@Skins team, @KateyKhaos, @Galetta: Why has the scope for 975 skins changed?

Thales·5/2/2015, 5:45:48 AM·11 votes·3,204 views

tl;dr: 975 RP skins seem to be consistently lower scope these last six months than they have been at any point since the skin renaissance. Why?

I’d like to talk about 975 RP skins. This is largely an expansion of my post here, now that I’ve had some more time to review things and assemble my thoughts.

What I’m not trying to do is complain about the quality of the skins, or accuse Riot of being money-hungry, or anything of the sort. There’s been a lot of good stuff this last year in terms of skins. We’ve gotten many high quality 750 skins. We’re on track to have many more skins released this year than in any previous year, and I’d say Riot has done a good job at hitting a wide range of themes and champions. Models have gotten really nice, and where they’re done, new particles, animations, and sounds are of almost universal high quality.

But it’s the “where they’re done” that’s the issue. I’ve noticed lately that in recent months, the scope of the typical 975 RP skin has notably contracted. Research bore out my suspicion: there’s been a lot less in the way of major particle or sound changes at 975 RP lately, and animation changes (besides recall), though never common, have all but vanished.

Let me show you what I’m talking about. Let’s look at non-launch, non-Legacy 975 RP skins released since 2013. I’m not bothering to mention changes to splash art, model/textures, or new recall animations and sounds outside of exceptional cases, since those are present on virtually all. Note that it's possible I'm missing some change to the skin; I've played most of these on PBE, but I don't own most on live.

2015:

  • SSW Twitch — Slightly different particle on Venom Cask
  • SSW Thresh — Particles colors changed, in a way similar to a preexisting skin
  • Blood Moon Zilean — New particles on autos, most skills, some sound changes
  • Guardian of the Sands Skarner — New particles for most skills, no new sounds
  • Guardian of the Sands Rammus — Fairly static wing particle (or possibly model) added to Q, significant model changes during recall
  • Arclight Vayne — Some particle changes, sound change for ult
  • Definitely Not Udyr — Several models for the one champ, fairly minimal recall animation
  • Secret Agent Xin — Briefcase particle on ult, model changes during recall
  • Warring Kingdoms Kat — Petal particles on several abilities, but a particle light champ
  • Warring Kingdoms Nid — Likewise, but slightly more visible particle changes
  • Blood Moon Elise — Larger scale particle changes, alternate form model and spiderling model changed
  • Blood Moon Thresh — Thematic particle changes, different looking souls, new lantern model

2014:

  • Order of the Lotus Karma — Particle changes, but mostly in color
  • Guardian of the Sands Kha — Particle changes, sound changes, very hard champ to make skins for
  • Headhunter Cait — Particle changes, entirely different sound effects, minor animation tweaks
  • Hazmat Heimerdinger — Color changes on some particles, new rocket and turret model, a couple new sounds for autoattack, suit irising
  • Woad Scout Quinn — New particles, new Valor model, new sounds in some places
  • River Spirit Nami — New particles, very notable sound changes on recall animation
  • Night Hunter Rengar — Particle changes, most in color, toggleable hood animation
  • Atlantean Syndra — Fancy new dark sphere, new sounds
  • Heartseeker Ashe — All new particles, new sounds
  • Scorched Earth Renekton — New particles, I don't believe there's new sounds
  • Lunar Goddess Diana — Particle changes, but mostly in color

2013:

  • Popstar Ahri — Some new particles, some new sounds, especially on recall
  • Sultan Gangplank — Possibly a new particle on the ult
  • Officer Vi — New particles and sounds on ult
  • Pool Party Leona — Some new particles on skills, sunflowers everywhere, significant new model on recall
  • Pool Party Lee Sin — Particle and sound changes on Q, significant new model on recall
  • Pool Party Renekton — New sounds and particles on abilities, significant new model on recall
  • Woad King Darius — Some particle changes, particle light champion
  • Ghost Bride Morgana — Significant sound and particle changes on abilities
  • Runeguard Volibear — Some particle changes, but a fairly particle light champion
  • Ice Drake Shyvana — Particle color changes, some new sounds, alternate form model and recall animation
  • Gladiator Draven — Some new particles, new VO line on recall
  • Headhunter Nidalee — Major sound changes, moderate particle changes, especially given a fairly particle light champion
  • Celestine Soraka — Particle color changes, some extra particle effects while walking, new death animation
  • Debonair Jayce — Minor particle or model changes to his Acceleration Gates
  • Dragonwing Corki — New sounds and particles for all abilities
  • Jade Fang Cassiopeia — New particles on all abilities
  • Panda Annie — New particles on all abilities, adorable new model on recall animation

One of the first things to notice is just how many 975 RP skins we’ve had so far this year. By mid-late May, we will have had more 975 RP skins released than were released in all of 2014, and more than 2/3 as many as were released in all of 2013. Good job! Although if the skin team hasn’t grown commensurately, that might explain right there why the scope has declined.

