. If it connects, follow straight up with R for a finish. You're seriously imagining this to be some hyper Evelynn on steroids. He's the exact fucking opposite. Not only are you bad at reading, you had to sound like some condescending asshole with that pretentious buzzword, "toxic".

THE RlVER KlNG5 votes

Ok, well, I see this conversation is now over. Best of luck on your future concepts, but in the future don't call people retarded and illiterate because they critique your champion (which is still a mess).

Also, 408 movement speed is amazing for a melee champion. Lee Sin (who has the highest base movement speed in the game alongside Pantheon), gets 405 with Swiftness Boots.

LolWutNaniQue4 votes

You were never really worth having a conversation with. Best of luck on your future "critiques". Just because you typed whatever came into your mind doesn't mean your opinions are educated and worth heeding. I debunked all of your claims. The only thing a mess here is you.

Also, it's quite clear you just have a bad sense of game mechanics. You haven't played enough to properly run simulations on how this champion works. Yes, Lee Sin can get over 400 movement speed. He can also dash twice and get speed bonuses from his teammates. Pantheon also has a ranged gap-closer and a semi-global ult. All of his abilities are also ranged. You don't walk up with 405 movement speed in a teamfight and hit things. Like most of melee champions currently viable in the meta. you DASH IN and DASH OUT. Or, you have some mechanic that enables you to tank and sustain through HP recovery.

Again, you're hung up over numbers. You need to think more in terms of practicality.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

You're hung up on ad hominem instead of addressing that I brought forth valid claims. Just because someone gave you a harsh review doesn't mean you should call people names and lash out by calling them bad. You didn't debunk any claim, you used hyperbole that didn't address the problems I brought up. There is no shame in accepting feedback, and, contrary to what you may think, numbers are very important to the champion process. Without them, they either deal no damage or far too much.

'Haven't played enough to properly run simulations'.....neither have you? This isn't a real champion. I have over 1100 games on this account alone, I've critiqued dozens of champions and am currently running this month's champion creation contest. Calm down.

It's fine if you don't like what I said. I can't make you make any changes, even though it appears that you did. Just please be more respectful when presented with a differing opinion.

Sylas Dr3gb0urn32 votes

Pretty sure it wasn't the issues you brought forth to him that he had an issue with, but the way you phrased them. You want him to change his concept, but you cant give him an encouraging and uplifting review that makes him want to do so. If you see the review I gave him below, I pointed out the SAME exact issues that you did, and did so in an encouraging and uplifting way. And the next day when i logged in, he had changed the issues in question, but completely ignored the review you gave, and you pointed out the same issues that i did. If you take more time to think about what you are saying, uplift the person making the post, and act like you VALUE your OWN opinion as well as them, instead of coming across as an angry hateful person, people might respect the opinions you give. I respect your knowledge, the issues you pointed out to this summoner were spot on, but they way you deliver the information needs a LOT of work. Otherwise, like myself and like LolWutNaniQue , your delivery is going to fall short, and people are not going to take you seriously and you are going to get responses like "You were never really worth having a conversation with", like you got here. Even when, like with Hnorah and Apuzah, your review was spot on and the issues you had with it, were correct.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

Let's make a deal.

I'll make a sincere effort to be more uplifting on reviews I post on the Boards and offer more nuanced suggestions.

In return, you promise to quit going out of your way to say hurtful things about both me and my reviews. You also enter Osiris instead of Apuzah (because the former is ten times more interesting than the latter), and we move forward as friends, if not cordial acquaintances.

Sylas Dr3gb0urn32 votes

I really feel that I need to point out... I HAVE NOT GONE OUT OF MY WAY TO DO WHAT YOU THINK I AM GOING OUT OF MY WAY TO DO.... I read his post, THEN read your COMMENT, recognized your name, and then realized that nothing had changed since OUR OWN issue. LIKE YOU, I ENJOY the concepts.

and furthermore, this is where it may surprise you... I WANT YOU TO SUCCEED. But the way you respond to posts, is preventing you from doing so.

SO, I will make said deal with you. But first you have to get rid of the delusion that i am NOW going out of my to find your negative responses. cause even if i was WITH OUR ISSUE, i in NO WAY went out of my way to find this one. And secondly, you have to accept that I ACTUALLY DO WANT YOU to succeed at giving successful reviews.

