Boards›Concepts & Creations

My Take on a Mechanically Difficult Juggernaut (Nirvana, The Fallen of Samsara)

KarmaWhore·10/11/2015, 5:56:33 PM·10 votes·2,348 views

As the person responsible for the discussion on mechanically difficult juggernauts, I felt obligated to post my design for a mechanically difficult champion. If anyone has any questions about any abilities or the motivations of certain parts of the champion concept, feel free to ask. It’s a long read, but I hope you enjoy.

Champion Concept: Nirvana, The Fallen of Samsara

This champion concept is created as a follow-up to the post I created earlier about how to make a difficult tank champion. Based on Buddhist mythology, the champion Nirvana is a high-risk, high reward bruiser, which involves a lot of foresight in decision making as well as mechanics in order to manage form changes. I’m not good with the numbers themselves, so I’m just putting down the concept of how he works. Feel free to plug and chug yourself.

Passive: Domains of Desire The effect of the passive will change depending on the form that Nirvana is currently in. If Nirvana has no form, the passive gives him lifesteal. Increases at level 6, 11, and 16.

Q – Form: Demon Q will change Nirvana into his Demon form. The Demon form focuses mostly on defensive abilities.

Skills in Form: Demon Passive: Domain of Naraka Nirvana gains bonus armor and magic resist. Increases per level of Form: Demon. All of the skills in Form: Demon level up when Nirvana levels up Form: Demon Skill Q: Form: Return Removes the Demon Form and returns Nirvana to his base form. Skill W: Sating Bite Next hit skill that grants Nirvana a shield on hit. There is a base shield, which also scales up with enemy max health and Nirvana’s own max health. When Sating Bite is used, all skills in Form: Demon go on cooldown for the duration of Sating Bite’s cooldown. Cooldown ~10 at level 1 and ~6 at level 5 Skill E: Demonic Chains Nirvana throws a skillshot tethering chain at an enemy champion, which lasts for three seconds (does not last through form changes). While the tether is in place, Nirvana steals armor and magic resist from the enemy, stacking for each second the tether is in place. If the tether lasts the full three seconds, the bonus gained by Nirvana and lost by the enemy is doubled and lasts another 2 seconds after the chain has disappeared. Cooldown ~20 at level 1 and ~16 at level 5 Skill R: Mara’s Spite Nirvana gains percent damage reflection scaling on his armor and magic resist. When Mara’s Spite is used, all skills in Form: Demon go on cooldown for the duration of Mara’s Spite. Cooldown ~140 at level 1 and ~100 at level 5

W – Form: Human W will change Nirvana into his Human form. The Human form focuses mostly on crowd control abilities.

Skills in Form: Human Passive: Innovative Resilience Nirvana gains tenacity (CC duration reduction). Increases with each level of Form: Human. All of the skills in Form: Human level up when Nirvana levels up Form: Human Skill Q: Wounding Stab Nirvana’s next hit slows the enemy. Damage of the skill scales marginally on AD. When Wounding Stab is used, all skills in Form: Human go on cooldown for the duration of Wounding Stab’s cooldown. Cooldown ~10 at level 1 and ~6 at level 5 Skill W: Form: Return Removes the Human Form and returns Nirvana to his base form. Skill E: Tar Bomb Nirvana throws a skillshot tar bomb that explodes at max range or at first target hit. Damage scales slightly off of AP. The tar bomb explodes, creating an AOE slow (about the size of Singed’s slow). When Tar Bomb is used, all skills in Form: Human go on cooldown for the duration of Tar Bomb’s cooldown. Cooldown ~17 at level 1 and ~13 at level 5 Skill R: Pit Trap Nirvana activates pit traps hidden around him in a small circle (Thresh Box size). Stuns all enemies caught in the pit trap for 1.5 seconds. Damage scales slightly on AD and AP. When Pit Trap is used, all skills in Form: Human go on cooldown for the duration of Pit Trap’s cooldown. Cooldown ~140 at level 1 and ~100 at level 5

E – Form: Animal E will change Nirvana into his Animal form. The Animal form focuses on mobility.