First I should show evidence that it has. In 2013, 17 skins priced at 975 RP were released (unless I explicitly say otherwise, I’m omitting champion release skins, legacy skins, and Primetime Draven). Of these, 8 had new sounds (for things other than recalls), 2 had new VO lines or (non-recall) animations, and 9 had what I’d subjectively deem major particle changes (new color scheme, new theme, etc., and clearly visibly different across most abilities).

In 2014, there were 11 skins priced at 975 RP. Of these, 6 had new sounds, 2 or 3 had new animations, and I’d seriously say that all 11 had notably different particles.

In 2015 so fair, 12 skins have been seen at 975 RP. Of these, only 2 have had any sound changes outside of their recall animations. None have had new animations or VO tweaks. I’d charitably say 6 of them have major particle changes. This is all at a significantly lower rate than in previous years.

The difference becomes clearer when looking at skin lines from year to year. I understand why Headhunter Akali is 1350 — her new Twilight Shroud looks technically challenging — but it’s hard to be confident that Headhunter Caitlyn, with her full new suite of sounds and moving helm, would be at 975 if she were released today. Similarly, Guardian of the Sands Kha’Zix has significant sound changes, and different particles for every ability. Plus, it’s Kha’Zix, one of the hardest champions to make skins for. Guardian of the Sands Rammus, at the same price, has virtually static winglets that appear during his Q, and no other particle or sound changes.

To be clear, Riot has not violated the requirements they laid out for a 975 RP skin in Hippalus’s April 2013 post explaining the new skin pricing system. That said, that post establishes a fairly low bar — only a new model, texture, and splash art, not even the new recall animation that no 975 is now released without.

But there has been a change in 2015, and I’d be grateful if someone on the Skins team could explain. What factors are different this year than in previous ones? Is the origin of this change philosophical, technical, or practical? Can we continue to expect lower scope projects for 975 RP skins? To what extent is this tied to the notable increase in quantity of skins?

I’d really appreciate any clarification you can provide. If anyone has any questions or concerns about my analysis, let me know, and I’ll be happy to address them or adjust it accordingly. Thank you.

11 Comments

Riotmoonstones5/2/2015, 4:49:09 PM7 votes

Hey Thales,

Thanks again for taking the time to compile this list! ^-^

animation changes (besides recall), though never common, have all but vanished.

There are a few instances where new animation is added, but in a lot of cases (aside from Guardian of the Sands Rammus), they're a lot less obvious. A few examples of this would be

SSW Twitch - he has new turn tech on his tail to make it look better during movement. Headhunter Akali - turn tech in her hair, again, to make her hair look better during movement. Surprise Party Amumu - 'jiggle tech' on his cake, so when he moved, the cake wobbled. (That was all hand animated!)

Yes, the latter two are 1350 RP examples, but it better rounds out the kinds of animations we could potentially add to a 975 RP skin, especially for a champion who is particle light, and could really benefit from it.

One of the first things to notice is just how many 975 RP skins we’ve had so far this year. By mid-late May, we will have had more 975 RP skins released than were released in all of 2014, and more than 2/3 as many as were released in all of 2013. Good job! Although if the skin team hasn’t grown commensurately, that might explain right there why the scope has declined.

Although the skins team isn't doubling any time soon, our team size isn't the explanation for a lesser scope in some cases for 975 RP skins.

The approach we take with a skin, even as far back as concept is, "what are the kind of things this skin will really need to really fulfill a particular fantasy/thematic?" In some cases, like Warring Kingdoms Katarina, her weapon is still the same, so new sounds aren't necessary for her attacks, but instead, adding new particles is something that could really enhance the skin. As another example, for Arclight Vayne, we really wanted to give her a skin that switched up her particles, especially since this skin was, for lack of a better term, Vayne flipped on her head. When we looked at her sounds, we noted that her ult sound didn't really match up with the thematic, which is why we changed it. In the cases of 975 RP skins, if a sound fits with the thematic, we'll leave it alone, and work harder to fulfill the thematic elsewhere, such as with the particles, model, or animation. Sure, we could add crazy bells and whistles to all of our skins, but that'd likely push them all the be legendary, and that's not quite fair.

