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Idea: How to (Hypothetically) Balance Zoe

gilreMAXX·3/3/2020, 8:56:11 PM·1 votes·2,322 views

So, I've noticed that many people complain about Zoe Zoe. She does too much damage, no counterplay, etc, etc, etc. I personally don't have to lane against her often (I'm a tank support player, so I don't usually get oneshot; when I have to go mid, I lock in Malz, borderline afk farm, and help my team with ult), but I've thought of some changes that could be made to Zoe to make her less "OP", "broken", and just plain "too much".

First up, Zoe's Q Instead of her Q dealing more damage the farther range it goes, maybe have the damage increase by a certain percent WHEN SHE REDIRECTS THE STAR. So (making up numbers here) let's say she hits you with a point blank Q, without redirecting the star. It does 100 magic damage. But when she launches Q and redirects it before hitting you, it deals 20/30/40/50/60% (based on rank in Q) more damage REGARDLESS OF RANGE. So, at minimum rank for this example, the redirected Q would do 120 magic damage, and at max rank 160 magic damage (again, made up numbers just for the example's sake).

Personally, I'm not sure if her Q is the main problem, but if it worked like this (with some number changes in between maybe) it would maybe be a bit less ridiculous. The main thing that DEFINITELY would need to be addressed is her W.

Zoe's W To begin, make her W cooldown as long as a Summoner Spell. Maybe 210 second cooldown or 180 seconds, or maybe even 300 seconds. This next part is harsh, I know, but maybe make her W cooldown unable to be reduced. PERIOD. No matter what runes, or items, or buffs from whatever epic monster, make her W cooldown unable to be reduced.

Another thing that I believe is less harsh for Zoe: make it so that Zoe cannot collect spell shards for summoner spells that she currently has or has used in the past 15 seconds. So, if you summoner 4 Flash in lane against Zoe, but she already has her summoner 4 Flash up, she cannot collect the Flash spell shard. So, NO MORE DOUBLE summoner 4 FLASHES, summoner 14 IGNITES, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. This is mainly to get rid of Zoe's classic "oneshot you from a screen away, teeheehee" strategy. I don't play mid often, but I think that an ARTILLERY BURST MAGE, that you would NORMALLY have to play safer on, and work on positioning, being able to FLASH AROUND THE FIELD 5 TIMES is a bit too much. It's time that Zoe stop being Zoe and start being a less mobile ranged mage, like the rest.

Anyway, these are my thoughts on how Zoe could be (possibly) balanced. Maybe change her Q a bit and TAKE AWAY HER RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF MOBILITY that other ranged mages simply do not have. Am I wrong about this? Probably. I don't play squishy mages often, I don't play assassins, I don't go mid unless I absolutely HAVE to. But the way I see it, Zoe is an artillery burst mage, so like other artillery mages, like Velkoz Vel'Koz and Xerath Xerath, or other burst mages, like Syndra Syndra and Veigar Veigar, she absolutely CANNOT be that mobile.

To anyone who took the time to read this, thank you. More insight is welcome, since I'm not a mid lane player.

9 Comments

Everyday Legends3/4/2020, 12:13:11 AM3 votes

Here's the reason Zoe's Paddle Star does a lot of damage when it travels a long distance: hitting spells from far away is difficult, so you are being rewarded for successfully doing it.

Now allow me to educate you on Spell Thief:

Spell Shards are not free. Zoe earns each and every Spell Shard she collects.

She can collect Spell Shards one of two ways: first, by waiting the arrival for a minion with a balloon (less than one per wave), successful delivering the last hit on said minion, then going over to collect the Shard; or second, by one dropping from someone on the enemy team, and then going over to collect the Shard. The Spell Shard is right there on the ground for everyone to see. Going over to it sets Zoe up for the enemy team's crowd-control, area-denial, skill-shots, point-and-click abilities, and even their basic attacks. It's basically a beacon that says "Zoe will try to collect this. Punish her for it!"

Please take note of that second way of collecting Shards. Enemies drop them by casting Summoner Spells or triggering item-actives. That means that by simply not using those while Zoe is around, the enemy team can deny Zoe a lot of her potential power. I doubt there is another Champion in the game whose power is so closely linked to the actions of the enemy team. And here's something to consider: Summoner Spells and item-actives are just about the only actions that are truly only in the player's control. There are abilities that force you to move, force you to attack, force you to keep still, but no one can force you to use those. If Zoe collected a Spell Shard from you, it means not only did you trigger your ability while she was near enough to get it, you also did it in a place that was safe for her to collect it, and no one on your team stopped her from collecting it.

