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[Idea] Player Council (Eve Online Style)

Rathlord·7/3/2014, 11:18:23 PM·6 votes·1,753 views

Heya guys,

So I recently commented in this blog article about the design principles of the game: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/features/dev-blog-design-values-league-legends

The important bit of the article I focused on was this last paragraph:

With our values right here in the open, we can have open conversations about how we approach design in League of Legends. Better still, we can be held accountable when we make changes that aren’t in line. If you have any questions, feel free to leave them in the comments, but stay tuned for in-depth articles from senior League of Legends game designers on each core value. We’ll be updating this post as they go live!

My original comment:

On the note of community involvement and the responsibility of devs to be held accountable in competitive games like LoL, would you guys consider starting something like CCP's council of players that has actual intercourses with the developers on a regular basis, in an organized fashion, to represent the playerbase as a whole and our concerns?

This generated a bit of heat, getting some upvotes and comments from not one, but two rednames:

This from Ghostcrawler

I am personally very passionate about any mechanism that improves player and Rioter communication. While I am familiar with the CSM, I'm not immersed enough in EVE itself to know how players evaluate its success.

This from Morello

I like that overall - thought the logistics of "how" are super lost on me. :)

However, I unfortunately didn't notice their comments until about a month later, so I never got back to them.

I wanted to take this opportunity to expand on the idea a bit, get some more focused community feedback, and (hopefully) catch their eye again. If anyone has their contacts, it'd be awesome if they could be directed to this thread- I think this discourse could be great for Riot and the playerbase.

So, to expand on my original comment- for those who don't know, CCP (the makers of Eve Online) have what they call a "council" of players that are elected from the community, that they meet with on a regular basis to discuss the state of the game, needed balance changes, and wanted additions/subtractions from the game.

We could mirror something like this in our community- elect a 'council' of players (preferably all level 30 and having been around and active in the community for a while). Hopefully we could have several different types of representatives; something along the lines of 2 pros, 2 challengers, 2 slots for any ranked players, 2 players who don't play ranked but have still been around a while, and 2 for each of the alternate game modes would be ideal.

Elections could be held at something like 6 month intervals and be very open and public. Every month, Riot could meet up (Skype call?) with the members of the council and each one could bring up a topic/topics that they feel are very important. The minutes of the meeting could be posted afterwords for the public to read.

The importance of this council-like system is huge. It would allow players to feel, more than ever, that Riot is directly listening to their concerns. We could elect people who we feel represent our own concerns and ideas, and through those people we could get direct responses to our questions.

Further, this is good for Riot as well- rather than having only a few staff members to keep track of all of the opinions from the many different player-types, these council members could effectively do that for them, distilling and handling the opinions of smaller portions of the playerbase. Each individual player has more of a chance to be heard by a council member than they would to be heard by an actual Riot team member. This is right in line with Riot's ideals of gathering data meaningfully.

I'm really excited to hear what everyone (both on the Riot team and the player side of things) has to say on this. I'll also mention this: I currently work in game development, but I am looking for a new job as well. I'd love to help Riot out with setting this up.

36 Comments

EMOFRATPARTY7/4/2014, 2:23:03 AM3 votes

I'm also unfamiliar with how EVE's government specifically works, but from the news I've read it seems very efficient. The Tribunal seems like an emulation of their Council on a more micro-managed level, in part, and there are pros and cons to both systems.

GIGANTIC EDIT: It would help if we broke down both systems from a broad level and then built back up from there. Please correct me on any information that may be inaccurate.

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CSM (Council of Stellar Management)

For a primer, please read the Wiki for the CSM.

  • The CSM as a buffer between EVE players and CCP. The most analogous role would be a forum moderator, but with both micro and macro responsibilities.
  • Issues are presented to the CSM, who then meet to discuss issues at a pre-determined time. Said issues are either approved, tabled, rejected, or left to revisit, and the CSM is then given a direct line of communication with CCP devs.
  • All CSM activity is available to the public. The Wiki is incredibly well-organized, and you can read reports for individual cases. It's hard to know what impact the cases have without being an EVE player, but the fact that there's direct communication between CCP and the community is a victory in and of itself.
  • The Council cycles out (unsure of when this happens), and they are currently on their ninth (9th) set of members.
  • No topic is off the table. Issues range from having a focus group centered on accessibility to developers being asked to play the game more.

Overall, it seems like a very fluid conduit between community and developer.

The Tribunal

For a primer, please read the FAQ for The Tribunal.

