Reddit style stifles minority opinions

Orenin·8/5/2014, 2:50:35 PM·21 votes·4,487 views

The Reddit board style stifles minority opinions by giving them less visibility. Furthermore, This board makes the problem even worse by not telling you the upvote/downvote counts. So if you have an opinion that 100 people downvote, and 50 people upvote (33% of people agree with you), you just feel like nobody agrees, instead of getting some vindication.

This is something inherit in the Reddit style, that cannot be fixed. And, I believe this is the main issue with why so many people don't like this style. You may have closed the 400+ upvote thread saying we didn't want this style for the boards, but it the fact remains that many people don't like it, or want it. And the people that don't like it will have nowhere to go after this board replaces the original one.

40 Comments

Sir ArmaMalum8/5/2014, 5:38:16 PM11 votes

Good feedback, short sweet and to the point.

I agree that the momentum style voting (more votes-->more vis-->more votes, otherwise known as 'circlejerking' if I'm using the term right) does indeed stifle minority opinions, and minority opinions are something to be encouraged to be heard. But I have a question for you, should minority opinions get visibility just because they're in the minority?

Personally, I'd rather have a system that prioritizes well-thought out ideas, explanations and effort regardless of what side they're on for a topic. I'm not saying that the Board system does this, but it is a step closer than vBulletin imho, because it gives each reader the choice to support the post or not. For me personally, even if I disagree with a post if it is explained well and can admit the OP has a point that can be further discussed I will upvote it, this post being a prime example. I realize that I can't use myself as an accurate representation of how the system will end up being used, but I believe the main problem is with the interpretation of the 'appropriate use' of the voting system and not the system itself. I admit, that may not be a 'fixable' problem, as you said, but I also believe it can have proper merit with the appropriate tweaks instead of a full system overhaul.

Pendragon8/5/2014, 10:42:05 PM9 votes

The Reddit board style stifles minority opinions by giving them less visibility.

The platform we're building here is based on relevance to the reader - and the ability for constructive discussions (generally) to happen. Votes are a factor of relevance right now - but so are other things, (like activity).

You may have closed the 400+ upvote thread saying we didn't want this style for the boards, but it the fact remains that many people don't like it, or want it.

We're using a ton of different mechanisms to help us understand how we make decisions. One of these is listening to that direct feedback, but we also use engagement & usage metrics, surveys, etc. Generally the most prevalent perspective is that the "best" platform has more to do with the content on the platform than the interface.

We believe that we are building a platform that will be better at surfacing relevant content to our players, and the relevant subsequent discussions. The focus here is relevant content, relevant discussion. I don't think it's important that a minority opinion is surfaced - as that a line of discussion that's relevant to the individual player is surfaced. If you're the type of person who really likes to see the minority opinion, we have to make sure that's what you see. There are many more dimensions to relevant than just the vote.

Also... we did not close that discussion, and wouldn't have. The discussion naturally ran its course. If you think it makes sense to revisit the discussion, you're welcome to repost it again but I like to think we've generally done a good job of addressing many player concerns with the work that we've done here.

Overall we appreciate everyone's feedback. We did a pretty major update a month or so ago and we're certainly not done.

ChickenWrap8/5/2014, 3:58:20 PM5 votes

To be honest, so does the old forums. Downvotes = closed thread = stifles minority opinion

Earl Eulrich8/5/2014, 5:31:11 PM4 votes

I kinda agree...there sure are some functions implemented that work against this to happen, but it´s still very unlikely for controversial topics to really rise to the top-visibility. Half the frontpage is always taken by "established" stuff if you go for the default "hot"-sorting - and if you sort it "recent" you have the trouble that topics just disappear after a short-while.

So for a topic to rise in visibility the timing to post it is utmost important with these forum-mechanisms, sth. that get´s posted while forum-activity is low will just decline and there´s no way to get it back up - even if it would be worth further attention.

Daen8/5/2014, 3:52:51 PM3 votes

OK, there are a lot of things to tackle in this post.

The Reddit board style stifles minority opinions by giving them less visibility.

Honestly, I would agree with this if the way threads' visibility is calculated were only based on votes. Comments have an effect on visibility, and in my opinion if someone makes a minority opinion thread where most people don't agree and it doesn't promote discussion, it's not worth being prominently seen.

if you have an opinion that 100 people downvote, and 50 people upvote (33% of people agree with you), you just feel like nobody agrees, instead of getting some vindication.

I think this has been discussed in the past. Having both upvotes and downvotes shown could lower the clarity of the platform, and it's not necessarily useful in discussion. Amalgamating the vote totals into one net number is technically less informative, but arguably the information it doesn't have isn't overly important.

You may have closed the 400+ upvote thread saying we didn't want this style for the boards

You mean this thread? It's still open, and keep in mind it's also six months old. This platform has gone through radical changes since that thread, everything from the color scheme to how moderation is handled.

the people that don't like it will have nowhere to go after this board replaces the original one.

It's been stated numerous times that this platform will never replace the original forums unless there is no one using them and/or it's objectively superior in every possible way. The Boards are a long way from being perfect, so rest easy on that!

Cloud Potato8/5/2014, 2:55:56 PM1 votes

1: Riot has stated that the old forums will not be removed to force people over, that instead they want people to come of their own will (or not come) 2: Just because your opinion has visibility doesn't mean people will agree, care, or feel their circlejerk threatened