On OCE: Riot posted about what it means to be a support: thinking about a new support type

Hammermancer·11/16/2016, 6:54:47 PM·13 votes·2,557 views
Some thoughts on Support

Preface and Explanation

So we all see it, not enough people are playing support. Riot currently thinks this is due to not feeling like you do enough for your team.

that's not true, i can't think of a single support that i don't notice their Clutch heals, or perfect bubbles, the on point hooks, ect

To me i think the issue with support is how it is intended to be played

Sona Soraka Nami Blitzcrank Janna and the rest are all amazing champions..... and then there's Bard ... he's cool i guess (That was a joke >.>) but not as many people want to run around trying to do that support business of outplaying an enemy.... by having your carry just do all the work after you land an ability.

The fact is more people want to play as Divers, Fighters, Mages, assassins, and juggernauts... and there is a very little overlap with the support role

yeah sure we have Trundle and Volibear or Lux and Zyra

But these champions are all sub-optimal when played in the support role, they're still good but they aren't as good as they would normally be as supports

And while the "true" supports are great champions, they don't appeal to as many people. I maintain that its the playstyle of these champions that fails to draw massive crowds as opposed to the lack of attention and items

hell we just put out yet another item that makes Soraka heal more... she didn't need it. Supports have cheap itemization so they don't need more gold income (Though more options would be nice and i'm not knocking that)

we don't need more of the same, we need a new class of supports, and aggressive skirmishing DPS based support, something that prides outplays. we need supports that feel Badass. There's a reason why more people play Zed than Corki , and it's not just numbers. there's a reason why people still cling on to Azir but very few play as Galio , people get different feelings from the idea of that mobility, the dodges, executes, assassins and fighters, burst mages, ect.

so I've been really thinking hard about a new cast of support... something designed to offer that missing feeling of bad ass that many players feel a preference for, an idea to practically bring more players Willingly into the position, as opposed to us all taking turns doing something that we would rather be leaving to a teammate again not because you don't like it, but because you would rather be playing a different type of champion, because that is your preference, Ideally i would like to see two champions of each type come out, one of AP basis, and one of AD basis.


New support subclasses: Warlords, Coordinators, and Binders

Warlordsare skirmishing fighters or sustain mages designed for the support role, they function by staying in a fight long enough to apply Zone debuffs, these champions might lower resistances, damage output or apply slows, they usually function in melee or short range. they have hard cc in the general forms of Stuns, Taunts, and knock ups

**Coordinators **are champions who function similarly to Mobility mages and assassins, they gain bonuses for staying near allies, and they grant allies values of offensive stats, such as attack damage, life steal, movement speed. They have hard CC in the forms of Re-positions, fears, and snares

Both of these new classes of support are designed to feel like you can actually 1v1 people. wave clear if needed, and possibly even carry come late game. Warlords will feel close in spirit to champions like JarvanIV Riven Jax Darius but will sacrifice some of their solo power for debuff capacity, while coordinators will be designed to feel like Zed LeeSin Leblanc Ahri with the ability to provide tactical advantage while keeping hyper mobile.

Binders are based on AP carries and AD carries, these champions provide mutual buffs between them and a single ally, binders are based on the already existing niche of carry supports.Good examples of champion who could easily be reworked into binders (Which i pray never happens to them) would be Kayle Nidalee because they have poke, heals, and buffs. A binder would do a little less damage but would instead provide at least two buffs to themselves and a nearby ally and at least one cc, they would be entirely based on synchronization spells and passives, such as marks that make an enemy take more damage from allies and themselves for x seconds. you can see elements of Binder mechanics in the kits of Leona Nunu Warwick Mordekaiser Kalista, which would be their abilities which buff themselves and allies and the abilities which function better when an ally is nearby. The primary difference in how a binder ability would interact is that the binder would provide a larger buff to their allies then themselves

Cool concepts

Warlords

Coordinators

  1. Umbra, an amazing assassin support who leashes kills for allies by Candurill

Binders 1.

Other supports

  1. Oracle: A vision control support who has elements of both Warlords and Coordinators by DrugsForRobots

Edit: I put a lot of work into this guys, please give me some real thoughts and feedback before down voting Edit: formatting Edit: swapped out Thresh with Janna to make a more consistent statement *Edit: Moved footer to the actual footer Edit: Changed name from Banner lord to Warlord based on a suggestion from Ralanr Edit Added better formatting and a new "Cool support concepts" section Edit Added Candurill's champion concept: Umbra, The Dark Servant Edit Added DrugsForRobots' champion concept: Oracle, the World's Witness

45 Comments

Sherogarth11/16/2016, 11:01:02 PM3 votes

Too bad that riot hates auras and buffs because its "invisibe power".

Actally debuffer/curser could be really cool new type.

As for warlord i imgine it as this kind of champion that goes into the battle and "inspires" his team as long as he is alive.

There were even ideas for some kind minion/summon commander (imagine something like Yorick or Malza but support).