I have stated to you, and others who reviewed my concept... I CANT GROW without negative feedback. And i meant it when i said it. If i place a fundamentally flawed creation on the boards and its horrible, and everyone says it is awesome, how can i fix the issues it needs? I cant.. because ppl lied to me... Likewise, i dont want you to feed me with delusions. I just want your delivery to be encouraging rather than what some of them have been.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

If that's how you feel then I will do my best to encourage you to new heights, thank you for being open.

Just give me the chance with Osiris and I won't let you down. I would rather do him than rehash what Echoing said about Apuzah.

Sylas Dr3gb0urn32 votes

Thanks. That means a lot.

THE RlVER KlNG3 votes

Likewise. I'd rather be friends than weird Internet archnemeses.

Sylas Dr3gb0urn32 votes

LOL. I hadnt thought of it like this. HOWEVER, Agreed. If you check the CCOS, I have left a new comment.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Well, that was a rather touching exchange between you two. But I bashed your review because it actually was quite worthless. I listened to New Support Meta's review because it was clear he put a lot of thought and effort into it, even though I didn't agree with all of his points.

This is why your "review" was worthless:

  1. You throw in vague buzzwords such as "toxic, unfun, least cohesive". Completely subjective words you just threw in for the sake of throwing in. The cohesiveness is undoubtedly there, it just flew right past over your head. This is probably due to my second point:

  2. You judge this champion in the most impractical scenario - a scenario where he's operating at 120% because every single condition is right. Here's the thing - although I removed the AD passive, it wasn't because I thought it was broken. There was simply a better idea that harmonizes with his playstyle. Here's where you went off the rails in your simulation: a completely non-ranged, immobile champion with no sustain and a fixed attack speed won't farm 200 CS in most games, unless he's playing against bots for 40 minutes. Secondly, 1000~2000 games isn't enough to properly run simulations, good sir. I've been playing since fucking Season 1. I migrated over to the KR server when it opened during Season 2 in 2012, and I've been playing there ever since. I've played the game for nearly 6 years, and I'm pretty sure my total game matches on all of my accounts is somewhere over 8000. I've played this game fucking religiously. And I still cannot have a clear grasp on how this champion might actually function in a real game. Only certain scenarios - very easily predictable scenarios. But games rarely flow as you think it would.

  3. You can't grasp the idea that this champion has many limitations. He has a lot of conditions and prerequisites to be met in order to "nuke your ass into orbit", which you seem to be so terribly afraid of, despite a fair number of champions in the game doing that already with ridiculous mobility. This is the reason why I was convinced you didn't read the thing. You think he's a hyper-omega fusion of Sion, Darius and Evelynn, but unless you blind your enemy or he's distracted, everything this champion does is completely telegraphed and predictable - and most importantly, SLOW. This is why he needs stealth, or else, I'll have to give him a dash ability like 100+ other champions in the game. Without stealth, he'll just be feeding fodder. Also, why can't you understand the fact that his Q is just insanely difficult to hit at all? The only ability in the game that works similarly is Sion's Q, and this one has a shorter range (that is, NOT glorified). Let's not also forget the fact that Sion's Q right now can hardly, hardly be called unbalanced. Comparing him to Evelynn or Twitch or any other stealth champion currently in the game is just you not understanding what I wrote.

  4. Your fixation on numbers is very much like the rest of the Gameplay board. The focus is solely on "too high, too low", without ever thinking much about the context of the numbers. Just like how people look at high winrate and pretend that is evidence of imbalance, you look at the high damage and think this is evidence of imbalance. This sort of one-dimensional thinking does no one any good. High winrate is indicative of imbalance ONLY when in tandem with high playrate, and there are rarely, rarely any champions like this. High damage is indicative of imbalance ONLY when in tandem with accessibility (range, cooldown, number of targets, casting speed). His Q and ult has high damage, very low accessibility. They balance the scale. You can criticize other aspects of it, but you cannot make the point that it is unbalanced with such flimsy, shallow reasoning. For examples of damage and accessibility working in tandem, consider:

Kog'maw ult, Fiora Q, Riven Q, Hecarim Q, Orianna passive, etc. // Zigg's ult, Heimendinger ult+W (massive rocket blast, easily deals 2000+ magic damage if all connects), Lucian ult, Darius Q and ult, etc.

The actual damage numbers are all either too low // too high in proportion to the average champion health pool. But they work without breaking the game. Why?

