Cool Idea for a Support Jungler Assassin Hybrid.

Doozku··2 votes·443 views

With the Assassin Rework out, and support junglers such as Ivern or Nunu running rampart in the meta, I was insipred to make a new kit based around a heavy counterjungling theif with weak damage but good vision control, stealth, and decent CC. I don't have a good idea for a name, if you can leave any suggestions that would be helpful!

His lore is that he was an old Shuriman Priest who survived the fall of Shurima. With strong ties to the sun disk, and the immense power radiating off of it as Xerath became ascended, a straw bolt hit the priest. He was blinded, but he also became half-Ascended. He became immoratal, and he could still sense what was nearby with a new power that he gained from the Ascension, alsmot like Daredevil. But he was still just an ordinary human. In order to survive, he had to become a thief, and developed a few tricks of the trade. Despite that, he vowed never to kill another human unless they tried to attack him with malicious intent, but not for self defense.

I have no artistic ability, so I can't draw what he would look like. Instead I will just describe what he would look like. His entire body is covered in rags, with the inability to see his face. However his legs are exposed which reveal wrinkled, ancient skin with a darker brown shade from the sunlight that he endured in the Shuriman Desert. He hides a small dagger in his right wrist, and his clothing is lined with pockets that he fills with gold that he had taken. His belt is also lined with beige bombs which he uses as a flash bomb. His boots would be old and wrinkled. They would look very similar to the boots that are in the shop, although they would be a more beige color.

Now let us get onto his kit. As in his lore, he is a theif but not a killer. His main strength is stealing jungle camps in the early game, and getting away without a trace. His kit gives him strong, yet counterable stealth, a decent clear, and vision control. However his damage and utility are very low. His only crowd control and really his only contribution to a teamfight is with his ultimate.

P: Shrouds of Glass Whenever Thief(just a tentative name) walks into a brush, he becomes camouflaged and gains 40% movespeed. The camouflage remains for 3 seconds after he leaves the brush. Every brush has a four second cooldown before he can be stealthed in it again. He is revealed if he gets within 500 units of an enemy champion. If he comes into combat with an enemy champion, then this abiltiy goes onto cooldown for 60 seconds.

(Notes: Inspired by new Kha'zix Ult, this passive has a heavier emphisis on strategy and pathing, as if you walk through the jungling hopping from brush to brush, you could traverse the entire thing without being revealed. However you have to path around enemy champions as to not be spotted, similar to how a thief would have to path through a bank to avoid guards and remain unseen, so that they can gain their ultimate goal of that sweet, sweet loot.)

Q: Dagger Strike Passive: Thief gains 10% Attack Speed Active: Thief's next attack causes him to jump to a target at a 400 range(like how an Ekko E or Illoai W works), dealing 105/110/115/120/125% of his total AD and slowing the target by 50% for 1 second. This bonus is increased to 135/140/145/150/155% of his total AD versus Minions or Monsters. Instead of slowing monsters, Thief gains 15% lifesteal for 3 seconds, with this applying on the initial blow with his Q.

(Notes: This is Thief's main tool for clearing his own jungle, as the rest of his kit is more utility or for counterjungling. It is also his gapcloser for ganks. The attack speed is meant to help his clear since one of his strongest advantages is his strong clear.)

CD: 9 seconds.

W: Swift Robbery Active: Thief channels for 1 second, and then instantly kills a non-epic minion or monster, bagging the gold and experience for himself. He gains half of the gold and experiece if the unit killed is a monster on the friendly side of the jungle. Buff monsters only lose 70% of their health.

(Notes: This is his counterjungling tool. Combined with his Passive, he can sneak into your jungle and two big monsters, and if he sees you on the other side, he can easily take a third. You need good vision control to be able to catch him out, as he was a weak escape once you tag him, and he is not a very potent fighter.)

Cooldown: 2 Charges. Charges regenerate every 60/55/50/45/40 seconds.

E: Shuriman Rope-Trick Active: Thief targets two walls, and clings a cursed rope in between them. If an enemy steps on the rope, the rope snaps and Thief's team gains vision of its location for 2 seconds. Destroying the trap with a sweeper or a control ward still gives Thief vision, although while the trap is disabled it cannot be triggered. Thief can only have two traps on the map at a time.

CD: 50/47/45/43/40 seconds.