As for high skill supports, right now we only got Thresh and Bard... we need more like them.

Corpesmen1811/16/2016, 7:21:24 PM1 votes

Good ideas but I would imagine that if your ideas are adopted into league they would be as a champion each. Each class you mentioned are pretty specific in that they would all have similar abilities if there were more than one of each and not as much room for uniqueness which Riot have expressed how much they like unique champions although they have gone too far sometimes trying to make champions too unique (AurelionSol AzirIvern ). Not saying your idea is bad its actually very good and I would like to see champions like these in League but each sublass you mentioned I think would be its own champion.

Ralanr11/16/2016, 7:27:53 PM1 votes

Warlord support

Gimme.

Candurill11/16/2016, 7:31:37 PM1 votes

Hey I actually had a go at creating a new kind of support :D This one based more on an assassin, where he goes in to actually deal damage. Take a look and see if its what you had envisioned. Umbra, The Dark Servant

I am a support main myself and I must say that I never actually feel less then my other team mates. Though that might be because I generally play with friends. They see that I am a good support and how I facilitate their plays, and thank me for it. Yea I never actually get a pentakill myself, but thats ok :) P.S. In the LGBT community, there are support mains TO SPARE...seriously, find yourself a few gay guys (Like me) and you'll have enough supports to last you through the whole season XD

DrugsForRobots11/16/2016, 7:58:18 PM1 votes

I'm curious to know what you think about the vision game and whether or not it could be made more exciting / what role it plays it turning people off of the support role.

I know your post is about having more badass supports but I've been pushing for Riot to make some support champions who specialize in getting vision of the enemies (at the same time, I'd like to see them take wards in a different direction, but that's a post for another day...)

See:

Oracle, a psychic watcher who can control her Field of Sight and manipulate the vision of allies and enemies. (Leans toward a Captain / Coordinator, I think?)

Imoen, a mousey yordle thief who is super mobile and sneaky and adept at spying on her foes and harassing from a distance. (Would be a Binder, maybe?)

CoolKnightST11/16/2016, 8:04:20 PM1 votes

Introducing a new support type is actually really simple. Worlds pretty much gave us the concept: DEBUFF Supports

Debuff supports are champions capable of debuffing the enemy team reducing the treat and make them easyer to kill. Example of this already exist with champions like: MissFortune support (item 3071 / item 3033 ) and Kayle support. Now think about a support champion that actually would be designed for the role.


The second one is even more easy since it actually already defined on it's own. Namely the magic penetration supports like Zyra & Brand. They basicly can't be ignored anymore. Implement an alternative build path for item 3136 so whe get options. And voila their you have a group of carry supports.


Than we can think outside the box. Implementing unique concept with unique buildpaths like an assasin support. Think about an zhoyna ult on a targetted champions. If you kill someone you will transfer the kill towards the zhonya's champions. The core items could be item 3145 & item 3285.


Ones we got their we can go even further with things like an tanky champion with a scaling that is capable of dealing sustain magic damage. It could scale like this with mana items like item 3110/item 3025 & item 3010. I personally thought straight about a Blitzcrank rework when I thought about it.

N Pelosi11/16/2016, 8:35:35 PM1 votes
  1. Support relies directly on their bot lane partner to be effective unless there is a massive skill disparity between opponents.

  2. Support earns far less exp than the rest of the team.

  3. Support earns less gold, while simultaneously sinking gold into less slot efficient items, leading to an overall weaker champ.

That said, I personally play support because it's a high conflict position usually. I like to play pvp games to pvp, not fight npcs. It's why I find Ezreal, first back tear Ez in particular, so damn annoying to have on my team. He's useless to my playstyle lol.

Mouse53411/17/2016, 3:35:38 AM1 votes

The problem I have with the role in general is the fact that my support style is not really good in itemization. I like supports like brand, but items for that style are expensive, automatically putting my mid game behind, and generally looked down upon (I have been told off for playing a 'mid' in the bot lane).

The issue is compiled on when you find out that this style becomes better if you have gold and exp, something that supports don't get much of in the first place. My favorite style is locking down and providing damage, this is just not supported in the role unless you snowball.

Edit: I have no idea why the need for subclasses for support is necessary, just better item options would solve this issue. Best way to do that is slightly increase he gold income and experience and you solve the issue period. More debuffing options would be cool, but that is encompassed in enchanters. AD supports would be neat, but I feel like it still is just a gameplay issue more than anything.

Lacking item impact, champ impact, and on top of it all, being independently lacking leaves the role lacking in terms of every other role. It literally feels out of place compared to all the other roles, and that is just weird. Support-likes in other lanes don't get this issue as bad, and that automatically denotes that the role needs to be fixed to match up with the game, the role is just straight up outdated in its capacities.