So, in the end, I can't respect somebody who feels he is entitled to an opinion while being terribly uninformed. I was angry at you because your post was literally a waste of space. I felt sorry for people who had to scroll through it, really. And I would have done the same for anyone who argued in the same fashion.

Shacraval2 votes

hmmm. I like some of this idea, especially the stacking ad and fixed attack speed (make the attacks few but brutal like veigar) but definitely limit stacks and reduce true damage... trade that out for a big bonus to damage when enemy is slowed or stunned :)

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Firstly, I'd like to mention that the intended concept is him being a close-melee "nuker". We have AD assassins that do "burst" - but no tactical "nuke".

Right now, the Q and R range is actually pretty short. I'm cool for lowering down the damage, but in exchange, I do believe the range on Q and R needs to be increased, or the cooldown for E needs to be short enough to be used twice within a teamfight. E might also need to do a little bit of magic damage - currently, it is a no-damage skill, only CC.

The damage I set up is quite ludicrously high at first sight, because he needs to sneak RIGHT NEXT to the enemy due to Q and R's short rrange. That's very hard to do in a team fight - everyone will be dashing and blinking all over the place. This is why the ult has an explosion passive - in case you can't use your Q on the enemy carries, at least ult the nearest tank next to you before you die. Then, you'll have some impact on the teamfight. If you're able to survive, you can sneak back in once your stealth is back. If you come in and can't assassinate anything because of low damage, what's the point?

Another thing to consider is a 1v1 scenario. You snuck up on 50% health Vayne. What if your ult connected and it didn't kill her? Your stealth will be gone, you have no dashes, and your movement speed is slow. Even if we set up the cooldown for Q to be short, it won't hit again. If we can use E again, we might be able to do something, but otherwise, it won't matter if Vayne has only 1 HP remaining - she'll win.

Shacraval3 votes

hhmmm. well, I didn't say remove the stacks, just set a cap. and true damage is a scary thing to play with, and your R is obscene 800 + 1=1 ad would be up to ... what 1400 true damage? or do you mean 800 + 1% of ad meaning potentially 860 max? which would be kind of a set damage barely worth adding the ad bonus. are you trying to make him useless other than a nuke ult and a group slow then death? (asking, not judging)

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Yes. His worth is mostly concentrated on his nuke ult. Like Jinh, unless you've farmed exceptionally well, you'll probably have about 500 AD in the late game. You get level 3 ult at lvl 16. 800+500=1300. The number seems grotesquely high at first glance, yes, but consider that the ult is:

  1. Completely telegraphed. You can see Hnorah just stand there and do some cliche charge motion for a second.
  2. Very short. If you're a champion with any sort of dash ability, you can just dash out, even mid-swing. If you're a champion with very high movement speed, you can literally just WALK out. If you're neither, then you might be in some trouble, but you can still flash out or interrupt his channeling.

Also consider that there already exist champions that can get over 1000 damage on a single ability, though it definitely isn't true damage. These abilities also have some conditions to be met, but nowhere on the level of Hnorah's. For one, most of these abilties are ranged (Lux ult, Veigar ult).

Lastly, what is your proposed cap? I adjusted the stack to 0.5 AD per minion kill, as I didn't think it would change his playstyle retrospectively.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

[deleted]

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

bump

CobaltTheMadMage1 votes

What if instead of permanent AD scaling you just collected stacks that were discharged when your abilities damage champs for bonus damage, either all at once or in increments based on each ability? Something to raise his skill ceiling a little, probably get a refund or higher payout or something for champion farms so he isn't entirely a one-shot-one-kill wonder.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Yes, I will adjust the passive right now. I still think the AD stacking isn't totally bad, but I believe this will be a better way to reward being sneaky and smart:

**-For second Hnorah is stealthed, he receives a Blashemy stack. Every point of Blasphemy increases his damage by 0.5%. The stack is capped at 100 (50% bonus damage). He loses all stacks upon death. **

Now, his stacking passive has nothing to do with CS. Initially, I thought that this champion, for some reason, wouldn't try to farm high CS and focus solely on assassinations because his laning would be hell. But that's actually quite silly, now that I think about it. You can't just ignore CS in this game, unless you're a support.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Also, his ultimate damage has been lowered to adjust for the new passive.