Skills in Form: Animal Passive: Feral Instincts Nirvana gains movement speed out of and during combat, with the out of combat movement greater than the in combat movement. All of the skills in Form: Animal level up when Nirvana levels up Form: Animal Skill Q: Fox Nirvana dashes a short distance (Lucian dash length), empowering his next attack. Cannot go over walls. Damage scales slightly off of AD. When Fox is used, all skills in Form: Animal go on cooldown for the duration of Fox’s cooldown. Cooldown ~16 at level 1 and ~12 at level 5 Skill W: Monkey Nirvana jumps a short distance (Also Lucian dash length). If Nirvana touches a wall, Nirvana stops, attaches to it, and gets to jump again (The second jump can jump over the wall). Furthermore, the cooldown for the skill is halved if he touched a wall in the first jump. When Monkey is used, all skills in Form: Animal go on cooldown for the duration of Monkey (halved if Monkey’s CD is halved) cooldown. Cooldown ~30 at level 1 and ~26 at level 5 Skill E: Form: Return Removes the Animal Form and returns Nirvana to his base form. Skill R: Hawk Nirvana makes a large jump (think Khazix with Wings) and deals AOE damage when landing (scaling slightly off of AD). When Hawk is used, all skills in Form: Animal go on cooldown for the duration of Hawk (halved if Monkey’s CD is halved) cooldown. Cooldown ~100 at level 1 and ~80 at level 5

R – Form: Asura (Unlockable at level 6) R will transform Nirvana into his Asura form. The Asura form focuses on damage.

Skills in Form: Asura Passive: Asura’s Rage Nirvana will lose a percentage of his max health per second, beginning at 1% then increasing by 1% for every second he is in the form (ex. After the first second he loses 2%, then 3%, then so on). His auto attacks in this form deals bonus damage scaling on his own % missing health (Increases with R’s level). All of the skills in Form: Asura level up when Nirvana levels up Form: Asura Skill Q: Mark of Destruction Nirvana marks all enemies in a large radius (Nocturne lvl 1 ult range) for the next 8 seconds. These marks persist through form changes. Whenever Nirvana hits an enemy with a mark, regardless if by auto attack or by skill, the mark will glow blood red, as opposed to its initial gold. At the end of 8 seconds, all enemies with triggered marks take damage, which increases based on the total number of marks triggered. Nirvana also gains bonus armor and magic resist per mark, which stacks as he triggers more marks. These stacks last an additional 7 seconds after the marks trigger, for a total of 15 seconds. When Mark of Destruction is used, all skills in Form: Asura go on cooldown for the duration of Mark of Destruction’s cooldown. Cooldown ~140 seconds at level 1 and ~120 seconds at level 3 Skill W: Momentary Enlightenment Returns Nirvana to his base form. Momentary Enlightenment refreshes all the cooldowns of the next form he switches into. After using Momentary Enlightenment, Form: Asura is disabled for 30 seconds. When Momentary Enlightenment is used, all skills in Form: Asura go on cooldown for the duration of Momentary Enlightenment’s cooldown. Cooldown ~120 seconds at level 1 and ~100 seconds at level 3 Skill E: Asura’s Hurricane Nirvana spins in target direction (think Tryndamere but wider), briefly knocking aside (Draven Stand Aside) enemies on the way. For each enemy struck by Asura’s Hurricane, Nirvana gains a boost to his movement speed and attack speed. When Asura’s Hurricane is used, all skills in Form: Asura go on cooldown for the duration of Asura’s Hurricane’s cooldown. Cooldown ~100 seconds at level 1 and ~80 seconds at level 3 Skill R: Form: Return Removes the Asura Form and returns Nirvana to his base form.

37 Comments

ShatteredSkys10/11/2015, 7:23:48 PM5 votes

Umm just a thought before reading but I don't think that any champion should have 4 different forms with nearly 16 different abilities, that takes overloaded to completely a new level.

I'm not sure if this classifies as a Juggernaut, the idea behind a juggernaut is the an immobile but incredibly tanky champion that forgoes the utility of tanks in favor ton of damage. I'm exactly sure what this champions niche is, what is this champion's identity? What is he supposed to do?

Here's my take on the forms

Demon: Incredibly tanky with the ability to steal resistance, shields, and reflect damage. However I don't think it's very threatening, it lacks cc, damaging abilities, or sticking power so it's incredibly kitable.

Human: The utility form has all your champs cc, most of the cc is at melee range same weaknesses as Demon

Animal: the mobility form, holds your champions escapes and engages

Asura: The GET THE FUCK AWAY form, the juggernaut form that essentially forces your enemies to focus him down.

Ok so my opinion on the overall champion, I think it's an interesting concept and I do like some of your idea like demon chains and Asura mode sounds pretty cool. But the first issue is I don't think you need 4 forms, it's just too much and spreads out your champions power budget too much making it so that each individual ability is very mediocre. You could probably combine human and demon form as well as turn animal form into a dash ability. Right now to me it looks like a kind of Jack of trades tank who has a bit of everything separated into different forms rather than a juggernaut, only the Asura form has a juggernaut feel to it. i also fail to see how this is mechanically difficult, I didn't read your original post but to me it's Demon when you need to tank damage, human when you need to cc and tank damage, Animal when you need to escape or force a fight, and Asura when you need want to rip everyone apart.