(Notes: Thief's strong map control ability, this guarantees him vision, however it can be disabled. Using a control ward will disable it indefinetly, but he will probably know as a smart Thief will realise that someone has to step on that trap eventually. Therefore it becomes a game of knowing where the traps are and knowing when the best time to destroy them are. These traps cannot be placed in the river on in lanes as minions or the rift scuttler will set them off, rendering them useless.)

R: Flash Bomb Active: Thief throws a flash bomb at a 325 unit location . If the target is hit in the center, they are completely blinded and slowed by 90% for 4/4.5/5 seconds. This is lowered the farther away the target is from the center. If the target is in between the edge and the center, then the slow is 60% and the blind is for 2/2.5/2.75 seconds. If the target is hit on the edge, the blind and slow are only 1 second long. The target also takes 100/150/200 Magic Damage(does not scale)

(Note: The blind effect should look similar to a flash bomb in a game such as CS:GO. The screen would turn completely white, and the buzzing in the ears would take effect. As the duration is about to run out, the white begins to fade and the buzzing gets more quiet.) (Note 2: This is his only teamfight ability as well as the ability that makes him pseudo-assassin. His job in teamfights run into a fight invisibly and ult the adc. The disable would function similarly to how an assassin takes a carry out of the fight instantly, although this is with cc as opposed to killing them.)

CD: 80/60/40 Seconds Range: 500 units.

Thief is designed as an early game counterjungling monster, although his dueling and damage is weak. He provides his team strong vision and objective control, with fast clears, the ability to track down the enemy jungler, and quick dragon kills thanks to his Q. His ultimate is a strong cc and his main ganking tool that he can use to confuse his enemy and set up strong follow ups from his team. His ultimate works similarly to how an assassin is able to take a carry out of the fight, although he usually cannot kill them. His weakness is a weak escape without his ultimate and passive, so like a real thief, if you get caught you are seriously screwed. He also relies heavily on his team to follow up on and use the advantages that he creates, since he absolutely cannot solo-carry games.

Well those are my thoughts. Please leave any criticism and post any ideas on what you think could make this concept better.

5 Comments

DrugsForRobots3 votes

I like that you want to see a thief champ in League, but I don't think this guy is what Riot's looking for. Based on your description he sounds like a mummy, but he's suppose to be a thief. Very weird disconnect.

His passive invisibility is OK, and I like that it allows for real stealth gameplay, but I'm not impressed (because I've got my own thief champ who does invisibility in way that I doubt many have seen before, I'm totally biased BTW).

His Q works but why does it give him lifesteal?

His W is similar to Nunu's Consume. Not much to say about it.

It's cool that you want his E to play with vision, and this is a powerful effect, but I'm not a huge fan. (My own thief does something very similar, there's that bias again.)

His R is an effect I don't think Riot would ever add to the game. I think they could do something very similar though. That said, it's a very powerful effect. I'm reminded of the nearsighted mechanic.

There's certain something here, but it would take a lot of polish and Riot's design sense to make the most of it.

Doozku1 votes

Interesting, thank you for the info. I am assuming that you are talking about shaco when you say your their champion.

The lifesteal is to give him a bit of sustain as a jungle. Maybe not needed?

What if his W just one shot the entire camp, like ivern can.

I want him to have a unique vision mechanic, what would you think?

Also I think that I should have elaborated on his design. His robes would not look like a mummy, and would come in shades of red and blue. He could have a rag tied to his stomach with pockets overflowing with gold or his flash bombs.

Edit: Wait you are talking about one of your designs?

DrugsForRobots1 votes

This is my thief.

To answer your questions:

Some form of sustain is good on junglers, no doubt, but what thematic / narrative reason does he have lifesteal? Is his dagger an evil vampiric soul-sucking one? That's kinda odd for a thief, IMO. I know gameplay comes first, but the best champs have their gameplay match the expectations you get from their art, sound, animations, model, lore, etc.

If his W one-shots the entire camp, he goes from being like Nunu to like Ivern, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. See, I think the issue here is that you want his 'thievery' to revolve around stealing jungle camps, which is OK but that's kinda already Nunu's niche (in the sense that that's pretty much all Nunu is known for - being THE counter-jungler.) With my own thief, her thievery is based around 'treasure' that is in the enemy jungle. She's not their to steal the camp, that's just a bonus.

