These boards have way too much censorship.

Sydelle·11/23/2014, 8:27:53 AM·64 votes·6,228 views

I pointed out that Kalista's lore has a suicide leading into a reward (power to take vengeance) and, not only was it deleted, but I got sent a message about not promoting suicide. In fact, I was doing the opposite. The censorship in these boards is completely out of control. [Story & Art: all those S&A moderators want is someone to stroke their ego or GTFO].

I took issue with the way Riot Ant in Oz describes Kalista as "noble" because she gives desperate people the chance to take vengeance (at the cost of their life & soul) against people that have committed an act of betrayal. I said that it's not fair NOR right to describe to a teenage mass that such an entity (Kalista) is "noble."

Riot Ant in Oz honestly does not believe he has described a suicide. He firmly believes he has described a noble sacrifice, and preached that Kalista "was not malicious" in Kalista's Q&A. This stubborn refusal to admit that his creation is evil or the description of suicide as a "noble sacrifice" does not fit the audience towards which the story is being directed: underdeveloped adults. In this, the writer has failed to take an honest stock of his audience and violated professional writers' first question: WHO IS MY AUDIENCE?

In creating a "noble" demon that collects suicidal "sacrifices" on the wake of Riot Damiya's suicide -- something that I'm still trying to come to terms with - this writer has not only demonstrated extreme thoughtlessness but also lack of moral character. This is just my opinion. This country was founded on the premise that everyone has a right to express their opinion. Anyone here has a right to express to me why they think I'm wrong, but in attempting to censor criticism, Riot is isolating itself from its customer base. This amounts to wanting your customer base to be stupid, non-sentient consumers that stroke your egos and who never challenge you............ all while waiting to receive a paycheck derived from that costumer base.

It is right to express disgust with a human being's choice to romanticize suicide in Kalista's lore. It is right to mention the insensitive TIMING of the release of this lore. Just because a team of people gave this champion the green light, doesn't mean that you haven't all done collectively wrong. There is no safety in numbers where right or wrong is concerned. If we send 200k soldiers to invade a far away country on the premise it contains WMDs but we are wrong about that, believe me RIOT, you can and you will make collective mistakes too.

You have no right to mask suicide as a "noble sacrifice" in a teen game nor to prevent me from stating the obvious: the fact that you had collective gap of insight and wisdom.

In accusing Riot Ant in Oz of being thoughtless, I have given reasons for the accusation. Teens are riddled with angst and these days not a single one of them goes through high school without someone in their class attempting suicide. I gave the example of the most recent high school shooting because it was relevant: the teen used suicide to exact vengeance (on his gf cheating). I brought that example up to elucidate how the LORE and its AUDIENCE do not harmonize in a constructive way. I stated these things to help you as a company. When you are blind to something you have failed to see as a collective, it doesn't mean you are right. Hell, the majority in this world are usually wrong. Isn't it harder to become a genius than to drop out of college? Aren't you the ones who designed an LP system that states: "the majority really can't play our game well"? Then why do you think that because you have made a decision on this matter as a collective, then you are right?

Do you think I enjoy being here wringing your ear about the fact you did wrong? Fuck no. I hate it. Are you incapable of identifying what genuine sacrifice looks like? This is what sacrifice looks like. I'm not enjoying being here typing this to you for the fifth time and you doing what you think is going fix it: deleting me and kicking me to the curb, banning me like a dog instead of a friend who is telling you that you shouldn't go down a bad path.

I feel a moral obligation to let you know that you have done wrong with this lore. Someone in that Kalista team had misgivings about the story for the right reasons. That's just what I intuit happened because there's inconsistencies in the story like Kalista saying "my husband wouldn't want me to do this" (as she was committing suicide) but then she does it anyway and Ant comes here to say that "it's a sacrifice for her family."

If you are living in a country that believes in the right of free expression then you shouldn't be despots that delete and ban every critic that is genuinely trying to help you out by giving you some heartfelt feedback.

God Bless.

96 Comments

Narasimha11/23/2014, 4:59:32 PM15 votes

Do note that suicide is often defined by one's attempt to kill oneself from DESPAIR. Although it can be said the sword-woman was sad, it can easily be identified that her actions were motivated primarily by revenge and hatred. This is a key difference. Kalista isn't just saying "Kill yourself." She is asking "Are you prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice?" I mean, you're asking a centuries old Avatar of Vengeance for aid, its not going to accept anything less than full commitment.