There's also a ton of information missing on how this champion plays. What role is it? I'm guessing top? it lacks any means to clear jungle creeps. What is supposed to build? I'm guessing kind of like olaf a mix between AD/HP so stuff like Black cleaver and Titanic Hydra? I think it's a cool idea but i don't think any champion should have 16 different abilities that is simply too much power.

Robertsmash10/11/2015, 6:16:21 PM2 votes

Quick question from just reading the name:

Samsara is the universe as we know it, full of suffering, temptation, and materialism that most souls cycle through, life after life, whereas Nirvana is a place of objective awareness free of suffering, emotion, attachment, temptation, and possibly even the conscious; achieving Nirvana is generally seen as a rising up or transcendence beyond the material.

What is the significance of calling this champion Nirvana, the "Fallen" of Samsara?

Asayake 5150glow10/11/2015, 11:40:25 PM2 votes

Ok, that was certainly long.

First, I felt maybe a name change, (even though those unfamiliar enough with that they don't recognize the name) it might be a little obscure. My suggestion would be taking the literal translation of Nirvana, then translating it to another language, which I did. Chose Italian, for some reason. (would be weird if you played in Italy, however). I got tempra, according to the very inaccurate google translate. It even said itself was wrong!

Second, - huh. I really don't have too much to say... depending on the cast time of your skills, it'd be best to stay in no form until you actually fight. Supposedly, he engages by switching to Animal form, or by throwing a Tar Bomb in human form. Next, he switches to human form and applies a slow/stun. After that, if he just wants to trade, he goes into demon form and hit's them a couple times. If he want's a kill or do heavy damage, he goes into Asura form.

Third, I just got a really weird idea - tell me if it'll work. He will have no mana, due to how much he uses his skills (he does have 12, after all), but after some amount of skills, only then can he change forms. It mean's he'll have to be more dedicated to his form. Right now, you'd want to switch forms as quickly as possible, or else you only get one skill off.

Josheheh10/11/2015, 11:45:46 PM2 votes

try dueling him at level 1 just try

Bob the Toastr10/11/2015, 10:37:52 PM1 votes

I think a funny, but probably ineffective idea would be to make a champion like this, but without the whole kit cooldowns, and make it randomly switch between forms every 15 seconds or so with no player control over which form is switched too. It would force people to adjust their situation to whatever form they were in, which could allow each individual form to be a little stronger to compensate for the randomness. One like this would likewise have a high skill cap but also would require some luck and careful planning.

Brascus10/12/2015, 12:55:01 AM1 votes

How about when he's above 50% health he uses an offensive form, when he's below 50% health he uses a defensive form and the ult is a combination? Or just leave it at 2 forms somehow, 4 is too many imo.

Asayake 5150glow10/12/2015, 1:02:20 AM1 votes

InfiniteBlazer, can you quote each time you post so we know what you're saying to other people? It makes the thread more interesting to read. ;P

DJ Hot N Ready10/12/2015, 9:46:32 PM1 votes

Oh boy I read about half of it. Im in favor of a mechanical tank sure but 3 (4?)(5?) forms? Gotta think of how theyl fit into the meta (even jugs) and how to make them fair to fight against. Idk personally I think it'd be a nightmare to lane against someone with essentially 20 different skills that they can use anytime at their disposal if the person knows what they are doing. Meanwhile those that dont know what they are doing literally could not play the champ what so ever. (cough LeeSin cough)

KarmaWhore10/11/2015, 6:07:03 PM1 votes

Feel free to comment on what could be improved as well! I hope you enjoyed the read.

kwonmonster roar10/13/2015, 12:42:07 AM1 votes

The form changes back should all be q

LemurKick10/11/2015, 6:40:54 PM1 votes

I think it's a great idea, but it'd be crazy hard to balance

ShatteredSkys10/11/2015, 9:26:42 PM1 votes

Wait I kind of just realized something, if Asura's hurricane puts ALL abilities all cd doesn't that mean return is also put on cd so he's stuck in Asura form so he's stuck taking percent health per second. Also about Asura form if he takes 1% for every second and for ever second take an additional 1% he would be dead in 15 seconds.

Skelenth10/11/2015, 10:18:51 PM1 votes

Now, I am not a huge fan of numbers either and the most important questions have been asked already, so I just want to know: how does he look like? I expect a different look on any form and something "Xerath-ish" (without Sarcophagus of course) in the base form, or how did you thought it up?