Xp, gold, and eliminating the need for a full support item builds would just outright fix this problem. It opens up champ selections, it opens up items, and it places more emphasis on personal achievements. All of which I have seen repeated by everyone about issues with the class since I have been playing. Early season 4 for those that care, but it has no merit in this discussion. Legend holds that this has almost always been the case, which tells me the role doesn't fit the game design values in the first place.

Tell me, would you feel better not being a slave to someone you don't know, not being told what to buy, and not being told who to play? I do think so, and that is not in any role value but support. It literally is out dated in the games context, be the best for your team. Supports are designed in the opposite, the team requires you to be the best. These statements are similar, but they mean differing executions.

Edit 2: grammar is are hard.

xV2x11/17/2016, 9:37:46 AM1 votes

I'm so torn between this "how do we hype up support more" talk. I honestly feel AMAZING playing support. Like every support I play I know where the clutch heal or clutch CC happened so I know where i made the impact. I don't think they need more champs as much as they need to add a few more bells and whistles. Like maybe a "support pentakill", if u hard cc'd every champ and they all died within a certain amount of time u were rewarded with like maybe about half the extra gold as a true Penta. Or maybe they do a thing kinda like garen; if u hard cc and kill the highest kDa player u were rewarded with either extra gold or just recognition if it resulted in the following ace of ur enemy team. I wouldn't mind that. I think it comes down to the average player doesn't understand the true impact a support can have. So maybe a few simple THIS SUPP IS THE TRUE MVP spotlights would add a lil hype for the role. Just my thoughts.

X420BlazeX11/17/2016, 2:20:49 PM1 votes

I thought I was the only one playing Janna also +1 on the subclasses

Xienwolf11/17/2016, 10:48:40 PM1 votes

Doing the jungler treatment may work. Give us a support specific summoner spell.

To ensure non-support do not want it: You do not get gold when last hitting minions if you have this Summoner. What could it do? I would say just like Smite, you make this spell change based on a linked item you purchase.

1 - health and mana restore 2 - Shen Ult style teleport? 3 - Reverse Jayce shot field. Kind of a windwall, but instead of stopping projectiles it slows them down, and (if the code can handle it) turns them into skillshots instead of target tracking shots. 4 - exhaust 5 - AoE cleanse 6 - Some form of CC

So if you buy a support item (requires base summoner), ,then your enhancement on that support item sets what kind of spell you have. The base spell should be something useful for initial laning, like maybe a 10 second reverse-Baron (enemy minions near you are drastically weaker, allowing your ADC to quickly farm them, or to more easily ignore minion aggro during a trade).

Or make the initial spell be ward placement, since that would remove the need for sight stones as a first item.

The concept you have of classes would work well with the support only itemization. Build stats and specific spell effects toward the various support classes.

To keep support items low cost (since no gold income really available) and support focused, make support items stack together beyond the classic 3 tiers. Instead of supports scaling by AP or AD, have them scale by effectively having no final build. Your Tier 3 items combine together to become Tier 4, then together for Tier 5, and then Tier 6. And no game will ever last long enough to get a full 6 tier 6 items.

This infinite stacking of items also lets you lock all of the support items to only be worthwhile to supports, without making EVERY item rely on the ownership of the summoner spell. Every support intended item is pretty cheap, but absolutely anyone can build up to the Tier 2 version of the items. At that point you have to blend in one of the Summoner Spell linked items to break into Tier 3 though.

So, you could still have sightstone, and have them available to all players pretty cheap. But sightstones build to the next tier only through a support-only enhancement.

A team could try to abuse this by going with the support summoner spell on more than 1 player. But since this spell locks out last-hitting gold, you have two players who COULD stack to insane levels, but without an ADC in lane to feed them kills/assists, your enemy will scale faster than you, and you will not survive long enough to get that late game scale benefit.

Zach Sandwhich11/16/2016, 7:07:20 PM1 votes

Sounds cool, but in my opinion the support champions are p fucking cool to most people. Bard and Nautilus got me into league, and I'm pretty sure everyone considers Thresh to be a badass Champion.

Deadlinezero11/18/2016, 1:29:10 AM1 votes

I had idea about how make support items more gold efficient without braking them for other positions. Scaling. If support items we to scale with things like being near minion killed by an ally, getting assists, killing wards, cc'ing an enemy champ, or maybe even an "ASSIST SPREE." after the required amount an item can be combined with sightstone and the support item to make the one of 3 supper support items with stupid stats (please no more actives). I think there are a lot of ways that this could help with with the gold efficiency of there items and make it more rewarding to do the supports job.

That would also boost the role without the other positions wanting to grab the items.

By the way I also had an idea about how to reward/show support stats at the end of the game. Those stats that I would be interested in seeing at the end of the game would be, damage mitigated or blocked by shields and aura's. Also a CC counter at the end could be cool to like X player Stunned, Rooted, knocked up, slowed, silenced, pulled, or pushed away enemy champs XX times.

Those stat at the end of the game would show something like this guy blocked this all this damage and got a cc for each kill we had. And it could show the work the support is putting in.

Just some ideas that I think were worth mentioning.