Hinro Honato11/23/2014, 5:15:25 PM11 votes

So murder is fine but suicide is taboo? I'm sorry but this is simply confusing. Murdering someone is a far worse thing to do. You are forcibly stealing the life from someone who does not want that to happen. Suicide on the other hand is nothing like that, It is some one personally making a choice. You don't need to like it or agree with that persons choice, it's not up to you. The freedom to live also includes the freedom to die. To force someone to live when they have no desire to is simply evil. Again your feelings on the matter have no baring on this issue.

Now onto the hypocrisy. You feel wronged because you feel that you were censored? Well the problem is, you're trying to censor others. This is just plain hypocrisy. You don't like the lore because you feel it is morally wrong to kill your self so the lore must be changed. This is you trying to censor others.

Would you call a suicide that saves other people from being murdered and tortured noble?

Daen11/23/2014, 9:49:17 AM8 votes

I pointed out that Kalista's lore has a suicide leading into a reward (power to take vengeance) and, not only was it deleted, but I got sent a message about not promoting suicide.

What was the tone of your comment? Do you have an archive we might be able to view?

As for the moderation, it definitely still has some kinks. I can't speak to your particular situation, but this isn't super common nor is it super uncommon.

This country was founded on the premise that everyone has a right to express their opinion.

Riot Games is not the United States. This game is private property of Riot Games exclusively, and they make all the rules by which we abide. As long as what they are doing does not directly violate federal or state law, anything goes. Riot could decide tomorrow that they no longer want to allow their players to suggest anything to them; it's totally within their right to do so.

Anyone here has a right to express to me why they think I'm wrong, but in attempting to censor criticism, Riot is isolating itself from its customer base. This amounts to wanting your customer base to be stupid, non-sentient consumers that stroke your egos and who never challenge you............ all while waiting to receive a paycheck derived from that costumer base.

Why do you feel Riot wants their playerbase to be stupid and not passionate about the game?


While I agree that the idea of encouraging suicide is not a positive thing, I don't feel this particular situation does so. It's a fantasy world where champions have magical powers and infinite respawns, so it's really not applicable to reality.

This particular argument, to me, is a bit like the gaming causes violence issue. A lot of people seem to think that violent video games like Grand Theft Auto make people violent, and use examples like school shooters that happened to play those violent games. It's completely backwards logic, and there is zero correlation whatsoever between the two factors of violent video game consumption and aggressive behavior. I know this isn't exactly what you're referring to, but it's a similar concept.

One other thing to keep in mind; restricting a designer purely based on the fact that a particular choice can potentially be viewed negatively is extraordinarily bad for the industry. The ideas of requiring female characters when it doesn't fit the story or avoiding certain themes like death can be really damaging, and are like a vise grip on developers that want to break the mold.

SecretAgentHulk11/23/2014, 2:55:44 PM4 votes

+1. This is a discussion we should be having.

Cold Justice11/25/2014, 2:15:05 AM4 votes

Damorion, have you seen this poll? I think you should bookmark it and keep track of the data it is generating:

http://generaldiscussions.boards.net/thread/1171/age

The majority of the population haven't graduated high school. Also, anyone that plays this game will naturally assume that they are the largest demographic. It's a common mistake.

Alexander11/25/2014, 11:49:10 PM3 votes

riots writers are imbeciles

more at 11

Orga Itsuka11/25/2014, 6:59:46 PM3 votes

yeah i just wanted to say that when the new leaver buster system board came out i said some stuff about what the "rioter" lyte had said tho the community, i didnt curse or use racial slurs or anything, and i even got some up votes, that was yesterday, i check today and my post had been deleted.. kinda ridiculous that these guys censor just about anything that goes against them.

Fury and Emperor11/23/2014, 12:05:23 PM3 votes

I think it makes perfect sense from Kalista's own point of view. She's the avatar of vengeance and if someone wants to off themselves to seek vengeance, she's fine with it because more vengeance is always better than less vengeance. Perhaps it's not a morality shared by the majority, but that's why the majority is not an avatar of vengeance.

She just stands out because she isn't bowdlerized like Aatrox, but many League characters have dubious morals or at the very least have no issues with killing hundreds with a cheer and smile (and giant lasers). The entire game is about shooting the little girl in the face with a shotgun before she sets you on fire. The difference with Postal or Madworld is that League follows cartoon conventions and therefore beaning people with a sledgehammer or throwing a bomb in their face only humiliates them and doesn't splatter their brains all over the Rift.