Sylas Dr3gb0urn31 votes

Being fast and mobile and making flashy "sick plays" is all the rage nowadays. Here's something to calm these kids down. For those of you who have retarded hands but still want to be gud with MUH STRATEGY and MUH TACTICOOL PLAYS, this might be right up your alley. A breath of fresh air. Probably. His painstaking immobility might make you want to punch your monitor, occasionally. But, it'll be alright. All you have to do is just be there at the right place and the right time, all the time.

Without this, I wouldn't know which direction you were going for; all I would see is an OP champion. However, I still think you have quite a bit of work to do, as is, and I will get to that.

First Off, I would recommend, no matter what, adding "something" for a lore, you aren't entering any contests or anything, you are just putting your idea out there, and it is DEFINITELY appreciated! HOWEVER, at least ONE paragraph, explaining who he is, where he comes from and where he is going (what's driving HIM) should be sufficient, if you aren't into that type of thing or do not have the time. If you are into that type of thing, or want to do more than JUST put your idea out there (like enter a contest, or make champions on a more regular basis with a fan base, or find a job doing this type of thing or any other number of things driving his creation), and you can find the time, Try to tell a story in which he uses his abilities, to fight off an attacker, or rescue a damsel in distress, or something along those lines. Except for one or two exceptions, EVERY champion in league has a lengthy lore. So go wild and delve into that massive and highly intelligent imagination of yours, and make the reader fall in love with your champion and essentially, YOU. Give the reader a reason to fall in love with him the way that you are.

**Base health at level 1 and 18: 530, 1930 Base mana at level 1 and 18: 200, 800 Base attack damage, armor at level 1: 64, 22 Attack range: 225 **

You later show his base movement speed and attack speed, so you have done a pretty thorough job of giving a pretty detailed Base Numbers and Stats. GOOD JOB! Don't forget his HP Regen/5 and his Mana Regen/5. (With 800 mana though, I would suggest NOT going too crazy with the mana regen)... Check out some other champions that play close to him and see what their mana and mana regens are.

**Hnorah is constantly in stealth (unlike Evelynn, you do not become visible even if you're close). He is briefly visible only when he auto-attacks or uses his W or R abilities. When Hnorah kills a unit (champion, minion, jungle), black ash will form beneath him for 3 seconds. Black ash also forms around his Ethereal Blade whenever he uses an ability. The black ash is visible to the enemy, but Hnorah himself will still be invisible unless artificially revealed. Your movement speed and attack speed are fixed. Movement speed increases by level. Attack speed remains at a constant 0.75 throughout the entire game. Bonus movement speed and attack speed gained from items is converted into attack damage (similar to Jinh's calculation algorithm). Base movement speed: 345 (increases by 3.5 per level). Movement speed at level 18: 408 **

I know where you are coming from, thanks to your Intro and I applaud the attempt. However, combined with "Death's calling" passive effect, you have WAY too much damage going on here. I am sure you are not stuck on the numbers, as I have read from the comments, GREAT! So do yourself, and everyone who reads your concept in the future a favor, if you aren't willing to drop the ENDLESS OVERpowered PERMA-stealth (except when using two abilities and a black ash effect(and the the black ash effect STILL leaves him untargetable from ALL Auto's and MOST spells ---I mean, if you have a Sej or a Lee or something and know where he is theoretically, you can do SOME damage to him and displace him, sure. But he will still remain UNTARGETABLE to most champs that just so happen to play those champs BECAUSE they have those SAME" retarded fingers" you spoke about), PUT a cap on your AD. Jhin can get quite a bit of AD on his algorithm, and he is target-able. But if recreating Jhin's passive wasn't enough, with an endless steath, you then add the effect to "Death's Calling that even FURTHER increases his ad." I don't want to sound like I am cutting your champion down because he is overpowered. But AS is, if RIOT said, "Okay, lets Put Hnorah on the rift", (and you can no longer control his numbers) I can guarantee you, TWO things will happen to Hnorah as is, 1.) He will be perma-banned for MONTHS by the players and RIOT will put them on their extremely long list of champions to fix, and once they finally get around to Nerfing him, 2.) He will brought down and nerf so hard, EVERYONE he ever plays against will laugh at him because he will be TOO weak. You don't want that to happen to your pride, joy and long hours of creating, and I DONT want that to happen FOR you. So either, fix the Perma-Stealth, or put a cap on the max AD he can obtain, and be realistic about the changes. Don't just say, "okay, you asked for a cap, here's a cap... Hnorah can have 2000 max AD...." lol. (Hope this last comment made you laugh)

Anyway, fellow summoner, With that in mind again, I dont want you to think, I am going all in on attacking your idea, To be honest it's a very nice concept. You have nice cooldowns and mana costs EVERYWHERE, thoroughly thought out stats, Your Ethereal Blade, Unforgivable Sins, and End of All Matter seem to be very well thought out, with decent scaling. You really seem to have done an awesome job every where else. And the abilities and theme are pretty cohesive. I like the burst melee AD Veigar idea.

