Quinn and Valor: My Thoughts About Their Past & Present Kit, and an Idea For a "Better" One

Way TL;DR: This is a Quinn Rework suggestion.

Quinn & Valor have been a champion I've really enjoyed playing. I've mained Quinn for probably almost 2 seasons.

I picked them up before the rework, back when the Q applied blind, the passive timer worked differently, and the ult was named "Tag Team" because Valor actually took Quinn's place. I loved playing the lane bully, and I loved how easy it was to transition a lane advantage into a map advantage because of their mobility.

And yet, after Quinn & Valor were reworked (and patched, buffed, and nerfed) into their current iteration, I found I didn't enjoy playing Quinn & Valor as much, even when they were the meta picks and were supposed to be doing very well. My W/L didn't suffer at all (actually I probably lost a few more than usual since people actually knew what Quinn did), and the playstyle was still very much the same: bully around the opposing laner, get a lane advantage, then start invading and roaming and ruining the day of their jungler and other laners. Despite all this, I found Quinn & Valor's gameplay to be a little... lackluster?

Taking a step back from Quinn & Valor in particular, each champion in LoL has characteristic traits that is portrayed through the feel of their kit. And, in my opinion, it is how the character feels as it relates to their lore and their backstory, not their role on the team or the niche that they fill, that makes a champion unique, immersive, and ultimately, fun to play.

Consider both Katarina, Talon, and Akali. They are assassins whose goal is to snowball the early game through roams (or against disrespectful laners). Their job is to blow up a specific target whilst also inflicting some serious AOE damage. Considering their role on the team and what job they're supposed to do, Katarina, Talon, and Akali basically do the same thing. Many of them share similar abilities (Kat & Akali Q, Kat E & Akali R, Talon & Kat W.....), yet they certainly feel like different champions, and they feel unique to each other, and this is because they stand by different values: Akali believes in balance and trust. "Honor is the blade's edge", right? Talon says "Only fools pledge life to honor." The difference in their belief is shown in their kit, and they feel different.

So back to Quinn & Valor. They're a team. They believe in friendship, trust and teamwork. When they go on scouting runs, they work together, cover each other. Move swiftly; kill swiftly.

The reason I liked old Quinn better than the current version comes down to the feel that Valor was a greater part of the team: it was very obvious that Valor was participating since you play as Valor using the ultimate. Yes, in the current iteration, Valor is marking targets for Harrier. Yes, the projectile for Blinding Assault is Valor. And while I know that Valor is contributing, it doesn't really feel like he's contributing.

My goal in presenting what's below is to portray a Quinn & Valor that builds on the cornerstone of teamwork, both in and out of combat. This is something that I feel was lacking in both iterations of Quinn & Valor. In the original, it was clear they both fought, but the feel that they were working together, fighting together, was somewhat amiss. Similarly, in the current iteration of Quinn & Valor, Valor feels like he's been relegated to carrier duty and to utility (my opinion, of course).

And so we're off and away...

In order to understand how the pieces fit in, I'm going to introduce what I want their ultimate to be.

[R] ( Free @ level 1, available at level 6, 11, 16) Tag Team Cooldown: 5/4/3/2 Mana Cost: 0/0/0/0 (While Quinn) Valor descends to ground level, taking the place of Quinn, who then shadows him from the side.

(While Valor) Quinn leaps back into action, taking the place of Valor, who then takes to the skies.

-------x------- In essence, this is a sort of form swap, similar to Nidalee's and Jayce's R. However, there are key differences. Nidalee and Jayce's shifts give them different movesets whilst maintaining a similar feel. However, Tag Team will not give them different movesets, yet will great a very different feel. Additionally, Quinn and Valor are tracked as different champions. They are not the same being, and thus, will share different health pools and different mana pools. Note that while Quinn is supporting Valor (or vice versa), she is untargetable, but not invulnerable. Effects such as Zed's Death Mark would still apply and finish its effect on whoever it was applied to. Quinn and Valor can, however, switch places to minimize the impacts of various effects. If Quinn is slowed and it's going to get her caught, Valor can take over and get out. However, if Quinn is stunned, she's not able to get out of the way, and so Tag Team can't be used. If Fizz lands the fish on Valor, Quinn can take over. Valor will take the damage from Fizz's ultimate, but Quinn will not receive bonus damage from Fizz's other abilities since the fish landed on Valor. -------x-------

[Base Stats] Quinn: HP : 320 - 1187 HP Regen: 3.25 - 8.88 Mana: 162 - 518 Mana Regen: 5.58 - 11.73 Attack Damage: 53.6 - 93.4 Attack Range: 525 Attack Speed: 0.668 (+ 0 - 52.8%) Armor: 24.8 - 84 Magic Resist: 30 Movement Speed: 325