So the story doesn't portray suicide as despicable? So what? There was a time when crime in movies had to be punished or else the movie couldn't even be screened, which led to quite a few endings where the criminal swaggers out of the bank with $5 million in untraceable money and walks under a bus. You see, otherwise people might commit crime. These days we have plenty of movies that glorify criminals (and their tuned drag cars) while downplaying the consequences and crime rates have never been lower.

Of course it's easier to hang yourself than to rob a bank with an armada of Mini Coopers. But if you commit suicide expecting a video game character to be waiting for you to help you punish your bullies, then you have serious problems and you were going to commit suicide anyway. Or instead of asking Kalista for revenge, you just might take your dad's gun and do it yourself.

Besides, in the actual game, Kalista kills you and then yoinks you out of the fight to catapult you into Nasus' face against your will and he eats your soul and leaves a few morsels for Thresh to torment for all eternity. If all you take home from any of this is "I want to be Kalista's bitch" then you are getting the wrong message.

Alëk11/23/2014, 11:01:49 PM3 votes

IKR. One of my posts got deleted for posting a meme on some random ragers thread. He pretty much insulted everyone because we sucked or something like that. ( it was a while back so i don't really remember. something generic) I responded and next thing I know my post was deleted for insulting him? I didn't say ANYTHING. I posted a meme that said "damn that nigga salty" LOL.

Sydelle11/26/2014, 1:57:32 AM3 votes

Ant is correct in saying that she's not malicious. Malice is the intent to do harm. Kalista doesn't bear any malice towards anyone. The person who gives their soul to Kalista, however, does have malice and Kalista just does the dirty work. And in the lore, it is the sword-wife that sees Kalista as noble, not Riot Inc. Kalista was a noble warrior in the past. Whether she is still noble or not, that is up to one's own perspective. Plus, there is no indication that the ending of the lore there was happy or not.

But seriously. I've read the lore. You're just making shit up because you really have nothing else better to do in life than get upset over imaginary problems.

@Damorion's previous to last post:

Doing harm is all Kalista does. First thing she does to the sword-wife is give her a spear to kill herself. After that, she's going to go what she spends eternity doing: killing mortal people (not even eternal beings of her own kind, cowardly snake). Apparently, it's her that doesn't have anything better to do. You just called her actions "dirty work," Damor, which implies my message is settling in a non-frontal-cortex part of your brain. And thank God for that.

No, Ant is not correct to say she's not malicious because she required the sword-wife to kill herself and pledge her soul for eternity in order to help her. Noble beings don't ask for your soul anymore than Riot asks a player for their password. [Matthew 7:16]

I think it can easily be understood as a happy ending by the majority of readers because the sword-wife describes Kalista as noble and how she's goin to spend forever together with this "noble warrior."

I'm not making stuff up because I gave you a link to the story. Instead, there you are saying "Kalista doesn't bear any malice towards anyone." Now THAT is making stuff up. Also, I'm no longer upset because I'm being able to have a quality discussion with some of the posters here.

About "Imaginary problems" -- did you read the part where you can't imagine a NOBLE father who rapes his daughter for his own pleasure? What's wrong on Earth is also wrong in imagination. Good and evil are absolute values. So, indeed, I'm talking about Ant's "imaginary problem": you can't "Imagine" that a bad thing (a devil's pact) is "good" in an imaginary world without ALSO thinking that it's good if the exact same thing happened on Earth. Requiring a soul as payment is malicious in Earth and in all worlds: real or imagined.

Sydelle11/26/2014, 2:23:26 AM2 votes

Since you are projecting your own age as everyone else's age (a common online mistake) it beats where you are getting your information from.

A common online mistake is getting your information from a poll that has to be said true of the entire community of LoL. Maybe you should ask Riot to do an age poll.

Statistically speaking, 60 poll voters is better than 1. O.o Riot probably already has data on the age distribution of their clients. They should release it.

Just read the lore since you admit further down your message you haven't read it: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/UTTHinkA-short-stories-kalista-invocation

I've read the lore. I see no problem. Neither me nor Riot are condoning the actions of the sword-wife. It's just a part of the story. Whether you think it's right or wrong, that's up to you. But that doesn't mean you need to go on some pointless rant that blows everything out of proportion.

I read it and I thought it was wrong and I didn't bother anyone about it. Till Ant came to the Boards to tell a few thousand kids that Kalista is "not malicious." Instantly, one understands that Ant sees Kalista in the same way that the sword-wife sees Kalista: "noble." Those are Ant's words in that story. The sword-wife sees Kalista as Ant sees Kalista. If Ant were describing a delusional character, he wouldn't say in a real life Q&A that Kalista is not malicious.