  • The Tribunal is a collection of LoL players who are of a high enough rank to review the actions of reported players.
  • Such reported players are only brought to the Tribunal after 'x' amount of reports (unsure of the subjectiveness of this system). Reviewers are then able to pardon or punish the player in question; that information is passed onto Player Support, who then deems the proper penalty (if any) for the player.
  • Rule-breaking is left to the discretion of the community and The Tribunal. Likewise, the amount of reports required to be considered for Tribunal trial is subjective.
  • Reviewers are able to skip cases; however, skipping cases counts against a Tribunal member's case limit (currently capped at 2).
  • When the Tribunal is in recess, it means that cases are currently being built for review. Upon having enough cases, The Tribunal will resume activity.

There are obviously significant differences, pros, and cons between the two systems. Below, I'll break those specifics down and propose a solution.

Sir ArmaMalum7/4/2014, 3:24:11 AM3 votes

Overall, love the idea but I can think of a few hurdles to overcome. By no means am I saying these can't be overcome, but simply things to ponder.

#####Experience
Candidate would need an accurate understanding of basic game design and general game knowledge to effectively communicate and discuss issues. You can't just let random people in, you know?

#####Activity
There are so many smart, talented people here. All of which would be awesome candidates, but there has to be a guarantee they can be present for their 'duties'. Honestly, I doubt this will be a problem, but just as a small note they'll probably need to show their passion and commitment.

#####Terms
6 Months sounds like a good area, but I think to better fit LoL we could go with a single season (including pre-season) counting as a 'term'. But there's also the question of consecutive terms. Should there be a limit of some kind to prevent stagnation?

#####Leaks
I'm assuming that these hypothetical candidates will probably get early looks or even early access to future content releases. Sure a simple contract could mitigate the danger, but overall I think it would be better to have an estabalished trust between the candidates and the Rioters.

#####Electoral College

Not a problem, but a personal request. Can we please at least consider having an electoral college system and not a strictly direct democracy voting system here? There are brilliant people in the community, but the community as whole has proven to be very vulnerable to simple sensationalism and falsified facts, I simply do not trust the community (in the perspective of the group not individuals) with decisions like this.

#####Campaigning

slippery slope, we have to avoid any form of campaigning and political promises. The second someone is elected because of what they'll say they'll do instead of what they've already done it's over imho.

#####Vote Cheating

In a playerbase of millions and even a small amount of influence in the most popular game in the world, people will try to cheat. This would be mostly on Riot's end when it comes to hacking and the like, but any logistical cheating like multiple account nominations and buying votes could be planned around possibly.

Idea for a possible election process in reply to this comment, so you can collapse and read easier.

I'm thinking about a possible active system, but I'm tired and will probably go to sleep before I think of a well-rounded one so tell me what you think about the election bit! Also, this is proving to be a very interesting and fun thing to think about I would love to collaborate with you on this if you'd have me :)

Sir ArmaMalum7/4/2014, 3:51:08 AM1 votes

Out of curiosity have you posted this to GD as well? If you have I would love a link so I can see how they're reacting.

Angry Monster7/4/2014, 10:48:57 AM1 votes

Sry but choseing from these forums would be a jk. Their are way to many extreams on all sides.

Populate Groups that should never be part of said Council.
White knights (people that think any thing negative is bad)
GD mains
Constant complainers
Dreamers (people that have no concern about reality or effects of changes on the game)

Each of these groups are bad in their own way.

So i pretty much voided out most of the ""community"". Most of the known personalities on the forums fall under those categories. I personally would never trust any council in general. This is not a MMO where people constantly play with each other and can get to know the players.

Meaningful relationships just do not have a purpose here. We do not choose our team mates but a random machine does. Nor do we play with X summoner again. We move on look for new team mates. There is a bigger limit how many people you can play with in LOL compared to MMOs.

The other problem is that the forums do not represent even 1/10 of online players. How can said group be picked for such a niche community?

SierraOne7/6/2014, 10:06:29 PM1 votes

Hey there! I'm not a huge League player, but it is a really awesome game. What I do play a lot is EVE. And I tell you that their Council system works. Very rarely will you have disgruntled capsuleers rioting against CCP. I mean, there's always that one group of people that complain about everything, and of course you can't please everyone, but the majority of the player base is satisfied, and the gaming experience is pretty good (despite the wallet-draining, bank-breaking evil subscription of DOOM!!! monthly subscription.)

Anyways, I like what's going on here, and you definitely get my upvote.

You need to get Riot onboard with this ASAP, and hash out the details with them.