Valor: HP: 333 - 1220 HP Regen: 3.40 - 8.91 Mana: 152 - 480 Mana Regen: 5.38 - 11.64 Attack Damage: 51.8 - 92.3 Attack Range 175 Attack Speed: 0.711 ( + 0 - 53.3%) Armor: 23.1 - 78.3 Magic Resist: 30 Movement Speed: 370

-------x------- Quinn and Valor have around 60% the HP of the average champion. Combined, they have slightly more (120%, I can math!), but on their own, they have a very small HP pool. Similarly for their mana pool. A summoner must be careful to spread the damage between Quinn and Valor, as they rely heavily on each other in combat, and are unable to fight effectively without one another. In other words, that means if EITHER Quinn OR Valor have HP = 0, you get a lovely grey screen! Additionally, the small mana pools means that a summoner has to have Quinn and Valor work together in order to have any performance near optimal, as spamming abilities with only one of the two will quickly render them out of mana. Some of you might think that Valor is pretty slow at 370, especially compared to the current Behind Enemy Lines, but their abilities will change that, don't worry too much!

Additionally, unlike the original Quinn & Valor, they will not share basic ability cooldowns. -------x-------

[Passive] Open Flanks Quinn and Valor focus on the same target, making it more difficult for targets to defend themselves. (As Quinn) When an enemy is hit by an attack or ability, they receive a stack of "Flanked!", increasing the damage dealt by the next instance of damage from Valor by (8-50, scaling with level), stacking up to 3 times. (As Valor) When an enemy is hit by an attack or ability, they receive a stack of "Flanked!", increasing the damage dealt by the next instance of damage from Quinn by (8-50, scaling with level), stacking up to 3 times.

[Q] Blinding Assault (As Quinn) Cooldown: 16/13/10/7/4 Mana Cost: 40/50/60/70/80 Range: 950 First Strike Radius: 75 First Strike Vision Reduction: 900 Second Strike Radius: 175 Second Strike Vision Reduction: 500 Time Between Cast and Damage Frame: 0.45 Damage: 20/40/60/80/100 (+ 70/80/90/100/110% AD)(+ 50% AP) Physical Damage

Valor descends upon a location, striking a small area, heavily obscuring their vision. He then flies a tight circle, striking at a larger area, dealing 50% of the damage and lightly limiting their vision. Blinding Assault triggers stacks of "Flanked!" left by Quinn.

Interaction with Tag Team: If Tag Team is activated whilst Valor is mid-descent, after Blinding Assault is complete, Quinn will support Valor, and Valor will take over the fight. Blinding Assault for Valor will be set to a 1.5 second cooldown (if originally < 1.5).

(As Valor) Cooldown: 16/13/10/7/4 Mana Cost: 35/45/55/65/75 Dash Range: 700 First Strike Radius: 75 First Strike Reduces Vision By: 900 Second Strike Radius: 175 Second Strike Reduces Vision By: 325 Damage: 25/45/65/85/105 (+ 75/85/95/105/115% AD)(+ 50% AP) Physical Damage

Valor rushes forward, performing the same attack upon either reaching maximum range or upon hitting an enemy. Blinding Assault triggers stacks of "Flanked!" left by Quinn.

Interaction with Tag Team: If Tag Team is activated whilst Valor is mid-flight, he will pick up Quinn along the way. If Valor flies into a target, he will immediately throw Quinn against it, briefly knock it back, slowing the target by 50%, decaying over 1 second. Quinn will then leap back 225 units range, gaining 30% movement speed and attack speed for 2 seconds. Valor will perform Blinding Assault, then return to the skies If Valor does not fly into a target, he will perform Blinding Assault, then return to the skies, dropping off Quinn. Quinn will perform Skystrike, triggering stacks of "Flanked!" left by Valor while inflicting 75% AD of physical damage to all nearby units. After the completion of either case, Blinding Assault for Quinn will be put on a 1.5 second cooldown (if originally < 1.5)

[W] Heightened Senses Quinn and Valor combine their different perspectives of the battlefield, providing them with a better view. Cooldown: N/A (Passive Ability) Mana Cost: N/A (Passive Ability) Out of Combat Vision Increased By: 60/120/180/240/300 Champions Within 2100 Range Marked After: 12/10/8/6/4

While out of combat, Quinn and Valor are free to focus on the environment rather than their target, increasing their vision range.

Additionally, enemy champions that have been close to Quinn and Valor for an extended period of time are marked by a symbol (does not appear on the minimap or mark stealthed champions). The symbol disappears after they have been away from Quinn and Valor for 1 second.