I think there is a lot of room for vision abilities, but finding one that feels appropriate thematically for your character is just part of the design process. Having the 'trip cord' acting like a trap that grants vision is fine given his being a desert tomb-raider style thief. My own thief creates a Keyhole (she channels her sight into a narrow beam in a far-reaching line) that sticks around after the fact letting her right-click to look through it. I think it works for her because it ties into her theme - she's a thief with a giant key as her weapon.

The thief champ is something I really want to see in League and there are tons of different ways to interpret the character. I think the challenge is making him/her NOT feel like an assassin (thieves steal, assassins kill). I also think that any movement option the thief has should allow for expression and adaptibility. Consider the difference between your Q's 'blink to the target your attacking' and my E's 'short dash + MS buff in the target direction.' Yours might be more powerful, but it's also far more limiting.

I'd also like to say that I like how your thief has 'camouflage' (which is really invisibility based on proximity), but I'd also like to see something that acts as a little clue or tell-tale sign that his enemies could pick up on (so he can't just surprise murder them.)

Doozku1 votes

Well why can't he feel like an assassin? Thieves in general are similar to assassins, in that they have to sneak around to meet their goal. The difference is that the final destination for an assassin is a target, while the final destination for a thief is a treasure, a safe full of gold, you get the idea. Whatever stands in the way is an obstacle to be overcome. A guard, a camera system, a ward, the midlaner near his tower, the enemy jungler. There are different ways for a thief to overcome these, and silently killing is one of them. A thief that deals sustain damage is really pretty weird.

Now I've read your concept, and I don't want this to turn into us arguing about whether or not yours or mine is better, but I just quickly want to talk about the idea of having the thief collecting treasure, as opposed to just taking camps. The problem with having a "treasure resource" is that it turns into another skarner passive, or in other words a minigame that you have to keep track of. Mini games in league are iffy. When people play league, they want to play league, not capture the skarner pole. Minigames like fiora's passive work well because they are more micro based, you change how you fight her in an upfront confrontation, but you don't change how you play league of legends. Skarner passive is an entire new objective that you have to keep track of, and it only spawns when you play versus this specific champion. It changes the way you play league, which really isn't something you want, and it led to the skarner rework being considered a failure.

The same problem comes in here with "treasure." The jungler has to play around this treasure chest on a macro level, changing the way he would experience league. Having it be something that the jungler is already used to playing around, that being jungle camps, makes it feel less gimmicky, and also more personal for the jungler. You really have a reason to want to defend these things, a reward of sorts, as opposed to a treasure chest that you can't interact with, but the enemy can. It makes it feel like less of a hassle of having to juggle these sorts of things, and more of something that you want to do and something you already do, but now you have to put more attention to it.

Now as for the Nunu argument, there are some pretty big problems with that champion as a whole. For one thing, there are champions that do his job, but better. Champions like Lee Sin, Shaco, or Nidalee can counterjungle almost as effectivly as Nunu can, as well as bring more kill potential to the table. This is because they are way more elusive than Nunu. Nunu is a massive yeti tank that just kind walks into your jungle when you aren't looking, and takes half of it, and leaves. Shaco is an elusive assassin that sneaks in with his invisiblity, gets deep wards set up, takes a camp or two, and then leaves and waits for you to show yourself so that he can kill you. If you catch a Nunu in the act, he is probably dead unless he can get support from his mid laner. If you catch a Shaco, he just blinks away and you lose him. There also isn't much thematic reasons for Nunu to be a counterjungler. What about a kid riding a massive yeti has to do with sneaking into someone else's space and taking things from them. Thematically, Nunu would be the kind of champion that would probably just brute force the enemy jungler, a far cry from what happens in game.

With all that being said, I am going to list out all of my characters abilities, and I think I should change, and what I believe the ability should be like.