The difference becomes clearer when looking at skin lines from year to year. I understand why Headhunter Akali is 1350 — her new Twilight Shroud looks technically challenging — but it’s hard to be confident that Headhunter Caitlyn, with her full new suite of sounds and moving helm, would be at 975 if she were released today. Similarly, Guardian of the Sands Kha’Zix has significant sound changes, and different particles for every ability. Plus, it’s Kha’Zix, one of the hardest champions to make skins for. Guardian of the Sands Rammus, at the same price, has virtually static winglets that appear during his Q, and no other particle or sound changes.

In regards to Headhunter Akali versus Headhunter Caitlyn, I'm going to reference a post from one of the e-commerce guys who works with skins, DontHassleDaHoff, since his team decides on price, whereas the creative side of things (skins team) focuses on scope of the skin.

Similarly, Guardian of the Sands Kha’Zix has significant sound changes, and different particles for every ability. Plus, it’s Kha’Zix, one of the hardest champions to make skins for. Guardian of the Sands Rammus, at the same price, has virtually static winglets that appear during his Q, and no other particle or sound changes.

In the case of Guardian of the Sands Kha'Zix versus Rammus, I'm going to draw back to the idea of fulfilling a thematic. Kha'Zix, due to his evolutionary nature (heh), requires a lot more in terms of particles or sounds to really make him feel like a guardian of the sands, whereas Rammus' kit is much more straight forward and doesn't need as much to make him feel like a scarab.

I was actually QA on Rammus, so I was compiling player feedback on this guy, so I'd be happy to share some player sentiments around this skin. Initial feedback was super positive for him. One of the biggest requests for the skin itself wasn't that he needed x, y, or z added to the skin, but instead, they wanted him to be a dung beetle during his recall, haha. (We did consider doing it while the skin was skill in development, but ultimately decided his currently recall worked stronger thematically.)

We noticed a similar trend with Secret Agent Xin Zhao - players weren't commenting on how all of the particles didn't change. Instead, they were commenting about how they were happy with the one that did, and how they liked the model itself, and how it was a huge departure from his base, and from any of his existing skins.

Again, it's a matter of fulfilling the thematic of the skin.

Not to get off topic from 975 RP skins, but Arcade Miss Fortune and Forsaken Jayce would both be solid examples as to how adding SFX and/or voice processing really change the feel of a skin, and how not having all of these features in these skins wouldn't really make the thematic as solid.

To be clear, Riot has not violated the requirements they laid out for a 975 RP skin in Hippalus’s April 2013 post explaining the new skin pricing system. That said, that post establishes a fairly low bar — only a new model, texture, and splash art, not even the new recall animation that no 975 is now released without.

Yikes, that's an old post! If you haven't already, I'd suggest bookmarking this page, as it's the one to get updated should price tiers be modified for any reason.

I think you bring up a good point. Yes, technically a new model, texture and splash art are "required" to make something a 975 RP skin.

Let's talk through a couple examples to get a better sense of what that means.

Definitely Not Udyr - 975 RP skin. New model, texture, has a new splash (shared with a 1350 RP skin, and 3 750 RP skins because it was the April Fools/URF skins thematic), and has a recall (which no one got until the splash was released!). Yes, this one does fit closer to the minimum requirements of a 975 RP skin, however, rather than one model, he actually has four, and each one has a different texture.

But that's who Udyr is, he swaps to four forms. Correct! In his lower priced the skin (Black Belt Udyr, 520 RP), you'll notice that there's very little change between stances, and it's not a solid thematic for Udyr as a whole. Now, let's look at Primal Udyr (975 RP). He's got a different model for each stance, and it better encapsulates Udyr. This guy also falls into the category of before we did recalls for 975 RP+ skins, so he's just idling when recalling.

We've got a ton more skins planned for this year, all varying in price tier. I hope you're pleasantly surprised as the year roles on, and I'd be happy to hear your feedback along the way. :]

I hope this clears up some of the questions or concerns you may have about this particular price tier and the thought process behind scoping out a skin.

TL;DR - we do what we feel a skin needs to fulfill the particular thematic we're trying to execute on.

Eyrgos5/2/2015, 10:58:25 PM2 votes

So... why didn't diamonds result in scoping out Syndra's new skin?!?!?

Or spade particles for Ezreal... I mean, what goes through your guys' minds?

Please, I'm really struggling to understand why you guys relegate such skins to skin-tiers that're clearly below the mark.