-------x------- Quinn and Valor's W emphasizes their role as a scout, using their advantage of lines of sight and speed instead of stealth to do their job. This would allow a carefully positioned Quinn or Valor to observe an opposing force without being seen themselves... assuming they're not on top of a ward. Enemy champions will get marked by W if they're near Quinn and Valor, even if they're not in sight (but not stealthed champions). If the summoner is constantly panning around the environment, they'd notice nearby champions who dally too long around the area. However, Quinn and Valor are not able to identify which champion is there, only that there is one. -------x-------

[E] Vault (As Quinn) Cooldown: 16/14/12/10/8 Mana Cost: 50/55/60/65/70 Range: 675 Damage: 40/55/70/85/100 (+ 20% Bonus AD)

Quinn leaps to a target, briefly knocks it back, slowing the target by 50%, decaying over 1 second. Quinn will then leap back to her maximum attack range, gaining 30% movement speed and attack speed for 2 seconds

(As Valor) Cooldown: 3/2.5/2/1.5/1 Mana Cost: 30/25/20/15/10 Range: 375 Width: 175 Start Up Lag: 0.1s Dash Time: 0.25s Damage: 20/35/50/65/80 (+ 70% AD) (+ 20% AP)

Valor quickly surges forward, raking any enemies he passes through. He then gains a stack of "Fatigue" which lasts for 6 seconds, doubling Vault's current mana cost. Fatigue stacks fall off all at once, and stack infinitely.

-------x------- Quinn's E is basically untouched, except for the numbers. Since I removed Harrier, I gave Vault Quinn's old W passive. Valor's E is a skillshot dash, kind of like Lucian's, except shorter and it does damage as a pass through skill shot. Careful management of fatigue in the late game enables Valor to combine Vault and Blinding Assault for quick transitions across the map. In the early game, however, the mana cost is quite high relative to both Quinn and Valor's tiny mana pool, and so use of Vault and Blinding Assault is primarily for chasing and sticking to targets, as well as making enemy skillshot based champions have a hard time.

[Gameplay] Quinn and Valor would be most comfortable in the top lane, although they would still do well in the middle lane. Since they're so squishy it would be difficult to jungle, although careful juggling of damage between Quinn and Valor, as well as kiting the camps, would make jungling with Quinn and Valor viable. Since Quinn and Valor rely so much on each other to be effective, they would be hard pressed to match up against the marksmen in the bottom lane. With twice as many champions hitting them, and often with a plethora of CC coming from the support, Valor would have a hard time following up Quinn's damage, aside from spamming Blinding Assault (with its long early game cooldown) to trigger Open Flanks, which would rapidly chunk through Quinn's mana pool. Quinn and Valor would still be viable bottom as a counter-pick against bottom lanes with poorly laning ADCs paired with a low-CC support. Quinn and Valor support? Definitely implausible.

Quinn and Valor's attack pattern is fairly flexible, with choices of starting an attack from range with Quinn or up close with Valor. However, the key is that both Quinn and Valor will need to contribute to one target in order to take him down. This means that most champions have a window of opportunity in which they are favored. Even if Darius is unable to deal with Quinn's ranged harass and kiting ability, he can capitalize and have a chance to fight back when Valor comes in for the flank. How Quinn and Valor set up for their attack is very important in almost all of their matchups as it will determine how much of an opportunity they provide to their opponent to punish their movement.

Lone targets would be the ideal for the fights, as it would basically be a 2v1 (or it should feel like one!). Quinn and Valor definitely still falls into the "lane bully" category. In the early game, when people are more spread out across the map, Quinn and Valor have a better capacity to single out and take down lone targets. Once the mid game comes around, it becomes riskier and riskier for Valor to jump into fights as the number of people in fights begins to increase.

If ahead, Quinn and Valor would prefer to spread out the map and begin split pushes. By manipulation of the minion waves, they would be able to have a lane pushing and then set up in dark jungle to catch out lone opponents as they rotate to meet the pressure.

Quinn and Valor would excel against most champions that do not have that much damage, as those champions would not be able to capitalize on their tiny health pool. However, many low-damage champions are also high in CC, and would be able to drastically limit Quinn and Valor's ability to rotate positions in a fight, which means that, if a jungler were to gank, Quinn and Valor would not be able to juggle the damage between themselves. Nevertheless, if well played, they will be able to choose how to engage on the opponent, would be able to decide the terms of the engagement, and would be able to heavily punish the opposition for pushing out from the tower. They would also do well against champions that are very skill shot reliant, as those champions would struggle to regularly hit Quinn and Valor.

Quinn and Valor would struggle against control mages that have spatial control near them, as well as champions with rapid burst who can blow up either Quinn or Valor before they can swap.

Quinn and Valor should do well against champions such as , who would struggle to zone, , who wouldn't be able to stick and prolong the fight, or , who wouldn't have enough sustained damage to put pressure on Quinn and Valor early.

Quinn and Valor would suffer against champions such as , who could Q/E/R Valor as he comes in and blow him up instantly, , who'd just ult, and , who burst extremely rapidly.

Thank you for reading (or not?) my ideas for Quinn and Valor. If you have any suggestions, questions, or need for clarification, please comment and give your thoughts and I'll be sure to get to them.

P.S. Apologies for being so thorough, but I went off on a wild tangent. Woops. .-.