So what does Zoe get for her efforts? One cast of Spell Thief. Think about that for a moment. Bard collects randomly spawning Chimes (that he doesn't need make spawn, nor can they be withheld by the enemy), and when he does, he gains experience and empowers his Meeps. Collecting his randomly spawning collectible makes him scale. And don't get me started on Thresh. Randomly spawning souls grant him Ability Power, Armor, Shield strength, and damage on his Flay ability. This is on top of fact that these will spawn simply from things dying near Thresh (while Zoe needs to last-hit her minions), cannot be seen by enemies unless they have vision of Thresh, and most amusing of all, they can be collected by his Lantern. Zoe's collectible, which must be earned by her directly and can be withheld by enemies, grants her one cast of an ability, while Champions who have an easier time gathering their collectibles get to scale.

And by the way, they get to do this... without sacrificing an ability slot! Spell Thief already has a greater price than most Champions can imagine: having a "W" ability. Let's consider Irelia, or Tahm Kench, or Yasuo: all Champions with very powerful "W" abilities. Imagine if suddenly these Champions were told that, in order to cast your "W", you will first have to earn the right to cast it by collecting a drop, then you have to use it within the next minute or it'll go to waste, you're not allowed to stack multiple of them, which means you'll have to go through this each and every time you want to use this ability, and in the meantime, this slot is effectively empty. They would go into shock. But that's Zoe's reality.

Please note: there is no internal cooldown on Summoner Spells and item-actives for ANYONE. I can Flash onto the enemy, hit them my Proto-Belt, cast Ignite on them, and trigger my Zhonya's to protect myself all in less than two seconds because, once again, there is no internal cooldown on Summoner Spells and item-actives for ANYONE. Zoe would literally become the only Champion in the game who gets one. (Summoner Spells and item-actives also don't cost anyone else Mana. Just throwing that out there.) Once more, this is on top of the fact she must earn it, successfully collect it, and gain the opportunity to use it, each and every time. What other Champion would be forced to be surrounded by a key part of their kit and told you can only utilize one piece of it? Zyra, surrounded by her Seeds, some spawned randomly, some intentionally, but if she grows one into a plant, she's not allowed to utilize the others until a horrendous cooldown completes. Illaoi, with tentacles all around her, some random, some she created, but only one gets to fight with her until a cooldown finishes. No, that's not how this works. Remember how I mentioned that balloon-carrying Minions spawn less than one per wave? If there are multiple Spell Shards in one area, it's because the enemy team was irresponsible about their Summoner Spells and item-actives. Now you're proposing that Zoe cannot capitalize on the resources all around her due to some sort of cooldown only she has to put up with, on top of all of the other obstacles she already contends with for Spell Thief.

The point of Zoe's Spell Thief isn't to break some sort of perceived "rule". It's to make people play differently.

Before Zoe, there was never not a reason to use your Summoner Spells (and item-actives) besides not having it until the cooldown finishes. Now there is. If you use your Spell Shards and item-actives haphazardly and irresponsibly, there is someone who can punish you for that. You now have to mindful of your decisions and actions, and you need to be prepared for the consequences of them. Use your Summoner Spells and item-actives when Zoe is dead or somewhere else on the map.

Dabrick013/3/2020, 9:25:17 PM2 votes

What a post. Love what you did with the E. I love how you just assume that the only thing Zoe gets are flashes and then balance the ability around the flashes. It's meant to be a situational, high impact ability, not another summoner spell whose slot can be taken by a GLP or something. Yeah, having an extra flash is powerful, but that doesn't happen often.

Then there's the Q. Max damage means max distance and huge time to react if you don't get hit by the bubble. The Q incentivizes clever use of her ulti and E to land max damage. With the change you describe, the play would be to jump to them, fire your Q, and then instantly redirect it. Max damage, no cleverness, and no real penalty.

I really don't think these are the changes that Zoe needs, nor are these changes that make any sense. They are just poorly justified ways of nerfing her to the ground so you don't have to play against her anymore. This is why the boards is getting deleted.