It's lore. It's a story. That piece of lore (I have read) doesn't glorify suicide and satanic pacts as much as you think it does. If you think every person that read the lore thinks, "Boy, suicide and satanic pacts are cool! I'm gonna go do those things!", then you obviously are doing drugs or something.

There's a lot of posters in this thread that are completely confused as to whether the sword-wife committed suicide or sacrifice. That alone proves that the story DID successfully glorify suicide and a satanic pacts. Suicide is never a sacrifice. The person does it for themselves. Heroism is a sacrifice. Heroes die for others to live.

Yawnli11/23/2014, 8:59:07 PM2 votes

but the boards are so much better than gd!

Hawkefire11/23/2014, 9:15:12 PM2 votes

I personally disagree quite strongly with your assessment of Kalista's backstory.

However, that being said, I do understand how you might have come up with that viewpoint.

But in order to truly understand your viewpoint I must present you a hypothetical example:

A general with his men number to about 1000 soldiers faces an insurmountable foe. The general knows that he cannot defeat his foe, but he also knows that no one will escape the battle unless someone takes the stand to defend the retreating soldiers.

The general volunteers himself, and 100 soldiers also volunteer to aid him in the defense. They make a mighty last stand, defending those that fled the battle, but were cut down to the man (not a single one survived). Each man KNEW that he was going to die there, they knew that it was literally suicide to face an enemy as powerful and as numerous as the one that they faced, yet they still did it.

Now then, do you truly consider that suicide? Or do you consider that sacrifice? Or do you consider sacrifice and suicide to be the same? Do you find fault in what the general and his men (all volunteers mind you) did?

I personally find no fault in what they did (in fact, in such an example I would consider them to be HEROES), so I am very interested to hear your viewpoint of it.

Damorion21511/24/2014, 10:19:17 AM2 votes

I can't help but laugh at this.

First off, LoL isn't really a teenage mass. It's mostly comprised of young adults. There is a small percentage of teens, I would believe, that play LoL. Don't be mistake the ESRB rating for the entirety of how old the community is.

Second, even though Riot is a corporate asshole to a fair extent, I don't think it was ever their intent to promote suicide in any form or fashion. Kalista is hardly promotes suicide. Hell, you even see that guy that gets killed in the "Pledge" video offer his soul to Kalista for revenge on his murderer. Plus, Kalista is hardly a demon. She's more of a ghostly spirit that was killed and revived in the Shadow Isles.

I'm sorry, but you are one of those overly too religious people that goes off the deep end on things that aren't even a problem to begin with. I assume you also think things like "all of heavy metal music is of the devil", don't ya? You need to take a chill pill. You need to realize that in the end, if the parents have raised a kid right, then that kid is going to know that suicide is wrong and it shouldn't be done. However, things can happen sometimes. I mean, they know it's just a story and it's not like Kalista (or Riot) is saying, "Hey! If you kill yourself, you can take revenge on your betrayer/enemy!" This is just a story meant for entertainment purposes.

So again, take a chill pill and try not to go off on a silly rant again.

God Bless.

ClueClown11/23/2014, 10:13:09 AM1 votes

I can understand Riot being touchy on the subject with the number of death threats and suicide suggestions players tend to get in games. It's something not to be taken lightly, so they might be worried. Also, with the whole news article on girls attempting to kill people because of their favorite Slender Man creepy pasta, ect, it'd be best to avoid a news article titled "Bullied child commits suicide in pact with fictional character Kalista to exact revenge on schoolmates."

I know it's tough to thing about long term lasting effects, but it's in Riot's best interest to ensure the safety of their players. On top of that, there's a lot of misunderstandings that come along with non-face-to-face communication, so even if you tried to come across one way, it can easily be taken in a whole different way.

A lot of this may sound silly, but it's truly not as far fetched as you may think. I think you hold a noble cause in what you say, but again, what you said may not have come across with the same meaning to others. I lost my best friend to depression and bullying, and I'd do anything to prevent it happening to others as well. I think you hold some right in thinking the lore is wrong, and in this instance I can somewhat agree. I'd prefer the lore works along the lines of how her video played out. The man was already dead and with his dying breath he offered his soul. That plays into the more magical aspect of the shadow isles and its affiliation with souls and death, removing any ties to committing suicide.

Kalista is still a noble being. She doesn't ask people hurt themselves, she seeks only to join with a soul's desire to seek vengeance.