Don't let your pride, and a few negative comments keep you from making the necessary adjustments to polish off a great idea!

If you really need to implement more damage output, and cant think of a way yourself, here are few scenarios (AFTER you place a dmg cap)

Hnorah channels for 2 seconds, then teleports to a location within a 1500-unit radius. Hnorah is fully visible during channeling. Black ash forms after channeling. Passive Effect: Each minion/monster kill permenantly adds 0.5 to his attack damage. A champion kill permanently adds 5 attack damage. Rough estimate of cooldown at level 18 w/ no CDR: 24 seconds Mana cost at levels 1/5: 60/120

Death's Culling: Hnorah channels for 2 seconds, then teleports to a location within a 1500-unit radius. Hnorah is fully visible during channeling. Black ash forms after channeling. Rough estimate of cooldown at level 18 w/ no CDR: 24 seconds Mana cost at levels 1/5: 60/120

These passives are just examples, do what you want, but here are 3 passives you could choose from instead of that TERRIFYING Death's Culling Passive. Passive effect: for the next 4/5/6/7/8 seconds after casting Death's Culling, Every other attack Hnorah makes will deal 150% damage. Passive effect: for the next 4/5/6/7/8 seconds after casting Death's Culling, Hnorah Crit Strike Chance is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% Passive effect: for the next 4/5/6/7/8 seconds after casting Death's Culling, Hnorah goes Berserk, enters a rage, and Charges the nearest enemy, knocking them back 600 units.

Better yet, you have a vivid imagination, and endless resources, come up with a replacement passive of your own. Go wild, come up with something DAMAGE based, if you feel he needs that extra OOMPH on Death's culling

Overalll, my review is the same as everyone else's... Fix that perma stealth (add some more revealing time frames on his other abilities but leave it so that he is always stealth when Auto attacking), and put a cap on his AD. Or, Fix the perma stealth and change that Death's culling passive.

Note: Also, perma stealth in the jungle wont work well, if the minions cant find a target, to attack, they will most likely return to camp and QUICKLY recharge their HP.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

[{quoted}](name=New Support Meta,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=BFOp4zLp,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-01-11T04:03:48.549+0000) Without this, I wouldn't know which direction you were going for; all I would see is an OP champion. However, I still think you have quite a bit of work to do, as is, and I will get to that. First Off, I would recommend, no matter what, adding "something" for a lore, you aren't entering any contests or anything, you are just putting your idea out there, and it is DEFINITELY appreciated!

Well, firstly, I do thank you for your input. However, I left out the lore on purpose. In its stead, I put down a vague visual concept. He's stealth, very black and ashy, and holds a gigantic Excalibur-like blade that shines in holy glory. Although it is true, like you said, that every champion has a lore, it's quite irrelevant (sorry, Riot lore team!). I'm sure that if this were to theoretically become realized, coming up with a lore then and there would be no problem. I am also under the impression that the lore isn't imperative for a champion concept.

Don't forget his HP Regen/5 and his Mana Regen/5.

Okay. Perhaps, later, when this gains more traction. Putting that in there right now would make this even longer and more info-dense than it already terribly is.

So do yourself, and everyone who reads your concept in the future a favor, if you aren't willing to drop the ENDLESS OVERpowered PERMA-stealth (except when using two abilities and a black ash effect(and the the black ash effect STILL leaves him untargetable from ALL Auto's and MOST spells ---I mean, if you have a Sej or a Lee or something and know where he is theoretically, you can do SOME damage to him and displace him, sure. But he will still remain UNTARGETABLE to most champs that just so happen to play those champs BECAUSE they have those SAME" retarded fingers" you spoke about)

Oh. Yes, very good point. And a very silly mistake on my part! I will adjust this immediately:

-Hnorah will become visible for 2 seconds after auto-attacking.