P: It is meant to feel like a thief sneaking in between cover and hiding spots to get to his final destination. In that regard I think it can be improved. The ability is also meant to have cool evelyn like moments where you see the enemy jungler but he does not see you, and you very slowly inch around with him being almost on top of the reveal zone, but not quite in it, and you manage to get past him. I agree with this ability needing a more obvious counterplay measure, and I feel like it should pertain to vision and warding. New: When Thief enters a bush, the stealth is completely removed, but the ability does not go on cooldown (In order to counter him, players would have to ward bushes that they believe are areas that thief likes to come in from, as well as bushes that he goes into alot to ) New: Instead of going on cooldown when Thief enters combat, the ability goes on cooldown if thief is nearby an enemy champion(in range of him being revealed). (Trying to limit Thief's escape chance if he gets caught. For a champion that can be so sneaky, I don't think he deserves to be able to escape very easily.) Q: You talk about how my Q is much more powerful, but feels more limiting. That was the idea I was going for with the Q. It would be coded similarly to an Illoai W, acting as an auto reset and a gapcloser. The idea is that while you are clearing, it feels like an auto reset, since auto resets are more fun to use while clearing than just clicking on an enemy. However as an early game focused jungler, I feel like he needed more tools to be able to gank semi-decently. (his ganks don't become strong until he hits lvl 6.) Let's make this clear, I don't want him to be able to burst someone down with the Q. When I initially designed him, I wanted him to build supporty/assassin itemsitem 1408, but looking back on it, that seems pretty unhealthy. Especially if he just built crit/Armor pen like shaco and just oneshot people from stealth. I feel like even if it is thematically pretty weird, it would be better for him to become tankier later on. Kind of like Lee Sin almost. Here are the changes that I feel are necessary Removed: No longer gives lifesteal(Hunters gives lifesteal, so we don't need this) or attack speed. New: Only does 50/60%(whichever is necessary) of max AD to champions. Also has a small 0.3 AP Scaling to help with support itemization Gains 15% attack speed for 3 seconds after he hits an enemy with this ability (make the attack speed feel less passive, and more interactive) W: I feel as though this ability should feel more like you oneshotting the camps. Perhaps there could be some clarification as to how your camp was stolen. New???: Leaves a mark on the stolen camp(I am debating whether or not this is a good idea. It sounds BM but I feel as though my assassin is a more noble, less dickish thief. This ability feels more in place on a champion like shaco. However leaving a scratch mark or a burn mark of some kind would be interesting for counterplay reasons, although not necessary) E: We both agree this ability is interesting, leaving this unchanged R: Now that I want him to be more tanky, I feel like this could use some changes. 4 Seconds and a 90% slow is too much, but making it any lower would feel underwhelming. I originally wanted this ability to feel interesting to use while counterjungling (you flash the jungler and then you leave, as the jungler's vision returns you are no where to be seen) I feel as though there could still be a way to make that kind of gameplay work. Removed: No longer decreases depending on how close to the middle. New: Radius has been decreased, only flashes for 1 second and slows by 60% for one second. Now on a charge system

Lvl 1: 1 charge, 40 second recharge lvl 2: 2 charges, 30 second recharge lvl 3: 3 charges, 20 second recharge rate Can only throw a bomb once every 7/5(debatable) seconds (Feels better to level this ability and is much easier to balance. Now more dynamic and gives you more to do in teamfights as opposed to just throwing a bomb on the carry and then just dying or doing nothing. Also fits better on the tankier playstyle that I want to introduce. Early games your bombs are scarce, use them carefully for ganks or escapes. Late game the bombs are more common, and you can use them as a general cc. You have 3 to use and more coming up on cd, so you can spam these much more than before, just be wary of mana costs!) New: Now has a small 0.3 AP Scaling for AP Itemization

I also forgot to add mana costs, so there they are Q: 60/55/50/45/40 Mana (40 mana refunded if used on monsters) W: 100/90/80/70/60 Mana E: 50 Mana to set a trap R: 100/125/150 Mana

Builds: Generally you want to get utility items that give you cdr(more bombs and dashes) hp (for survivablity in teamfights), and utiltiy(You need to be able to support). Ad can also be useful if you want to be able to deal some damage, but it is equivalent to building AP on Ivern. Useful, but not too useful. Only build a little damage to help the early game. AP items can also be viable, however the scalings on his abilities are small, as they are only there to help with items like item 3050 or other support items that grant AP Items: item 1408 (your only damage and also to help with vision control, a very important part of playing this champion)/item 1409 (more useful late game, but not as useful early game) after that you can build tanky support items. item 3109, item 3190 item 3222 etc are all useful to have as well as standard tank items. Going for items such as item 3050 or item 3092 can be viable as well, although not as useful.

FloRaider421 votes

Well why can't he feel like an assassin?

That is actually one of the biggest problems I have with thief champion concepts, because personally I believe that a Thief doesn't need / nor want to kill someone (higher punishment, more notoriety and potentially lost loot [dead people you can loot once, the living will return with gold in their pocket]), which I have to admit would make for a rather weird champion. I think what plays a big part in those terms becoming synonyms is that a lot of stealth games blend them into one (thief would be non-lethal playthrough and assassin lethal playthrough).

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