I am also in agreement, now, that he actually can simply be perma-stealth in a teamfight if he just uses nothing else but Q and E. But, if using another ability reveals his stealth, then the black ash passive becomes quite meaningless. So, I will add this in:

-Hnorah is visible when affected by any form of crowd control.

So, an auto-attack based champion can either rely on a teammate to reveal him through CC, or plop a pink-ward down. Those things are cheap nowadays, so it'll be fine.

If you really need to implement more damage output, and cant think of a way yourself, here are few scenarios (AFTER you place a dmg cap) These passives are just examples, do what you want, but here are 3 passives you could choose from instead of that TERRIFYING Death's Culling Passive. Passive effect: for the next 4/5/6/7/8 seconds after casting Death's Culling, Every other attack Hnorah makes will deal 150% damage. Passive effect: for the next 4/5/6/7/8 seconds after casting Death's Culling, Hnorah Crit Strike Chance is increased by 5/10/15/20/25% Passive effect: for the next 4/5/6/7/8 seconds after casting Death's Culling, Hnorah goes Berserk, enters a rage, and Charges the nearest enemy, knocking them back 600 units.

I will indeed change Death's Calling's passive. And perhaps the name of the ability, too, later. It's much too cheesy, but I didn't bother with the names too much during the writing process. As for your suggestions, 2 of them strengthen his auto-attacks, even though his attack rate is fixed at 0.75 and is quite slow. I don't see a reason why his skill kit should give the player hints that he should auto-attack more. As for the 3rd suggestion, I am adamantly against this champion having any sort of dash ability. We have enough dashing and blinking champions as it is. Much too many. Also, for the record, I do not personally dislike flashy fast-moving dashy champions. My main champions of choice are actually all like that. I simply feel that the game could use more champions that are "good" without dashes. Anyway, my proposed change:

-For every second Hnorah is stealthed, he receives a Blashemy stack. Every point of Blasphemy increases his damage by 0.5%. The stack is capped at 100 (50% bonus damage). He loses all stacks upon death

Note: Also, perma stealth in the jungle wont work well, if the minions cant find a target, to attack, they will most likely return to camp and QUICKLY recharge their HP.

He's visible for 2 seconds after auto-attacking.

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

Also, his ultimate damage has been lowered to adjust for his new passive.

Sylas Dr3gb0urn31 votes

Well, firstly, I do thank you for your input. However, I left out the lore on purpose. In its stead, I put down a vague visual concept. He's stealth, very black and ashy, and holds a gigantic Excalibur-like blade that shines in holy glory. Although it is true, like you said, that every champion has a lore, it's quite irrelevant (sorry, Riot lore team!). I'm sure that if this were to theoretically become realized, coming up with a lore then and there would be no problem. I am also under the impression that the lore isn't imperative for a champion concept.

A visual concept and a lore are typically both requested. While neither are, REQUIRED as you say, not having them hurts rather than helps a concept (now matter how lengthly, you feel it may be). But if you do not want to implement one, the choice is yours and yours alone.

Okay. Perhaps, later, when this gains more traction. Putting that in there right now would make this even longer and more info-dense than it already terribly is.

EX: HP Regen/5 (5); Mana Regen/5 (5) The above example took up only one line, but, suit yourself. As with the lore, NOT adding it can only hurt your concept, rather than the opposite (again, no matter how lengthly you feel it may be). But no one is going to twist your arm.

As for the rest, seeing as it is an IMPROVEMENT, I won't further hinder you with my own thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to come up with a concept creation and sharing your idea with the rest of us!

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

The regen stats have been added just for level 1. The lore also has been indirectly added through ability names and the description of his NEW ultimate. It's open-ended lore (some might say vague).

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

I have changed his ultimate - for better usability and practicality, as well as uniqueness. Although there were comments that the previous ultimate did too much damage, I was mostly unconvinced to change it because I designed it to be incredibly difficult to use - so difficult, it now actually seems so unpractical as to be silly. Also, it seemed a bit too much like a glorified Q. The current ultimate, The Bell Tolls for Thee, is quite clear and simple in how it can be used - and it still deals TONS of TRUE damage. And hey - overhead swings with big swords are cool, too. This was also an opportunity to perhaps add a touch of lore.

Also, ability names have been changed for slightly less cringe, and E now does a bit of magic damage (for wave clearing without using auto-attacks, in order to keep stealth for his stacks)

LolWutNaniQue1 votes

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